673 réponses à ce sujet

[orbit991]

Ariella wrote...

orbit991 wrote...

They should take detail, no more copy pasted textures and environments, make something beautiful that looks real and organic. Motion capture for fighters, real fights not a circus please. Also they should use WItchers pause,instead of pausing the game completely while making choices, things went into slow motion, it keeps you in the game. Finally a branching story where your choices actually make a difference, and not one choice at the end, but a big web of choices that haunt you later and through the game.

One more thing, add Vernon Roche as a companion, thanks

Uh Orbit, point's been made already, they did use Mo cap in DA2.

Yea that 15 foot rogue jump is very realistic as are the paper swords swinging at the speed of sound.

[John Epler]

Marionetten wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Given that you have exactly zero insight into who gets warned and banned, as we try to keep it between the person receiving disciplinary action and the person handing out the action, I'd say you're looking for a bias that doesn't exist. I ban people who need a time out because they can't remain civil, or who have violated the ToS time and time again.

And since I'm not omniscient (nor is this my job - it's a volunteer function I perform on top of my other duties), I rely mostly on users PM'ing me to deal with concerns as they arise. If I don't hear about it, I can't deal with it. And given that I received exactly zero PMs about this particular thread, well, it's no surprise that it went on as long as it did in the fashion that it did. But by all means, imagine it's because we consciously refuse to discipline people who are pro DA2. I'm certain there are a few folks who would vociferously disagree with you.

Are you trying to tell me that some of the most ardent defenders here weren't more deserving of a ban than say v_ware? I've definitely seen a lot of selective moderation and if I were a betting man I'd place good money on Mercer getting the banhammar and Rock slipping away with a warning despite both of them essentially saying the same thing.

I realize that you have limits as a moderator but the trolling does go both ways and I've seen a lot of productive discussions be shut down by the same people time and time again followed by a lock.

Again, I don't discuss the particulars of who gets banned and who doesn't with anyone other than the person being banned. It's no one's business but theirs and ours, and we try to keep it that way.

And I'm well aware that the trolling goes both ways. I've waded into numerous threads and given warnings to DA2 defenders that have crossed the line. I've banned some, warned others. Just like I've done with folks on the other side of the fence. If you honestly feel that there's a bias on these forums, well, I have to strongly disagree with you. Obviously, I enjoy reading posts supporting DA2 more than posts attacking it. That's human nature - it's a project I invested a lot of time and effort into. But I don't let that affect my moderation.

If you violate the ToS, if you're being overly aggressive or hostile or if you're impeding proper and constructive discussion, then yes, you're someone who's likely to be banned or warned. Doesn't matter what side you're arguing. If anything, I've heard arguments that we're -too- lenient about those attacking DA2 in order to avoid the appearance of favouritism. I think we're fairly even-handed, but obviously some people will disagree. Still, I don't think there's any bias one way or the other.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I think a distinction has to be made between "borrowing" and "learning from", tis true. So I'd replace "take" with "learn from". And I think Bioware has a lot to learn from TW2. They have to realize that their quasi-monopoly on good RPGs is strongly challenged and they need to adapt.

If they do, I'd be a happy consumer as that means improved quality all over. Ideally. Problem is however that the short sighted think it's a better idea to cut development costs, rush games and make a quick buck without caring for the long term and quality that much (nor respect for customers). Yea, classical liberalism doesn't work with oligopolies.

[Marionetten]

JohnEpler wrote...

Obviously, I enjoy reading posts supporting DA2 more than posts attacking it. That's human nature - it's a project I invested a lot of time and effort into. But I don't let that affect my moderation.

Just keep in mind that we do it because we love you. I really don't think that most people attacking Dragon Age II has anything against you, Mike or BioWare. It's just the game didn't live up to our lofty expectations given your previous work. Of course, you have the occasional nutcases sending death threats and whatnot but I'd rather not be associated with that lot.

But yeah, a lot of people feel strongly for BioWare as a developer. That is why you're seeing all these reactions.

Modifié par Marionetten, 26 mai 2011 - 07:47 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Lets see what can they learn from one such as Geralt:

A) Make people play a set defined character
Give him a horrible VO the sounds a 13 year old boy pretending to be tough
C) De-value women into simple disposable pleasures/collectible cards.
D) Drrrrrraaaaaaaaaagggggggg your damn plot out so badly that people would rather watch the Director's cut of Alexander a dozen times over then try and slog through your game.

You see!
The Witcher offers such good design choices that Bioware should follow!

[DA2 is Awsum]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Lets see what can they learn from one such as Geralt:

A) Make people play a set defined character
Give him a horrible VO the sounds a 13 year old boy pretending to be tough
C) De-value women into simple disposable pleasures/collectible cards.
D) Drrrrrraaaaaaaaaagggggggg your damn plot out so badly that people would rather watch the Director's cut of Alexander a dozen times over then try and slog through your game.

You see!
The Witcher offers such good design choices that Bioware should follow!

No trolling here right! Right?!

These forums are a trip.

[ipgd]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

And thus, they are the easiet to spot and ignore. So specifying would be more accurate than "people", because that implies everyone or most of them.

Loud, singular trolls are one thing, but it becomes impossible to ignore something so pervasive that it becomes memetic and inserts itself into a position where it is the principle influence on public opinion. This is the sort of thing that leads to the obnoxious Twilight phenomenon where people who have never even read or seen the series (or have, but didn't actually feel strongly about it either way) have instantly polarized, very passionate opinions about it, based solely on the viewpoints of their peers and a fear of being perceived as a "loser" for liking or disliking something socially unacceptable to that group.

(And the fact I have to put a disclaimer here saying "no, I don't actually like Twilight" or there would be a gigantic argument about it is a testament to that.)

It's belittling what many have to say to just "well you don't want to like the game".

Belittling, but also sadly true for many. If you know you aren't one of those people, you have no reason to take personal offense.

[John Epler]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Lets see what can they learn from one such as Geralt:

A) Make people play a set defined character
Give him a horrible VO the sounds a 13 year old boy pretending to be tough
C) De-value women into simple disposable pleasures/collectible cards.
D) Drrrrrraaaaaaaaaagggggggg your damn plot out so badly that people would rather watch the Director's cut of Alexander a dozen times over then try and slog through your game.

You see!
The Witcher offers such good design choices that Bioware should follow!

Yeah. Let's avoid this sort of thing - it's not really going to lead to any constructive discussion.

And let's try to bring this back on topic.

[Master Shiori]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Anyways, what I think DA should take from TW2:
- graphics
- environment being alive and not lifeless.
- attention to detail and actual effort.
- More importantly, choices actually mattering and altering the game quite a bit

What it should keep:
- party based system and the combat system in general (with a few tweaks)
- high quality VA
- facial expressions

What it should throw away:
- waves
- Passive protagonist
- plot structures that they can't do properly and / or put more effort into it.
- the art direction needs work. It's trying to be styllish, but it's not doing it for me.
- the entire marketing team.

I personally want DA to remain DA (and more importantly, with quality) and don't want a The Witcher clone, because I'd rather just play The Witcher.

Well said.

I don't agree on the bolded part since I didn't find Hawke to be passive, but that's just my opinion.

[Oloria]

Nothing please. Let CDPR carry on with TW series as a fixed protaganist, adult content (by which I mean graphic sex scenes, crude language), with challenging combat (or a steep learning curve, if you prefer) to appeal to the hardcore RPG fans and let Bioware carry on with the DA series focusing on customisable PCs and companion based story telling.

IMO, the DA and TW series are as comparable as apples and oranges, and should remain that way for the sake of more choice to the RP gamer. There may be some overlap in the middle where genre fans may enjoy both games for different reasons, but otherwise individuals will weigh the aspects in each series according to their own preferences.

If developers wish to borrow fundamental elements from other games, then personally I think drastic changes are best left for new IPs, and will likely be better received that way. For example, if Bioware decided that fixed protaganist was a route they'd like to try, then I hope they'd do so in a completely new series, and not partway through DA.

[DA2 is Awsum]

Oloria wrote...

If developers wish to borrow fundamental elements from other games, then personally I think drastic changes are best left for new IPs, and will likely be better received that way. For example, if Bioware decided that fixed protaganist was a route they'd like to try, then I hope they'd do so in a completely new series, and not partway through DA.

Doesn't this preclude DA2?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Another thing Bioware could take or try to implement in its own way is mini-games. In fact, they had those in the past. Kotor had pazaak and swoop racing. ME1 had the flux casino. But Origins, DA2 and ME2 didn't have any, IIRC.

I found poker dice, fist fighting and arm wrestling in TW2 to be a fun way to earn some cash and a nice distraction from killing.

So I personally would like some mini-games. Nothing too sophisticated. It might even be a fun way to bond with companions. Imagine inviting all companions to some party (TW1 had that, which I liked), and then have small contests. First of all, it adds more life to the relationship we have with companions without it being solely cinematic. Second, it becomes more of a team activity thing (multilateral) rather than a constant 1 on 1 (bilateral).

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 26 mai 2011 - 08:00 .

[Marionetten]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I think a distinction has to be made between "borrowing" and "learning from", tis true. So I'd replace "take" with "learn from". And I think Bioware has a lot to learn from TW2. They have to realize that their quasi-monopoly on good RPGs is strongly challenged and they need to adapt.

If they do, I'd be a happy consumer as that means improved quality all over. Ideally. Problem is however that the short sighted think it's a better idea to cut development costs, rush games and make a quick buck without caring for the long term and quality that much (nor respect for customers). Yea, classical liberalism doesn't work with oligopolies.

True. They need to put their own spin on things rather than trying to borrow everything. They have a lot of creative people and I'm confident that they can do this as long as EA allows it. Right now I think the most important thing is deciding just what they want to do with the Dragon Age franchise. Do the want an action game or do they want something more in the vein of Baldur's Gate? Dragon Age II came off as a poorly bred mutt in this regard.

Personally, I don't think the action approach is ideal for a party based RPG. To me the whole appeal of a party based RPG lies in controlling the entire party strategically. Implementing this into an action based experience is exceedingly difficult and more often than not the party aspect ends up being secondary to the action. See Mass Effect.

Of course, one could argue that the whole point of the tactics system is to automate your party members so you can focus on fighting like a spartan but that's not something I can personally get behind. In fact, I never used tactics in Dragon Age: Origins or Dragon Age II as I felt it went against the whole point of the game. That and I'm a control freak.

Modifié par Marionetten, 26 mai 2011 - 08:03 .

[ipgd]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

So I personally would like some mini-games. Nothing too sophisticated. It might even be a fun way to bond with companions.

hot coffee for da3

[v_ware]

JohnEpler wrote...

Marionetten wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Given that you have exactly zero insight into who gets warned and banned, as we try to keep it between the person receiving disciplinary action and the person handing out the action, I'd say you're looking for a bias that doesn't exist. I ban people who need a time out because they can't remain civil, or who have violated the ToS time and time again.

And since I'm not omniscient (nor is this my job - it's a volunteer function I perform on top of my other duties), I rely mostly on users PM'ing me to deal with concerns as they arise. If I don't hear about it, I can't deal with it. And given that I received exactly zero PMs about this particular thread, well, it's no surprise that it went on as long as it did in the fashion that it did. But by all means, imagine it's because we consciously refuse to discipline people who are pro DA2. I'm certain there are a few folks who would vociferously disagree with you.

Are you trying to tell me that some of the most ardent defenders here weren't more deserving of a ban than say v_ware? I've definitely seen a lot of selective moderation and if I were a betting man I'd place good money on Mercer getting the banhammar and Rock slipping away with a warning despite both of them essentially saying the same thing.

I realize that you have limits as a moderator but the trolling does go both ways and I've seen a lot of productive discussions be shut down by the same people time and time again followed by a lock.

Again, I don't discuss the particulars of who gets banned and who doesn't with anyone other than the person being banned. It's no one's business but theirs and ours, and we try to keep it that way.

And I'm well aware that the trolling goes both ways. I've waded into numerous threads and given warnings to DA2 defenders that have crossed the line. I've banned some, warned others. Just like I've done with folks on the other side of the fence. If you honestly feel that there's a bias on these forums, well, I have to strongly disagree with you. Obviously, I enjoy reading posts supporting DA2 more than posts attacking it. That's human nature - it's a project I invested a lot of time and effort into. But I don't let that affect my moderation.

If you violate the ToS, if you're being overly aggressive or hostile or if you're impeding proper and constructive discussion, then yes, you're someone who's likely to be banned or warned. Doesn't matter what side you're arguing. If anything, I've heard arguments that we're -too- lenient about those attacking DA2 in order to avoid the appearance of favouritism. I think we're fairly even-handed, but obviously some people will disagree. Still, I don't think there's any bias one way or the other.

Hey my name came up

And I was reported. If that hadn't happened I don't think I would have been banned by any moderator. A warning yes, but no ban.

Get your facts straight.

Modifié par v_ware, 26 mai 2011 - 08:07 .

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
So I personally would like some mini-games. Nothing too sophisticated. It might even be a fun way to bond with companions. Imagine inviting all companions to some party (TW1 had that, which I liked), and then have small contests. First of all, it adds more life to the relationship we have with companions without it being solely cinematic. Second, it becomes more of a team activity thing (multilateral) rather than a constant 1 on 1 (bilateral).

As long as they're optional, and I personally think RPG's should be light on puzzles of all kinds.  Some minigames are fun.  I like both of ME2's simple minigames, and was strangely mesmerized by the dice game in TW1, but others are maddening.

[axl99]

Visually, Witcher 2 is practically the Crysis of the RPG genre.

If users have to turn on depth of field just to reduce the amount of busy but pretty visual clutter? CDProjekt is doing it wrong if they can't optimize their game engine to put out consistent graphics even on the lowest quality setting. The extra graphic perks should be icing on the cake. Not the cake itself.

Good luck with them optimizing their game for consoles. They've got some good coders on their side, but the guys in charge are giving them a crapload to do.

Modifié par axl99, 26 mai 2011 - 08:11 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Marionetten wrote...
Personally, I don't think the action approach is ideal for a party based RPG. To me the whole appeal of a party based RPG lies in controlling the entire party strategically. Implementing this into an action based experience is exceedingly difficult and more often than not the party aspect ends up being secondary to the action. See Mass Effect.

Same and that's why I'd also advocate keeping the distinct class system. Yes, TW2 offered mroe flexibility in terms of abilities when it came to Geralt as he wasn't confined to one class. But on the otherhand, DA offers flexibility in the team make up. Both systems are fun for me.

And yep, I'm a control freak too.

ipgd wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

So I
personally would like some mini-games. Nothing too sophisticated. It
might even be a fun way to bond with companions.

hot coffee for da3

Yea, not screwing up the proportion of milk would be a challenging fun mini-game.

[Marionetten]

Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
So I personally would like some mini-games. Nothing too sophisticated. It might even be a fun way to bond with companions. Imagine inviting all companions to some party (TW1 had that, which I liked), and then have small contests. First of all, it adds more life to the relationship we have with companions without it being solely cinematic. Second, it becomes more of a team activity thing (multilateral) rather than a constant 1 on 1 (bilateral).

As long as they're optional, and I personally think RPG's should be light on puzzles of all kinds.  Some minigames are fun.  I like both of ME2's simple minigames, and was strangely mesmerized by the dice game in TW1, but others are maddening.

Dragon Age II could have definitely used an optional minigame like dice poker for money making purposes. Gamlen would have been the ideal NPC for it, too. Having the Black Emporium is downright maddening with how tight money is.

axl99 wrote...

Good luck with them optimizing their game for consoles. They've got some good coders on their side, but the guys in charge are giving them a crapload to do.

It scales pretty nicely though. I suspect that the console versions will be running on low which still looks fairly gorgeous by RPG standards. Here's a comparison.

Modifié par Marionetten, 26 mai 2011 - 08:14 .

[ipgd]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

ipgd wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

So I personally would like some mini-games. Nothing too sophisticated. It might even be a fun way to bond with companions.

hot coffee for da3

May I ask what "hot coffee" is?

Something I probably can't describe without violating the ToS.

Thankfully, there's Google.

[DetailedSubset]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Lets see what can they learn from one such as Geralt:

A) Make people play a set defined character
Give him a horrible VO the sounds a 13 year old boy pretending to be tough
C) De-value women into simple disposable pleasures/collectible cards.
D) Drrrrrraaaaaaaaaagggggggg your damn plot out so badly that people would rather watch the Director's cut of Alexander a dozen times over then try and slog through your game.

You see!
The Witcher offers such good design choices that Bioware should follow!

I love the Alexander Directors Cut, of course I cant watch it all in one sitting but it's still one of my favorites.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
So I personally would like some mini-games. Nothing too sophisticated. It might even be a fun way to bond with companions. Imagine inviting all companions to some party (TW1 had that, which I liked), and then have small contests. First of all, it adds more life to the relationship we have with companions without it being solely cinematic. Second, it becomes more of a team activity thing (multilateral) rather than a constant 1 on 1 (bilateral).

As long as they're optional, and I personally think RPG's should be light on puzzles of all kinds.  Some minigames are fun.  I like both of ME2's simple minigames, and was strangely mesmerized by the dice game in TW1, but others are maddening.

Oh right shooting the rylocks thing in ME2, now I remember. What else did it have?
Well yea they should be optional.

And I prefer as much puzzles as possible. TW2 had some but they were not hard enough. Kotor had several. Some were just interrogations, but they were loads of fun. Some were complicated mathematics, which I remember loving. 

[tallon1982]

Wait wasn't scanning and launching probes for ore a mini game in ME2?