105 réponses à ce sujet

[jamesp81]

aimlessgun wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...
As for Bioware, it's not particularly relevant to me if they care about me spending my money on the game or not.  I do not spend money on products I'm not interested in.  Opinions of others in that decision are not considered.

Yeah, pretty much. I'll lobby for what I want, you'll lobby for what you want, and I certainly hope I win 

So, what are you lobbying for?

[jamesp81]

leonia42 wrote...

Actually, the Alliance has its headquarters at Arcturus Station, which is NOT in the Sol system.

I'm sorry, but as someone who enjoys BSG and saw how the remnants of humanity managed to survive near exitinction when their equivalent of Earth was destroyed, I find it hard to believe that things would be any different here. Especially when there are alien races to help us out. If you don't trust the Council or the rest of the species, that's your business but I think you'll find that every species will be in a similar situation in ME3 and cooperation will be the key to everyone's survival.

If you don't want to spend money on a game where Earth doesn't survive, that's your business. I think it's silly to want the usual, standard ending though. This is why we can't have nice things, nobody ever wants to try anything new.

There is nothing new under the sun in terms of literary plots.  Hell, there's less than a dozen stories that have ever been told in all of human literary history anyway, they just change the setting, the plot, and the characters.

[Bourne Endeavor]

From the article...

""This is the galactic war Shepard has been warning everyone about for two games now. This is the whole galaxy at war," Hudson confirms. "This isn't an alien invasion story where you're fighting off the invasion. They are unstoppable. You narrowly escape. And then your goal is to figure out how to rally the forces of the whole galaxy; that's what it's going to take to come back and reclaim the Earth. It's like in Mass Effect 2 where you're building a team of twelve people, but this time you're building an entire army.""

Thus, it would appear Earth is not being destroyed but merely abandoned with destruction a possibility I suppose.

[jamesp81]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

From the article...

""This is the galactic war Shepard has been warning everyone about for two games now. This is the whole galaxy at war," Hudson confirms. "This isn't an alien invasion story where you're fighting off the invasion. They are unstoppable. You narrowly escape. And then your goal is to figure out how to rally the forces of the whole galaxy; that's what it's going to take to come back and reclaim the Earth. It's like in Mass Effect 2 where you're building a team of twelve people, but this time you're building an entire army.""

Thus, it would appear Earth is not being destroyed but merely abandoned with destruction a possibility I suppose.

I am almost certain it will be possible to have a fail ending like in ME2 where Shepard can die.  Although I'll have to admit that ME2's fail ending was kind of hard to get.  You really had to screw the pooch pretty hard to get it.

You know what ending I want, but I want it to be more difficult to achieve than was the case in ME2, and the 'epic fail' ending should be easier to fall into if you screw up.

[Spectreshadow]

It is going to be heartbreaking if the Earth gets completely wreaked by the Reapers and is uninhabitable. I hope Earthbornes get extra impact from this.

[CroGamer002]

jamesp81 wrote...

If Earth falls and it is apparent that it's going to be lost completely, I don't see any of the Alliance fleet surviving. At some point, the remaining fleet launches a last ditch suicidal assault in which the fleet either retakes Earth or dies trying.

Are you following anything about ME3?
Alliance won't make last ditch suicidal assault. Counterattack is gonna be organized along side with almost every other race.

High possibility that some of the Alliance fleet to survive, unless attack is gonna be total failure and Reapers would just reap entire galaxy so who cares about pirates then?

Most of the human race is from Earth, ergo, most of the military personnel are drawn from Earth They will, undoubtedly, do this if a solution that saves Earth is not found.  I just don't see any of the Alliance fleet surviving otherwise.

And how does that has anything to do with Alliance fleet not surviving?

In fact, the idea that the Alliance fleet would retreat from Earth at all is stretching things a little, but I can still see it without breaking immersion.

Because if they don't retreat and make plan to counterattack along side with other races, they'll just die.

Also most of the fleet is not at Earth.

Why would it take lawless bands years to simply occupy every colony?  It's not as if they don't know where those colonies are located.  They aren't Reapers, they don't have to take time to smoothie everyone, after all.

If they don't need to smooth everyone then humanity is not in danger to be completely under slavery, let alone extinction.

[jamesp81]

Hmm, yeah, the entire fleet isn't at Earth. I would expect any forces in the Sol system would likely fight to the last man, though. But I think most of the fleet is at certain relay nexuses spread throughout Alliance space. That's what the Codex suggests.

[KotorEffect3]

It should be possible to lose or save earth depending upon our choices in all three games, and losing earth should not mean losing the war.

[Cosmar]

^ This. Ultimate Paragon ending would be willingly sacrificing Earth to save other worlds.

Most of humanity lives on Earth, but a HUGE number also live on other worlds, many of them not actual "visitable" in any of the games, but if you read the descriptions you can see the population numbers of some of them and know that humans live there. If Earth is lost, or rendered uninhabitable, (which a worldwide nuclear holocaust would result in), there's no reason humans can't just move in to one of their colony worlds, like Eden Prime or Horizon.

Seriously...if Earth emerges from the war without any serious losses and destruction, then the whole trilogy is cheapened and all the buildup of the threat of the Reapers rendered pointless. If the ME trilogy ends up being another generic sci-fi with humanity destroying an ancient cosmic threat that no one else could and still come out of it just peachy and get back to life as usual....well, that would be quite a shame.

Modifié par Cosmar, 24 mai 2011 - 10:40 .

[Any_ILL]

only fail ending is boring. Sure there should be one (a real one this time, since it's the last episod. Not like in ME3 ME2), one in which the reaper do win.

But above all, there should be "intermediate endings". The reaper are beaten but the earth (and possibly the humanity) is doomed is a really good example. Another would imply the destruction of all reaper technology to win (including the mass effect technology) so each system would be isolated again for several thousands of years at least (I would really like this one, even if it was the happiest ending ^^)
These intermediate endings should be the easiest to achieve in the first playthrough with the total failure one.
The real happy ending (of course it would still imply a few billions of dead) should be really hard to get.

So yes, the empty (partially or totally) earth is a very good possibility (even total anhilation), and I really hope it will be one of the possibilities. But even if it's not a possibility but the only way to achieve victory, I'll still enjoy it.

PS: I too consider the victory over the reaper as a victory in this war and a ME3 win. Even if it means the death of all the human kind in the next few years; it's insignificant in comparison with this victory.

Modifié par Any_ILL, 24 mai 2011 - 11:15 .

[vanslyke85]

Any_ILL wrote...

only fail ending is boring. Sure there should be one (a real one this time, since it's the last episod. Not like in ME3), one in which the reaper do win.

But above all, there should be "intermediate endings". The reaper are beaten but the earth (and possibly the humanity) is doomed is a really good example. Another would imply the destruction of all reaper technology to win (including the mass effect technology) so each system would be isolated again for several thousands of years at least (I would really like this one, even if it was the happiest ending ^^)
These intermediate endings should be the easiest to achieve in the first playthrough with the total failure one.
The real happy ending (of course it would still imply a few billions of dead) should be really hard to get.

So yes, the empty (partially or totally) earth is a very good possibility (even total anhilation), and I really hope it will be one of the possibility. But even if it's not a possibility but the only way to achieve victory, I'll still enjoy it.

PS: I too consider the victory over the reaper as a victory in this war and a ME3 win. Even if it means the death of all the human kind in the next few years; it's insignificant in comparison with this victory.

cool ideas.  i like the idea of a few possible outcomes of earth depending on how you played all three games.

[jamesp81]

Any_ILL wrote...

only fail ending is boring. Sure there should be one (a real one this time, since it's the last episod. Not like in ME3 ME2), one in which the reaper do win.

But above all, there should be "intermediate endings". The reaper are beaten but the earth (and possibly the humanity) is doomed is a really good example. Another would imply the destruction of all reaper technology to win (including the mass effect technology) so each system would be isolated again for several thousands of years at least (I would really like this one, even if it was the happiest ending ^^)
These intermediate endings should be the easiest to achieve in the first playthrough with the total failure one.
The real happy ending (of course it would still imply a few billions of dead) should be really hard to get.

So yes, the empty (partially or totally) earth is a very good possibility (even total anhilation), and I really hope it will be one of the possibilities. But even if it's not a possibility but the only way to achieve victory, I'll still enjoy it.

PS: I too consider the victory over the reaper as a victory in this war and a ME3 win. Even if it means the death of all the human kind in the next few years; it's insignificant in comparison with this victory.

Speak for yourself.  I'm here to save humanity and it's homeworld.

One of my long term concerns is how the end of ME3 plays out for future post ME3 content.  Bioware has created such a wonderful universe that it'd be a shame to not be able to use it for further content.  Destruction of mankind would pretty much kill any post ME3 content for me, at least.  So would near complete annihilation of all races, to the point that it'd be millenia before they recovered.

Yes, I know, you could set a game three thousand years down the road when everyone had recovered.  I don't have any interest in that as I'd have no connection to it to make me care about it.

Unless Bioware plans to not do anything with Mass Effect after ME3, then one of the endings in ME3 has to be declared the "real" ending so that the writers will have a stable backdrop to work with.  And it'd be a real damned shame if they just shelved the whole thing after ME3, IMO.

Edit:

They don't have to declare a "real" ending to ME3 if your choices only affect Shepard and his crew.  If the political situation shakes out the same in every ending, then they could work from that.  If that backdrop were "Earth is gone and humans are an endangered species" that would be kind of lame.

Modifié par jamesp81, 25 mai 2011 - 12:17 .

[KotorEffect3]

jamesp81 wrote...

Any_ILL wrote...

only fail ending is boring. Sure there should be one (a real one this time, since it's the last episod. Not like in ME3 ME2), one in which the reaper do win.

But above all, there should be "intermediate endings". The reaper are beaten but the earth (and possibly the humanity) is doomed is a really good example. Another would imply the destruction of all reaper technology to win (including the mass effect technology) so each system would be isolated again for several thousands of years at least (I would really like this one, even if it was the happiest ending ^^)
These intermediate endings should be the easiest to achieve in the first playthrough with the total failure one.
The real happy ending (of course it would still imply a few billions of dead) should be really hard to get.

So yes, the empty (partially or totally) earth is a very good possibility (even total anhilation), and I really hope it will be one of the possibilities. But even if it's not a possibility but the only way to achieve victory, I'll still enjoy it.

PS: I too consider the victory over the reaper as a victory in this war and a ME3 win. Even if it means the death of all the human kind in the next few years; it's insignificant in comparison with this victory.

Speak for yourself.  I'm here to save humanity and it's homeworld.

.

Then  you do your playthrough with saving earth as your top goal in mind but don't act like every possible ending has to save earth no matter what.  My goal is to save the galaxy (there is more than just humanity at stake) and stop the reaper cycles at any cost even if that means sacrificing earth.  The stakes in ME 3 have to be really high which means the gambles and possible sacrifices have to be high and earth should not be immune to the possibility of destruction sure it should be avoidable but still possible to lose earth depending on choices you have made through out the series.

Modifié par KotorEffect3, 25 mai 2011 - 12:28 .

[jamesp81]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

Any_ILL wrote...

only fail ending is boring. Sure there should be one (a real one this time, since it's the last episod. Not like in ME3 ME2), one in which the reaper do win.

But above all, there should be "intermediate endings". The reaper are beaten but the earth (and possibly the humanity) is doomed is a really good example. Another would imply the destruction of all reaper technology to win (including the mass effect technology) so each system would be isolated again for several thousands of years at least (I would really like this one, even if it was the happiest ending ^^)
These intermediate endings should be the easiest to achieve in the first playthrough with the total failure one.
The real happy ending (of course it would still imply a few billions of dead) should be really hard to get.

So yes, the empty (partially or totally) earth is a very good possibility (even total anhilation), and I really hope it will be one of the possibilities. But even if it's not a possibility but the only way to achieve victory, I'll still enjoy it.

PS: I too consider the victory over the reaper as a victory in this war and a ME3 win. Even if it means the death of all the human kind in the next few years; it's insignificant in comparison with this victory.

Speak for yourself.  I'm here to save humanity and it's homeworld.

.

Then  you do your playthrough with saving earth as your top goal in mind but don't act like every possible ending has to save earth no matter what.  My goal is to save the galaxy (there is more than just humanity at stake) and stop the reaper cycles at any cost even if that means sacrificing earth.  The stakes in ME 3 have to be really high which means the gambles and possible sacrifices have to be high and earth should not be immune to the possibility of destruction sure it should be avoidable but still possible to lose earth depending on choices you have made through out the series.

Fine in principle, but again, this would pretty well trash any further content ME content after ME3.  Unless Bioware declares one of the endings to be the "real" one.  You can't do save imports indefinitely as it complicates exponentially.

[Cosmar]

By that argument, there will not be any further content unless it's in MMO form or something similar. Your last sentence includes save games where Earth is saved, also.

[jamesp81]

Cosmar wrote...

By that argument, there will not be any further content unless it's in MMO form or something similar. Your last sentence includes save games where Earth is saved, also.

And that may very well be the case.  It'd be a damned shame too.

[Destroy Raiden_]

Maybe the halls are abandoned because shep is retaking the city and lots of people are dead. I wouldn't give up Earth I wouldn't want my species to go all battlestar even though that was a cool series the novelty of living on board spaceships in crowded conditions wheres off fast ask the Quarians.

Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 25 mai 2011 - 02:14 .

[Bogsnot1]

Someone With Mass wrote...

I don't think the whole Earth is deserted, just that particular area.

+1
OP is jumping to conclusions due to a lack of understanding of this little thing called grammar. "Empty Earth and Martian hallways" refers to the hallways on those 2 planets being empty, not the planet being empty.

[Any_ILL]

jamesp81 wrote...

Fine in principle, but again, this would pretty well trash any further content ME content after ME3.  Unless Bioware declares one of the endings to be the "real" one.  You can't do save imports indefinitely as it complicates exponentially.

That's what they did with KotOR. They create a canon "past" (someone did not sacrifice himself to the dark side to save the galaxy from something -I hope my spoiler is general enough- but fell to it), a canon self (the canon main character is a man) and a canon playthrough. I suppose Bioware thought it was necessary, but above all, it was disapointing regarding of the two KotOR (even if useful to the mmo)

Like you said they can also put the game far in the future and make humanity survive in all victories ending (from a few hundred millions to several billions depending of the conclusion). And the game would not precise what really happened. I mean, if SW:ToR had to fix canon it was because the character of KotOR was important in the mmo. It will probably not be the case of Shepard in the next game who is "just" a galaxy savior.

The problem is, you have too many demand, you're too specific, too intransigeant so I doubt you're the typical client of bioware. He will buy ME3 and don't give a damn about a "canon endng" or whether or not the next game happen centuries later. You seem to have a need that they recognize your ending as the best ending by making it canon and declaring every other possibility disappointing.

Modifié par Any_ILL, 25 mai 2011 - 07:35 .

[Jzadek72]

jamesp81 wrote...

vanslyke85 wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

I will praise BioWare like no tomorrow if they tempt what few companies in this industry dare even consider; the destruction or abandonment of Earth.

Going to need a source though mate otherwise you are merely posting jibberish.

And I, on the other hand, won't buy their game.

And that's what Bioware does: sell games.  Most people are not interested in storytelling with dark, grim endings.  If I wanted a bunch hipster grimdark storytelling, I can get it from a Blizzard game.  They can keep this kind of crap away from the ME universe.

I'd be fine with it if we temporarily abandoned Earth, but retook it at the end of ME3 with the population moving back in.  The problem I see with that is that there's simply no way there's enough spacelift capacity to evacuate billions of people.  Hell, the Quarian Migrant Fleet has 50,000 starships in it and it only houses 17 million Quarians in overcrowded conditions.

Just because the earth is abandoned doesn't mean it's going to be a dark grim ending.  We could colonize a new world after shep kicks some reaper ass.  in the mass effect universe, anything is possible.  as if you won't buy the game.

Bzzt.  Wrong on every count.

1) Earth destroyed in any way is a grim ending

2) I damned well won't buy it.  Bioware is not entitled to my money, they gotta earn it just the same as everyone else.

3) This is a heroic space opera.  I didn't play the first two games so I could ****ing lose in the finale.  Earth destroyed = you lost.  Period.

4) This has been discussed at greath length.  If you wipe out Earth's population, humanity as a major player in the galaxy is finished.  Most of the colonies will likely be conquered by batarians or similar thug regimes in short order, as they do not, on their own, have the ability to defend themselves. 99% of the human race in ME lives on Earth.  Destroy Earth and you destroy mankind.  The remaining survivors might continue to linger in a twilight existence as batarian slaves, but humanity would be finished as anyone that mattered.

So you want everything to end happily against the Reapers? That would be really immersion breaking - we should expect casualties. This isn't a cartoon, this is supposed to be the galactic apocalypse. People will die.

[Jzadek72]

Any_ILL wrote...

only fail ending is boring. Sure there should be one (a real one this time, since it's the last episod. Not like in ME3 ME2), one in which the reaper do win.

But above all, there should be "intermediate endings". The reaper are beaten but the earth (and possibly the humanity) is doomed is a really good example. Another would imply the destruction of all reaper technology to win (including the mass effect technology) so each system would be isolated again for several thousands of years at least (I would really like this one, even if it was the happiest ending ^^)

Ever read Hyperion? It ends a lot like that.

[jamesp81]

Jzadek72 wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

vanslyke85 wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

I will praise BioWare like no tomorrow if they tempt what few companies in this industry dare even consider; the destruction or abandonment of Earth.

Going to need a source though mate otherwise you are merely posting jibberish.

And I, on the other hand, won't buy their game.

And that's what Bioware does: sell games.  Most people are not interested in storytelling with dark, grim endings.  If I wanted a bunch hipster grimdark storytelling, I can get it from a Blizzard game.  They can keep this kind of crap away from the ME universe.

I'd be fine with it if we temporarily abandoned Earth, but retook it at the end of ME3 with the population moving back in.  The problem I see with that is that there's simply no way there's enough spacelift capacity to evacuate billions of people.  Hell, the Quarian Migrant Fleet has 50,000 starships in it and it only houses 17 million Quarians in overcrowded conditions.

Just because the earth is abandoned doesn't mean it's going to be a dark grim ending.  We could colonize a new world after shep kicks some reaper ass.  in the mass effect universe, anything is possible.  as if you won't buy the game.

Bzzt.  Wrong on every count.

1) Earth destroyed in any way is a grim ending

2) I damned well won't buy it.  Bioware is not entitled to my money, they gotta earn it just the same as everyone else.

3) This is a heroic space opera.  I didn't play the first two games so I could ****ing lose in the finale.  Earth destroyed = you lost.  Period.

4) This has been discussed at greath length.  If you wipe out Earth's population, humanity as a major player in the galaxy is finished.  Most of the colonies will likely be conquered by batarians or similar thug regimes in short order, as they do not, on their own, have the ability to defend themselves. 99% of the human race in ME lives on Earth.  Destroy Earth and you destroy mankind.  The remaining survivors might continue to linger in a twilight existence as batarian slaves, but humanity would be finished as anyone that mattered.

So you want everything to end happily against the Reapers? That would be really immersion breaking - we should expect casualties. This isn't a cartoon, this is supposed to be the galactic apocalypse. People will die.

I didn't say there wouldn't be casualties.  I don't know why people think that I did.  I want there to be "an Earth left to save" after I send the Reapers screaming into hell.  I expect that a large percentage of the Earth's population isn't going to survive it.  A large percentage would need to survive it, however, to leave humanity a viable galactic player.  I'd not find the game believable if the civilian casualties weren't measured in the billions with a 'b', but if Earth is population zero when I show up to liberate it, the other two games have all been nothing.  I'd prefer to show up and liberate the place with at least 3 or 4 billion left.  That would constitute about a 70% kill off of the populace.

Modifié par jamesp81, 25 mai 2011 - 12:42 .

[jamesp81]

Any_ILL wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

Fine in principle, but again, this would pretty well trash any further content ME content after ME3.  Unless Bioware declares one of the endings to be the "real" one.  You can't do save imports indefinitely as it complicates exponentially.

That's what they did with KotOR. They create a canon "past" (someone did not sacrifice himself to the dark side to save the galaxy from something -I hope my spoiler is general enough- but fell to it), a canon self (the canon main character is a man) and a canon playthrough. I suppose Bioware thought it was necessary, but above all, it was disapointing regarding of the two KotOR (even if useful to the mmo)

Like you said they can also put the game far in the future and make humanity survive in all victories ending (from a few hundred millions to several billions depending of the conclusion). And the game would not precise what really happened. I mean, if SW:ToR had to fix canon it was because the character of KotOR was important in the mmo. It will probably not be the case of Shepard in the next game who is "just" a galaxy savior.

The problem is, you have too many demand, you're too specific, too intransigeant so I doubt you're the typical client of bioware. He will buy ME3 and don't give a damn about a "canon endng" or whether or not the next game happen centuries later. You seem to have a need that they recognize your ending as the best ending by making it canon and declaring every other possibility disappointing.

Not interested in a galaxy set a few thousand years down the road.  That's a setting I have no inherent connection with, and thus I'd have a lot of trouble really caring about it.  Especially if the result of playing in that setting is because I failed to save Earth or, or saved very little of it, in the last game.  I'd be going into a trilogy expecting to **** up and lose.  Again.  This is also the reason why I never got into Star Wars very much.  Certainly it was a ground breaking film at the time for many reasons, but I never could bring myself to care what happened to the characters or the galaxy, for two reasons: I had no personal connection to that particular setting, and I found major things I disliked about both the protagonists and the antagonists.  Dislike of the protagonists was especially true in the novels, such as the New Jedi Order books.

In my mind, the defining military SF space opera is David Weber's Starfire series; it is the standard by which I judge all others.  He does a good job of dragging the reader down to the depths of hopelessness, but the goodguys still win the day at the end, all without any ridiculous Deus Ex Machina type devices.  Bioware has measured up well thus far, but there's still plenty of room for them to screw it up.

What you call "intransigence" I call persistence.  I know what I want and have no problem campaigning for it.  Nobody is ever going to give you anything unless you work for it anyway, so I'm just doing my part.

[Gabey5]

how do you evacuate 10 billion people in 20 minutes?