638 réponses à ce sujet

[Well]

simfamSP wrote...

The Arishock ways are alien to us. That is why we do not understand him. He is neither Muslim, Christian, Jewish etc... he is different. I respect him because of his character, though his decisions were not the wisest, the thorn at his side - The Chantry. Weren't helping anyway.

I think he could have taken the city. If it weren't for Hawke. He had most of the nobles in one room. And the Templars would probably argue with the mages in between all this chaos.

"Yes messengers. He was willing to wait 3+ years doing nothing. He
could have waited a few more months to tell the others of his plans, see
if they agree with him, request reinforcements to successfully invade
Kirkwall. His actions affect all Qunari and he carries great
responsibilty as a result. He should not make such important decisions
in haste without the other leaders of his people having a say."

You are correct, but again, as I've said before. His ways are alien, we would never understand him I think. That's why he's such a great character.

How many elves do you know?Keebler elves dont count.

[KotorEffect3]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Lets see. He ambushes and kills a peaceful diplomatic party when he declares war, something honourable civilized beings would not do. He brutally murders the Viscount, despite the Viscount appeasing him ever since he landed in Kirkwall. Then there's the fact that he declares war at all and decides to take over the city where he is a guest just because he hasn't managed to find an unrelated book and he doesn't like the society. There is no logic at all behind such a move, he had no chance of taking over and this would be viewed as a declaration of war, meaning Thedas would go to war with the Qunari again. He didn't consult with the other 2 leaders of his people over this decision and just got blinded by rage and took matters into his own hands, ultimately leading to his humiliating death or withdrawal and no good accomplished whatsoever, though a serious blow to Qunari reputation and morale.

So why do people respect him?

In some ways I respect him and in some ways I don't, on the one hand he is firm in his convictions and he has a strong sense of honor and integrity.  On the other hand he doesn't respect that he is a guest in a city that isn't his and he is arrogant and narrow minded enough to think that he has a right to change it.  Then again I think the Qun as a philosophy while certain is also narrow and hypocritical.  Yes Kirkwall is a mess but it isn't his place to change it.

[Well]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Lets see. He ambushes and kills a peaceful diplomatic party when he declares war, something honourable civilized beings would not do. He brutally murders the Viscount, despite the Viscount appeasing him ever since he landed in Kirkwall. Then there's the fact that he declares war at all and decides to take over the city where he is a guest just because he hasn't managed to find an unrelated book and he doesn't like the society. There is no logic at all behind such a move, he had no chance of taking over and this would be viewed as a declaration of war, meaning Thedas would go to war with the Qunari again. He didn't consult with the other 2 leaders of his people over this decision and just got blinded by rage and took matters into his own hands, ultimately leading to his humiliating death or withdrawal and no good accomplished whatsoever, though a serious blow to Qunari reputation and morale.

So why do people respect him?

In some ways I respect him and in some ways I don't, on the one hand he is firm in his convictions and he has a strong sense of honor and integrity.  On the other hand he doesn't respect that he is a guest in a city that isn't his and he is arrogant and narrow minded enough to think that he has a right to change it.  Then again I think the Qun as a philosophy while certain is also narrow and hypocritical.  Yes Kirkwall is a mess but it isn't his place to change it.

This keeps getting gloss over by some folks in previous posts.Kirkwall is a mess but apparently so is the Quanari Compound.Look at those Qunari that left to be Tal Vashon.Apparently Arishok isn't doing to good a job as leader.

[NakedKana]

I just wann say one thing: A lot of people keep talking about how the Arishok attacking was stupid because he didn't have the man power to hold Kirkwall. If you read some of the codex entries you find around the place, you'll learn that the Qunari are pretty bad ass. There was a point in time when everybody in Thedas was throwing thier military at them in order to re-claim some land they had taken and collectively they barely made a dent in the Qunari military, even after years of full out assualt. The war only ended because the Quanri didn't like seeing the native people of the land, whom had converted the the Qun, being slaughtered and so called for peace treaty, which only Tiventer didn't sign. I think the Qunari, despite being few in number, could have held at least high town for a good while, so while you may call the Arishok many things, he was not stupid.

I personally liked the Arishok. He was always clear in his intentions, you always knew where you stood with him. I might not agree with the Qun, but I can see the appeal and respect it.

[EmperorSahlertz]

sphinxess wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

The Arishock ways are alien to us. That is why we do not understand him. He is neither Muslim, Christian, Jewish etc... he is different. I respect him because of his character, though his decisions were not the wisest, the thorn at his side - The Chantry. Weren't helping anyway.

I think he could have taken the city. If it weren't for Hawke. He had most of the nobles in one room. And the Templars would probably argue with the mages in between all this chaos.

"Yes messengers. He was willing to wait 3+ years doing nothing. He
could have waited a few more months to tell the others of his plans, see
if they agree with him, request reinforcements to successfully invade
Kirkwall. His actions affect all Qunari and he carries great
responsibilty as a result. He should not make such important decisions
in haste without the other leaders of his people having a say."

You are correct, but again, as I've said before. His ways are alien, we would never understand him I think. That's why he's such a great character.

The only Nobles he has in the room are the ones in that single building he didnt have the forces to sweep the Noble district - their personal guards alone would have handled a few hundred.

His forces last about as long as expected - a few hours once he attacks. I always got the idea it was a intentional suicide once he realizes the book has left the city with Isabela. Its game mechanics that makes Kirkwall look like a town with only 1-2000 people.

A single Qunari squad could probably eradicate the collected nobles' guard without much difficulty. The Qunari are the single most powerful force on Thedas (note I said "on", as I suspect the Darkspawn are more powerful), and won't have much trouble with a few guards. The only trouble the Qunari in Kirkwall had, was Hawke, and his party.

[Porenferser]

One Qunari is a lot stronger then a dozen of medicore city guards, yes.
But I don't think we should overdo it.
A Templar f.e. should be more then a worthy match to a Qunari.

[sphinxess]

The qunari are badass because of their superior technology - see no signs they have much in the compound in Kirkwall. 7 foot tall unarmored giant vs 6 foot tall plate armored Templar - if you think the Qunari would win you have been watching to many kung-fu movies.

Modifié par sphinxess, 11 juin 2011 - 04:53 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Qunari are themselves superior, not only in technology, but also physiology. They can bite through leather, and even steel given time. They don't have to eat for weeks at a time, and they are strong as many men.
Even an unarmored Qunari is able to rip an armored templar apart.

[Well]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Qunari are themselves superior, not only in technology, but also physiology. They can bite through leather, and even steel given time. They don't have to eat for weeks at a time, and they are strong as many men.
Even an unarmored Qunari is able to rip an armored templar apart.

Really and where did you see that?I did see the wardens spank the Qunari.

[sphinxess]

Well wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Qunari are themselves superior, not only in technology, but also physiology. They can bite through leather, and even steel given time. They don't have to eat for weeks at a time, and they are strong as many men.
Even an unarmored Qunari is able to rip an armored templar apart.

Really and where did you see that?I did see the wardens spank the Qunari.

Its kung-fu!  The unarmored monk always beats the armored Samari - funny in real Japan there would have been a pile of dead monks <or Qunari in this case>

Modifié par sphinxess, 11 juin 2011 - 06:16 .

[Well]

I like to read fiction and some of the post are providing ample amounts of it.Lets not let game facts get in the way.It takes away from the entertainment value.

[Crossroads_Wanderer]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Then who gets to decide when vigilantism is okay and when it isn't? Is there a guideline to that, or is it all then just based on someone's gutfeeling? And if there is a guideline, shouldn't it just be incorporated into the law, and then keep the rest of it illegal?
That is the problem with vigilantism.

I gave a perfectly reasonable explanation of when it would be acceptable. It is also an explanation that lines up pretty well with how the courts try cases of citizens taking the law into their own hands. If there is the immediate threat of harm which would not be stopped in time by waiting for law enforcement to show up, or in some other way is something that only you can prevent, vigilantism is acceptable. In any other case, law enforcement would be able to handle the situation, so a citizen would not have to step in and should not step in.

I'm not saying I'm the ultimate authority on the matter, but there has to be a logical system in place. If you've got a better suggestion, I'd like to hear it.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

From a personal point of view I can see the purpose of vigilantism. From a societal point of view however, it is never a good thing.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Well, I'm just too much of a society-supporter to let my own desires and needs "threaten" society, I guess

Then why do you support the Arishok, when he hides vigilantees from justice?

[Dormiglione]

sphinxess wrote...

The qunari are badass because of their superior technology - see no signs they have much in the compound in Kirkwall. 7 foot tall unarmored giant vs 6 foot tall plate armored Templar - if you think the Qunari would win you have been watching to many kung-fu movies.

The physiology of a Qunari is way different than the human on. Templar, Lyrium addicted are the response against a mage, but against a Qunari? A full armored Templar, slow in movement against a qunari in light armor, with his tremendous power and his velocity?
If you want a worthy opponent, then go for a dwarf of the dead legion (warrior with berserk specialization).

[dragonflight288]

Oh yes! Beserker Dwarves are tough. Like Oghren!

Hmm....Oghren vs the Arishok would be a fun fight to watch.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Well wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Qunari are themselves superior, not only in technology, but also physiology. They can bite through leather, and even steel given time. They don't have to eat for weeks at a time, and they are strong as many men.
Even an unarmored Qunari is able to rip an armored templar apart.

Really and where did you see that?I did see the wardens spank the Qunari.

You realize the Wardens were saved by Hawke and his party, right?

[dragonflight288]

Which adds evidence to the Qunari being tougher than mail plated opponents despite not wearing armor.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Crossroads_Wanderer wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Then who gets to decide when vigilantism is okay and when it isn't? Is there a guideline to that, or is it all then just based on someone's gutfeeling? And if there is a guideline, shouldn't it just be incorporated into the law, and then keep the rest of it illegal?
That is the problem with vigilantism.

I gave a perfectly reasonable explanation of when it would be acceptable. It is also an explanation that lines up pretty well with how the courts try cases of citizens taking the law into their own hands. If there is the immediate threat of harm which would not be stopped in time by waiting for law enforcement to show up, or in some other way is something that only you can prevent, vigilantism is acceptable. In any other case, law enforcement would be able to handle the situation, so a citizen would not have to step in and should not step in.

I'm not saying I'm the ultimate authority on the matter, but there has to be a logical system in place. If you've got a better suggestion, I'd like to hear it.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

From a personal point of view I can see the purpose of vigilantism. From a societal point of view however, it is never a good thing.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Well, I'm just too much of a society-supporter to let my own desires and needs "threaten" society, I guess

Then why do you support the Arishok, when he hides vigilantees from justice?

When did I support the Arishok? I'd rather he had given them up, but I understand why he won't and why he can't.

[Well]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Well wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Qunari are themselves superior, not only in technology, but also physiology. They can bite through leather, and even steel given time. They don't have to eat for weeks at a time, and they are strong as many men.
Even an unarmored Qunari is able to rip an armored templar apart.

Really and where did you see that?I did see the wardens spank the Qunari.

You realize the Wardens were saved by Hawke and his party, right?

You do realize you can sit back and watch?Three wardens stomp 6 qunari.No dead wardens.Almost as much fun is  watching the dwarf theives stomp the qunari while you drink your coffee.Maybe it is because my game is a little buggy.This women keeps getting her foot caught in a qunari hand.Since we know qunari don't kidnap folks that must be what is happening.They did kick the guards butts but I noticed a lot of plain unarmed civilians corpse's.Yup those Qunari are tough.I just ran it again to make sure.Been awhile since I played.It was fun dehorning Arishok.He decide to take a dirt nap.Must of been tired.

[dragonflight288]

In addition, during the war against the Qunari in Rivain, it wasn't weakness of body or morale that drove the Qunari away, it was the lack of survivors of a land they conquered. It was no longer worth keeping. They willingly left when the people they were in charge of were pretty much dead, not them or their soldiers.

[Kileyan]

Hanz54321 wrote...

Wardens are superior physical specimens to begin with. Then they take the blood pf the darkspawn and become something beyond human, dwarf or elf.

.

I admit I didn't read every Codex. Is this true?

Honestly I assume the Wardens were just regular guys, no more powerful than they were before. The only thing they gain via the ritual is not fearing Darkspawn blood tainting them instantly, so that they are able to fight them.  I didn't really think  a Grey Warden was any more powerful than any other similar person.

That said, I like the Grey Warden character much more than Hawke. Nothing to do with power, he was just more interesting.

[sphinxess]

dragonflight288 wrote...

In addition, during the war against the Qunari in Rivain, it wasn't weakness of body or morale that drove the Qunari away, it was the lack of survivors of a land they conquered. It was no longer worth keeping. They willingly left when the people they were in charge of were pretty much dead, not them or their soldiers.

Or so they claim - the journal entry is written from their prospective. Though the lands they had conquered with cannons, gunpowder, and steel were retaken when Mages entered the war in large numbers and all they have left is a single city on the mainland and a few islands.

Modifié par sphinxess, 12 juin 2011 - 05:19 .

[Vit246]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Qunari are themselves superior, not only in technology, but also physiology. They can bite through leather, and even steel given time. They don't have to eat for weeks at a time, and they are strong as many men.
Even an unarmored Qunari is able to rip an armored templar apart.

....what the hell are you talking about? Where the hell does that information come from? There is nothing remotely like that in the DA codex or wiki. 

EDIT: Never mind. You got that from Sten. The part about not having to eat for weeks, is there dialogue or proof that Sten was not actually fed at all? And has it occured to you that he might be exaagerating to Morrigan?

Modifié par Vit246, 12 juin 2011 - 05:39 .

[dragonflight288]

Well, wardens do need an exceptional constitution (not the leveling up stat) in order to survive the joining. that may be part of it. And we do know that Wardens change physically to the taint. Losing fertility, increased appetite (in theory....Alistair could just be Alistair, makes sense to me anyway. They need more nourishment as the taint affects their metabolism). Whose to say they don't become physically stronger or more agile based on their training?