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What elements should bioware take from TW2


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#201
Elhanan

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Old Chinese restaurant proverb  - Yeast is yeast, and nest is nest; never the main shall tweet! Image IPB

#202
Dominator24

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Realmzmaster wrote...

Luvinn wrote...

Fix1o0 wrote...

How hard is it to understand that casual in The Witcher 2 doesn't take olympic level?


At a certain point in TW2 you become so overpowered compare to the enemies too. At the beginning it can be hard, but if you make use of alchemy, bombs and traps its fairly simple on easy difficulty. I go the swordsman path, and once you get the aoe effect strikes (name of talent escapes me at the time), the major complaint is that the combat gets too easy.


But you have to get to that point. If you are so frustrated with the game you may never reach that point. The game ends up on the shelf and off the hard drive. Which is why many games include tutorials and/or have an easy difficulty level that is truly easy. Then once you get the hang of it you can increase the level if so desired.


Learn, adapt or die. Sorry but if you can't learn from you mistakes then you will die.
The hardest fight I had was with second boss Letho, and first time he killed me in less then 10sek !?. But I didn't quit, I died and died and then some more death, it was a good training ground. In the end when I finally got the hang of his moves and my combo chains I did a perfect 100% hp fight. What I did to win? start with aartd  then 3 hit fast/strong/strong roll off, grenade> aard (or go in close and block/counter)........... and so on.
Is it hard at first?? sure, but it really forces you to learn and adapt to situations quickly or you will end dead, time after time, till you eventually learn something form it :)

Modifié par Dominator24, 26 mai 2011 - 12:00 .


#203
Ariella

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Dominator24 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Luvinn wrote...

Fix1o0 wrote...

How hard is it to understand that casual in The Witcher 2 doesn't take olympic level?


At a certain point in TW2 you become so overpowered compare to the enemies too. At the beginning it can be hard, but if you make use of alchemy, bombs and traps its fairly simple on easy difficulty. I go the swordsman path, and once you get the aoe effect strikes (name of talent escapes me at the time), the major complaint is that the combat gets too easy.


But you have to get to that point. If you are so frustrated with the game you may never reach that point. The game ends up on the shelf and off the hard drive. Which is why many games include tutorials and/or have an easy difficulty level that is truly easy. Then once you get the hang of it you can increase the level if so desired.


Learn, adapt or die. Sorry but if you can't learn from you mistakes then you will die.
The hardest fight I had was with second boss Letho, and first time he killed me in less then 10sek !?. But I didn't quit, I died and died and then some more death, it was a good training ground. In the end when I finally got the hang of his moves and my combo chains I did a perfect 100% hp fight. What I did to win? start with aartd  then 3 hit fast/strong/strong roll off, grenade> aard (or go in close and block/counter)........... and so on.
Is it hard at first?? sure, but it really forces you to learn and adapt to situations quickly or you will end dead, time after time, till you eventually learn something form it :)


Dude, get over yourself, it's a game not a war, and if someone spends 50 bucks on a game they should be able to enjoy it.

Elements that should not be taken from TW2:
Boxing
Armwrestling

Even the minigames in Fable 2 were better than this, and made more sense.

#204
Addai

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I don't care, I just hope that seeing "but the Witcher 2...!" in every single thread has about run its course.

#205
Icinix

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In Exile wrote...

Icinix wrote...
Living world. Get people off of those walls they've been leaning on for ten years, get them involved if there is a fight, make them do STUFF. Its really, REALLY, starting to bother me playing BioWare games with the number of NPCs around that are no more than furniture.


Bioware's never designe anything like this. It would mean that the entire studio has to change. You'd need programmers, designers... everything about Bioware production wise would have to be very different for it to work.


Actually all they would need to do is get the person who sets a few guards patrol paths around Kirkwall to drop and copy a few more and then do the same with NPC's.  The animations already exist, the triggers already exist, it would just be marrying them off to the NPC's.

It wouldn't take that much to work. And although I am aware its never been one of BioWares strong points, there was less static npc's in places like Taris in KOTOR1 - a game that is getting quite long in the tooth.

Just about every other game on the market can do it, why not BioWare?

#206
SirGladiator

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I think the main things that Bioware should take from TW2 are the amazing graphics, super deep storyline, extremely impactful choices, awesome love scenes, and the 'alive' feeling of the characters. I hope Bioware continues to avoid the bad language, there's nothing fun or cool about all that bad language that TW2 has. I did like the mini-games, especially the poker one, but the poker one was WAY more fun in the original TW, to me at least. Cool mini-games make a good game great.

I never thought TW2 would be better than DA2, but now that it is it's just important to learn from it so DA3 can be better than TW3, and restore things to the way they should've been all along :) .

#207
In Exile

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Icinix wrote...
Actually all they would need to do is get the person who sets a few guards patrol paths around Kirkwall to drop and copy a few more and then do the same with NPC's.  The animations already exist, the triggers already exist, it would just be marrying them off to the NPC's.

It wouldn't take that much to work. And although I am aware its never been one of BioWares strong points, there was less static npc's in places like Taris in KOTOR1 - a game that is getting quite long in the tooth.

Just about every other game on the market can do it, why not BioWare?


NPCs seem to do much more than just walk around. There's ambient dialogue, entering homes and seeing them sleep, etc. There's collision detection (walking into NPCs can't be like walking into a wall; when you see Enzio in ACII push aside pedestrians, it makes them feel like real people).

I'm too inattentive to actually notice any of these living world features, so I don't know what they are, but if a company like Bestheda designs an entire AI from the ground up to execute these behaviours, doesn't that suggest that it's a rather complex endeavour?

#208
In Exile

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Okay, one thing Bioware should never use is the fake searing like plough. If I hear the word plough one more time I will rip out my ears.

#209
Sanunes

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Can someone explain why better graphics would make Dragon Age 2 better? I understand most of the other complaints, but I have never understood that one argument for there is only so much time for development and something normally gets sacrificed, for what would you really prefer less repeated areas at a lower graphical quality or less areas and they are reused, but they are at what you want for graphics.

Personally I would choose having fifteen to twenty unique areas instead of three to four that are reused just because they look better. Now if a game takes six years to develop they could do both, but then I think after that much time people would still complain that the graphics aren't at the current level, for graphic levels would have improved and gotten better.

Modifié par Sanunes, 26 mai 2011 - 04:21 .


#210
Zanallen

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Dragon Age 2 had 28 unique maps.

#211
neppakyo

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Addai67 wrote...

I don't care, I just hope that seeing "but the Witcher 2...!" in every single thread has about run its course.


But the witcher 2.. 

:innocent:

#212
Serpieri Nei

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neppakyo wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

I don't care, I just hope that seeing "but the Witcher 2...!" in every single thread has about run its course.


But the witcher 2.. 

:innocent:


is a masterpeice that deserves all the praise it can get Image IPB

#213
In Exile

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It's buggy. I just got a gamebreaking bug. Geralt can't level up. And it seems to generalize across multiple saves. I've never had a gamebreaking bug in a Bioware game.

ETA:

And before someone asks, no, this isn't the too stupid to use the difficutly level right one.

Modifié par In Exile, 26 mai 2011 - 05:11 .


#214
Rockpopple

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There's stuff they can take from every RPG that's ever been released, even the crappy ones.

There's stuff they can take from TW2, there's stuff they can take from Alpha Protocol, there'll be stuff they can take from Deus Ex and Skyrim and Final Fantasy Versus XIII and who knows whatever else. There's stuff they can take from Dragon Age 2 and Dragon Age: Origins, hell, there's stuff they can take from Dragon Age: Legends.

Bottom line though: whatever they do, they need to execute it well. Extraordinarily well. They can't leave anything half-assed. I think they realise now how utterly unforgiving people are, so they better put some elbow-grease into every element they use.

#215
Serpieri Nei

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In Exile wrote...

It's buggy. I just got a gamebreaking bug. Geralt can't level up. And it seems to generalize across multiple saves. I've never had a gamebreaking bug in a Bioware game.


Funny, lots of us had game breaking bugs in DA2. - Where we were forced to find an uncorrupted save or start from scratch.

#216
In Exile

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Serpieri Nei wrote...
Funny, lots of us had game breaking bugs in DA2. - Where we were forced to find an uncorrupted save or start from scratch.


Yeah, I recognize my post was off-topic and irrelevant. I was just browsing this thread & the TW2 thread when I hit the bug and it just really, really aggravated me.

#217
DragonRageGT

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Something that makes the biggest DA2 fan goes like this, deserves some attention: (mind you that I enjoyed DA2 too, just not nearly as much as Origins or TW2)

Persephone wrote...

Alright.....just finished playthrough Nr. 2, siding with Iorveth and doing quite a few things differently......
...
I was entirely blown away the first time. This time I'm completely awestruck. FANTASTIC game. I cannot wait for more content. :wub::wub::wub:



- Remove any EA influence from the creative process (and anyone who can't admitt the flaws of DA2 too - Denial is a serious symptom of a disease as well as Egocentrism) and Console plataform as base for the development
- Let PC RPGamers who love PC RPG's make the best PC RPG game they can and then make a great port for Console plataform (TW2 is coming for consoles too. You all that play consoles will have the chance to be witchered!)
- Give the game development/creation team time so they can give the same dedication to every aspect of the game as DA:Origins have received, as TW1 and TW2 have received.
- Keep the good things done in DA2 and get rid of the bad! (yeah, there are some good things in DA2)
- Keep a really good team ready to release as many patches as necessary, including an overhaul Enhanced Edition if needed, for free!
- Make it a dark and mature game when advertising it as a dark and mature RPG.
- Freebies!

#218
DragonRageGT

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In Exile wrote...

It's buggy. I just got a gamebreaking bug. Geralt can't level up. And it seems to generalize across multiple saves. I've never had a gamebreaking bug in a Bioware game.

ETA:

And before someone asks, no, this isn't the too stupid to use the difficutly level right one.


HAHAHA.. that got you too heh? You have to Meditate to access Character Screen and spend your talents in higher difficulties. I played 1st run in Normal till level 17, spending talents w/out meditation. Decided recreate because it was too easy and I had messed with char development. When I changed to Hard and reached level 6 unable to spend my talents, I restarted the Prologue some 10 times thinking it was a bug! (I'm officially a real expert on TW2's Prologue now!)

Then I noticed the "Character" in the Meditation Screen and voilá. The bug was sitting in my chair, in fornt of my screen and KB!

PS.: Hope you kept that save if you liked that run you were doing!

Modifié par RageGT, 26 mai 2011 - 05:30 .


#219
Dave of Canada

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neppakyo wrote...

But the witcher 2.. 

:innocent:


... is a good game but highly overrated on these boards.

#220
In Exile

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RageGT wrote...
HAHAHA.. that got you too heh? You have to Meditate to access Character Screen and spend your talents in higher difficulties. I played 1st run in Normal till level 17, spending talents w/out meditation. Decided recreate because it was too easy and I had messed with char development. When I changed to Hard and reached level 6 unable to spend my talents, I restarted the Prologue some 10 times thinking it was a bug! (I'm officially a real expert on TW2's Prologue now!)

Then I noticed the "Character" in the Meditation Screen and voilá. The bug was sitting in my chair, in fornt of my screen and KB!

PS.: Hope you kept that save if you liked that run you were doing!


No, it isn't the hard difficulty. It's a genuine bug. Even when I meditate it can't work. But I just swapped my saves (I kept multiple saved game folders for TW2 to sort by character & choices, so I could just pick off where I left off).

#221
erynnar

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Ariella wrote...

Dude, get over yourself, it's a game not a war, and if someone spends 50 bucks on a game they should be able to enjoy it.

Elements that should not be taken from TW2:
Boxing
Armwrestling

Even the minigames in Fable 2 were better than this, and made more sense.


Funny, I felt the same way about DA2. And I paid more for it. Yet on this forum I was called a hater, elitist, un-adaptable, narrow minded, short sighted and just plain stupid for not catching the uber, epic wonderfullness of the meta game of DA2.  I feel your pain.

And in your opinion those things like boxing, and arm wrestling shouldn't be taken from TW2. On one hand I agree. On the other, the puzzles (like in DAO) were sorely lacking. The first set of barrels in the Fade of DA2? Seriously? Then the second set?  oohh, wow! 

At least the boxing I can pretend it is the hospital that refuses the cancer patient (who finally found a donor for a blood marrow transplant) that they won't perform the surgery that will save his life (if he doesn't have it he has about 3 months) unless they get their 4k up front. His sister called me in tears. Yes, that was the sum total of my lovely day today, how about you? Anyone who says the love angst...sure, PM me. I have plenty of angst for you to fulfill your angsty needs.

So in my opinion, I don't mind beating the snot out of someone. But I would prefer to keep it in TW2. :lol: I would prefer to have BioWare go back to DAO, not TW2 for inspiration. I will gladly keep my Witcher and my DA separate.  Are there things BoWare could learn from TW2? Oh yeah.

But really, BioWare you should stick with what they do best, and stop trying to be all new, hip, colorful, bright, in your face, lets grab the kinetic new folks crowd. You want a lesson from TW2 and CDProjeckt, BioWare? Make games for the crowd that loved you to begin with and stop trying to serve multiple masters. And no, that doesn't mean don't try new stories or new things, but if you are going to do one, pick one, no flashback for the whole damn thing, and tell it well. No rushing your genius this time. And for ****'s sake, drop the anime bubble gum Twilight/DIsney crap mixed with darker themes. Pick one. Either go sparkle vampire, cutsey, "don't ever leave" melodrama or go with adult themes and dark grit. It makes me bipolar trying to figure out which audience your're trying for. Oh, and get the ME out of DA. It doesn't belong there, no matter how popular ME is, or how well it worked for a Sci Fi shooter/RPG.

The fans you had were loyal and will gladly get more audience members and fans for you if stop treating us like were are just not good enough for you anymore when it comes to game play and that we don't make you enough money.

#222
Guest_simfamUP_*

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Dave of Canada wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

But the witcher 2.. 

:innocent:


... is a good game but highly overrated on these boards.


Ah, they're just angry at Bioware, so they use TW2 to ****** them of  ^_^

#223
Guest_simfamUP_*

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Ariella wrote...

Dominator24 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Luvinn wrote...

Fix1o0 wrote...

How hard is it to understand that casual in The Witcher 2 doesn't take olympic level?


At a certain point in TW2 you become so overpowered compare to the enemies too. At the beginning it can be hard, but if you make use of alchemy, bombs and traps its fairly simple on easy difficulty. I go the swordsman path, and once you get the aoe effect strikes (name of talent escapes me at the time), the major complaint is that the combat gets too easy.


But you have to get to that point. If you are so frustrated with the game you may never reach that point. The game ends up on the shelf and off the hard drive. Which is why many games include tutorials and/or have an easy difficulty level that is truly easy. Then once you get the hang of it you can increase the level if so desired.


Learn, adapt or die. Sorry but if you can't learn from you mistakes then you will die.
The hardest fight I had was with second boss Letho, and first time he killed me in less then 10sek !?. But I didn't quit, I died and died and then some more death, it was a good training ground. In the end when I finally got the hang of his moves and my combo chains I did a perfect 100% hp fight. What I did to win? start with aartd  then 3 hit fast/strong/strong roll off, grenade> aard (or go in close and block/counter)........... and so on.
Is it hard at first?? sure, but it really forces you to learn and adapt to situations quickly or you will end dead, time after time, till you eventually learn something form it :)


Dude, get over yourself, it's a game not a war, and if someone spends 50 bucks on a game they should be able to enjoy it.

Elements that should not be taken from TW2:
Boxing
Armwrestling

Even the minigames in Fable 2 were better than this, and made more sense.


Well they weren't going to have bar dances and sing merry songs were they? Atleast it's better than that silly animation Geralt used to do in TWI ::D

#224
Realmzmaster

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erynnar wrote...

Ariella wrote...

Dude, get over yourself, it's a game not a war, and if someone spends 50 bucks on a game they should be able to enjoy it.

Elements that should not be taken from TW2:
Boxing
Armwrestling

Even the minigames in Fable 2 were better than this, and made more sense.


Funny, I felt the same way about DA2. And I paid more for it. Yet on this forum I was called a hater, elitist, un-adaptable, narrow minded, short sighted and just plain stupid for not catching the uber, epic wonderfullness of the meta game of DA2.  I feel your pain.

And in your opinion those things like boxing, and arm wrestling shouldn't be taken from TW2. On one hand I agree. On the other, the puzzles (like in DAO) were sorely lacking. The first set of barrels in the Fade of DA2? Seriously? Then the second set?  oohh, wow! 

At least the boxing I can pretend it is the hospital that refuses the cancer patient (who finally found a donor for a blood marrow transplant) that they won't perform the surgery that will save his life (if he doesn't have it he has about 3 months) unless they get their 4k up front. His sister called me in tears. Yes, that was the sum total of my lovely day today, how about you? Anyone who says the love angst...sure, PM me. I have plenty of angst for you to fulfill your angsty needs.

So in my opinion, I don't mind beating the snot out of someone. But I would prefer to keep it in TW2. :lol: I would prefer to have BioWare go back to DAO, not TW2 for inspiration. I will gladly keep my Witcher and my DA separate.  Are there things BoWare could learn from TW2? Oh yeah.

But really, BioWare you should stick with what they do best, and stop trying to be all new, hip, colorful, bright, in your face, lets grab the kinetic new folks crowd. You want a lesson from TW2 and CDProjeckt, BioWare? Make games for the crowd that loved you to begin with and stop trying to serve multiple masters. And no, that doesn't mean don't try new stories or new things, but if you are going to do one, pick one, no flashback for the whole damn thing, and tell it well. No rushing your genius this time. And for ****'s sake, drop the anime bubble gum Twilight/DIsney crap mixed with darker themes. Pick one. Either go sparkle vampire, cutsey, "don't ever leave" melodrama or go with adult themes and dark grit. It makes me bipolar trying to figure out which audience your're trying for. Oh, and get the ME out of DA. It doesn't belong there, no matter how popular ME is, or how well it worked for a Sci Fi shooter/RPG.

The fans you had were loyal and will gladly get more audience members and fans for you if stop treating us like were are just not good enough for you anymore when it comes to game play and that we don't make you enough money.

Where will all these new audience members come from? How will they be recruited? How many new audience members have each of us introduce to DAO? So EA/Bioware should stop advertising and let the loyal fan base bring in the numbers? How are you going to bring in the Half-life or COD crowd or even a portion of it.

You cannot mean the Witcher or Skyrim crowd because all of them play CRPGs and proably already play Bioware games. So no new numbers there.
So who are you going to bring in? You cannot bring in numbers unless you have a product that appeals to the new audience members.

#225
orbit991

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They should take detail, no more copy pasted textures and environments, make something beautiful that looks real and organic. Motion capture for fighters, real fights not a circus please. Also they should use WItchers pause,instead of pausing the game completely while making choices, things went into slow motion, it keeps you in the game. Finally a branching story where your choices actually make a difference, and not one choice at the end, but a big web of choices that haunt you later and through the game.

One more thing, add Vernon Roche as a companion, thanks :)

Modifié par orbit991, 26 mai 2011 - 08:13 .