673 réponses à ce sujet

[TheStrand221]

Ringo12 wrote...

Dude, you type well for drunk.

Practice makes perfect.

[RangerSG]

TheStrand221 wrote...

Dude, you don't really have to prove yourself to me. I've already admitted I'm drunk and trolling you.

I mean, jeez, I get what you're saying I just disagree and genuinely think you're in the minority on this issue. I think there are other factors that supersede your argument, and that a certain amount of particular anachronisms are necessary for something immersive and relevant to the player, to say nothing of how anachronistic a game outside of any real historical time can be. You don't think you're statements here come off a little strong and unreasonable when it comes to what is "proper"? You don't think it's arrogant to end a post "end of story"?
Cheers.

My apology for missing the part where you said you were messing around. Yes, I'm making the point strongly, but because I think it's a problem area in the genre as a whole. I do concede there are places when anachronism is necesssary; the last rule of the writer is, "Know when the story tells you to break all the rules." But I think you'd agree there's a difference between that periodic moment of "Where did this come from!" and a generic laziness that stems from not doing research.

Now I also concede games are less literary, obviously, than writing. But still, I think it fair to say leave the rule-breaking for the moment when it has maximum impact.

[TheStrand221]

Fair enough. I apologize for having a bit of fun at your expense if it caused you any distress, which I doubt it did. It was nothing personal; I like to pick fights to an extent in real life too.

I mean, if you can't argue with over the top passions, absolute certitude, or just plain for the fun of it on the internet, where can you?

[RangerSG]

TheStrand221 wrote...

Fair enough. I apologize for having a bit of fun at your expense if it caused you any distress, which I doubt it did. It was nothing personal; I like to pick fights to an extent in real life too.

I mean, if you can't argue with over the top passions, absolute certitude, or just plain for the fun of it on the internet, where can you?

Me, argue on the internet? Never. :innocent:

Now where's a Sam Adams when I need one? Well, a Fat Tire would be better....

[TheStrand221]

Fat Tire is awesome. I haven't had one for years though, since I lived in Cali. Sierra Nevada is my constant companion, however.

[Chromie]

 They should improve with the retail purchase 

[RangerSG]

Ringo12 wrote...

 They should improve with the retail purchase 

No argument there. Certain developers get this right. Stardock and Paradox Interactive are 2 others I respect for their full-fledged support of fans who use their discretionary funds on gaming. But this is an issue with the parent company and their "give us a game every year" philosophy.

[TheStrand221]

I have the GoG digital download version. *hangs head in shame*

[Chromie]

RangerSG wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

 They should improve with the retail purchase 

No argument there. Certain developers get this right. Stardock and Paradox Interactive are 2 others I respect for their full-fledged support of fans who use their discretionary funds on gaming. But this is an issue with the parent company and their "give us a game every year" philosophy.

I understand that and it's a shame and also I really hate preorder dlc bonuses. Witcher 2 had it also but it's been given to the everyone with the patch now so that's something I'd like to see with Bioware games. 


http://www.gram.pl/u...0516122543.jpg] This would be great to[/url]  

Modifié par Ringo12, 27 mai 2011 - 03:15 .

[Realmzmaster]

Ringo12 wrote...

RangerSG wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

 They should improve with the retail purchase 

No argument there. Certain developers get this right. Stardock and Paradox Interactive are 2 others I respect for their full-fledged support of fans who use their discretionary funds on gaming. But this is an issue with the parent company and their "give us a game every year" philosophy.

I understand that and it's a shame and also I really hate preorder dlc bonuses. Witcher 2 had it also but it's been given to the everyone with the patch now so that's something I'd like to see with Bioware games. 


http://www.gram.pl/u...0516122543.jpg] This would be great to[/url]  

I use to think all that stuff included in the box was cool until I figure out 90% of it I never used. Actually the old Infocom games (text adventures)  incorporated the "feelies" (that is what they were called ") into the actual game. So you had to have them to complete the game. Most modern games the stuff is nice but unnecessary since it adds to the cost of the retail package.
The problem I have it when the retail package and the online download are the same price and the retail package contains all the feelies that makes no sense!

edited for spelling

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 27 mai 2011 - 06:04 .

[Gotholhorakh]

RangerSG wrote...
Now I also concede games are less literary, obviously, than writing. But still, I think it fair to say leave the rule-breaking for the moment when it has maximum impact.

It's a rule you've made up arbitrarily.

Don't be surprised if the world of writing at large "breaks" it.

Firstly, there is arguably no rigidly restricted analogous time period to this fantasy environment, and if there were, well from the most superficial and cursory look we can see central aspects of the game and its writing that span a good one or two thousand years of human history, if not more.

Secondly, how is it that people can see a context with vernacular appropriate to 20th and 21st century Great Britain/USA, watch the characters use that modern, contemporary sentence structure, pronunciation, accents, vocabulary, etc. for every piece of dialogue in the games..

..and then think that calling inherited characteristics (which have been known about for many thousands of years) "genes" is this tiny ****** in the armour of its medieval consistency?

Preposterous.

There are lots of popular and widely regarded examples of fantasy literature that completely ignore the notion of an "analogous time period in known human history rule".

Quite rightly too, because it's complete and utter hokum. There is no such "rule".

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 27 mai 2011 - 06:44 .

[Siegdrifa]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

RangerSG wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

 They should improve with the retail purchase 

No argument there. Certain developers get this right. Stardock and Paradox Interactive are 2 others I respect for their full-fledged support of fans who use their discretionary funds on gaming. But this is an issue with the parent company and their "give us a game every year" philosophy.

I understand that and it's a shame and also I really hate preorder dlc bonuses. Witcher 2 had it also but it's been given to the everyone with the patch now so that's something I'd like to see with Bioware games. 


http://www.gram.pl/u...0516122543.jpg] This would be great to[/url]  

I use to think all that stuff included in the box was cool until I figure out 90% of it I never used. Actually the old Infocom games (text adventures)  incorporated the "feelies" (that is what they were called ") into the actual game. So you had to have them to complete the game. Most modern games the stuff is nice but unnecessary since it adds to the cost of the retail package.
The problem I have it when the retail package and the online download are the same price and the retail package contains all the feelies that makes no sense!

edited for spelling

When it actualy don't add to the cost, such as TW2, i don't see the problem, it's free stuff, i don't minde if it is not usefull, it will stay inside the box, but i appreciat that they offer some good looking things to make their game more unique.

[Realmzmaster]

Siegdrifa wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

RangerSG wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

 They should improve with the retail purchase 

No argument there. Certain developers get this right. Stardock and Paradox Interactive are 2 others I respect for their full-fledged support of fans who use their discretionary funds on gaming. But this is an issue with the parent company and their "give us a game every year" philosophy.

I understand that and it's a shame and also I really hate preorder dlc bonuses. Witcher 2 had it also but it's been given to the everyone with the patch now so that's something I'd like to see with Bioware games. 


http://www.gram.pl/u...0516122543.jpg] This would be great to[/url]  

I use to think all that stuff included in the box was cool until I figure out 90% of it I never used. Actually the old Infocom games (text adventures)  incorporated the "feelies" (that is what they were called ") into the actual game. So you had to have them to complete the game. Most modern games the stuff is nice but unnecessary since it adds to the cost of the retail package.
The problem I have it when the retail package and the online download are the same price and the retail package contains all the feelies that makes no sense!

edited for spelling

When it actualy don't add to the cost, such as TW2, i don't see the problem, it's free stuff, i don't minde if it is not usefull, it will stay inside the box, but i appreciat that they offer some good looking things to make their game more unique.

You really think none of those feelies was not factored into the retail price? The only way for CDProjeckt or Atari to absorb the cost is to lower their profit margin expectations.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 27 mai 2011 - 09:57 .

[Merced652]

Marionetten wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Given that you have exactly zero insight into who gets warned and banned, as we try to keep it between the person receiving disciplinary action and the person handing out the action, I'd say you're looking for a bias that doesn't exist. I ban people who need a time out because they can't remain civil, or who have violated the ToS time and time again.

And since I'm not omniscient (nor is this my job - it's a volunteer function I perform on top of my other duties), I rely mostly on users PM'ing me to deal with concerns as they arise. If I don't hear about it, I can't deal with it. And given that I received exactly zero PMs about this particular thread, well, it's no surprise that it went on as long as it did in the fashion that it did. But by all means, imagine it's because we consciously refuse to discipline people who are pro DA2. I'm certain there are a few folks who would vociferously disagree with you.

Are you trying to tell me that some of the most ardent defenders here weren't more deserving of a ban than say v_ware? I've definitely seen a lot of selective moderation and if I were a betting man I'd place good money on Mercer getting the banhammar and Rock slipping away with a warning despite both of them essentially saying the same thing.

I realize that you have limits as a moderator but the trolling does go both ways and I've seen a lot of productive discussions be shut down by the same people time and time again followed by a lock. I think the key problem here is how easily one person can troll a thread into oblivion and subsequently get it shut down. Now that probably is what irks me the most. You basically end up giving the troll exactly what he wants instead of just purging him from existence.

But I digress, it's true that I do not have perfect insight and I'm only commenting from the lowly perspective of yet another BSN peasant. If I'm totally mistaken then feel free to ignore the critique. I trust that you guys are as keen as everyone else to get this forum back on track. Unfortunately, that is going to require drastic measures.

lets go to vegas! 

[RangerSG]

Gotholhorakh wrote...

RangerSG wrote...
Now I also concede games are less literary, obviously, than writing. But still, I think it fair to say leave the rule-breaking for the moment when it has maximum impact.

It's a rule you've made up arbitrarily.

Don't be surprised if the world of writing at large "breaks" it.

Firstly, there is arguably no rigidly restricted analogous time period to this fantasy environment, and if there were, well from the most superficial and cursory look we can see central aspects of the game and its writing that span a good one or two thousand years of human history, if not more.

Secondly, how is it that people can see a context with vernacular appropriate to 20th and 21st century Great Britain/USA, watch the characters use that modern, contemporary sentence structure, pronunciation, accents, vocabulary, etc. for every piece of dialogue in the games..

..and then think that calling inherited characteristics (which have been known about for many thousands of years) "genes" is this tiny ****** in the armour of its medieval consistency?

Preposterous.

There are lots of popular and widely regarded examples of fantasy literature that completely ignore the notion of an "analogous time period in known human history rule".

Quite rightly too, because it's complete and utter hokum. There is no such "rule".

Actually, there is such a rule. I've worked with more than one editor who calls out modern terms as inappropriate or at least expects a justification when they're used.

If you have a society where you've elevated the tech or emulated it with magic in one particular area, it's not 'preposterous,' it's alternate history (or what they call "wanking"). Usually it's done as a way to examine how that change would warp the larger society. That's entirely different than simply dropping in modern vernacular because you're too undisciplined to examine what the proper term in the context would be.

Believable world-building necessitates, in no small part, choices in language that fit the culture and analogues one has built into the society. It's no more fitting to drop in modern terms into a High Renaissance fantasy, for instance, than it is to drop Western culture into an Asian setting. Verisimiltude is indeed a requirement for any fantasy society.

[Addai]

RangerSG wrote...

As far as "mature language" goes, honestly I find nothing "immersive" about profanity that doesn't fit the period/setting. This is a knock against a LOT of fantasy, IMHO. Until well after the Victorian era, the most powerful curses were blasphemy, not feces/fornication related. It's quite honestly sloppy and off-putting to me to find MODERN curses included in such a setting. I thought the inclusion of "Flames!" in DA2, for instance, a very appropriate curse. I realize some people might think that's mild. But that's because they don't think about the sacrilige in the statement.  Profanity and mature subject matter should fit the setting, not be a tool of cheap laughs.

I'd go as far as saying USING modern curses in fantasy settings is the juvenile choice.

Not sure how you state this so authoritatively, since profanity is not something that appears often in written records and a great deal of medieval record came from churchmen.  I know it's a theory, but I don't buy it.  Romans used feces and sex for their curses, for instance, and I'd be surprised if other early societies didn't do the same, and that these were not still in common usage despite the "Christianification" of cursing.

I also don't find it particularly "immersive" to have a Christian mindset imposed on fantasy worlds that don't have that cosmology.  That's jarring in a different way.  It's also odd to expect something translated from Polish to use coined English phrases.  Really just much easier to use the common analogs- and to not be so anal. 

Modifié par Addai67, 28 mai 2011 - 03:18 .

[Carrok7]

Many of "TW2" in game features as they possibly can, such as the graphics, mature language, mature content, and, mini-games ideas.

[RangerSG]

Addai67 wrote...

RangerSG wrote...

As far as "mature language" goes, honestly I find nothing "immersive" about profanity that doesn't fit the period/setting. This is a knock against a LOT of fantasy, IMHO. Until well after the Victorian era, the most powerful curses were blasphemy, not feces/fornication related. It's quite honestly sloppy and off-putting to me to find MODERN curses included in such a setting. I thought the inclusion of "Flames!" in DA2, for instance, a very appropriate curse. I realize some people might think that's mild. But that's because they don't think about the sacrilige in the statement.  Profanity and mature subject matter should fit the setting, not be a tool of cheap laughs.

I'd go as far as saying USING modern curses in fantasy settings is the juvenile choice.

Not sure how you state this so authoritatively, since profanity is not something that appears often in written records and a great deal of medieval record came from churchmen.  I know it's a theory, but I don't buy it.  Romans used feces and sex for their curses, for instance, and I'd be surprised if other early societies didn't do the same, and that these were not still in common usage despite the "Christianification" of cursing.

I also don't find it particularly "immersive" to have a Christian mindset imposed on fantasy worlds that don't have that cosmology.  That's jarring in a different way.  It's also odd to expect something translated from Polish to use coined English phrases.  Really just much easier to use the common analogs- and to not be so anal. 

I didn't say use "Christian" ones either. The Romans actually used blasphemy far more often as well, and the Greeks almost exclusively. It's not a 'theory,' it's what's in the literature and written records. In fact, I repeatedly said adapt them to the culture constructed, which is why I said "Flames" works well in the context of the DA universe. I realize that in a culture that's demeaned the transcendent, blasphemy doesn't mean as much to people. But in one that has not, imprecations carry far more weight than any mundane reference to bodily activities.

[craigdolphin]

I have to say, playing the first few hours of TW2 was like balm to my soul after the far-from-satisifying experience with DA2.

Granted, TW2 has a fixed protagonist, but the world itself feels alive. There's dirt in the forests. And rubble in the caves. There's a butcher gutting a pig carcass outside his shop. And people seem to be going about their lives. And when people have sex, they are actually naked. And when folks cuss, they actually use 'bad' words. When a dragon swoops, people run away screaming. When it rains, people take shelter!!!!

Aside from restoring a conversation system that allows the PC to initiate conversations with the NPCs, that feeling of a world that lives and breathes and farts and laughs and builds and schemes and repairs and eats and pees...THAT's most what I want Bioware to learn from CDPR. Make it the dark, gritty fantasy that DAO was billed as, once more.

And yes, both the art style and graphical quality of TW2 are both simply stunning IMO. I would love to see Bioware attempt to actually match it: but given that would entail undoing the 'new' art style, and would require they use a more modern engine, I don't see it happening.

[Drowsy0106]

culletron1 wrote...

CDProjekt has stated that Bioware games have been an inspiration and you can see they lifted a lot of Bioware elements and put them into their witcher games...

So now that they have pushed the envelope a little bit with TW2 what elements do guys you think Bioware can take from the Witcher2 and add into their own games??


For instance I would love to see
The day/night cycles from TW2
The life cycles of the NPCs (who always seem to be doing something)
The more mature language
The gfx (obviously)

What would you like to see?

A different publisher, one that cares about the product the studio delivers and the people playing it. EA is beyond ploughing awful.

[Chromie]

craigdolphin wrote... and would require they use a more modern engine, I don't see it happening.

Makes me a sad panda.

[MikeP999]

culletron1 wrote...

CDProjekt has stated that Bioware games have been an inspiration and you can see they lifted a lot of Bioware elements and put them into their witcher games...

So now that they have pushed the envelope a little bit with TW2 what elements do guys you think Bioware can take from the Witcher2 and add into their own games??


For instance I would love to see 

• The day/night cycles from TW2
• The life cycles of the NPCs (who always seem to be doing something)
• The more mature language
• The gfx (obviously) 

What would you like to see?

All goood points.  I'll add to this: musical score, and voice talent.  The choice of music and wilderness tracks are simply stunning in Witcher 2.  I also enjoy the acting quality more so in Witcher 2.  Regarding graphics, I wouldn't be too quick to judge DA2, it will certainly be playable on a wider range of systems than Witcher 2, which in my opinion underestimated the 'recommended' graphic settings.  There are a boat load of graphic options to play with though, so most pc systems should find some setting that is tweakable to their liking.

DA2, I enjoy the combat and inventory management more - leave as is.  I enjoy the combat somewhat in Witcher 2, but not as much.

As a new game, Witcher 2 is still suffering from glitches, i.e. crossfire issues and graphical anomolies [i.e. stuttering/jerky movement].  Once drivers mature and another patch is put out, hopefully these issues will be eliminated.  Nothing unusual for a new game though.

[Chromie]

MikeP999 wrote...
Regarding graphics, I wouldn't be too quick to judge DA2, it will certainly be playable on a wider range of systems than Witcher 2.

On low the game is still good to look at and more people can run it. Witcher 2 is scalable.

[Dariuszp]

And that graphic is stuning.

[suunio]

bioware's should give us the free DLCs items without going through all the hoops.
ex:
1. signing up to facebook to play DA legends just to get the items unlocked
2. going to penny arcade for the belt
3. buying clothes from their EA stores to get the free item unlocked