638 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

Rifneno wrote...

I'll respect that piece of nug crap when he does something worthy of respect. The qun is a disease, and the Arishok is a pustule. Nothing more.

The only thing a culture that thinks it's their right to convert everyone else by way of mass murder and terrorism deserves is death.

I think there's great wisdom in the philosophy of the Qun. However I take issue with their method of conversion.


You can live or you can die. That's called coercion, y'know. -- Cliff Fittir


If they didn't convert people by invasion and conquering and didn't hunt the people who wanted to leave just because they wanted to live a different life, it would be a great philosophy. Also, I abhor their treatment of mages. I'm really curious as to what the Tome of Koslun has written in it and if they're interpreting it wrongly.

[Skilled Seeker]

dragonflight288 wrote...

The only thing a culture that thinks it's their right to convert everyone else by way of mass murder and terrorism deserves is death.

That applies to every culture and race in Thedas.

Not every culture, only the Chantry and the Qun from what we've seen so far. Yes they both deserve death, but the Qun is the more immediate and dangerous threat, and it is the easier one to remove.

[Well]

Dormiglione wrote...

Well wrote...

"I give you that. The Arishok didnt care at all about the Tal Vashoth.
One side of extreme side of the Qun. If you leave the Qun, you are not a
Qunari. For the Qun they are not deserted, they stopped to be Qunari."

Remember after you took out the Tal Vashon Arishok said something to the effect it was their job.Also if you dont accept your position in the Qun your dead.

And the Arishok expressed his respect to Hawke

Well wrote...

As far as Elvina well until the confrontation in the chantry with Petrise she seemed unaware of it.When Hawke let her know know what was going on and Petrise spilled her guts Evina did take action.

She just turned away from petrice but did nothing else. Just passive and observing.

Well wrote...
Yes in act 2 the radicals were stiring but no real visable actions happen till the kidnapping.The ruckus
in the entrance area.Then when Petrise told you about her former bodyguard.The majority I fought were dressed as commoners.Hawke was still on his mission to appease the Qunari.

And the had stolen the qunari poison, killed the qunari guards and killed a lot more innocent humans just to put the qunari in miscredit.

Well wrote...

Da Book.Wasn't it missing from the city for 3 years?Arishok was not actively pursueing it.He was just sitting in his compound feeling self righteous.Polishing his horns or something.Besides the game didnt even allow you(PC) to get the book till the final confrontation.

In the meantime Hawke was counting the stairs in his mansion / estate.

Well wrote...

The Viscount wasn't strong but he was trying to do the best he could.With the mage/templar,radicals,blood mages and qunari.He just had the Guard.Who to me were more like the police.I think I saw one with donuts.

The viscount was trapped in his own political situation. Instead of taking clear action, sending clear messages, he was busy to appease everyone.

The Arishok showed patience. I remember a discussion between him and Hawke about the son of the viscount. Hawke asked him, if he would take advantage of the fact that the son of the viscount converted to the Qun.
The Arishok answered something like this: The Qun could demand that the son of the viscount would be used in some extent to have an advantage for negotiaton. But he (the Arishok) wouldnt do that.

The Arishok showed respect towards the son of the viscount.

Elvina said the Chantry respects the law.That Petrice would have to face up to it.

As far as the poisoning.True.

As far as Hawke just sitting around.True.

The Viscount power was minimum.If he could of got support from the Templars then things might be different.Then again with the Templars aid he could of kicked the Qunari out of his city.I would of never let them in.

The Arishok procrastanated.I don't know if they were playing cards,washing behind their ears or polishing their horns but it was ineffective.

[Porenferser]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

The only thing a culture that thinks it's their right to convert everyone else by way of mass murder and terrorism deserves is death.

That applies to every culture and race in Thedas.

Not every culture, only the Chantry and the Qun from what we've seen so far. Yes they both deserve death, but the Qun is the more immediate and dangerous threat, and it is the easier one to remove.

Not really:huh:

Remember that the Qunari fought all the lands of Thedas together and still managed to get a stalemate.

[Luvinn]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

You can live or you can die. That's called coercion, y'know. -- Cliff Fittir

Star Ocean reference!

I may not like how far the Arishok took things, but it was clear that it was going to come down to either you or them. I mean, what would you do if a mob of people executed some of your brothers and tried to conspire against you every step of the way. To top it off, you have to stay too because if you went home without the book, they would kill you on the spot anyway. To tell the truth, if i was in control of the Qunari, and i lived in a foriegn land where they people were trying to exterminate me, i probably would of done the same thing.

[TEWR]

I agree that he was provoked into doing what he did, and for that I can't fault him. People think he was just sitting on his ass and not looking for the Tome, but he must've been searching just as long as Isabela was considering you fight Qunari in her quest for the book. But since it was a Qunari matter he didn't feel the need to tell anyone else.

I would've done the same thing probably if I was him.

And Star Ocean FTW.

[Skilled Seeker]

Porenferser wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

The only thing a culture that thinks it's their right to convert everyone else by way of mass murder and terrorism deserves is death.

That applies to every culture and race in Thedas.

Not every culture, only the Chantry and the Qun from what we've seen so far. Yes they both deserve death, but the Qun is the more immediate and dangerous threat, and it is the easier one to remove.

Not really:huh:

Remember that the Qunari fought all the lands of Thedas together and still managed to get a stalemate.

Still easier to remove than the Chantry that is established everywhere else in Thedas. And the Qunari lost the war. They can be made to lose again. Also trying to get rid of the Chantry while the Qunari exist will lead to them swooping in amongst the chaos and conquering Thedas. And there is a lot more opposition amongst the population of Thedas for the Qun than the Chantry. Really this is like saying it would be easier to remove Christianity from medieval europe than Islam.

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 05 juin 2011 - 04:08 .

[Crow_22]

oh I don't know why people respect the Arishok. Maybe because he's like Predator from AvP?

Lol, basically he's that and Hannibal mixed. Awesome warrior, strategist, and planner.

[dragonflight288]

Arishok=Stalin

Umm, stalin killed millions of his own citizens and made several disappear. The Arishok doesn't. He has a role, and he acts within it. The Viscount makes the mistake of thinking he's dealing with a politician who can be appeased. Petrice makes the mistake of thinking the Qunari are there to convert people as a challenge to the chantry.

The Arishok was there for a purpose the had nothing to do with Kirkwall other than the tome being there, and he didn't kill his own men, so the stalin comparison doesn't work.

[Skilled Seeker]

Crow_22 wrote...

oh I don't know why people respect the Arishok. Maybe because he's like Predator from AvP?

Lol, basically he's that and Hannibal mixed. Awesome warrior, strategist, and planner.

Yeah really awesome, that's why he fails hard and gets his ass kicked by Hawke.

[Skilled Seeker]

dragonflight288 wrote...
The Arishok was there for a purpose the had nothing to do with Kirkwall other than the tome being there, and he didn't kill his own men, so the stalin comparison doesn't work.

Actually he kills those who disagree with him, just like Stalin, in this case the Tal Vashoth. So the comparision is somewhat valid.

[Porenferser]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Crow_22 wrote...

oh I don't know why people respect the Arishok. Maybe because he's like Predator from AvP?

Lol, basically he's that and Hannibal mixed. Awesome warrior, strategist, and planner.

Yeah really awesome, that's why he fails hard and gets his ass kicked by Hawke.

Well, I let him live...

[Skilled Seeker]

Porenferser wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Crow_22 wrote...

oh I don't know why people respect the Arishok. Maybe because he's like Predator from AvP?

Lol, basically he's that and Hannibal mixed. Awesome warrior, strategist, and planner.

Yeah really awesome, that's why he fails hard and gets his ass kicked by Hawke.

Well, I let him live...

He still fails. If he gets the book, it's by no means a feat of his.

[Dormiglione]

Well wrote...

Elvina said the Chantry respects the law.That Petrice would have to face up to it.

As far as the poisoning.True.

As far as Hawke just sitting around.True.

The Viscount power was minimum.If he could of got support from the Templars then things might be different.Then again with the Templars aid he could of kicked the Qunari out of his city.I would of never let them in.

The Arishok procrastanated.I don't know if they were playing cards,washing behind their ears or polishing their horns but it was ineffective.

The viscount had the authority to go after the nobility who helped the fanatics. He had his guard and could have done that.

Still the Arishok had not take advantage that the son of the viscount converted to the Qun, even if the Qun would demand it. He showed his respect.

[Crow_22]

Well, for one Hawke HAD to win. Lol, it's part of the story. If it wasn't Arishok would kick some ASS!

[Rifneno]

dragonflight288 wrote...

The only thing a culture that thinks it's their right to convert everyone else by way of mass murder and terrorism deserves is death.

That applies to every culture and race in Thedas.

No, it applies only to Andrastians and Qunari. And among Andrastians there's a great many varied beliefs - only extremists believe in conversion by force. The qunari however all believe the same thing: the qun. The qun demands conversion by force. Variance from the strict word of the Qun means you're Tal-Vashoth, target practice.

When's the last time you saw a dwarf try to convert a human or elf to their silly stone religion? They don't even want their own converted kin back, let alone other races. Ditto for the Dalish. They just want to be left the hell alone. There's no conversion by force there, quite the opposite. They don't want other cultures to join them.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I think there's great wisdom in the philosophy of the Qun. However I take issue with their method of conversion.

I see no great wisdom. They've removed a few social problems by all but stripping their people of free will. That's like firing an employee so they won't have to pay income taxes.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I agree that he was provoked into doing what he did,

They had reason to be aggressive with his evil qun. The last time these nations had contact with the qunari, they they waged an unprovoked war themselves and any prisoners who wouldn't convert were literally worked to death as slaves. Now they show up and expect to be treated with flowers and sunshine? **** that, and **** them.

But since it was a Qunari matter he didn't feel the need to tell anyone else.

If you're sleeping on someone else's couch, they damn well DO deserve to know why.

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Porenferser wrote...

Well, I let him live...

He still fails. If he gets the book, it's by no means a feat of his.

And he doesn't keep it. Isabela escapes and steals it back. The Arishok is an incompetent moron as well as a cowardly murdering scum.

[Skilled Seeker]

Lol I didn't know that. He really is incompetent! Honestly if he didn't have an aura of power and wisdom (though he demonstrates none), no one would respect him. Just goes to show how easily people can be fooled and persuaded by body language alone and no substance.

[Well]

Rifneno wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

The only thing a culture that thinks it's their right to convert everyone else by way of mass murder and terrorism deserves is death.

That applies to every culture and race in Thedas.

No, it applies only to Andrastians and Qunari. And among Andrastians there's a great many varied beliefs - only extremists believe in conversion by force. The qunari however all believe the same thing: the qun. The qun demands conversion by force. Variance from the strict word of the Qun means you're Tal-Vashoth, target practice.

When's the last time you saw a dwarf try to convert a human or elf to their silly stone religion? They don't even want their own converted kin back, let alone other races. Ditto for the Dalish. They just want to be left the hell alone. There's no conversion by force there, quite the opposite. They don't want other cultures to join them.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I think there's great wisdom in the philosophy of the Qun. However I take issue with their method of conversion.

I see no great wisdom. They've removed a few social problems by all but stripping their people of free will. That's like firing an employee so they won't have to pay income taxes.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I agree that he was provoked into doing what he did,

They had reason to be aggressive with his evil qun. The last time these nations had contact with the qunari, they they waged an unprovoked war themselves and any prisoners who wouldn't convert were literally worked to death as slaves. Now they show up and expect to be treated with flowers and sunshine? **** that, and **** them.

But since it was a Qunari matter he didn't feel the need to tell anyone else.

If you're sleeping on someone else's couch, they damn well DO deserve to know why.

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Porenferser wrote...

Well, I let him live...

He still fails. If he gets the book, it's by no means a feat of his.

And he doesn't keep it. Isabela escapes and steals it back. The Arishok is an incompetent moron as well as a cowardly murdering scum.

Bravo Bravo

[Well]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Lol I didn't know that. He really is incompetent! Honestly if he didn't have an aura of power and wisdom (though he demonstrates none), no one would respect him. Just goes to show how easily people can be fooled and persuaded by body language alone and no substance.

I always felt he used the.. If you can't dazzle them with brillance baffle them with Bull s### approach.

[Skilled Seeker]

Yeah that's part of the aura of wisdom

[themonty72]

People respected Arishok because he was the sh@@!!!

[Skilled Seeker]

You've just proved our point.

[Porenferser]

And he doesn't keep it. Isabela escapes and steals it back.

Thats the rumor.
Varric doesn't know it for sure and Isabella never returns (as she said).

[Medhia Nox]

"The Arishok is an incompetent moron as well as a cowardly murdering scum. " - Rifneno

Funny - that's what I think about Meredith, Orsino, Viscount Dumas, Elthina, and especially Anders. ((All with varying degrees - Dumas is obviously not a "murdering" scum - he's just a cowardly moron for example. Though I could argue that his incompetency led to plenty of murdering - notable of city guards.))

And to whoever said that "any culture who converts through mass murder and terrorism should be destroyed" (I paraphrase) - I have to wonder what real world country you live in, cause by that definition nearly all nations (and certainly all 1st world nations) are guilty of doing just that to get where they are.

Edit: I forgot to add Hawke to my list of "incompetent, cowardly murdering scum" (less on the cowardly - but rates high on the incompetent murder scum angle)

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 06 juin 2011 - 02:11 .