638 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

The DA universe has discrimination in it. Picking on one race for their discrimination without acknowledging that it's rampant in the setting is unfair. In fact, the fantasy racism is one of the things I really like about this series. I wish they'd go into it more.

Many, many people in the DA universe suck. However, the qunari simply have a great deal of concentrated suckage.

[Rifneno]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Nice insult, dude.

We know nothing about the crime. Is it just this one elf's word against the guard? Or is there more evidence and the guard not acting because the victim was a minority? We don't know. We know the guard weren't interested in the crime until the elves went Qunari.

Convient timing there.

But there was no investigation into it at all. That's why the victim's brothers went vigilante because the guard didn't care. And they never do in this game. Look at the serial killer in Acts 1 and 2, there's one Templar who knows there's something wrong and every guard in Kirkwall uncaring or completely disbeliving.

They do their patrols and fight ninja encounters actual investigations and running down leads? Nah, that's for Hawke to do.

Yeah, I guess I came off harsher than I meant there. I apologize for that. Back to the subject at hand, you can ask Aveline about it and she'll say she knows about it but there simply isn't any proof. And I find it hard to argue that. What proof *would* there be? Even in this day and age when we can tell conclusively that X had sex with Y, a great number of rape cases turn out to be consensual encounters that Y is lying about. What proof would there be? Short of unbiased eyewitnesses or those type of accusations being commonplace against that particular guard, what proof is there going to be? It's a horrible crime he's being accused of, and convicting him for it would be ruining his life. The guard (or courts) would be committing a horrible thing themselves if they convicted people without more than an accusations.

As for the Quentin thing, I agree that was a *massive* failure on the part of the guard. Especially Aveline. But it wasn't because there was a grand conspiracy to protect him, or because they didn't at least try to investigate. It just fell under the "everyone in Kirkwall sucks at everything" rule. If Quentin himself didn't suck at hiding, he'd probably still be stitching together a zombie harem.

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

You know, when you say things like this, there really isn't much I can see your posts as but an attempt to troll.

Funny, I thought the same thing when I saw you lying about people saying Elthina got what was coming to her for "not wanting to pick sides" when we've clarified over, and over, and over, and over, and over that it's because she refused to enforce the Chantry's own law.  I guess you could pretty it up saying it's a straw man, but let's call it what it is: you lying.

But back to the qunari.  What we've seen of the qunari is a total disregard for anyone not of their worthless qun.  They care absolutely nothing for the lives of anyone that disagrees with them, and the only choice they believe anyone should be given in life is whether they want to actually live, which to them means doing exactly what "the qun" demands for their their entire lives.  The treatment of their own mages looks like something out of a **** concentration camp.  They have a disdain for freedom that would appall Stalin. They signed a treaty fully intending to break it once they feel they can conquer the rest of Thedas. At least, all of this is what I've gotten from the Arishok (and to a minor extent, Sten in DAO). If this is true, yes, I totally support genocide. Because it IS "us or them." The qun demands it.

Lastly, qunari =/= kossith.

Zeevico wrote...

I'm not saying that I think the Arishok is wrong. I just think it's inconsistent for the Saarebas' handler to attack Hawke for this reason while the Arishok does not.

Ahh, that. Well that can attributed to the fact the Arishok didn't know that Ketojan spoke to Hawke. I think there's an option to say he killed himself rather than return, but you could say he figured Hawke only knew that because Ketojan nuked himself rather than being told so with words. Or perhaps it's not the Arishok's job under the qun to give a damn about possibly possessed foreigners, only an aravaard's. Like sarcastic Hawke says to Faynriel, "at least if you go nuts and start killing people, it'll only be among the Dalish."

[Xilizhra]

Even in this day and age when we can tell conclusively that X had sex with Y, a great number of rape cases turn out to be consensual encounters that Y is lying about.

Far less than some believe. Given Aveline's idiocy in regards to Quentin, I really am inclined to side with the elves on this one; she's way too hardheaded about solid proof.
Plus, why would accusations about raping a knife-ear ruin someone's life in Kirkwall? They only do in societies that suck much less than this one.

[Beerfish]

It matters nothing at all about the elves. The guard screwed up or were biased and didn't arrest the guy. The elves took the law into their own hands and killed the offender. They are liable for murder, but no, not according to the Arishoks justice. It was yet another blatant move by the Arishok to knowingly thumb his nose at the laws of kirkwall. If you become part of the Qun all is forgiven no matter what you do and yet he excuses the Tal Vashoth actions...well because they are no longer part of the Qun. Both he and the Qun are as two faced as you can get, or perhaps there is nothing wrong with the Qun but the Arishok is just misrepresenting it.

Re Aveline, I think through the game you can conclude that she is a very good guard captain but not so good of an investigator and is at times limited in what she can do. (As opposed to Hawke who just waltzes around doing what he/she wants.) In anycase you can't excuse the crime by saying that the guards should have figured it out.

[Xilizhra]

Well, they should have. I disagree with the Arishok on almost everything, but it's somewhat tragic to have the war started over what might be the one thing we do agree on; expecting everyone to abide by the law when the rule of law is broken as it is is silly.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Rifneno wrote...

Funny, I thought the same thing when I saw you lying about people saying Elthina got what was coming to her for "not wanting to pick sides" when we've clarified over, and over, and over, and over, and over that it's because she refused to enforce the Chantry's own law.  I guess you could pretty it up saying it's a straw man, but let's call it what it is: you lying.

Phoenix_Loftian wrote...

I certainly was. The Grand Cleric
is the most useless person there. Not only did she not watch her
lunatic fringe groups carefully, she didn't try to take a stand for
anything. You could say it was due to her religious beliefs but if that
were true she would've been more firm in remaining neutral to the
politics around Kirkwall.

What does she do? Absolutely nothing. All she ever offered anyone were a bunch of empty anaologies about the Maker.

Maybe
some of you might disagree, but I think even a religion needs to take a
stand in conflicts like that. The Chantry was just hypocritically
ignoring atrocities and turning about face to their own involvement in
some instances. The Grand Cleric didn't bother doing a thing. She just
strikes me as irresponsible and two-faced behind that kind smile.

She's
a coward and I'm glad Anders was able to make use of her. After all, in
politics, if you're not going to get more power then you can sure as
hell bet that someone else will. It's partly because the Chantry didn't
take a stand that the situation deteriorated as it did.

This post from the other thread was mostly what I was refering to. Even if I wasn't though, the basic principle is the same. Elthina refusing to enforce Chantry law is becasue she is no longer able to control the Templars, at least like she's supposed to be able to. Elthina makes it pretty clear if Hawke asks her to intervene at the beggining of Act 3 that Hawke seems to overestimate her influence. Even some of the Templars regard Elthina as if she hasn't taken a side. Cullen insists that she is bound by faith and duty to support them but also says that her actions imply she's not chosen a side to support in the conflict. Her inaction (whatever it's cause) made herself a bystander.

Rifneno wrote...

But back to the qunari.  What we've seen of the qunari is a total disregard for anyone not of their worthless qun.  They care absolutely nothing for the lives of anyone that disagrees with them, and the only choice they believe anyone should be given in life is whether they want to actually live, which to them means doing exactly what "the qun" demands for their their entire lives.  The treatment of their own mages looks like something out of a **** concentration camp.  They have a disdain for freedom that would appall Stalin. They signed a treaty fully intending to break it once they feel they can conquer the rest of Thedas. At least, all of this is what I've gotten from the Arishok (and to a minor extent, Sten in DAO). If this is true, yes, I totally support genocide. Because it IS "us or them." The qun demands it.

Lastly, qunari =/= kossith.

We don't actually know much of what is specifically in the Qun because the games have only released a few verses from it. But we do know that the Qunari have created the most technologically advanced and effective society in Thedas. Do I agree with everything or even most of what they do? Of course not. But it's clearly superior to the rest of the societies in Thedas in several ways, not the least of which is the fact that it's a culture that is free of racism like all the human societies are. The idea of one's place in the Qun is that people should have the profession they are best at.

As for how they regard those not of Qun, it's not specifically unbeleivers who they treat with disdain, it's people who have not earned their respect. The Arishok had less of a problem telling Hawke why he was in Kirkwall because he respected him or her more. But even if what you said about them is all true, saying that the entire people should be wiped out is such a staggeringly digusting thing to say, that I don't think there is anything else you could have said to sound more like a troll than that if you tried. I suppose it doesn't really matter, I think I'll just bow out of the discussion, saying that is such an indefensible postion to me that I don't see any point for either of us to continue talking about it.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 26 mai 2011 - 11:15 .

[Abispa]

EDIT: Deleted stupid comment. I'll make sure not to leave my computer open to forum again when I'm out.

Modifié par Abispa, 27 mai 2011 - 11:55 .

[Xilizhra]

We don't actually know much of what is specifically in the Qun because the games have only released a few verses from it. But we do know that the Qunari have created the most technologically advanced and effective society in Thedas. Do I agree with everything or even most of what they do? Of course not. But it's clearly superior to the rest of the societies in Thedas in several ways, not the least of which is the fact that it's a culture that is free of racism like all the human societies are. The idea of one's place in the Qun is that people should have the profession they are best at.

So it replaces racism (and considering the saar-qamek, even that seems sketchy) with sexism, slavery to the state, and religious intolerance murderous towards everyone else. Not to mention the Saarebas thing; magically, qunari society is far less advanced.

As for how they regard those not of Qun, it's not specifically unbeleivers who they treat with disdain, it's people who have not earned their respect. The Arishok had less of a problem telling Hawke why he was in Kirkwall because he respected him or her more. But even if what you said about them is all true, saying that the entire people should be wiped out is such a staggeringly digusting thing to say, that I don't think there is anything else you could have said to sound more like a troll than that if you tried. I suppose it doesn't really matter, I think I'll just bow out of the discussion, saying that is such an indefensible postion to me that I don't see any point for either of us to continue talking about it.

Note that the official position on all nonbelievers is "convert, die, or be mindraped." Also, one doesn't have to eliminate the kossith race to prevent the Qun from expanding.

[Rifneno]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

We don't actually know much of what is specifically in the Qun because the games have only released a few verses from it. But we do know that the Qunari have created the most technologically advanced and effective society in Thedas. Do I agree with everything or even most of what they do? Of course not. But it's clearly superior to the rest of the societies in Thedas in several ways, not the least of which is the fact that it's a culture that is free of racism like all the human societies are. The idea of one's place in the Qun is that people should have the profession they are best at.

1. We know enough. I don't care in the least how the qun demands gardening should be done. Once again, the qun demands it's "us or them." I choose us. What was it Shepard said about the Thorian? Something along the lines of "The only reason to study something like that is to figure out how to kill it."

2. Free of racism. Did you actually just say that? Holy ****. They want to kill everyone who wants to any sort of freedom, and even if you do follow their savage ways, if you happen to be born the wrong way they... I don't even know how to describe the atrocities they commit against their mages. Perfect wording though, free of racism. General prejudice though, they're only matched by the ****s.

3. It's called Totalitarism. Read about it here: http://en.wikipedia....ki/Totalitarism And those two pictures on the right? That's Joseph Stalin and Adolf Hitler. There's your real life qun right there. Oh now I know what's coming next... you're going to say totalitarism is an unfair description of the qun. Well, perhaps you should take it up with the Bioware writer that made it, and referred to it as such himself: http://social.biowar...08675/2#3325251

As for how they regard those not of Qun, it's not specifically unbeleivers who they treat with disdain, it's people who have not earned their respect. The Arishok had less of a problem telling Hawke why he was in Kirkwall because he respected him or her more. But even if what you said about them is all true, saying that the entire people should be wiped out is such a staggeringly digusting thing to say, that I don't think there is anything else you could have said to sound more like a troll than that if you tried. I suppose it doesn't really matter, I think I'll just bow out of the discussion, saying that is such an indefensible postion to me that I don't see any point for either of us to continue talking about it.

Yes, it's such a horrific thing to say a culture that by its very nature cannot co-exist with another needs to be eliminated. You take naive to new heights, truly. You fall back on an idiotic social outrage and resort to whining about "trolling" because you can't argue with facts. The latter at least doesn't surprise me, it's kind of a theme of yours.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Personal attacks. Now THAT was trolling.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 27 mai 2011 - 02:57 .

[Rifneno]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Personal attacks. Now THAT was trolling.

You're aware that accusing someone of trolling IS a personal attack, right?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

But you  did  just use a series of personal attacks, didn't you? My above accusation was a direct response to that.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 27 mai 2011 - 06:12 .

[dragonflight288]

I respect the Arishok because he stays by his beliefs. He won't back down and he honestly doesn't care what others think of him. He doesn't play politics like Petrice does against the Qunari, he doesn't make threats to any in Kirkwall, and as soon as his goal is accomplished, he leaves. He doesn't care about the petty squabbles.

Petrice was constantly pushing her anti-Qunari agenda forward, saying the Qun is a challenge to the Chant, and constantly plotted to make people hate the Qunari and rise up against them. All he did was mind his own business and work for a goal. He even called working against Petrice pointless until his delegates had been murdered.

[Phoenix_Loftian]

Are people REALLY comparing the Arishok to Osama bin Laden? Is he the new Hitler now?

First of all, Bin Laden doesn't follow any culture. He's an exiled Saudi Arabian who hid in Afghanistan and formed a terrorist organization under extreme religious philosophy. He isn't part of any legitimate government nor did he do anything for cultural reasons. He attacked America because the United States came into Saudi Arabia, under the request of the defense minister, to defend against an invasion from Saddam Hussein. The man is a religious fanatic who felt America desecrated the so-called 'holy land' by bringing soldiers to Mohammed's birthplace. He used that and America's history of imperialism in the Middle East as an excuse to justify al Qaeda. Maybe you should all educate yourselves on just why this man was crazy enough to attack us instead of pretending you know everything.

Second, about the Arishok, He isn't part of some terroist cell nor did he plan any terrorist attacks. He didn't lead any attack until after years of attacks on HIS men. He provided relief for the elves who willingly converted for a BETTER life than that of Kirkwall and quite frankly, Kirkwall's own laws against elves, mages, and the lawlessness outside of the city is what made the Arishok feel an invasion to change things was necessary. He also brings up a very valid point, his men haven't even threatened to do ANYTHING yet their ostracized as a threat by religious fanatics who see it as a 'challenge' to their faith.

If you're going to compare anybody to Bin Laden then it would be Petrice for being a religious crazy.

[Rifneno]

"The Arishok's been planning this for who knows how long." Sure sounds like he planned it to me. Was it before or after Petrice's stunt? Totally irrelevant. He didn't attack her, he didn't even attack the Chantry. He attacked Kirkwall. His men even attack Hawke, who did nothing but ever try to help him. Of course, I have to say his men because the Arishok himself is too cowardly to settle things like a man. He prefers to settle things like he is: a beast, a rabid animal that needs to be put down. But I digress. He has no concern for anyone not of his filthy qun. Ever give him warning that his deligates were kidnapped? He replies, "If anyone else were to tell me that, those words would be their last." Yes, he would literally kill the messenger, the guy trying to help. Oh, and the only reason he doesn't have Hawke killed is because he thinks Hawke might be able to find his delegates, it's nothing to do with Hawke not deserving to die.

He hasn't done anything to threaten them? Their presence is a threat. Everyone knows their brutal and downright evil methods from the failed invasion a while back. Now they show up again, and claim to be waiting for a ship for 4 years? It's obvious he's lying about his purpose there, why WOULDN'T everyone feel threatened given their history? Not to mention the Tal-Vashoth. You think every random joe in Kirkwall understands those murderers roaming the coast aren't "qunari?" I doubt it. Of course, he doesn't take responsibility for his criminals while still condemning all of Kirkwall for a handful of zealots.

Petrice was RIGHT. Her methods were incredibly stupid, but she was totally right about the disease known as the qunari.

[Xilizhra]

Second, about the Arishok, He isn't part of some terroist cell nor did he plan any terrorist attacks. He didn't lead any attack until after years of attacks on HIS men. He provided relief for the elves who willingly converted for a BETTER life than that of Kirkwall and quite frankly, Kirkwall's own laws against elves, mages, and the lawlessness outside of the city is what made the Arishok feel an invasion to change things was necessary. He also brings up a very valid point, his men haven't even threatened to do ANYTHING yet their ostracized as a threat by religious fanatics who see it as a 'challenge' to their faith.

Well, he was part of what was effectively an invading army, occupying the territory of those whom they saw as enemies. His attack on the city came after his enemies were dead (unless Hawke sides with Petrice, in which case it's still an enormous overreaction). And he is, for all practical purposes, a religious fanatic.

[Foolsfolly]

Are people REALLY comparing the Arishok to Osama bin Laden?

Anders bin Laden.

Pass it on.

[Darth Caedus]

you've gotta hand it to Bioware. They wrote the Qunari so well that you guys are having debates and/or arguments that are more impassioned then many debates over real-world issues.

I personally like the Arishok and the Qunari for two reasons:
the first reason is that the Arishok is a great villain and the Qunari are an interesting race. the villain is generally my favorite character in all forms of entertainment. whether he's the Joker in Batman comics and movies, Darth Vader in Star Wars, or Saren and the Reapers in Mass Effect (shameless plug), the villain is who the audience thinks is cool.

the second reason is that they're fiction. if the Arishok and Qunari were real, i would hate them as much as Hitler, Stalin, and Bin Laden. the same applies for the Joker, Darth Vader and Saren. but they're not real. they're fictional characters living in a fictional world. if the Arishok killed a thousand people in Dragon Age 2, i would think that was bad-ass. but if he killed a thousand people in New York, i would be shocked and furious. if the Qunari were real, i would fear them more than any other country or religion. but in Dragon Age 2, i can sympathize with them and see how they have many positives to their society.

that's all i have to add to the topic. please don't hate on me too much.

[Zeevico]

Darth Caedus wrote...

you've gotta hand it to Bioware. They wrote the Qunari so well that you guys are having debates and/or arguments that are more impassioned then many debates over real-world issues.

True.
Still there are a few small weaknesses. The Qunari living on nothing but their own good looks (Sundermount Studs Magazine features Bronze Qunari Hunks?) for four years suggests a lack of forethought, at least in my opinion.

Modifié par Zeevico, 27 mai 2011 - 08:49 .

[Rifneno]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Are people REALLY comparing the Arishok to Osama bin Laden?

Anders bin Laden Osama bin Meredith.

Pass it on.

Fixed.

Darth Caedus wrote...

you've gotta hand it to Bioware. They wrote the Qunari so well that you guys are having debates and/or arguments that are more impassioned then many debates over real-world issues.

Yeah, but to be fair, we'd probably almost come to blows over Coke vs. Pepsi given the chance.

I personally like the Arishok and the Qunari for two reasons:
the first reason is that the Arishok is a great villain and the Qunari are an interesting race. the villain is generally my favorite character in all forms of entertainment. whether he's the Joker in Batman comics and movies

, Darth Vader in Star Wars, or Saren and the Reapers in Mass Effect (shameless plug), the villain is who the audience thinks is cool.

Saren was a tool, both literally and figuratively. I agree on the rest though.

the second reason is that they're fiction. if the Arishok and Qunari were real, i would hate them as much as Hitler, Stalin, and Bin Laden. the same applies for the Joker, Darth Vader and Saren. but they're not real. they're fictional characters living in a fictional world. if the Arishok killed a thousand people in Dragon Age 2, i would think that was bad-ass. but if he killed a thousand people in New York, i would be shocked and furious. if the Qunari were real, i would fear them more than any other country or religion. but in Dragon Age 2, i can sympathize with them and see how they have many positives to their society.

Agreed, that's a great way to look at it.

[RangerSG]

dragonflight288 wrote...

I respect the Arishok because he stays by his beliefs. He won't back down and he honestly doesn't care what others think of him. He doesn't play politics like Petrice does against the Qunari, he doesn't make threats to any in Kirkwall, and as soon as his goal is accomplished, he leaves. He doesn't care about the petty squabbles.

Petrice was constantly pushing her anti-Qunari agenda forward, saying the Qun is a challenge to the Chant, and constantly plotted to make people hate the Qunari and rise up against them. All he did was mind his own business and work for a goal. He even called working against Petrice pointless until his delegates had been murdered.

I agree. I RESPECT them, I don't agree with them. In a crapsack world where every race has total intolerance toward every other, on the whole, (and Dwarves and Elves rejecting large segments of their OWN race as well) calling out the Qunari is pot/kettle syndrome. It's also importing modern sensibilities into a pre-modern setting, which I always find amusing.

The Arishok was respectable because he was consistent with his nature, lived by his code, and had a long-range plan and stuck to it. He knew there was one of two ways he'd leave the city, either with the relic and the thief with his honor intact, or a glorious death that showed the superiority of the wisdom of the Qun over the ways of the Bas. You don't have to like him, but you have to respect him. Just like when I read Shogun, Blackthorn may not like the Samurais' disregard for life (as he saw it), but he respected their honor and devotion to duty.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Well, honor and duty, in our day, is all just a cover for ones own selfish needs, at least in the western world. Which is probably why they can't relate to him.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 27 mai 2011 - 02:43 .

[RangerSG]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Well, honor and duty, in our day, is all just a cover for ones own selfish needs, at least in the western world. Which is probably why they can't relate to him.

The words often get used that way, because politicians cheapen the meaning of the words. People who live and die with such words use them closer to their real sense.

But yes, I agree, in general it's hard for the modern Westerner to accept an obligation beyond one's self. So the kind of commitment and self-abrogation the Qunari practice is lost on us.

Not that I agree with them, of course. But respect doesn't mandate agreement.

[Beerfish]

I agree. I RESPECT them, I don't agree with them. In a crapsack world where every race has total intolerance toward every other, on the whole, (and Dwarves and Elves rejecting large segments of their OWN race as well) calling out the Qunari is pot/kettle syndrome. It's also importing modern sensibilities into a pre-modern setting, which I always find amusing.

Eh?  It is the Qunari and the Arishok who you should be using the pot calling the kettle black quote for.  No one really denied that Kirkwall had major problems but it is the Arishok who indcates that the Qunari are free from all of that stuff, which is TOTALLY bogus.  They have the Tal Vashoth and bounty hunters, how does he explain this?  We'll he merely says 'They have rejected the Qun and are not part of us!'   He ignores the bad behaviour of his people and yet just blasts all of Kirkwall for the bad behaviour of some of the residents.


The Arishok was respectable because he was consistent with his nature, lived by his code, and had a long-range plan and stuck to it.

He is not conistent at all.  He feels that if peoplefall under his jurisdiction that kirkwall law does not apply to them.  (ie killer Elves).  In the same breath he demands to take Isabela back with him when she is clearly under kirkwall jurisdiction.  He refuses to let the kirkwall guard carry out justice on elves that have murdered and yet he happily sends out an archer assassin to kill Petrice.  His long range plan was to sit on his ass for 7 years, lie to his hosts about his intent and do a craptacular job of looking for his book.  As you talk to him over the years he gets more frusterated and more pissed off and then attacks the city.  Not part of his well thought out long term plan I would guess.

He knew there was one of two ways he'd leave the city, either with the relic and the thief with his honor intact, or a glorious death that showed the superiority of the wisdom of the Qun over the ways of the Bas. You don't have to like him, but you have to respect him. Just like when I read Shogun, Blackthorn may not like the Samurais' disregard for life (as he saw it), but he respected their honor and devotion to duty.

What is glorious about utterly failing in your task to find a book taken by some simple theif and then getting all of your forces killed because you could not longer have the discipline to keep looking for the book?  He talks about his sole purpose being to get the book back and then he snaps and fails.  He would also rather fail in his task and have the holy relic fall into the wrong hands than to take the relic and leave without taking the thief back with him.  That is not honour that is sheer stupidity and arrogance.

Modifié par Beerfish, 27 mai 2011 - 03:00 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Uhm, Tal Vasoth aren't Qunari. Qunari doesn't have the problems Kirkwall does.

Qunari does not submit to other authorities, but believe that all others should submit to theirs, he is consistent with that belief.

Isabela is anything but simple. And have you ever had to try and find someone in a city of thousands with nothing to go on but the fact that they stole something that belongs to you? Not easy. He could've jsut razed Kirkwall to the ground when he arrived, but he felt that would cause too much death to the unenlightened. Instead he went on the most difficult path, to hopefully save lifes. He gets frustrated over the years partly because Isabela is hard to find, and because he is conflicted wether or not he should do something about the problems in Kirkwall.

To die for your purpose is glorious. If the Arishok died, fulfilling his duty, it would have been an honorable death. If you kill him and keep the tome, you will merely have obstructed the Qunari from fulfilling a demand of the Qun, and they will come again, sooner than otherwise.