638 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

I still say Petrice was more or less right... she just went about things poorly (given that she's a sister/mother and not a strategist, this is understandable). And killing Seamus did go rather too far.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Amagoi wrote...
Back on track, in what way does Ari become an idiot? By attacking Kirkwall? True, it may have been smarter to just race after the book and leave Kirkwall to destroy itself like we all knew it would, but that was a very emotionally charged situation.

For attacking Kirkwall in the first place yes, but for also having a bad plan in attacking it, with no clear objectives (or it's not clear how beneficial they are).

[Skilled Seeker]

Huntress wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Huntress if you're going to blame the fanatics on Kirkwall, then you should blame the aggressive Tal-Vashoth criminals on the Qunari. Fact is the actual governing body of Kirkwall did not act against the Qunari but appeased them. The Qunari governing body however...

I blame? I just tell you the truth, why one thing go to the next and so on, you just are looking thru a very small hole and not seen the big picture,  the goverment in kirkwall was weak, because Meredith and mages were at war even before act 3, Viscount tell you about that:
"Meredith at my back, Orsino at my heels, the only thing that keep valance is the Qunari because they ask nothing"

Am not saying I love the qunari or what they represent, am just saying the why they attacked and I always kill him in duels.

If you don't want to see both sides of the coin is upto you, but do not try to blame them for everything because thats not true.

I know exactly why they attacked. I didn't say they are soley to blame. I don't agree with their justification however and I do not see how their actions earn your respect. If they descend to the same level of the murderous fanatics that caused them trouble, then they are no better than the murderous fanatics and I'll treat them like murderous fanatics.

Because frankly the whole invasion comes off as a ragequit on the Arishok's part and leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 25 mai 2011 - 12:01 .

[Rifneno]

Xilizhra wrote...

I still say Petrice was more or less right... she just went about things poorly (given that she's a sister/mother and not a strategist, this is understandable). And killing Seamus did go rather too far.

Pretty much.  Qunari are the posterboys for racism, because they are all the same.  Anyone that's different, anyone that thinks for themselves and disagrees with the murderous qun, is labeled Tal-Vashoth.

[Xilizhra]

Rifneno wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I still say Petrice was more or less right... she just went about things poorly (given that she's a sister/mother and not a strategist, this is understandable). And killing Seamus did go rather too far.

Pretty much.  Qunari are the posterboys for racism, because they are all the same.  Anyone that's different, anyone that thinks for themselves and disagrees with the murderous qun, is labeled Tal-Vashoth.

That's more culturalism than racism, really. I doubt that all kossith are naturally the same (though if they are, the Qun works better for them than it would for humans and others).

[TJPags]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Because he's the only one who saw what a cesspool of idiocy Kirkwall and those in it were. And was willing to do something about it.

But turned out to be an idiot himself.

DId he?  How so?

[Skilled Seeker]

Obviously not all the kossith are the same or you wouldn't get Tal Vashoth. Now if only we encountered a Tal Vashoth that isn't a merc or a criminal we need to kill.

[Rifneno]

Xilizhra wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I still say Petrice was more or less right... she just went about things poorly (given that she's a sister/mother and not a strategist, this is understandable). And killing Seamus did go rather too far.

Pretty much.  Qunari are the posterboys for racism, because they are all the same.  Anyone that's different, anyone that thinks for themselves and disagrees with the murderous qun, is labeled Tal-Vashoth.

That's more culturalism than racism, really. I doubt that all kossith are naturally the same (though if they are, the Qun works better for them than it would for humans and others).

Indeed, I have wondered whether kossith actually have emotions in the same sense that we do.  Alistair said it best when he said he's not sure if "regret" means the same thing to Sten as it does to them.  Anyway, I guess it's more a religion than a culture.  Pretty sure the qun counts as a religion, if for no other reason than it clearly seems to preclude the ability to follow a religion that worships a deity.

[Skilled Seeker]

TJPags wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Because he's the only one who saw what a cesspool of idiocy Kirkwall and those in it were. And was willing to do something about it.

But turned out to be an idiot himself.

DId he?  How so?

Have you been reading this thread at all? His idiocy has been brought up many times now.

[Skilled Seeker]

Rifneno wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I still say Petrice was more or less right... she just went about things poorly (given that she's a sister/mother and not a strategist, this is understandable). And killing Seamus did go rather too far.

Pretty much.  Qunari are the posterboys for racism, because they are all the same.  Anyone that's different, anyone that thinks for themselves and disagrees with the murderous qun, is labeled Tal-Vashoth.

That's more culturalism than racism, really. I doubt that all kossith are naturally the same (though if they are, the Qun works better for them than it would for humans and others).

Indeed, I have wondered whether kossith actually have emotions in the same sense that we do.  Alistair said it best when he said he's not sure if "regret" means the same thing to Sten as it does to them.  Anyway, I guess it's more a religion than a culture.  Pretty sure the qun counts as a religion, if for no other reason than it clearly seems to preclude the ability to follow a religion that worships a deity.

It's not a religion, it's a philosophy and way of life. They don't worship any deity I believe and their book isn't divine.

[KnightofPhoenix]

TJPags wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Because he's the only one who saw what a cesspool of idiocy Kirkwall and those in it were. And was willing to do something about it.

But turned out to be an idiot himself.

DId he?  How so?

For risking war with no clear objectives. He says he wants to purify Kirkwall, but when presented with the tome he leaves and doesn't care anymore. So how was his plan related to the Tome? Or did he forget about the Tome? Wasn't it supposed to be very important? 

For not using explosives and gas, specifically against the gallows.

More importantly, for not taking advantage of this:
"People in Hightown feel safe, not because the city's walls are impregnable, but because an invader would
need to scale the stairs from Lowtown in order to reach them. Many bloody battles have been fought on those narrow stairs, and in several wars Hightown has held out for months after Lowtown was taken."

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 25 mai 2011 - 12:08 .

[Huntress]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Huntress wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Huntress if you're going to blame the fanatics on Kirkwall, then you should blame the aggressive Tal-Vashoth criminals on the Qunari. Fact is the actual governing body of Kirkwall did not act against the Qunari but appeased them. The Qunari governing body however...

I blame? I just tell you the truth, why one thing go to the next and so on, you just are looking thru a very small hole and not seen the big picture,  the goverment in kirkwall was weak, because Meredith and mages were at war even before act 3, Viscount tell you about that:
"Meredith at my back, Orsino at my heels, the only thing that keep valance is the Qunari because they ask nothing"

Am not saying I love the qunari or what they represent, am just saying the why they attacked and I always kill him in duels.

If you don't want to see both sides of the coin is upto you, but do not try to blame them for everything because thats not true.

I know exactly why they attacked. I didn't say they are soley to blame. I don't agree with their justification however and I do not see how their actions earn your respect. If they descend to the same level of the murderous fanatics that caused them trouble, then they are no better than the murderous fanatics and I'll treat them like murderous fanatics.

I respect them for what they are and thats more that what I feel for what sister patrice represent/chantry for what stand for/circles for what they actually are.

Arishock do not descend to the same level as them, he tryed to " save" the city by converting the Rich and powerful people of kirkwall, smart or dumb doesn't matter, he thought he was doing a favor for them/to them.

Any way I think the people of kirkwall deserved better.. My mage as Viscount for exemple

[Xilizhra]

Indeed, I have wondered whether kossith actually have emotions in the same sense that we do. Alistair said it best when he said he's not sure if "regret" means the same thing to Sten as it does to them. Anyway, I guess it's more a religion than a culture. Pretty sure the qun counts as a religion, if for no other reason than it clearly seems to preclude the ability to follow a religion that worships a deity.

The Qun is a religion, a government, and everything else, really. I doubt it can just be said to be a "religion."

[Rifneno]

Xilizhra wrote...

Indeed, I have wondered whether kossith actually have emotions in the same sense that we do. Alistair said it best when he said he's not sure if "regret" means the same thing to Sten as it does to them. Anyway, I guess it's more a religion than a culture. Pretty sure the qun counts as a religion, if for no other reason than it clearly seems to preclude the ability to follow a religion that worships a deity.

The Qun is a religion, a government, and everything else, really. I doubt it can just be said to be a "religion."

Okay.  How about we go with "a pestilence?"

[Xilizhra]

Rifneno wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Indeed, I have wondered whether kossith actually have emotions in the same sense that we do. Alistair said it best when he said he's not sure if "regret" means the same thing to Sten as it does to them. Anyway, I guess it's more a religion than a culture. Pretty sure the qun counts as a religion, if for no other reason than it clearly seems to preclude the ability to follow a religion that worships a deity.

The Qun is a religion, a government, and everything else, really. I doubt it can just be said to be a "religion."

Okay.  How about we go with "a pestilence?"

You could say that. However... to be honest, if the Chantry wins this mage war, I think I'll just join the Qun.

[TJPags]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

TJPags wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Because he's the only one who saw what a cesspool of idiocy Kirkwall and those in it were. And was willing to do something about it.

But turned out to be an idiot himself.

DId he?  How so?

For risking war with no clear objectives. He says he wants to purify Kirkwall, but when presented with the tome he leaves and doesn't care anymore. So how was his plan related to the Tome? Or did he forget about the Tome? Wasn't it supposed to be very important? 

For not using explosives and gas, specifically against the gallows.

More importantly, for not taking advantage of this:
"People in Hightown feel safe, not because the city's walls are impregnable, but because an invader would
need to scale the stairs from Lowtown in order to reach them. Many bloody battles have been fought on those narrow stairs, and in several wars Hightown has held out for months after Lowtown was taken."

Hmm.  Interesting.

See, I'm not convinced the attack was about the Tome. Clearly, he was there for the Tome, but just as clearly, they weren't finding it.  I think the attack was more of a "this place is a cesspool, and we're never going to find the Tome without fixing it, and now they've annoyed me enough to do it".  The Tome was still the primary objective, the attack just a stepping stone for it.  I think  that, has the Tome not amazingly shown up with Isabela, he'd have held the City and done more.

I do agree he should have gone after the Gallows fast and hard.  However, it's possible he felt his mages and the black powder (the Qunari names for those escape me, sorry) would deal with the mages, once he had the rest of the City under control.

[Skilled Seeker]

Huntress wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Huntress wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Huntress if you're going to blame the fanatics on Kirkwall, then you should blame the aggressive Tal-Vashoth criminals on the Qunari. Fact is the actual governing body of Kirkwall did not act against the Qunari but appeased them. The Qunari governing body however...

I blame? I just tell you the truth, why one thing go to the next and so on, you just are looking thru a very small hole and not seen the big picture,  the goverment in kirkwall was weak, because Meredith and mages were at war even before act 3, Viscount tell you about that:
"Meredith at my back, Orsino at my heels, the only thing that keep valance is the Qunari because they ask nothing"

Am not saying I love the qunari or what they represent, am just saying the why they attacked and I always kill him in duels.

If you don't want to see both sides of the coin is upto you, but do not try to blame them for everything because thats not true.

I know exactly why they attacked. I didn't say they are soley to blame. I don't agree with their justification however and I do not see how their actions earn your respect. If they descend to the same level of the murderous fanatics that caused them trouble, then they are no better than the murderous fanatics and I'll treat them like murderous fanatics.

I respect them for what they are and thats more that what I feel for what sister patrice represent/chantry for what stand for/circles for what they actually are.

Arishock do not descend to the same level as them, he tryed to " save" the city by converting the Rich and powerful people of kirkwall, smart or dumb doesn't matter, he thought he was doing a favor for them/to them.

Any way I think the people of kirkwall deserved better.. My mage as Viscount for exemple

Well I'm sure Sister Petrice believed she was saving Kirkwall. That's not an excuse for their foolish actions.

[Newnation]

kromify wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

OK so people say the Arishok believed he had a chance at taking the city. Could they elaborate? I mean the Arishok doesn't even bother creating a hostage situation. Even if by some miracle he succeeded, the other city states in the Free Marches would undoubtably attack Kirkwall.

well he was succeeding until hawke kicked his ass ran away screaming. if hawke hadn't been there it might have gone vey differently.
meredith v arishok anyone?

I agree with this. If Hawke were not there the Arishok would have had Kirkwall. He had all of the city's nobles there and got rid of the viscount. He was very strategic when he stormed the city. His only fault was he didn't kill Hawke when he had the chance in his compound. Had Hawke not been there it would be debatable if Orsino, Meredith, and the city guard could have gotten on the same page long enough to stop him.

[Skilled Seeker]

Newnation wrote...

kromify wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

OK so people say the Arishok believed he had a chance at taking the city. Could they elaborate? I mean the Arishok doesn't even bother creating a hostage situation. Even if by some miracle he succeeded, the other city states in the Free Marches would undoubtably attack Kirkwall.

well he was succeeding until hawke kicked his ass ran away screaming. if hawke hadn't been there it might have gone vey differently.
meredith v arishok anyone?

I agree with this. If Hawke were not there the Arishok would have had Kirkwall. He had all of the city's nobles there and got rid of the viscount. He was very strategic when he stormed the city. His only fault was he didn't kill Hawke when he had the chance in his compound. Had Hawke not been there it would be debatable if Orsino, Meredith, and the city guard could have gotten on the same page long enough to stop him.

I will redirect you to my previous answer:

'Hawke delivered the killing blow but he was not needed. The Arishok only had an early advantage due to the element of surprise. Once the city guard, Templars and mages mobilised, he wouldn't have stood a chance. '

He may have gathered the nobles but he didn't act against them. You can attack him directly and none of them are killed. Furthermore, had he created a hostage situation, that doesn't mean he would gain control of Kirkwall. I'm sure Meredith would rather have all the poncy nobles killed than surrender to the Qun.

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 25 mai 2011 - 12:22 .

[Rifneno]

Xilizhra wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Indeed, I have wondered whether kossith actually have emotions in the same sense that we do. Alistair said it best when he said he's not sure if "regret" means the same thing to Sten as it does to them. Anyway, I guess it's more a religion than a culture. Pretty sure the qun counts as a religion, if for no other reason than it clearly seems to preclude the ability to follow a religion that worships a deity.

The Qun is a religion, a government, and everything else, really. I doubt it can just be said to be a "religion."

Okay.  How about we go with "a pestilence?"

You could say that. However... to be honest, if the Chantry wins this mage war, I think I'll just join the Qun.

If the Taliban Chantry wins this war, I'll join the darkspawn.  There is clearly no saving sentient life on Thedas.

[Xilizhra]

And if the darkspawn are sentient now?

[Skilled Seeker]

Everyone's an ass.hole.

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 25 mai 2011 - 12:25 .

[Newnation]

Meredith and Orsino couldn't even agree on what strategy to use to get to the Arishok without Hawke so I doubt they could have successfully mobilized their groups together to take back the city. Also, the Arishok was planning on converting the nobles and if they refused he was going to kill them.

[KnightofPhoenix]

TJPags wrote...
See, I'm not convinced the attack was about the Tome. Clearly, he was there for the Tome, but just as clearly, they weren't finding it.  I think the attack was more of a "this place is a cesspool, and we're never going to find the Tome without fixing it, and now they've annoyed me enough to do it".  The Tome was still the primary objective, the attack just a stepping stone for it.  I think  that, has the Tome not amazingly shown up with Isabela, he'd have held the City and done more.

By the end, he was surrounded  in the Viscount's Office without even trying to fortify the stairs leading up to Hightown.

How was the attack a stepping stone for it? Did he think that the rest of Thedas was going to give him the time he needs to find it? Seems to me that he'd be diverting his resources more on holding the city than finding the tome, which he had 3 years to do and failed.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 25 mai 2011 - 12:36 .

[Skilled Seeker]

Face it peeps, Arishok did an epic fail on multiple accounts. He deserves no respect.

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 25 mai 2011 - 12:35 .