638 réponses à ce sujet

[Well]

Hanz54321 wrote...

Wardens are superior physical specimens to begin with. Then they take the blood pf the darkspawn and become something beyond human, dwarf or elf.

So using the Wardens as a basis to guage the qunari physically is really not meaningful.

What you should be using is comparisons to regular soldiers and people, and you should be using actual quotes from the game. IE: Sten lived for 21 days without food or water and returned to combat with no ill effects. The Arishok told you the green poison mist is one of their weapons because while humans are succeptible to poisons, the Qunari are not. Three Exhaulted Marches and the Qunari showed no signs of weakness.

These are the types of things you should draw conclusions about the Qunari strength. Not the Grey Wardens.

Well I used what I had to work with.Ok those unarmed civilians didnt do very good against the Qunari.Just died and left their corpse's there.The guard well they are more like cops.So I can't say how well they would of done against Loghains troops or equivilent.How is that war with Tevinter going?Oh lets not forget the dwarf thieves took out some.I just sat back and let them fight.Then beat the dwarfs.The dwarfs did lose 2 men fighting the qunari.
As far as the wardens.They fought them so I will use them.

[dragonflight288]

I saw a lot of elves turning against Kirkwall to side with the Qunari. You don't get that many elves fighting alongside seemingly immoral and evil beings without having justification. And in a system where elves get no justice at all (even in Ferelden's alienage) the Qun looking at each person for their merits and not their race seems like a very tempting alternative.

[Skilled Seeker]

The elves only worked with the Qunari because they have nowhere to belong and are looking for a cause. They are regected by their own people, the Dalish and generally mistreated by other races. The enemy of my enemy is my friend so they joined them out of mutual benefit. It was not out of love for the Qun. If they were in a better social and economic standing, I guarantee they would not turn to extremists like the Qunari. That's like saying Islamic terrorists are good guys because the youth that join them feel regected by modern society. The terrorists give them a sense of belonging and a cause. There are problems with Thedas' society as has been stated in this thread multiple times, but the Qun certainly is not an answer and Thedas under the Qun would be far worse than it is now.

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 14 juin 2011 - 06:23 .

[dragonflight288]

Good luck convincing elves who receive absolutely no justice at all that the Qunari are in the wrong...without a sword or a bow or magic.

[Netem]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

The elves only worked with the Qunari because they have nowhere to belong and are looking for a cause. They are regected by their own people, the Dalish and generally mistreated by other races. The enemy of my enemy is my friend so they joined them out of mutual benefit. It was not out of love for the Qun. If they were in a better social and economic standing, I guarantee they would not turn to extremists like the Qunari. That's like saying Islamic terrorists are good guys because the youth that join them feel regected by modern society. The terrorists give them a sense of belonging and a cause. There are problems with Thedas' society as has been stated in this thread multiple times, but the Qun certainly is not an answer and Thedas under the Qun would be far worse than it is now.

I thought that was the whole point? Throughout DAO (and especially in the City Elf Origin) we're told how mistreated the elves are; they live walled off and they're not represented in the army nor the nobility, and some humans don't even see them as "human" (Leliana.)

To say that they "only" worked with the Qunari because the rest of society neglects them is pretty harsh, I think -- aside from the Dalish, converting to the Qun is probably one of the fairest deal an elf can get in Thedas.

EDIT
You wrote that "the Qun [is] certainly not the answer", and I just had this mental image of the elves becoming a "client race" to the kossith, á la the Volus and the Turians... 

Modifié par Netem, 15 juin 2011 - 06:53 .

[Dragonella1]

As far as I remember the elves treated their families seriously, so their enthusiasm for the Qun may drop significantly when they are told that they would breed with whom the Qun dictates and their children would be taken from them and raised by Tamassran. But there are good news they would be treated exactly like kossith no discrimination. I think the elves join Qunari only due to ressentiment to get even with humans and they might have nasty surprise when the Qun starts to demand.

[sphinxess]

Dragonella1 wrote...

As far as I remember the elves treated their families seriously, so their enthusiasm for the Qun may drop significantly when they are told that they would breed with whom the Qun dictates and their children would be taken from them and raised by Tamassran. But there are good news they would be treated exactly like kossith no discrimination. I think the elves join Qunari only due to ressentiment to get even with humans and they might have nasty surprise when the Qun starts to demand.

I really wish we could see more of Qunori society. The Arishok comes across as being so certain about the Qun its tough not to respect him and his beliefs. But like you say look at a 12 year old Elf being judged for a life-long position. Is the belief actually that strong? - say they determine Elves on the whole are smarter than they are - are Elves being given all the positions in society that need intelligence or do they come up with a excuse not to? They sure wouldn't give a male Elf any military work as small and weak as they are...

Modifié par sphinxess, 15 juin 2011 - 10:19 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

They could give a male elf who excels at combat a stealthy role within the military, like a scout or assassin (if Qunari even have assassins). The small frames of the Elves certainly makes it easier for them to avoid being spotted than the Kossith rather large and muscular body. An Elf shouldn't expect frontline duty at first however.

[Netem]

Qunari have assassins -- there was one who avenged Saemus in the Chantry.

EDIT
And considering that elves are even smaller than kossith females (who are considered inferior in combat), I don't think you're ever going to see an elven soldier under the Qun.

Modifié par Netem, 15 juin 2011 - 10:44 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Now you are assuming that Qunari judges only on physical attributes. I on the other hand, assume that Qunari judges on both physical and psychological attributes, and that perhaps they have through the ages come to the conclusion that males are simply more aggresive than females, and are therefore better suited for warfare.
And just because they got a small frame does not make them unfit for combat, it merely means they should avoid a brawl. Hence the stealthy part.
But no, there won't be many rank and file Elven Qunari soldiers. What I'm saying however, is that there can be roles within the Qunari military that the Elves will fit perfectly into.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 15 juin 2011 - 11:05 .

[Netem]

I actually agree with you, on all points, though I suppose my previous post wasn't very clear in that regard.  

I mean, there has indeed been ample evidence that the Qunari value all aspects of a person, and take both physical and mental parts into consideration when assigning a person to a role (mages being the exception.)

However, I do confess that I assumed that the only reason soldiers specifically were male was sheer size. I assumed that Qunari, given that they have a breeding program, could probably have made females that were mentally fit for warfare (and there are indeed females within the military, but in administrative positions), but that the physical part of a male was so much further evolved (by nature) that it wasn't considered efficient; Asit tal-eb and all that.

Come to think of it, it's ironic that the philosophy that values innate purpose, or whatever it should be called, is also the philosophy which says that controlling someone's attributes and abilities through breeding is fine.

Modifié par Netem, 15 juin 2011 - 11:42 .

[maxernst]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Now you are assuming that Qunari judges only on physical attributes. I on the other hand, assume that Qunari judges on both physical and psychological attributes, and that perhaps they have through the ages come to the conclusion that males are simply more aggresive than females, and are therefore better suited for warfare.
And just because they got a small frame does not make them unfit for combat, it merely means they should avoid a brawl. Hence the stealthy part.
But no, there won't be many rank and file Elven Qunari soldiers. What I'm saying however, is that there can be roles within the Qunari military that the Elves will fit perfectly into.

Maybe, but although there are quite a few human followers of the Qun in Rivain, we don't see any humans among their soldiers. 

[dragonflight288]

I'm reminded of one of Zevran's and Sten's banters in Origins.

Zevran: Sten, I hear your people have elves leading humans?

Sten: Some of them.

Zevran: Some? How can you tell who?

Sten: Each person is evaluated and given a role based on their merits.

Zevran: And who does the judging?

Sten: The Tamassran carefully considers them and assigns them a role.

Zevran: So elves are higher than humans?

Sten: Some of them.

Zevran: *sigh* It's like talking to a waterwheel.