638 réponses à ce sujet

[Well]

themonty72 wrote...

TO WELL---I see you are comparing my thoughts on the Arishok with skilled seeker. Lets hear your personal thoughts about the Arishok.

Actually I wasn't.I posted my views in the question form.Trying to be a little snarky.Well guess it was a Epic Fail on the snarky part.As far as why do people respect the arishok.I have no idea.He has done nothing to earn respect.He has done plenty to earn contempt.Screw his culture.He is a guest.You dont get to make the rules.Qunari have left him so apparently his leadership skills are lacking.He is like a pampered little princess.It is all about me,myself,and I.He has no honor.That was aparent when he attack the few guards with Hawke.Arishok was mighty brave when he had the unarmed noble killed.Just another petty tyrant who got his head handed to him in the end.I loved it when he threw a fit.I just wish there had been a line on the wheel for Hawke.Asking him if he needed a crying towel.

[vehzeel]

He's respected because he isn't shifty or greedy. He is focused och patient.




(His handwaving is slightly annoying and laughable though. I instantly saw the likeness between Master Tang from Kung Pow and the Arishok: )

Modifié par vehzeel, 03 juin 2011 - 09:22 .

[Well]

vehzeel wrote...

He's respected because he isn't shifty or greedy. He is focused och patient.




(His handwaving is slightly annoying and laughable though. I instantly saw the likeness between Master Tang from Kung Pow and the Arishok: )

Murdering the noble who questioned him is so much better.

[vehzeel]

"Hrrmph, details"

[Shadow Raziel]

MCPOWill wrote...

Because the Arishok is a leader with integrity. Not often you see a people of power that fully committed to what they believe and stand for. As a society we hold these people, both good and bad in high regard and respect. We want to be like that, yet most of us never are wholly committed to our believes and stances on things. This is why people like the Arishok, he is a man of his word and commit to the philosophy of the Qun in which he doesn't falter from.

Well stated.. and the word for that is respect... you don't have to like someone or agree with them to respect them.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

The reason that I respect him is that he was the most honest character in the entire game. He tells you up front who and what he is, what he thinks, what he likes and what he doesn’t, what his true purpose is in Kirkwall. The Arishok doesn’t even tell the Viscount this.  

He is also willing to listen to Hawke more so than any other person in Kirkwall.  You have gained his respect if you don’t hide what is done to his people and those under his protection, and he offers you a warrior's honor to each other to listen to your stance on matters, regardless if he agrees with Hawke or not. 

He is the only one throughout the entire city who actually values your opinion.  Everyone else uses you for his/her own gain, even your companions and love interest.   To steal the part of a title to another thread on the forums, Hawke was a scapegoat being used and the Arishok knew it and he gives Hawke the chance to prove to the people of Kirkwall that Hawke is the only one with any semblance of honor among them.   Just like Sten from DAO would probably say the Hero of Ferelden was the only one in Ferelden with honor.   

For me, The Arishok was the best written character in the entire game and his VO did a fantastic job. 

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 04 juin 2011 - 12:06 .

[Porenferser]

Shadow Raziel wrote...

MCPOWill wrote...

Because the Arishok is a leader with integrity. Not often you see a people of power that fully committed to what they believe and stand for. As a society we hold these people, both good and bad in high regard and respect. We want to be like that, yet most of us never are wholly committed to our believes and stances on things. This is why people like the Arishok, he is a man of his word and commit to the philosophy of the Qun in which he doesn't falter from.

Well stated.. and the word for that is respect... you don't have to like someone or agree with them to respect them.

Well said

[dragonflight288]

"The Warrior who knows himself but not his enemy may win victories, but will suffer just as many defeats. The warrior who knows himself as well as his enemy, will always win." Sun Tzu.

I don't care if people like or dislike the Arishok. He does do a lot in the city that causes a lot of harm. But he is acting with military stratagem. If an enemy things they are getting explosives, give them poison that not only doesn't effect qunari, but also turns the enemy on each other, it's a perfect tactical advantage. Striking where the enemy is weak, and the timing of the strike must be swift and hard. He does this when he actually attacks.

When people start talking about morals and what is right and wrong, are obviously not thinking like a general in charge of an army. People will die in war, no getting around it. If a calvary charges and your horse is struck by an arrow and dies. You will get thrown from your horse and have maybe a couple hundred horses behind you. You will get trampled and killed by your own side. Every decision made will get people killed. Morals and practicality must be examined. Is it more moral to end a war quickly and save a lot of bloodshed in the long run, or let the war run for years with hundreds, maybe thousands of good soldiers dying because their general is unwilling to make sacrifices?

Liking him is one thing, but if one wishes to fight the Qunari, they need to respect their soldiers dedication, their technology, and their mindset for battle. If you don't, you underestimate the enemy and set yourself up for slaughter.

[EmperorSahlertz]

dragonflight288 wrote...

"The Warrior who knows himself but not his enemy may win victories, but will suffer just as many defeats. The warrior who knows himself as well as his enemy, will always win." Sun Tzu.

I don't care if people like or dislike the Arishok. He does do a lot in the city that causes a lot of harm. But he is acting with military stratagem. If an enemy things they are getting explosives, give them poison that not only doesn't effect qunari, but also turns the enemy on each other, it's a perfect tactical advantage. Striking where the enemy is weak, and the timing of the strike must be swift and hard. He does this when he actually attacks.

When people start talking about morals and what is right and wrong, are obviously not thinking like a general in charge of an army. People will die in war, no getting around it. If a calvary charges and your horse is struck by an arrow and dies. You will get thrown from your horse and have maybe a couple hundred horses behind you. You will get trampled and killed by your own side. Every decision made will get people killed. Morals and practicality must be examined. Is it more moral to end a war quickly and save a lot of bloodshed in the long run, or let the war run for years with hundreds, maybe thousands of good soldiers dying because their general is unwilling to make sacrifices?

Liking him is one thing, but if one wishes to fight the Qunari, they need to respect their soldiers dedication, their technology, and their mindset for battle. If you don't, you underestimate the enemy and set yourself up for slaughter.

Yeah well... You see, if you make even the slightest mistake, you are a complete and utter failure and shouldn't even have been allowed to live at birth. That is the pure and infallible logic a lot of the fellas on this forum use. The mistake doesn't even have to be your own, as long as you didn't anticipate it...

[Shadow Raziel]

dragonflight288 wrote...

"The Warrior who knows himself but not his enemy may win victories, but will suffer just as many defeats. The warrior who knows himself as well as his enemy, will always win." Sun Tzu.

I don't care if people like or dislike the Arishok. He does do a lot in the city that causes a lot of harm. But he is acting with military stratagem. If an enemy things they are getting explosives, give them poison that not only doesn't effect qunari, but also turns the enemy on each other, it's a perfect tactical advantage. Striking where the enemy is weak, and the timing of the strike must be swift and hard. He does this when he actually attacks.

When people start talking about morals and what is right and wrong, are obviously not thinking like a general in charge of an army. People will die in war, no getting around it. If a calvary charges and your horse is struck by an arrow and dies. You will get thrown from your horse and have maybe a couple hundred horses behind you. You will get trampled and killed by your own side. Every decision made will get people killed. Morals and practicality must be examined. Is it more moral to end a war quickly and save a lot of bloodshed in the long run, or let the war run for years with hundreds, maybe thousands of good soldiers dying because their general is unwilling to make sacrifices?

Liking him is one thing, but if one wishes to fight the Qunari, they need to respect their soldiers dedication, their technology, and their mindset for battle. If you don't, you underestimate the enemy and set yourself up for slaughter.

Honestly I felt as if he was using his own form of an expedient means in Kirkwall.

[MCPOWill]

Well wrote...

MCPOWill wrote...

Because the Arishok is a leader with integrity. Not often you see a people of power that fully committed to what they believe and stand for. As a society we hold these people, both good and bad in high regard and respect. We want to be like that, yet most of us never are wholly committed to our believes and stances on things. This is why people like the Arishok, he is a man of his word and commit to the philosophy of the Qun in which he doesn't falter from.

I disagree.Sorry you don't speak for society.

Haha ok, you can disagree there but let me clarify, the greatest act of evil that one can inflict on another is Betrayal in about any society, on the opposite spectrum Loyality and Trustworthyness is something people across about every society hold in a high regard. Loyality and Betrayal can be in whatever form, but usually people are rewarded or killed respectively based on this. To tie this back to the subject matter, the Arishok's loyality to the Qun and trustworthiness is something I believe that many innately admire about him. 

[dragonflight288]

He certainly stays true to the Qun, unlike many in Kirkwall who don't stay true to their supposed order. Mages with the Circle, Templars and the Chantry, each side is filled to the brim with people trying to undercut the system to make things better for their individual groups. The Templars are trying to keep their power over the mages, the mages are trying to gain freedoms from the Templars, and both undercut the system they are a part of. The Arishok does not.

[Coous]

The thing I hate about morality is that some of it is just in human nature that can't just be able to follow true and I hate the whole do as I say, not as I do. Also on about war, is it moral to wage war? No, but is it moral to wage war on beliefs or ideas? some agree and some disagree. The thing is I want to get around to saying through this jumbling of words is that he's respectable for agree or not what he stands for,but that he stands 100% for what he follows and is not swayed.

[Skilled Seeker]

So does Osama Bin Laden. i guess he deserves your respect too.

[Well]

MCPOWill wrote...

Well wrote...

MCPOWill wrote...

Because the Arishok is a leader with integrity. Not often you see a people of power that fully committed to what they believe and stand for. As a society we hold these people, both good and bad in high regard and respect. We want to be like that, yet most of us never are wholly committed to our believes and stances on things. This is why people like the Arishok, he is a man of his word and commit to the philosophy of the Qun in which he doesn't falter from.

I disagree.Sorry you don't speak for society.

Haha ok, you can disagree there but let me clarify, the greatest act of evil that one can inflict on another is Betrayal in about any society, on the opposite spectrum Loyality and Trustworthyness is something people across about every society hold in a high regard. Loyality and Betrayal can be in whatever form, but usually people are rewarded or killed respectively based on this. To tie this back to the subject matter, the Arishok's loyality to the Qun and trustworthiness is something I believe that many innately admire about him. 

I am a firm believer in loyalty but there are no absolutes.Look at history and see where loyalty to a idea has led people or leaders.Just because someone has loyalty to a belief be it religious,political or whatever doesnt make it something to admire.If last century doesnt prove it nothing does.

[Skilled Seeker]

Indeed, that's what I've been saying. If someone follows a terrible dogma, then it doesn't matter what other attributes they might have, they deserve absolutely no respect. Many evil people are loyal to their causes.

[Speakeasy13]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Indeed, that's what I've been saying. If someone follows a terrible dogma, then it doesn't matter what other attributes they might have, they deserve absolutely no respect. Many evil people are loyal to their causes.

What do you mean a terrible dogma? Who decides what is a "terrible" dogma? In the words of a skilled debator Adraste can easily be made to seem just as terrible, if not worse than the Qun.

You can't accuse a religion of being "terrible". That's racist.

Modifié par Speakeasy13, 04 juin 2011 - 03:54 .

[Dormiglione]

Well wrote...

themonty72 wrote...

TO WELL---I see you are comparing my thoughts on the Arishok with skilled seeker. Lets hear your personal thoughts about the Arishok.

Actually I wasn't.I posted my views in the question form.Trying to be a little snarky.Well guess it was a Epic Fail on the snarky part.As far as why do people respect the arishok.I have no idea.He has done nothing to earn respect.He has done plenty to earn contempt.Screw his culture.He is a guest.You dont get to make the rules.Qunari have left him so apparently his leadership skills are lacking.He is like a pampered little princess.It is all about me,myself,and I.He has no honor.That was aparent when he attack the few guards with Hawke.Arishok was mighty brave when he had the unarmed noble killed.Just another petty tyrant who got his head handed to him in the end.I loved it when he threw a fit.I just wish there had been a line on the wheel for Hawke.Asking him if he needed a crying towel.

The Arishok wasnt a guest, he didnt come to Kirkwall with the intention to visit the beautiful city. He stranded there and couldnt go back home. Without the tome its like he was banned from Par Vollen.

So what did the viscount? Instead to get in real conversation with the qunari, he was busy to appease everyone. Even as Hawke told him that Petrice and a templar were involved in a intrigue against the qunari, he did nothing. A corrupt magistrate that covers his son, corrupt guards and so many other issues. The viscount? Passive.

What happened was that the patience of the Arishok ended as Hawke told that the tome were lost. At this time the qunari were already 4-6 years in Kirkwall. Now what? Stay there for eternity. Endure all provocation, murdering from the fanatics groups in the city while the viscount is just watching and doing nothing?

Its not like the qunari came over night and invaded Kirkwall without warning. The situation went more and more out of control while the viscount remained passive.

I respect the Arishok. It was not the best decision that he took in the end, but it was a decision that i can comprehend.

[themonty72]

Exactly!!!

Modifié par themonty72, 04 juin 2011 - 04:13 .

[Beerfish]

Dormiglione wrote...

Well wrote...

themonty72 wrote...

TO WELL---I see you are comparing my thoughts on the Arishok with skilled seeker. Lets hear your personal thoughts about the Arishok.

Actually I wasn't.I posted my views in the question form.Trying to be a little snarky.Well guess it was a Epic Fail on the snarky part.As far as why do people respect the arishok.I have no idea.He has done nothing to earn respect.He has done plenty to earn contempt.Screw his culture.He is a guest.You dont get to make the rules.Qunari have left him so apparently his leadership skills are lacking.He is like a pampered little princess.It is all about me,myself,and I.He has no honor.That was aparent when he attack the few guards with Hawke.Arishok was mighty brave when he had the unarmed noble killed.Just another petty tyrant who got his head handed to him in the end.I loved it when he threw a fit.I just wish there had been a line on the wheel for Hawke.Asking him if he needed a crying towel.

The Arishok wasnt a guest, he didnt come to Kirkwall with the intention to visit the beautiful city. He stranded there and couldnt go back home. Without the tome its like he was banned from Par Vollen.

So what did the viscount? Instead to get in real conversation with the qunari, he was busy to appease everyone. Even as Hawke told him that Petrice and a templar were involved in a intrigue against the qunari, he did nothing. A corrupt magistrate that covers his son, corrupt guards and so many other issues. The viscount? Passive.

What happened was that the patience of the Arishok ended as Hawke told that the tome were lost. At this time the qunari were already 4-6 years in Kirkwall. Now what? Stay there for eternity. Endure all provocation, murdering from the fanatics groups in the city while the viscount is just watching and doing nothing?

Its not like the qunari came over night and invaded Kirkwall without warning. The situation went more and more out of control while the viscount remained passive.

I respect the Arishok. It was not the best decision that he took in the end, but it was a decision that i can comprehend.

Ah...so the Viscount is to blame when the Arishok told him NOTHING about the real reason he was there and LIED about his presence and told him NOTHING about his holy relic being lost.

Seeing the type of person the Viscount was I'd say there was a very high likelyhood that if the Arishok had told him of the problem and said "we aren't leaving without our book and this is all very hush hush." that the viscount would have done everything in his power to help get the book and be rid of the Qunari.  The Arishok ran out of patience alright because he was unbelievably incompetant at acheiving his goal and was too busy setting up poison traps, sticking his nose into kirkwalls affairs and acting superior to find his precious book.

Blaming the Viscount is ridiculous if you ask me.

[Well]

Dormiglione wrote...

Well wrote...

themonty72 wrote...

TO WELL---I see you are comparing my thoughts on the Arishok with skilled seeker. Lets hear your personal thoughts about the Arishok.

Actually I wasn't.I posted my views in the question form.Trying to be a little snarky.Well guess it was a Epic Fail on the snarky part.As far as why do people respect the arishok.I have no idea.He has done nothing to earn respect.He has done plenty to earn contempt.Screw his culture.He is a guest.You dont get to make the rules.Qunari have left him so apparently his leadership skills are lacking.He is like a pampered little princess.It is all about me,myself,and I.He has no honor.That was aparent when he attack the few guards with Hawke.Arishok was mighty brave when he had the unarmed noble killed.Just another petty tyrant who got his head handed to him in the end.I loved it when he threw a fit.I just wish there had been a line on the wheel for Hawke.Asking him if he needed a crying towel.

The Arishok wasnt a guest, he didnt come to Kirkwall with the intention to visit the beautiful city. He stranded there and couldnt go back home. Without the tome its like he was banned from Par Vollen.

So what did the viscount? Instead to get in real conversation with the qunari, he was busy to appease everyone. Even as Hawke told him that Petrice and a templar were involved in a intrigue against the qunari, he did nothing. A corrupt magistrate that covers his son, corrupt guards and so many other issues. The viscount? Passive.

What happened was that the patience of the Arishok ended as Hawke told that the tome were lost. At this time the qunari were already 4-6 years in Kirkwall. Now what? Stay there for eternity. Endure all provocation, murdering from the fanatics groups in the city while the viscount is just watching and doing nothing?

Its not like the qunari came over night and invaded Kirkwall without warning. The situation went more and more out of control while the viscount remained passive.

I respect the Arishok. It was not the best decision that he took in the end, but it was a decision that i can comprehend.

Oh really.He was staying in quarters provided by Viscount.His problems don't matter.Kirkwall doesnt owe him anything .You dont get to move a military force into a city.He is not entiled to be there.So how many caravans were attacked by qunari renegades?That doesnt count?Wasnt he passive?Did he stop them?They had the option to leave at anytime.It isnt Kirkwalls responsibility to cater to them.His not havent his holy book isnt their problem.They don't have to change his diaper or burp him.Sorry the world doesnt revolve around him.He may feel he is entiltled but he aint.
 

[Well]

Speakeasy13 wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Indeed, that's what I've been saying. If someone follows a terrible dogma, then it doesn't matter what other attributes they might have, they deserve absolutely no respect. Many evil people are loyal to their causes.

What do you mean a terrible dogma? Who decides what is a "terrible" dogma? In the words of a skilled debator Adraste can easily be made to seem just as terrible, if not worse than the Qun.

You can't accuse a religion of being "terrible". That's racist.

OMG!Your frelling playing the race card?LMFAO off.

[EmperorSahlertz]

When have a Qunari ever felt entitled to anything?

And they don't tell the Viscount about their true objective because it could potentially do more harm to their cause than help. You don't go tell heretics that your most sacred book is lost somewhere within a city full of fanatics of said heresy. That is just stupid. The less who knows the book is there the better. And the Viscount had certainly not shown to be of the quality required to be let in on the big secret.

[Well]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

When have a Qunari ever felt entitled to anything?

And they don't tell the Viscount about their true objective because it could potentially do more harm to their cause than help. You don't go tell heretics that your most sacred book is lost somewhere within a city full of fanatics of said heresy. That is just stupid. The less who knows the book is there the better. And the Viscount had certainly not shown to be of the quality required to be let in on the big secret.

Apparently the day they moved into the city.Lets see the quality of Arishok.Can't be leadership.Look how many deserted him?Did he stop them from preying on caravans?Nope.Oh wait he spent how many years sitting on his thumbs pouting about the book?Oh those people aren't like me whine whine.Pathetic.I fault the Viscount for not giving the poor baby more diapers.