272 réponses à ce sujet

[Ymladdych]

Modifié par Ymladdych, 10 septembre 2011 - 03:48 .

[nickkcin11]

The real purpose of this thread: arguments over how _________ sucks ass or doesn't and how everyone who disagrees is wrong.

But I finally couldn't help myself and decided to put Jacob and Grunt on the list. No one really likes Jacob for good reason, his dialogue is always bland and his romance dialogue is extremely cheesy. Grunt is the peak of ME2 trying so hard to be "cool and epic and dangerous sounding". He is a hormonal Krogan which is as ridiculous as it sounds. Such a shame that he is a tryhard because I love Krogan and Steve Blum. Seems like a winning combo but that wasn't the case. I would take Wrex over him anyday. I hope they keep him in a moderately important role because he has untapped potential.

Modifié par nickkcin11, 28 mai 2011 - 02:41 .

[TG74]

+1 on the dislike for Ashley. Left her to be nuked in ME1.
Miranda's arrogance used to annoy me and I tried my best to get her killed in the final battle.
Zaeed bugged me at first, but I decided to stick with him rather than let him die and he's not actually that bad.
Thane, Jacob, Samara are boring and Jacks just freaky.

[Weiser_Cain]

I hate Kaiden. Don't know why.
I hate Joker, he's obnoxious and he got me killed.
I hate Miranda, she's a jerk.
I hate Bailey, he's a bad cop.
I hate Undina, he's a moron more concerned with his prestige than lives.
I hate Conrad Verner because he deserves it.

[StellarMagic]

I think all of the characters have issues, but a lot of the issues also revolve around the lack of interaction between the squadmates and Shepard. You could talk to each one individually, and then there are the confrontations between Jack and Miranda, Tali and Legion, but really there isn't much meat there. The characters just exist in this bubble where it's just them and Shepard most of the time.

Certain fan communities have poisoned other people's opinions of characters due to their mindless devotion. (I like Tali, big deal. XP ) However I think we have to remember that we went from 6 squad mates (Garrus, Liara, Kaiden, Ashley, Wrex, and Tali) to the massive team of ME2. Most of the dialog between squad members were on elevators in ME1, that were removed and replaced with tech screens.

Many of the scripted events could have worked a lot better if there was more dialog. Things like how Jacob's conversation with TIM after his loyalty mission being interrupted by Miranda would have helped build up all the characters. Or some more commentary from the character acting as the third wheel during the loyalty missions. (Bringing Garrus and Tali along on either one's loyalty mission should have triggered some dialog... they've known each other quite awhile.)

Personally I think they made a big mistake with how Liara changed between ME1 and ME2... She went from being a naive young scientist (and powerful biotic) to an information broker with a temper and vendetta against the Shadow Broker to becoming the Shadow Broker. That's an arc I have a really hard time buying. Really made me dislike her in ME2 actually...

Ashley/Kaiden's rant on Horizon also didn't seem well handled. What they do makes sense but the words they chose don't... it sounds too much like a prepared speech or something. Maybe Bioware just wanted to beat up our old LI so that the new character's seemed more tempting...

The concept of the Loyalty missions was a good way to deepen the characters, though the requirement of combat for most of them (save Thane and Samara's) made some of them seem a bit... ham-fisted. I personally think that Tali's Loyalty Mission nailed what such a mission should be like. You've got huge issues crammed into that little trial room, all being focused on Tali, a very real and explainable hostile force and reason for combat (Retaking the Alarei) and probable large scale repercussions in ME3...

[HogarthHughes 3]

I hope that Mass Effect 3 has better relationships between the companions & other characters on the ship. For all its faults, DA2 did that better than pretty much any other RPG I've ever played. There were a few worth noting in ME 1 and 2, but too many characters were left out. Perhaps it's unrealistic to expect such given that ME games take course over a relatively short period of time, but still there could be more interaction.

[nickkcin11]

I feel like all the ME1 characters changed way to much.

Liara went from being a scientist who was nothing like her mother to being the shadow broker and almost as ruthless as Benezia.

Garrus went from being the rookie like cop (even though he had experience, Shep basically taught him the stuff that would shape his life) to being a badass vigilante/leader.

Tali didn't change much, she sounds like she grew up a bit and that's all.

Wrex went from "giving up on the Krogan" to saying he can't abandon them. That seems a little far fetched though perhaps the events on Virmire changed his views.

Ash/Kaiden acted as though they were trying to push you away and the VS lost a lot of respect from many people. All the dialogue from Shep was stupid as well.
"How you doing Ash, it's been a while."
"We were lovers and you died, how do you think I've been you insensitive fool!"
"Your letting your emotions get in the way" (I always thought this line sounded sexist)

Besides Tali and Garrus' progression, I was not happy with the way they evolved the characters.

[KotorEffect3]

nickkcin11 wrote...

I feel like all the ME1 characters changed way to much.

Liara went from being a scientist who was nothing like her mother to being the shadow broker and almost as ruthless as Benezia.

Garrus went from being the rookie like cop (even though he had experience, Shep basically taught him the stuff that would shape his life) to being a badass vigilante/leader.

Tali didn't change much, she sounds like she grew up a bit and that's all.

Wrex went from "giving up on the Krogan" to saying he can't abandon them. That seems a little far fetched though perhaps the events on Virmire changed his views.

Ash/Kaiden acted as though they were trying to push you away and the VS lost a lot of respect from many people. All the dialogue from Shep was stupid as well.
"How you doing Ash, it's been a while."
"We were lovers and you died, how do you think I've been you insensitive fool!"
"Your letting your emotions get in the way" (I always thought this line sounded sexist)

Besides Tali and Garrus' progression, I was not happy with the way they evolved the characters.

Wrex changed the least out of all the ME 1 squad members in my opinion and I think he is the only ME  1 squad member that was doing better for himself in ME 2.  As for Wrex going from thinking the Krogan were a lost cause to wanting to unite his people can be attributed to a few factors, namely the events on Virmire, Shepard chastising him for not helping his people, and last but not least being in Shepard's squad in ME 1 means he knows about the Reapers and if his people are to surivive they will need to unite,  when is all said and done the Krogan have the potential to play an important part in the upcoming Reaper war.

[Manic Sheep]

There aren’t aren’t characters that I hate. Most the charcters I like on some level. Tho pretty much all of them have certain aspects of their personality I don’t like and I like some more than others I guess.
Jacob annoys me sometimes tho he has some bro moments. Not because he bland tho. I don’t like the way he stands and I don’t like the way he talks. Sometimes he seems like he’s trying too hard. He also comes across as a bit of passive aggressive dick in some instances. The fact that my femsheps seem to be set to auto flirt doesn’t help matters either.
Liara used to bug me, especially with “oh I feel faint” thing, not sure why. She got much better in LotSB tho.
Tali was like a Quarain encyclopaedia in ME1 and she came across as too fangirly in ME2. I still like her tho.
Thane pisses me off with his “I’m just the weapon” mentality and I’m not fond of the spiritual assassin thing tho he has a few awesome lines here and there.

[GuardianAngel470]

I disliked Jack in my first playthrough because, quite honestly, she reminded me too much of people I'd known. Then I actually listened to her space station story and pretty much instantly changed my mind.

I disliked Ashley, one could even say I hated her, then I thought more about her dialog and took her on a few missions around the Citadel and, if not warmed up to her, at least thawed out a bit.

I romanced Miranda (not Zaeed, he he) my first playthrough until I found out that Tali was a romance option then I did that and was unfortunately disappointed (instinctively skipped the romance itself and had to reload).

I disliked Liara in ME1, thought she was trying too hard in ME2 (for those that actually believed her dialog in ME2 and said that was a sign that she'd been rewritten you apparently aren't that good at reading people, no offense intended) and the LotSB came out and I found that she had matured considerably (still not rewritten, see crying). As a result I warmed up considerably to her.

Other than that I haven't had any issues. Garrus disappointed me briefly in ME1 because he died before Tali, then I realized that was because Tali was amazingly useful in ME1 and not because Garrus was somehow a wimp.

I like thane, I like Samara, I like Jacob (especially the bro-hug), I like Mordin, Legion, and the rest of the crew.

Hate Udina but only because he is a politician and acts like a politician. I'm mostly apathetic toward the Council with my homocidal side silently battling with my diplomatic side behind my empty eyes.

[GenericPlayer2]

Its difficult to put into words why I hate certain characters. But so far there are 2 types I don't like:

1. I don't like needy characters. I detest characters that cannot get stuff done on their own, or always need Shep to rescue them from something. I put the ability to save one's self in a bad situation to be the most minimum of requirements to gain my respect. I have 3-4 playthroughs where I simply don't recruit a popular character just to see if she survives and makes it to ME3.

2. Bland Characters: Some characters like Jacob are so bland I simply feel like its a waste of time to talk to them. Samara is a bit more interesting but still quite bland. There is nothing in what they say that leads to any sense of camaraderie.

3. Unchecked aggression: I hated Jack because her aggression is not tempered by any sense of logic or minimum morality. She has the makings of a genocidal warlord. I am not saying she is poorly written, I just hate that I don't get the option to do the galaxy a favor and leave her on Purgatory.

[mi55ter]

I have another hated one to add, after just having struggled thru Arrival twice. Yes, you guessed it, Kenson. God was she a suitcase to drag around on that mission. 2 powers? Overload and Incinerate? That's it? Her lips moved horribly, and the worst part for me, was the boredom factor. Absolutely no personality. Comparing her to the only other mission where you have only one squaddie, Kasumi's loyalty, was Kenson's kiss o' death. Kasumi's hilarious between gunshots, and Gramma Kenson was just.. brainwashed and robotic?

[Made Nightwing]

To the people that completely missed the point of my post:

Why? Just why? You are going to play the game anyway, regardless of how many characters you 'hate'. All you do is go on and on about the same bloody things. Ashley's racist, Miranda's a ****, Tali and Garrus get too much love, Liara has too much plot armour, Jacob's too boring.

YES, WE GET IT. You've stated the same points over and over again. And yet if the character wasn't in the game, the game would be just a little bit more empty. Instead of relaxing, taking a chill pill and focusing on the good things about the game, you constantly **** and moan about the same 'problems'. Here and on a dozen other threads. Sooner or later, you'll talk yourself into hating the whole game.

[Seboist]

mi55ter wrote...

I have another hated one to add, after just having struggled thru Arrival twice. Yes, you guessed it, Kenson. God was she a suitcase to drag around on that mission. 2 powers? Overload and Incinerate? That's it? Her lips moved horribly, and the worst part for me, was the boredom factor. Absolutely no personality. Comparing her to the only other mission where you have only one squaddie, Kasumi's loyalty, was Kenson's kiss o' death. Kasumi's hilarious between gunshots, and Gramma Kenson was just.. brainwashed and robotic?

I liked Kenson's voice and she looked hot. That counts for something.

[KotorEffect3]

Made Nightwing wrote...

To the people that completely missed the point of my post:

Why? Just why? You are going to play the game anyway, regardless of how many characters you 'hate'. All you do is go on and on about the same bloody things. Ashley's racist, Miranda's a ****, Tali and Garrus get too much love, Liara has too much plot armour, Jacob's too boring.

YES, WE GET IT. You've stated the same points over and over again. And yet if the character wasn't in the game, the game would be just a little bit more empty. Instead of relaxing, taking a chill pill and focusing on the good things about the game, you constantly **** and moan about the same 'problems'. Here and on a dozen other threads. Sooner or later, you'll talk yourself into hating the whole game.

I think it is good to have characters you don't like in the game, they make it more interesting.  Let's put it this way Miranda is the type of person I would not get along with irl but at the same time I am interested  in seeing which direction her character goes in ME 3.

[Made Nightwing]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

To the people that completely missed the point of my post:

Why? Just why? You are going to play the game anyway, regardless of how many characters you 'hate'. All you do is go on and on about the same bloody things. Ashley's racist, Miranda's a ****, Tali and Garrus get too much love, Liara has too much plot armour, Jacob's too boring.

YES, WE GET IT. You've stated the same points over and over again. And yet if the character wasn't in the game, the game would be just a little bit more empty. Instead of relaxing, taking a chill pill and focusing on the good things about the game, you constantly **** and moan about the same 'problems'. Here and on a dozen other threads. Sooner or later, you'll talk yourself into hating the whole game.

I think it is good to have characters you don't like in the game, they make it more interesting.  Let's put it this way Miranda is the type of person I would not get along with irl but at the same time I am interested  in seeing which direction her character goes in ME 3.

And that is a good point. If I met a guy like Zaeed in real life, I would strongly object to him. Miranda would be the boss I would **** about behind her back, at least until I got to know her. My reasoning is just that everyone ends up repeating the same reasons why a certain character is hated.

It doesn't produce much valuable discussion, and creates a feeling of negativity about the game in general, when really, the game is excellent and will continue to be excellent because of ALL its characters, not just our favourites.

[KotorEffect3]

Made Nightwing wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

To the people that completely missed the point of my post:

Why? Just why? You are going to play the game anyway, regardless of how many characters you 'hate'. All you do is go on and on about the same bloody things. Ashley's racist, Miranda's a ****, Tali and Garrus get too much love, Liara has too much plot armour, Jacob's too boring.

YES, WE GET IT. You've stated the same points over and over again. And yet if the character wasn't in the game, the game would be just a little bit more empty. Instead of relaxing, taking a chill pill and focusing on the good things about the game, you constantly **** and moan about the same 'problems'. Here and on a dozen other threads. Sooner or later, you'll talk yourself into hating the whole game.

I think it is good to have characters you don't like in the game, they make it more interesting.  Let's put it this way Miranda is the type of person I would not get along with irl but at the same time I am interested  in seeing which direction her character goes in ME 3.

And that is a good point. If I met a guy like Zaeed in real life, I would strongly object to him. Miranda would be the boss I would **** about behind her back, at least until I got to know her. My reasoning is just that everyone ends up repeating the same reasons why a certain character is hated.

It doesn't produce much valuable discussion, and creates a feeling of negativity about the game in general, when really, the game is excellent and will continue to be excellent because of ALL its characters, not just our favourites.

I think there is a difference between hating a character and hating how a character is written, personaly I don't like seeing people complain about how they hate the writing,  I'd like to see these complainers do better.  Creating a character giving them a backstory and fitting them into the game universe is not as easy as some people lead themselves to believe.  Going back to my Miranda example I hate her but not how she is written when I am playing ME 2 and there are situations  where Miranda is being a stuckup pro-cerberus b*tch I often want to punch her in the face.  To me that is a good thing because the game is stirring up my emotions.

[Kyra The Guardian]

Hmmn, well for some reason I never really liked Miranda. Im not sure what, but something about her made it hard for me to trust her. Ive only played ME2 so far however. I wasnt so sure of Jacub at first, but he grew on me and I began to trust him a bit. Now the Illusive man, he never gained my trust XD I just sorta played along with what he said, I made it clear with Tali I didnt trust him though. I wasnt sure about Jack at first too, but as I learned more about her I trusted her too. All in all, not too sure theres really anyone I didnt like other than Miranda and Illusive man.

As for the ones I did like, Garrus, Joker, grunt and Mordin had to be my top favs, along with Tali. Garrus, grunt, Joker and Mordin all gave me a few laughs lol, I enjoy them quite a bit, tali seems like a pretty good friend too. She does get on my nerves sometimes but not much. Joker, he's a definate keeper XD I dont think theres a time he didnt at least make me chuckle, even during the rough times he got a laugh out of me. Now Garrus, he seems like a true friend, very loyal and intelligent. I felt good keeping him from killing that one Turian (cant remember his nam) because I felt like I was helping him form his character, in a pretty big way too. Also felt good putting his mind at ease, at least a little. I also enjoyed helping Grunt out, he felt he needed a reason for living and I helped him. Was pretty fun fighting at his side too, then to have him call me his battlemaster? still getting used to even being called a master in some way, but its pretty cool.

I'll save everyones eyes and stop rambling haha! I know this is for people you dont like, but figured Id add in something about those I like too X3

Oh! Cant believe I forgot it but I also like Thane, I feel sorry for him and his past, felt even worse failing his loyalty mission >.O but there was something about him I liked, maybe how civil he seems? Or how he also cares about his son, and the mere fact he seems like a pretty nice guy for an assasin XD depressive sometimes, but nice. Also love his outfit hehe, I think garrus could look pretty cool in something like that, or even other Turians. Anyways Im done typing heh, spare everyones eyes from more text.

[Kyra The Guardian]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

To the people that completely missed the point of my post:

Why? Just why? You are going to play the game anyway, regardless of how many characters you 'hate'. All you do is go on and on about the same bloody things. Ashley's racist, Miranda's a ****, Tali and Garrus get too much love, Liara has too much plot armour, Jacob's too boring.

YES, WE GET IT. You've stated the same points over and over again. And yet if the character wasn't in the game, the game would be just a little bit more empty. Instead of relaxing, taking a chill pill and focusing on the good things about the game, you constantly **** and moan about the same 'problems'. Here and on a dozen other threads. Sooner or later, you'll talk yourself into hating the whole game.

I think it is good to have characters you don't like in the game, they make it more interesting.  Let's put it this way Miranda is the type of person I would not get along with irl but at the same time I am interested  in seeing which direction her character goes in ME 3.

And that is a good point. If I met a guy like Zaeed in real life, I would strongly object to him. Miranda would be the boss I would **** about behind her back, at least until I got to know her. My reasoning is just that everyone ends up repeating the same reasons why a certain character is hated.

It doesn't produce much valuable discussion, and creates a feeling of negativity about the game in general, when really, the game is excellent and will continue to be excellent because of ALL its characters, not just our favourites.

I think there is a difference between hating a character and hating how a character is written, personaly I don't like seeing people complain about how they hate the writing,  I'd like to see these complainers do better.  Creating a character giving them a backstory and fitting them into the game universe is not as easy as some people lead themselves to believe.  Going back to my Miranda example I hate her but not how she is written when I am playing ME 2 and there are situations  where Miranda is being a stuckup pro-cerberus b*tch I often want to punch her in the face.  To me that is a good thing because the game is stirring up my emotions.

Agreed, if a character is able to stir up emotions its likely they did a good job on writing the character. Also making the character believable could be another challenge, along with being origonal. Ive only played ME2, but to be honest I think Garrus and Thane are two of the best characters, they both managed to stir up emotions in me. Being trusting in Garrus, and feeling bad for Thane, yet also attached. The way he seems to go into a trance from his memories is an interesting addition. Although it can seem a bit creepy, its very interesting to me too. Makes me more curious about him. Im sure many dont like Thane because of his depressive attitude, and I dont like the fact that he is depressed. But I think it adds more depth to the game because, in reality, not everyone is happy. Plus if you're like me, it would feel great to help someone like him find something to be happy about, which makes me wish even more that I didnt fail his loyalty mission lol.

 All in all, I think they did a great job on the characters. I know it can be very difficult with creating characters and such.

[kglaser]

I don't hate anyone. Hate is too strong and powerful a word to be wasted on a totally imaginary video game character.
Having said that, there are certain fans who make it sorely tempting to hate on their favorite character purely out of spite.

[Ymladdych]

Modifié par Ymladdych, 10 septembre 2011 - 03:48 .

[AlexMBrennan]

Agreed, if a character is able to stir up emotions its likely they did a good job on writing the character.

Or, alternatively, they had the character do some acts universally considered evil. "Samara murders police officers" is truly great writing.

[Inspectre]

Made Nightwing wrote...
Sooner or later, you'll talk yourself into hating the whole game.

I don't think that's possible.  I'm pretty sure nobody hates this game more than I do, but it's still in my top 10 for the few things in it that I like.  It's that... incredible to me.

[Dangerfoot]

HogarthHughes 3 wrote...

I hope that Mass Effect 3 has better relationships between the companions & other characters on the ship. For all its faults, DA2 did that better than pretty much any other RPG I've ever played. There were a few worth noting in ME 1 and 2, but too many characters were left out. Perhaps it's unrealistic to expect such given that ME games take course over a relatively short period of time, but still there could be more interaction.

I think that it was because there were so many characters. You don't get a whole lot of time to get to know all of them.

Also, your name is awesome.


As for a character I hate, I'd say Aria. I come to Omega and she basically threatens me over and over and attempts to intimidate me. I'm the goddamn Shepard.

It should have gone like this:

"Don't [mess] with Aria" (stupid smirk)
"Excuse me? First of all, I died and came back to life. I don't know if you heard about that. Second, who are you again? An ex-stripper turned mob boss that barely keeps a grungy space station afloat? Me, I'm the (wo)man that saved the galaxy. I ask the best and brightest of every system to jump and they reply, 'how high?' So again, I'll ask. Who the hell are you?"
"Uh.."
"Thought so. Now tell me where Mordin is."
"I-..."
"Too late, EDI just told me. Later." (pushes bodyguard out of the way like he's nothing)

[Zrvan]

When I first played ME1, after meeting Tali, I immediately filed her under 'Mission clone' and promptly stuffed her all the way back to the back of my 'people to talk to' roster.  I discovered this was fairly wise because -she- -just- won't- -shut- -up- on the Normandy, but after taking her on a some missions to get the Achievement, I discovered she wasn't some naive harpy tugging on my ear to be moral, like I was expecting.  I can't STAND little sister characters (probably a side effect of having two of my own IRL), but thankfully Tali wasn't written that way, so that was averted.

I've heard many people advocate for Ashley before, but I can't feel it.  For not being discriminatory, she sure comes off that way.  Hard to feel favorably inclined towards someone who may decide they don't like you tomorrow because you don't keep to the Master Race enough.

I dislike Miranda mostly because I dislike Yvonne Strahovski's performance.  Most of Miranda's delivery is flat and boring.  She's a somewhat interesting character, but when everything is delivered like a day-one reading of a play, she snaps my immersion like a twig.

I could elaborate on why I dislike Thane, but it's mostly covered here.

I like Subject Zero for story, but in gameplay she's rubbish.  Not even remotely useful on the higher difficulties, due to all of her powers not going through Armor, Barrier, or Shields.  Anyone would be better than her.  Except Samara, who has the same problem.

Wow, this post makes me sound like a misogynist.  I didn't realize I had that much of a problem with the womenfolk in ME.  Maybe' I'm roleplaying my femShep as being too catty?