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[Skilled Seeker]

kromify wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

OK so people say the Arishok believed he had a chance at taking the city. Could they elaborate? I mean the Arishok doesn't even bother creating a hostage situation. Even if by some miracle he succeeded, the other city states in the Free Marches would undoubtably attack Kirkwall.

well he was succeeding until hawke kicked his ass ran away screaming. if hawke hadn't been there it might have gone vey differently.
meredith v arishok anyone?

Hawke delivered the killing blow but he was not needed. The Arishok only had an early advantage due to the element of surprise. Once the city guard, Templars and mages mobilised, he wouldn't have stood a chance.

[Xilizhra]

The death squads aren't qunaries, they are either fanatics/ slavers/ criminals.

Actually, there's one qunari death squad, but they have nothing to do with anything; they're hunting Sketch.

[Huntress]

[quote]Skilled Seeker wrote...

[quote]Huntress wrote...

[quote]Skilled Seeker wrote...

[quote]HogarthHughes 3 wrote...


[/quote]

The death squads aren't qunaries, they are either fanatics/ slavers/ criminals.

You are just seen everything from one side.. and thats not right, the only thing that the qunari wanted was to be left alone, to find the thief with the book and go back to whatever island they live. Everything also that follow was thanks to sister patrice.

[/quote]

lol this is simply not true as I and others have detailed many times in this thread.
[/quote]

Whats not true? The squad of qunari were delegates been capture by sister patrice, a templar and zealot gang , the other group that stop you from entering the qunari camp at the end act 2 is humanoids, not qunari.

[Huntress]

Xilizhra wrote...

The death squads aren't qunaries, they are either fanatics/ slavers/ criminals.

Actually, there's one qunari death squad, but they have nothing to do with anything; they're hunting Sketch.

He said in the "gallows" not by the coast.. or I might read that wrong.. let me check I'll add to this post.

[Skilled Seeker]

Huntress wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The death squads aren't qunaries, they are either fanatics/ slavers/ criminals.

Actually, there's one qunari death squad, but they have nothing to do with anything; they're hunting Sketch.

He said in the "gallows" not by the coast.. or I might read that wrong.. let me check I'll add to this post.

Indeed, in the Gallows.

[Xilizhra]

The kossith you fight on the Wounded Coast in random encounters are Tal-Vashoth, not qunari. There's a bona fide qunari death squad in the Gallows.

[Medhia Nox]

If you think your current, real world government, isn't as scummy as anything the Arishok did - I recommend removing your rose colored glasses.

I liked him because he was a scumbag military commander that thought with his sword...

- seemed better than the effete Viscount who cries about being ineffectual while having the ear of "presumably" the most powerful mover and shaker in Kirkwall (Hawke). Who throws up his hands when anyone in armor carrying a sword wants to declare themselves "the law".

- seemed better than the Lyrium addled psycho Templar who turns into Voltron replete with super-sky backflip action and blazing sword.

- seemed better than the disgusting wretch of a terrorist who finally reveals his extreme narcissism minutes before you're "almost" forced to kill him given the gravity of what he's done.

- seemed better than the totally inactive High Mother Muckity Muck of the Chantry who's only marginally more guilty of being blind about the goings on in Kirkwall than she is about doing nothing about the stuff she is aware of.

They all suck - but the Arishok seemed the least suck of them all. He was a military commander, likely not known for his diplomacy, in a high-tension situation with an important artifact of his nation. The Qunari stopped the war out of convenience for themselves - not the nations of Thedas. The starting of the war was always probably an option...

But, but he doesn't respect the lives of the people in Kirkwall!? Yeah - welcome to what happens when a technologically superior race of people meets an inferior one. Read a history book... it's happened once or - a thousand times.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

OK so people say the Arishok believed he had a chance at taking the city. Could they elaborate? I mean the Arishok doesn't even bother creating a hostage situation. Even if by some miracle he succeeded, the other city states in the Free Marches would undoubtably attack Kirkwall.

I think if he had the brains, he could have held long enough in Hightown for reinforcements to arrive, but that requires knowing how fast and how willing would the Qunari be in starting a war at that moment and reinforcing their position in Kirkwall.

All in all, like everything else in the game, his plan and his execution of it don't make much sense to me. I don't know what he was thinking exactly.

[Skilled Seeker]

Huntress if you're going to blame the fanatics on Kirkwall, then you should blame the aggressive Tal-Vashoth criminals on the Qunari. Fact is the actual governing body of Kirkwall did not act against the Qunari but appeased them. The Qunari governing body however...

[Xilizhra]

But, but he doesn't respect the lives of the people in Kirkwall!? Yeah - welcome to what happens when a technologically superior race of people meets an inferior one. Read a history book... it's happened once or - a thousand times.

Which is why it's oh-so-satisfying to defeat him.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Huntress if you're going to blame the fanatics on Kirkwall, then you should blame the aggressive Tal-Vashoth criminals on the Qunari. Fact is the actual governing body of Kirkwall did not act against the Qunari but appeased them. The Qunari governing body however...

The real governing body of Kirkwall is Meredith. And we don't know how she reacted to the Qunari and if the Arishok even tried to contact her (if he didn't, he's remarkably blind and deaf).

It is entirely possible that Meredith, in her usual incompetence, made it look like she is harboring fanatics like Petrice. But that's speculation on my part.

[Xilizhra]

Since the Arishok wasn't a mage or harboring any, I doubt Meredith could care less.

[Skilled Seeker]

Medhia Nox wrote...

If you think your current, real world government, isn't as scummy as anything the Arishok did - I recommend removing your rose colored glasses.

I liked him because he was a scumbag military commander that thought with his sword...

- seemed better than the effete Viscount who cries about being ineffectual while having the ear of "presumably" the most powerful mover and shaker in Kirkwall (Hawke). Who throws up his hands when anyone in armor carrying a sword wants to declare themselves "the law".

- seemed better than the Lyrium addled psycho Templar who turns into Voltron replete with super-sky backflip action and blazing sword.

- seemed better than the disgusting wretch of a terrorist who finally reveals his extreme narcissism minutes before you're "almost" forced to kill him given the gravity of what he's done.

- seemed better than the totally inactive High Mother Muckity Muck of the Chantry who's only marginally more guilty of being blind about the goings on in Kirkwall than she is about doing nothing about the stuff she is aware of.

They all suck - but the Arishok seemed the least suck of them all. He was a military commander, likely not known for his diplomacy, in a high-tension situation with an important artifact of his nation. The Qunari stopped the war out of convenience for themselves - not the nations of Thedas. The starting of the war was always probably an option...

But, but he doesn't respect the lives of the people in Kirkwall!? Yeah - welcome to what happens when a technologically superior race of people meets an inferior one. Read a history book... it's happened once or - a thousand times.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. I never bought real life history into this or said that such acts haven't happened in real life. I fail to see how your post is supposed to convince me to respect the Arishok.

[Huntress]

Is that the same qunari asking for the book? the one who ask Isabela to return the book?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Xilizhra wrote...

Since the Arishok wasn't a mage or harboring any, I doubt Meredith could care less.

So the de facto ruler of Kirkwall does not care about an armed force of Qunari "heathens" with undeclared intentions and devastating weapons, neither does she care about the implications of what the fanatics amongst her own rank are doing?

Her incompetence is fascinating.

[Skilled Seeker]

Filament wrote...

Maybe he did it because the Qun demanded it regardless of his chance of victory (which I'm not so sure is 'none', maybe he only intended to occupy until he found the book, maybe he was sending for reinforcements, etc). In Bushido they committed ritual suicide to restore their honor, maybe serving the Qun in this way is his way of making up for losing the book. (though that doesn't sound very pragmatic I suppose)

This brings up an interesting point. For a philosophy that values efficiency above all else, why does the Qun demand that this book be found? I'm sure they have copies of it's teachings since this is the book that brought about the Qun. The book itself is meaningless and carries nothing more than sentimental value. The whole idea of spending all this time and resources to track it down goes against the teachings of the Qun.

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 24 mai 2011 - 11:34 .

[Medhia Nox]

I don't believe your initial question was a request to convince you - nor am I interested in convincing a stranger on the internet of anything. You asked why I "respect" the Arishok.

Given what I do know about real life history - I can respect the Arishok more as a mindless military commander who responded to the situation he was put in in the only manner he knows how.

I cannot respect those other characters because I feel like 1) They're fantasy slop. 2) They're irrational representations of real world ideas "Usually polluted with sloppy fantasy."

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skilled Seeker wrote...
This brings up an interesting point. For a philosophy that values efficiency above all else, why does the Qun demand that this book be found? I'm sure they have copies of it's teachings since this is the book that brought about the Qun. The book itself is meaningless and carries nothing more than sentimental value. The whole idea of spending all this time and resources to track it down goes against the teachings of the Qun.

They needed a reason to have the Qunari in Kirkwall without having to start a war. So they resorted to this cheap excuse.

[Skilled Seeker]

Medhia Nox wrote...
Given what I do know about real life history - I can respect the Arishok more as a mindless military commander who responded to the situation he was put in in the only manner he knows how.

A suicidal hissy fit?

[Xilizhra]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Since the Arishok wasn't a mage or harboring any, I doubt Meredith could care less.

So the de facto ruler of Kirkwall does not care about an armed force of Qunari "heathens" with undeclared intentions and devastating weapons, neither does she care about the implications of what the fanatics amongst her own rank are doing?

Her incompetence is fascinating.

She seems even more obsessed with mages than Anders, almost. I think it's interesting that her attitude during the qunari siege seemed to be annoyance, as if she resented being forced to leave the Gallows.

[TJPags]

Because he's the only one who saw what a cesspool of idiocy Kirkwall and those in it were. And was willing to do something about it.

[KnightofPhoenix]

TJPags wrote...

Because he's the only one who saw what a cesspool of idiocy Kirkwall and those in it were. And was willing to do something about it.

But turned out to be an idiot himself.

[Huntress]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Huntress if you're going to blame the fanatics on Kirkwall, then you should blame the aggressive Tal-Vashoth criminals on the Qunari. Fact is the actual governing body of Kirkwall did not act against the Qunari but appeased them. The Qunari governing body however...

I blame? I just tell you the truth, why one thing go to the next and so on, you just are looking thru a very small hole and not seen the big picture,  the goverment in kirkwall was weak, because Meredith and mages were at war even before act 3, Viscount tell you about that:
"Meredith at my back, Orsino at my heels, the only thing that keep valance is the Qunari because they ask nothing"

Am not saying I love the qunari or what they represent, am just saying the why they attacked and I always kill him in duels.

If you don't want to see both sides of the coin is upto you, but do not try to blame them for everything because thats not true.

[Amagoi]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Amagoi wrote...
Respect is like anything else, it's subjective. But the fact that he causes a thread like this definatly shows that he was a great villian. I hope we get more in that style of Immovable Object vs Unstoppable Force.

I thought he was more of an antagonist than a villain.

The villain in DA2 is Kirkwall, with its strange affects on IQ and sanity.

Ahh, you're right about that. Thanks for the correction. I meant that we needed more antagonists that were likable. I sometimes still get villian/antagonist mixed up as interchangable.

Xilizhra wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Since the Arishok wasn't a mage or harboring any, I doubt Meredith could care less.

So
the de facto ruler of Kirkwall does not care about an armed force of
Qunari "heathens" with undeclared intentions and devastating weapons,
neither does she care about the implications of what the fanatics
amongst her own rank are doing?

Her incompetence is fascinating.

She
seems even more obsessed with mages than Anders, almost. I think it's
interesting that her attitude during the qunari siege seemed to be
annoyance, as if she resented being forced to leave the Gallows.

That was another thing that bothered me about Meredith. Even with Qunari hurling spears at them, she's still obsessed with the mages not being allowed to do anything. Except for Plot Armor'd Hawke.

I think that's why I'm a little burnt out on Mages vs Templars. Anders and Meredith were both so single-minded about that, it was a bit hammered. But that's just my opinion and a bit off topic.

Back on track, in what way does Ari become an idiot? By attacking Kirkwall? True, it may have been smarter to just race after the book and leave Kirkwall to destroy itself like we all knew it would, but that was a very emotionally charged situation.