What I mean is that the feinter should be a meleer. Like this:
http://nwn2db.com/bu...23817&version=1
Is a Sneak Attack party viable in SoZ?
Débuté par
Mysstic1
, mai 24 2011 04:01
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#27
Posté 28 mai 2011 - 03:36
Mysstic1
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Ah, I see. That's a good point. Feint only takes away one attack from a flurry, so a melee character can still contribute to the fight even when tossing in a feint. One problem is that a lot of the class dips to improve bluff are casting classes rather than melee ones. I'll see if I can brainstorm something though.
I had a related question. I've never used Feint before, so correct me if I'm wrong, but it can be used more than once a round, can't it? Is it useable once per melee flurry?
I had a related question. I've never used Feint before, so correct me if I'm wrong, but it can be used more than once a round, can't it? Is it useable once per melee flurry?
#28
Posté 28 mai 2011 - 12:13
Arkalezth
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If succesful, the effect lasts for 6 seconds, so you don't need to use it again until the next round. It "consumes" one of your attacks, so the more attacks/round you have, the better it gets. For example, the build I linked has 4 attacks. Using Feint, it would have 3 attacks remaining that round.
You don't need spellcasting classes to be a good feinter, that build is about the best level 12 feinter you can do. After that, just take some more Fighter/Rogue.
You don't need spellcasting classes to be a good feinter, that build is about the best level 12 feinter you can do. After that, just take some more Fighter/Rogue.
#29
Posté 31 mai 2011 - 05:21
Mysstic1
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I want to thank everyone who chipped in with advice, it was very helpful. I've decided to run with the following party, unless anyone has any other useful advice to give:
1. The Map Leader: Dark Elven Rogue X/ Swashbuckler X/ Divine Seeker 2/ Shadow Dancer 1.
Dark Elf was chosen for the elven keen senses, which provides bonuses to search skills and lets the character make six times as many search checks as any other race would. The stat bonuses to Dex and Int are helpful too, along with the magic resistance.
Rogue was taken so that the character could find traps greater than Difficulty 20, and to give lots of skill points. Swashbuckler was taken along with Daring Outlaw to give the character Weapon Finesse for free, a near-full BAB, and near-full sneak attack dice. Plus, the character will have a very high Intelligence to act as a skill monkey, and that lets the INT score double as a damage boost. Shadow Dancer was taken for HiPS. The Divine Seeker levels were taken to open up Survival as a class skill so that it can be maxed out for overland travel. It also gives a Skill Focus for Searching and Disabling Devices, and an awesome minutes-long +10 Hide and MS buff in case of emergencies.
The stealth buff plus HiPS should help the character get away if things go bad and prevent Total Party Kills. The feats taken include Able Learner and the Two-Weapon Fighting line, to maximize the number of attacks. The character will be smart enough to keep all of the important trap-finding and overland map skills maxed out except for Spellcraft. If this is important, I can swap out the party leader every once in awhile with another other stealthy character who has Spellcraft maxed, in order to do a quick check for loot. Or I can stop being paranoid and drop the Shadow Dancer level for a PrC that has Spellcraft.
2. The Feint-Master: Human Thug X/ Warlock 2/ Cleric 1/ Skullclan Hunter 3 or 4.
Thug was taken for full BAB and sneak dice, and Bluff as a class skill on most levelups. Warlock 1 was taken for Beguiling Influence (+6 Bluff), and Warlock 2 was taken for Hideous Blow. With the Warlock Buddy mod, that lets the character focus on melee and still add in the 1d6 eldritch blast damage each round that there's a successful melee attack.
Cleric was taken for the Trickery Domain (free Feint feat with no prerequisite feats needed). That gives the character room to take Silver Palm at 1st lvl (+2 Bluff), Skill Focus: Bluff (+3 Bluff), Negotiator (+2 Bluff), and the Two-Weapon Fighting line for maximum attacks.
The party is very sneak-attack dependent, so the Skullclan Hunter levels were taken to improve the party's effectiveness against crit immune opponents. Hunter lvl 2 lets sneak attacks do 1/2 damage against undead. Plus there are some nice immunities and a permanent Protection from Evil effect.
Total Bluff score for the character = Maxed skill points + Cha bonus + four attribute increases to CHA on levelups + CHA magic gear + the 13 points from Warlock and Bluffing feats. At level 4 on the beach that's a respectable 18 Bluff with no CHA gear, and by level 20 it's a whopping 41 + gear. And with the character's high BAB and two weapon fighting, they'll still be able to contribute to melee while throwing out a Feint here or there.
3. The Heavy Hitter: Human Swashbuckler X/ Rogue 3/ Cleric 2/ Champion of the Wild 2
Swashbuckler and Rogue for near full BAB, near full sneak dice, and free Weapon Finesse. Swashbuckler adds INT to damage against most enemies. CoW adds Dex to damage. Cleric is taken to get the feats needed for CoW. Cleric gives Heavy Armor Proficiency for free, and the War Domain gives Martial Weapons and Weapon Focus: Rapier when Milil is chosen as the diety. And Milil is actually a good RP choice of diety, as you'll see in the description of the fourth character. Feats taken include Combat Expertise and Dodge for CoW access, the Two-Weapon Fighting feats, and Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting to dual wield rapiers without penalty.
High BAB + sneak dice + STR & INT & DEX to damage + two weapon fighting = pain for the opposition, hopefully. The Feintmaster sets them up, and this character hits them out of the park.
4. The Caster/Party Face: Human Bard 4/ Cleric 1 or 2/ Canaith Lyrist 10/ Stormsinger 4 or 5
Bard is taken to four levels to qualify for Canaith Lyrist. Water Domain on the Cleric level gives the needed Evasion to access the class. Canaith Lyrist improves bardsongs, inspirations, and divine casting, and it gives full BAB. Stormsinger improves bardsongs, inspirations, and divine casting, plus gives some damaging special effects.
Feats taken will include Holy Warrior for extra melee damage, Spell Reserve feats to nuke opponents without wasting precious spell slots, various feats to improve the effectiveness and utility of a bard's songs and inspirations, and Healing Hymn. Healing Hymn adds ranks in the Perform skill to the effectiveness of any healing spell. This guy will be an awesome healer in his own right, but with that feat even the level 1 healing spells that the other two party members have will also be tremendously effective.
The character at 20 will have the casting power of a 16th level cleric and the songs and inspirations of a 19th lvl bard. Thats a +3 to attack/damage or +3 regeneration, useable at will, great in a game where the buffs reset after every encounter. Add in the melee ability and the spell reserve feats for offense, the passive and active healing ability for defense, maxed Diplomacy and a High CHA for social interactions, and you've got a very capable party member.
Sorry about the length of this post. So what do you think? Is this good for a SoZ run-through?
1. The Map Leader: Dark Elven Rogue X/ Swashbuckler X/ Divine Seeker 2/ Shadow Dancer 1.
Dark Elf was chosen for the elven keen senses, which provides bonuses to search skills and lets the character make six times as many search checks as any other race would. The stat bonuses to Dex and Int are helpful too, along with the magic resistance.
Rogue was taken so that the character could find traps greater than Difficulty 20, and to give lots of skill points. Swashbuckler was taken along with Daring Outlaw to give the character Weapon Finesse for free, a near-full BAB, and near-full sneak attack dice. Plus, the character will have a very high Intelligence to act as a skill monkey, and that lets the INT score double as a damage boost. Shadow Dancer was taken for HiPS. The Divine Seeker levels were taken to open up Survival as a class skill so that it can be maxed out for overland travel. It also gives a Skill Focus for Searching and Disabling Devices, and an awesome minutes-long +10 Hide and MS buff in case of emergencies.
The stealth buff plus HiPS should help the character get away if things go bad and prevent Total Party Kills. The feats taken include Able Learner and the Two-Weapon Fighting line, to maximize the number of attacks. The character will be smart enough to keep all of the important trap-finding and overland map skills maxed out except for Spellcraft. If this is important, I can swap out the party leader every once in awhile with another other stealthy character who has Spellcraft maxed, in order to do a quick check for loot. Or I can stop being paranoid and drop the Shadow Dancer level for a PrC that has Spellcraft.
2. The Feint-Master: Human Thug X/ Warlock 2/ Cleric 1/ Skullclan Hunter 3 or 4.
Thug was taken for full BAB and sneak dice, and Bluff as a class skill on most levelups. Warlock 1 was taken for Beguiling Influence (+6 Bluff), and Warlock 2 was taken for Hideous Blow. With the Warlock Buddy mod, that lets the character focus on melee and still add in the 1d6 eldritch blast damage each round that there's a successful melee attack.
Cleric was taken for the Trickery Domain (free Feint feat with no prerequisite feats needed). That gives the character room to take Silver Palm at 1st lvl (+2 Bluff), Skill Focus: Bluff (+3 Bluff), Negotiator (+2 Bluff), and the Two-Weapon Fighting line for maximum attacks.
The party is very sneak-attack dependent, so the Skullclan Hunter levels were taken to improve the party's effectiveness against crit immune opponents. Hunter lvl 2 lets sneak attacks do 1/2 damage against undead. Plus there are some nice immunities and a permanent Protection from Evil effect.
Total Bluff score for the character = Maxed skill points + Cha bonus + four attribute increases to CHA on levelups + CHA magic gear + the 13 points from Warlock and Bluffing feats. At level 4 on the beach that's a respectable 18 Bluff with no CHA gear, and by level 20 it's a whopping 41 + gear. And with the character's high BAB and two weapon fighting, they'll still be able to contribute to melee while throwing out a Feint here or there.
3. The Heavy Hitter: Human Swashbuckler X/ Rogue 3/ Cleric 2/ Champion of the Wild 2
Swashbuckler and Rogue for near full BAB, near full sneak dice, and free Weapon Finesse. Swashbuckler adds INT to damage against most enemies. CoW adds Dex to damage. Cleric is taken to get the feats needed for CoW. Cleric gives Heavy Armor Proficiency for free, and the War Domain gives Martial Weapons and Weapon Focus: Rapier when Milil is chosen as the diety. And Milil is actually a good RP choice of diety, as you'll see in the description of the fourth character. Feats taken include Combat Expertise and Dodge for CoW access, the Two-Weapon Fighting feats, and Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting to dual wield rapiers without penalty.
High BAB + sneak dice + STR & INT & DEX to damage + two weapon fighting = pain for the opposition, hopefully. The Feintmaster sets them up, and this character hits them out of the park.
4. The Caster/Party Face: Human Bard 4/ Cleric 1 or 2/ Canaith Lyrist 10/ Stormsinger 4 or 5
Bard is taken to four levels to qualify for Canaith Lyrist. Water Domain on the Cleric level gives the needed Evasion to access the class. Canaith Lyrist improves bardsongs, inspirations, and divine casting, and it gives full BAB. Stormsinger improves bardsongs, inspirations, and divine casting, plus gives some damaging special effects.
Feats taken will include Holy Warrior for extra melee damage, Spell Reserve feats to nuke opponents without wasting precious spell slots, various feats to improve the effectiveness and utility of a bard's songs and inspirations, and Healing Hymn. Healing Hymn adds ranks in the Perform skill to the effectiveness of any healing spell. This guy will be an awesome healer in his own right, but with that feat even the level 1 healing spells that the other two party members have will also be tremendously effective.
The character at 20 will have the casting power of a 16th level cleric and the songs and inspirations of a 19th lvl bard. Thats a +3 to attack/damage or +3 regeneration, useable at will, great in a game where the buffs reset after every encounter. Add in the melee ability and the spell reserve feats for offense, the passive and active healing ability for defense, maxed Diplomacy and a High CHA for social interactions, and you've got a very capable party member.
Sorry about the length of this post. So what do you think? Is this good for a SoZ run-through?
