Aller au contenu

Photo

Thesis on an ME MMO


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
72 réponses à ce sujet

#1
Argable

Argable
  • Members
  • 134 messages
Not a post for the easily-bored, but
for anyone who wants to read it, I'd like your opinions.



I've been sweeping the forums for other
opinions on this, and it seems like there's pretty mixed feelings
about making an MMO for the Mass Effect universe. The biggest and
most common reason against the idea seems to be that Mass Effect fans
wouldn't want it to be another game based off of WoW's structure, and
on that I completely agree.
WoW is definitely not a bad game, and
it's damn successful, but that's the reason nothing is strongly
competing with it for players. Blizz is gigantic, very successful,
and very attentive to keeping the players happy. They do a good job
catering to the players who like that style of game. Other games can
copy the mechanics, but they have to compete with a company that's
already been doing it right for years. On top of that, WoW didn't
start from nothing, it started from the Warcraft RTS series that was
already hugely successful and had a fanatic fanbase. Right now, Mass
Effect is in the same position, and I think they could do something
amazing with it.
Just to say it again, I absolutely do
not want Bioware to try making a macro-based, overhead camera,
select-your-target-and-mash-moonfire WoW clone. That would be a
terrible idea if they want to appeal to the core Mass Effect fanbase.
But an MMO doesn't have to be like that. There are other models, with
varying levels of success, that Bioware could take ideas from, and
with the amazing backstory that the Mass Effect RPG's established, I
would absolutely love it if they could make a game that lets us
explore that universe without losing some of the best aspects of
game-play. Let's break those down first.



-Fun, fast-paced TPS combat with powers
and abilities that can be used creatively.



This doesn't even need to be changed.
The only thing that would have to happen to fit this type of combat
into an MMO is to instance the combat areas the way the RPG's already
do. You get a mission, it sends you to a planet/station/other ship,
you land and you kill things. To make it more adapted to a
multiplayer, lets say you get double exp/credits for doing it with a
three player group, but that you can solo most missions with npc
squadmates. Frankly, so long as combat isn't changed much on the
ground, playing solo or in groups would both be incredibly fun using
the current system. Your view point outside the ship would be the
same, and for all intents and purposes it would be like playing the
RPG's, just that some of the people around you are players too.



-A huge, well written story that lets
the player pick their attitudes and allegiance.



This is the perfect chance for Bioware
to expand the ME story. Obviously, there can't be thousands of
Shepherds running around. You pick your race, you start on the
homeworld/flotilla of your species of choice with the a tutorial
boot-camp where you pick your class, then you leave in a starter ship
to join whatever faction you want. It doesn't seem like a WoW-style
opposing factions system would work as well here.

Lets say you pick Turian and join the
Blue Suns, that shouldn't mean you can't land on the Citadel. Maybe
have faction allegiance give bonuses, and world-event skirmishes and
battles that players in their factions can take part in and
participate in the continuing story. On the other hand, let players
stay neutral if they chose, and act as mercenaries, explorers, or
traders.
At this point its up to Bioware. They
would chose how the galaxy's politics play out, and the players would
choose how they want to take part. Hypothetically, the Batarians
decide to oppose the Council in open war. You're online, and a
bulletin comes up that an attack on [planet name] is underway. Rush
there, take part in land based or chip based combat, etc. The story
could go on with the players acting as ship captains for various
factions and player-run group(like guilds).



The other point is companions. ME is
really well driven by your attachment to your crew, and an MMO can't
perfectly replicate that. I had an idea though, imagine if every
certain amount of levels, you received a message from your faction
saying that someone was interested in joining your crew. The race,
gender, and class would be randomized, so it might say “A salarian
engineer has been asking for you, he seems interested in joining the
crew.” You can chose to accept or decline, and if you accept you
chose their looks, name, and background. The issue here would be
making enough personality types so that they don't often overlap. If
you reject all the offers as you level, or lay off your crew mates,
there could be missions at max level to get new ones.



-A gigantic universe and history that
feels both original and exciting to explore.





For this, I look to EVE. Personally, I
think EVE is incredibly boring, but many players enjoy it a lot.
Anyone who reads the notes when scanning planets in ME has seen how
much work went into making them unique, and how many possibilities
there are for exploration, colonization, archeology, etc. With an
entire galaxy to work with, there's no restrictions on how many
systems and planets they could make. Borrowing EVE's economy, system
security ratings, and even some of its travel/combat might be a good
idea.
Let's say Council space is safe at all
levels, and any players who attacks you is immediately flagged and
will be hunted by security on sight. In Terminus space, maybe the
player is flagged as having attacked, and will show up on notices,
but only your faction will attack them on sight. Venture into less
secure systems at your own risk.
A lvl system could be used to
determine what ships and technologies you have access to, and at max
level it could be like the EVE system in that players could buy any
ship they can afford.
There's a massive number of
possibilities here, depending on how much work the company wants to
put into it. Infinity
is making a game-world with entire textured planets, so it isn't
impossible if that's what Bioware wanted to try. Building and
maintaining one's own station is a possibility, or colonizing and
protecting one's own planet, if they can afford it. Randomly
generated artifacts, valuable deposits, instanced NPC bases, it goes
on. The citadel alone would be large enough to warrant an entire MMO
if fully skinned, as would Omega or any of the in-game cities. Make
them real, make them whole, and give players instanced missions on
foot too.



This is a giant block of text, and it
barely touches on the possibilities here. I think an MMO could work
amazingly, but only if Bioware is willing to risk starting a new kind
of MMO entirely. Tabula
Rasa tried the idea of a TPS MMO, but it didn't have the back
story, or anything but ground-based combat. ME definitely has the
back story, plus near as many fans as Warcraft did when WoW launched.

A Mass Effect MMO wouldn't have to,
and should be, like WoW in its mechanics. But if it let players feel
like part of the ME world, building their own wealth and firepower,
and acting as an actual members of the societies in that world, I
would drop everything to get it on opening day.



Ideas? Responses? If nothing else, I'd
like to get this up here for other people to see and think about. I
like how cedgedc is thinking in this
thread, so other people have definitely thought about it If you
read the whole thing, kudos.

http://social.biowar...-7027880-1.html

Modifié par Argable, 25 mai 2011 - 08:18 .


#2
Argable

Argable
  • Members
  • 134 messages
Apparently copy-pasting that screwed with the margins and spacing. Even harder to read now... good luck.

#3
JeffZero

JeffZero
  • Members
  • 14 400 messages
Sorry, I need to be going for a while. I just wanted to let you know that I skimmed it and when I get the chance later I'll try to remember to read it more fully and post some thoughts. Thanks for the thesis.

#4
Argable

Argable
  • Members
  • 134 messages
No worries, I got a bit carried away. It seems like there are some possibilities people are ignoring in the other threads I've seen about this, so I wanted to raise some options.

#5
Guest_DSerpa_*

Guest_DSerpa_*
  • Guests
1) MMO's are terrible and Bioware should keep all of their IP's as far away from them as possible.
2) Not going to happen, period. Bioware is working on SW:TOR for EA. It's already cost tons of money and there's no chance in hell that EA will allow a competitor from it's own child company.

#6
Argable

Argable
  • Members
  • 134 messages
Even if Bioware started working on an ME MMO this very second, it wouldn't be ready for release for the next 3-6 years. Many MMO's don't even last that long.

Even if SW:TOR is successful enough to last, the franchise seems to be getting stale. I honestly think they'd stand to make more money expanding on the best new Sci-Fi universe in the past decade than re-hashing an old one.

#7
xanothis23

xanothis23
  • Members
  • 16 messages
I think they could totally keep the game how it is and put multiplayer into it, obviously me3 will have a new style of combat that's starting to sound very "gears of war" at least from the game informer issue, which to me isn't necessarily a bad thing, considering gears was so well done I actually hate playing first person shooters now. The only thing you'd have to change is the power and weapons wheel, make them not stop time to switch, you'd make players think on their feet and you can still hot key certain powers. A good way. If that was done it would also bring about something that's never happened before, a mmo for a console that's actually good. Sorry to any fans of final fantasy or phantasy star, but I just don't find mmo's to work well on consoles because of the amount of things you can't do with a sixteen button/trigger controller as you can with a...okay I'm not going to count exactly how many keys on a keyboard, and I'm too lazy to look it up but just the alphabet is ten more buttons than a controller. This is why shooters work well on a console though, its much faster and you have better control, mass effect effectively hybridizes a rpg and I shooter, so take that experience to online and figure out how to hotkey powers and weapons and you have possibly the best mmo a console owner could buy.

There is the thought of it simply being a computer game as well, I don't know who I might speak for when I say I was fairly pissed when I heard no old republic on console, hell I don't even own a computer I use my smartphone for the internet, which explains the current ****ty format of this post. But yes, in summary make the same game, let people pick their character race and class WoW style, and then drop them in a mass effect game

#8
Argable

Argable
  • Members
  • 134 messages
Yea, the the time-pause thing wouldn't work real time. It would be a lot more hectic, but not impossible. And I'm all for players having to develop their skills. Arena-style pvp would be incredible with ME's combat too, assuming the classes are fairly balanced.

Locking a target is out of the question for shooting, but maybe for powers, having a five second target lock could work, so long as the other player knows they've been locked on to so they can duck into cover if possible.

#9
Argable

Argable
  • Members
  • 134 messages
As for consoles, It'd be great to see a successful MMO across more than one platform. I think one of the issues is the pay system, but with bioware points/microtransactions, it wouldn't have to be a monthly payment system. I play on PC, but I know a lot of people play ME on console, so itd be in Bioware's best interest if they can get them into it too.

#10
Guest_lightsnow13_*

Guest_lightsnow13_*
  • Guests
I think the series is beautiful as is. I don't see them doing an mmo that would be great tbh. When I think about biotics - that would be a hard system to implement in pvp for example. Or, when you choose your class, you are pretty much choosing your race. Asari wouldn't be good engineers at all, why choose an asari engineer vs. asari biotic?

If they made a type of multiplayer game where...its like a 3rd person shooter/biotic awesomeness game -- maybe something similar to bioshock or cod. (this is mostly just me wishing to control the characters in ME game besides shepard. lol). I could see a lot of things going wrong with the game if it turned into an mmo. I hope they let the trilogy speak for itself and all its glory. - but this is just my opinion. To each their own.

Modifié par lightsnow13, 25 mai 2011 - 06:07 .


#11
Argable

Argable
  • Members
  • 134 messages
class limitation by race is in a lot of MMO's. so yea, for the sake of it making sense, they could limit that.

I'm sure it would make a damn good match-based pvp game as well, and I'd probably play that too. What I want to see is the story of the ME galaxy progress beyond Shep, and I don't see a pure pvp game doing that. Pvp could easily be included in an MMO though.
The trilogy is, and will always be amazing. A bad mmo would be bad for the title, but a good one would rake in a lot more money for bioware than pvp minus the story.
To each their own though, I love the combat as well.

#12
GenericPlayer2

GenericPlayer2
  • Members
  • 1 051 messages
I am against the idea of an ME MMO because I believe it may pull funding from future single player games that could be set in the ME universe. I recall Origins - they were a great gaming company in the 80s to mid 90s. After great game series like Ultima and Wing Commander they launched the Ultima Online mmo. Over time every resource in the company was poured into that MMO and they stopped making new games altogether, and the company was just eventually absorbed into EA.

Even though I would not play an ME MMO I would be against Bioware doing it for fear that it would eventually become the only thing the company does.

#13
Argable

Argable
  • Members
  • 134 messages
Where would they go with new ME single-player titles though? There's definitely potential there, but people love their Shep, and the trilogy seems to be pretty tightly written. They can't and shouldn't drag this arc out. Starting a new story arc is possible, but I'm worried that throwing the same character into a new arc with new baddies would feel...forced. Maybe they could pull it off. If anyone could, it'd be Bioware.

Otherwise, it'd have to follow a character besides Shepherd, and I have no idea what they could to to match up to this trilogy with a new character.

#14
marshalleck

marshalleck
  • Members
  • 15 645 messages

Argable wrote...

Otherwise, it'd have to follow a character besides Shepherd, and I have no idea what they could to to match up to this trilogy with a new character.


It's not hard. You want to please people with a new Mass Effect game (or trilogy) it needs to have a couple things: a protagonist we can shape through meaningful decisions which have a variety of balanced rewards and consequences, interesting companions with rich character development through conversation and side stories, and finally solid, polished TPS gameplay. And meaningful RPG elements via character customization with class/power builds and equipment. 

Basically, it's most of the ingredients Bioware games used to be known for, plus lessons learned from ME1-3. It doesn't have to involve some galaxy-threatening ancient evil bigger than the Reapers in order to be interesting. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 25 mai 2011 - 06:47 .


#15
Argable

Argable
  • Members
  • 134 messages
I understand that, and I would never say that they can't or shouldn't do that. I would play a new Mass Effect trilogy in a heartbeat, but I don't think that Bioware's going to go that route. If they do, fantastic, I trust them to write it well and have the story be engaging and creative.

But, they're going to go with whatever is most profitable, I would imagine. If it looks like that's more ME RPGs, then they'll do that, but I can't think of a single game series that's gone on after a trilogy. Some have made lots of games in the same world, take Bethesda with the Tamriel universe, but those weren't a single progressive story-line.

If Bioware makes more RPG's, great, but if they don't, it's either expand the ME universe into a different genre, or leave it. I would hate to see such a well built game world end with Shepherd's story instead of being expanded on, and I hope a TPS/ship-based MMO might be able to do that.

Besides, you know they're considering it, what with the earlier news. If they're thinking about it, then better to get the ideas out now.

#16
marshalleck

marshalleck
  • Members
  • 15 645 messages
MMOs are not profitable. Look at how many have failed and gone free-to-play w/ microtransactions in the last few years.

#17
Argable

Argable
  • Members
  • 134 messages
WoW was profitable because it hit a fanatic demographic with a type of game-play that wasn't completely opposed to Warcraft's style. MMO's based on that same set of mechanics more recently have been flopping because A.They don;t have the fanbase, and B.They're competing with a company who does it better.

I'm arguing for a different fanbase, those that like TPS instead of RTS, to support an MMO that would be the first of it's kind to be structured that way.

Microtransactions are definitely profitable if a company uses them right. For the moment, I think more money is still being made by subscription based MMOs, but the gap is closing. The reason those games are supporting microtransactions instead of a subscription is that they're trying to tap the same player base wow already has a strangle-hold on, and people don't want to pay two subscriptions at the same time.

#18
marshalleck

marshalleck
  • Members
  • 15 645 messages
Right. MMORPG for people who hate MMORPGs? Sounds like an awful idea. They kinda tried that with DA2: an RPG for people who hate RPGs, and it flopped. Sales sank like a brick past the first week of pre-orders. To nobody but EA pennypincher's great surprise, non-RPG players still weren't interested and Bioware's RPG fans mostly hated it. Thus it pleased nobody and became a dud. 

Also, other companies have tried to make "MMOFPS" games. There's a reason you've probably never heard of them--they don't survive, because your average FPS/TPS fan isn't interested. And why would they be when they already have the game(s) they want to play?

At any rate the topic is kinda moot anyways. TOR will fail and cause huge losses for EA, bankrupt Bioware and probably result in huge layoffs. Bioware will have all but one studio shut down, and TOR will be put on microtransaction life support with minimal development, just like EA did with Warhammer. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 25 mai 2011 - 07:17 .


#19
Argable

Argable
  • Members
  • 134 messages
Tabula Rasa falls into that bottom category, an MMORPG/FPS that tried hitting two demographics and failed at both.

In Tabula Rasa's case though, the gameplay was subpar. It was a grind-y mmo, the only difference being you had to point your targeting reticule at the 20 whatevers you had to kill and collect asses from.

I still think there's a direction that none of them have gone, and that's keeping all the combat from ME RPGS and putting it in a continuous multiplayer world where you can play with/against other people, and experience the continuing universe as a member of it, instead of through books/comics. Like a said before, more RPGs to continue the story? Great, but I still haven't heard of a precedent.

#20
Turran

Turran
  • Members
  • 534 messages
WoW is only successful because it is a button-smashing, easy, mind-numbing game that has become well known.. Any challenge that appears in it has outrage with the majority of their community. MMO's that require skill will be even harder to lift off and have been unsuccessful (I really liked WAR :/ until it went dead), simply put with the consumers being sated with the crap they have, very little expand to other MMOs, as most are born with glitches and don't have enough 'l33t' content to keep WoW fans happy. It's sad but it wouldn't pick up very well :/

#21
Argable

Argable
  • Members
  • 134 messages
Being all-too familiar with that community, I know what you mean...

The horrible text-wall that started this post pointed out that a wide enough MMO could cater to different types of game-play, pvp/pve shooter, economic, exploration. Looking at EVE's model of end-game content, the dynamic there is based on in-game profits and that might last better than WoW's raid-progression, and it's looking at expanding into off-ship gameplay as well...so basically this idea.

Something that appeals to both the people who like ME's combat, and those that like its story would have to have more than one kind of game-play or it would get stale, but there's been arguments for a stand-alone pvp TPS, and that would be included right there in the persistent world with an arena system.

#22
Argable

Argable
  • Members
  • 134 messages
I might just be in the minority for liking the idea of an ME MMO. I've played WoW for 6 years now and I would hate it if ME was made into anything like that style of game-play. That said, the Mass Effect games have been the best I've ever played, and there's a shortage of good Sci-Fi stories out there that go beyond kill-all-aliens, so I would love to be able to participate in a persistent ME world.

I still think it could work, and be amazing, but it would have to be a project that the producers were dedicated to making massive, and maintaining. The ideas are up there for consideration, but if someone's wholeheartedly opposed to MMOs in general, and not just WoW's overused model, then it's just a difference in preferences.

#23
armass

armass
  • Members
  • 1 019 messages
It might be intresting if they made it like shooter mmorpg.

But I doubt they will be doing anything like that soon, they already have old republic coming.

Modifié par armass, 25 mai 2011 - 09:20 .


#24
Argable

Argable
  • Members
  • 134 messages
How The Old Republic does will be interesting. The last thread (link above) talked a lot about that. Some people think that if it does well, Bioware will be more inclined to do an ME MMO, some think that if it flops they will.

I don't think that they'd try making an ME MMO if the old republic does really well. But, I think an ME MMO would do better than the old republic... and recent articles seem to agree, so if it doesn't do as well as they'd like, I wouldn't be surprised if they tried.

#25
corporal doody

corporal doody
  • Members
  • 6 037 messages
i didnt read any of that stuff....cuz as soon as i see ME and MMO next to each other the voices in my head start to scream NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooo