272 réponses à ce sujet

[Cheesy Blue]

armass wrote...

I didnt care for Grunt really, he's funny but he's such a "gaah i want to kill!" stereotype of krogan, Wrex was more intresting.

Yeah he was a sterotype, but a funny one. I agree with you that wrex is more interesting, if Grunt is a party member in ME3 like everyone thinks he's going to be I hope he matures a little bit.

Samara really didn't get me either, I almost never use her, why did we need another pure biotic user when we got Jack? Felt like an extra character,

This seems to be a common complaint. I take it Samara isn't very popular.

Kasumi - do i even need to comment?

Yes, you do. Everyone seems to love her. I'm interested in your opinion.

[armass]

Mesina2 wrote...

armass wrote...

I didnt care for Grunt really, he's funny but he's such a "gaah i want to kill!" stereotype of krogan, Wrex was more intresting.

Grunt is pretty much a child while Wrex lives for long time.

So what did you except?

Samara really didn't get me either, I almost never use her, why did we need another pure biotic user when we got Jack? Felt like an extra character,

Asari are powerful Biotics and she's even a Justicar.

Also in combat she's far more useful then Jack.

Kasumi - do i even need to comment?

Yes. I really don't see how can anyone dislike her.

Feels like some anime character rip off. I mean really, a japanese female cyber thief? Her mission is intresting and all(nice change of scenery, really digged Donovan Hocks vault), but like Samara i almost never use her.

Modifié par armass, 25 mai 2011 - 09:25 .

[Antivenger]

armass wrote...

Feels like some anime character rip off. I mean really, a japanese female cyber thief. Her mission is intresting and all(nice change of scenery, really digged Donovan Hocks vault), but like Samara i almost never use her.

Haha! That made me crack up!

I never noticed that before, and it probably would have bothered me but her voice redeems her anime-ness. Plus her flashbang skill is useful for those who don't have have shockwave or pull. Glitches often, though.

[Cheesy Blue]

armass wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

armass wrote...

I didnt care for Grunt really, he's funny but he's such a "gaah i want to kill!" stereotype of krogan, Wrex was more intresting.

Grunt is pretty much a child while Wrex lives for long time.

So what did you except?

Samara really didn't get me either, I almost never use her, why did we need another pure biotic user when we got Jack? Felt like an extra character,

Asari are powerful Biotics and she's even a Justicar.

Also in combat she's far more useful then Jack.

Kasumi - do i even need to comment?

Yes. I really don't see how can anyone dislike her.

Feels like some anime character rip off. I mean really, a japanese female cyber thief? Her mission is intresting and all(nice change of scenery, really digged Donovan Hocks vault), but like Samara i almost never use her.

I myself like Kasumi. I think her dialouge that she gives you based on what your doing throughout the course of the game is cool. And she seems to be pretty upbeat which is relief from the doom and gloom that I get from the rest of the crew (not that I blame them).

[CroGamer002]

armass wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

armass wrote...

Kasumi - do i even need to comment?

Yes. I really don't see how can anyone dislike her.

Feels like some anime character rip off. I mean really, a japanese female cyber thief? Her mission is intresting and all(nice change of scenery, really digged Donovan Hocks vault), but like Samara i almost never use her.

1st she's not cyber thief. Thief with tech expertise≠Cyber theif. Hell even with today's tech you have to be expert with tech if you're going for very protected stuff.

2nd do you ever talk with her?

3rd she's one of the most useful squadmates. Her cloaking ability can save her life and get a kill on common hostiles or heavily damage elite hostiles. Plus flashbang is very useful.

Modifié par Mesina2, 25 mai 2011 - 09:40 .

[armass]

Mesina2 wrote...

armass wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

armass wrote...

Kasumi - do i even need to comment?

Yes. I really don't see how can anyone dislike her.

Feels like some anime character rip off. I mean really, a japanese female cyber thief? Her mission is intresting and all(nice change of scenery, really digged Donovan Hocks vault), but like Samara i almost never use her.

1st she's not cyber thief. Thief with tech expertise≠Cyber theif. Hell even with today's tech you have to be expert with tech if you're going for very protected stuff.

2nd do you ever talk with her?

3rd she's one of the most useful squadmates. Her cloaking ability can save her life and get a kill on common hostiles or heavily damage elite hostiles. Plus flashbang is very useful.

What you trying to change my opinion now? Good luck with that.

Modifié par armass, 25 mai 2011 - 09:42 .

[Cheesy Blue]

Mesina2 wrote...

armass wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

armass wrote...

Kasumi - do i even need to comment?

Yes. I really don't see how can anyone dislike her.

Feels like some anime character rip off. I mean really, a japanese female cyber thief? Her mission is intresting and all(nice change of scenery, really digged Donovan Hocks vault), but like Samara i almost never use her.

1st she's not cyber thief. Thief with tech expertise≠Cyber theif. Hell even with today's tech you have to be expert with tech if you're going for very protected stuff.

2nd do you ever talk with her?

3rd she's one of the most useful squadmates. Her cloaking ability can save her life and get a kill on common hostiles or heavily damage elite hostiles. Plus flashbang is very useful.

Try your best not to argue. Read the OP.

[V-rex]

Sesshomaru47 wrote...

I never liked Ashley. Why? because she's a racist witch hag...and now a hypocrite on top of it. Aliens from the animals...geez.

Really?

No one else is going to step in? I'm going to have to do it again?

*sigh*

NO, SHE ISN'T RACIST
For God's sake, I know I promised myself not to get riled up but DAMN IT.
Ashley is concerned about allowing aliens onto the Normandy because
they are foreign nationals who don't even have military history who you
have known for all of one hour and now they are aboard and have free
access to all the inner workings of the most advanced warship the human
race has.

And as far as that 'I can't tell the aliens from the animals' from what I hear in an interview by one of the devs, that line was glitched and was only meant to be activated when she was standing near or around a Keeper. You know, the creatures with no language, no culture and no way to be communicated that seem to exist solely to manage things on the Citadel?
I.E ANIMALS. And ANIMALS that look like they ought to be an ALIEN RACE because of how most of the time when you see them they are standing next to a control panel operating it.
Plus, the Hanar and Elcor look an awful lot like animals too, for someone who's never had contact or prolonged exposure to aliens, Ashley was understandably confused.

Plus as I have said, many, many, many times she has a right to
distrust aliens. Her Grandfather was the first human ever to surrender
to an alien race and as a result her family name has been blacklisted
and her career has been unfairly pushed through the dirt. That, combined
with a lack of personal experience working with aliens or even much in
the way of contact with them, gives reason and justification as to why
she might be uncomfortable around them.
Similarly she has the
capacity to grow as a character and change her mind about this whole
thing and grows to be proud to fight alongside aliens.
Also for what it's worth:

On Virmire Ashley happily volunteers to assist the Salarian team.
She's seen talking to Kirrahe in the beginning and subsequently
volunteers to aid the Salarian team in the battle ahead. If you listen
to her on the com chatter you can tell that even though she is the lone
human in a team of aliens she is having no difficulty working with them
and is even demonstrating a degree respect towards them.

If you take Ashley to the Citadel and to the Terra Firma rally, she
will oppose their attitude to human and alien policies. She'll say that
she believes the party once had noble goals but are now being run by
racists and that citing Shanxi as a justification to hold onto hatred of
aliens is insensitive and to completely militarily oppose alien
governments is just 'looking for a fight'.

During an elevator conversation between her and Tali, Ashley will
point out that some humans are angry at the Quarians for the attack on
Eden Prime given that Quarians made the Geth. She will then add that
hopefully seeing Tali assist in the mission against Saren will change
people's minds about the Quarians.

Also on the Citadel, Ashley will note that she would quite like to
live in the wards. Tell me, would a xenophobic racist actually WANT to
move into a place populated by all kinds of different cultures and alien
races?

Also after Benezia dies, Ashley suggests to Shepard to go and talk to
Liara and comfort her. Telling her that she just lost her mum and
'that's gotta hurt'. She says it in a very sympathetic tone which
implies that she is empathizing with Liara's current situation.
Likewise if you pick Ashley in the romance conflict scene and Liara
walks away Ashley will note that she feels sorry for Liara, arguing that
'no one should have to feel like they aren't good enough to get what
they want'. If Shepard then points out that Ashley a moment ago was very
vicious towards Liara, Ashley will admit that her anger was actually
aimed at Shepard.

Point is, Ashley might have issues with aliens due to the bad family
history and lack of personal experience but she's also a far cry from
being a true racist.

Ehhh, okay that's that done.

Anyway OT:
The only one that earns particular spite from me is Miranda. Meaning no offence to the Miranda fans out there but I just didn't like her.

Her personality was schisophrenic, randomly leaping between 'cold and heartless authority figure' and 'cheerful and friendly co-worker'. Her face is buried deep in the uncanny valley in a way that is more terrifying then the Collectors and the Reapers combined. I can't stand all the immature shots of her rump, as not only are they immature but they only serve to undermine any severity of anything she ever says which in turn undermines her as a character.
I just didn't like her, and couldn't bring myself to ever warm to her no matter how many times I tried I always end up siding with Jack in the confrontation. Again, I mean no offence to Miranda's fanbase but this is just what I see.

EDIT: And yes, I DID copy paste that wall of text from another post I made. Give me a break, I'm tired.

Modifié par V-rex, 25 mai 2011 - 09:48 .

[Cheesy Blue]

V-rex wrote...

Sesshomaru47 wrote...

I never liked Ashley. Why? because she's a racist witch hag...and now a hypocrite on top of it. Aliens from the animals...geez.

Really?

No one else is going to step in? I'm going to have to do it again?

*sigh*

NO, SHE ISN'T RACIST
For God's sake, I know I promised myself not to get riled up but DAMN IT.
Ashley is concerned about allowing aliens onto the Normandy because
they are foreign nationals who don't even have military history who you
have known for all of one hour and now they are aboard and have free
access to all the inner workings of the most advanced warship the human
race has.

And as far as that 'I can't tell the aliens from the animals' from what I hear in an interview by one of the devs, that line was glitched and was only meant to be activated when she was standing near or around a Keeper. You know, the creatures with no language, no culture and no way to be communicated that seem to exist solely to manage things on the Citadel?
I.E ANIMALS. And ANIMALS that look like they ought to be an ALIEN RACE because of how most of the time when you see them they are standing next to a control panel operating it.
Plus, the Hanar and Elcor look an awful lot like animals too, for someone who's never had contact or prolonged exposure to aliens, Ashley was understandably confused.
Plus as I have said, many, many, many times she has a right to
distrust aliens. Her Grandfather was the first human ever to surrender
to an alien race and as a result her family name has been blacklisted
and her career has been unfairly pushed through the dirt. That, combined
with a lack of personal experience working with aliens or even much in
the way of contact with them, gives reason and justification as to why
she might be uncomfortable around them.
Similarly she has the
capacity to grow as a character and change her mind about this whole
thing and grows to be proud to fight alongside aliens.
Also for what it's worth:
On Virmire Ashley happily volunteers to assist the Salarian team.
She's seen talking to Kirrahe in the beginning and subsequently
volunteers to aid the Salarian team in the battle ahead. If you listen
to her on the com chatter you can tell that even though she is the lone
human in a team of aliens she is having no difficulty working with them
and is even demonstrating a degree respect towards them.
If you take Ashley to the Citadel and to the Terra Firma rally, she
will oppose their attitude to human and alien policies. She'll say that
she believes the party once had noble goals but are now being run by
racists and that citing Shanxi as a justification to hold onto hatred of
aliens is insensitive and to completely militarily oppose alien
governments is just 'looking for a fight'.
During an elevator conversation between her and Tali, Ashley will
point out that some humans are angry at the Quarians for the attack on
Eden Prime given that Quarians made the Geth. She will then add that
hopefully seeing Tali assist in the mission against Saren will change
people's minds about the Quarians.
Also on the Citadel, Ashley will note that she would quite like to
live in the wards. Tell me, would a xenophobic racist actually WANT to
move into a place populated by all kinds of different cultures and alien
races?
Also after Benezia dies, Ashley suggests to Shepard to go and talk to
Liara and comfort her. Telling her that she just lost her mum and
'that's gotta hurt'. She says it in a very sympathetic tone which
implies that she is empathizing with Liara's current situation.
Likewise if you pick Ashley in the romance conflict scene and Liara
walks away Ashley will note that she feels sorry for Liara, arguing that
'no one should have to feel like they aren't good enough to get what
they want'. If Shepard then points out that Ashley a moment ago was very
vicious towards Liara, Ashley will admit that her anger was actually
aimed at Shepard.
Point is, Ashley might have issues with aliens due to the bad family
history and lack of personal experience but she's also a far cry from
being a true racist.

Ehhh, okay that's that done.

Anyway OT:
The only one that earns particular spite from me is Miranda. Meaning no offence to the Miranda fans out there but I just didn't like her.

Her personality was schisophrenic, randomly leaping between 'cold and heartless authority figure' and 'cheerful and friendly co-worker'. Her face is buried deep in the uncanny valley in a way that is more terrifying then the Collectors and the Reapers combined. I can't stand all the immature shots of her rump, as not only are they immature but they only serve to undermine any severity of anything she ever says which in turn undermines her as a character.
I just didn't like her, and couldn't bring myself to ever warm to her no matter how many times I tried I always end up siding with Jack in the confrontation. Again, I mean no offence to Miranda's fanbase but this is just what I see.

*Sigh*  Look dude, I'm too tired to read your entire post so I'm just going to tell you this. Alot of people think Ash is racist on these forums. What you say is never going to change their minds. So please for next time, don't trouble yourself so much over such trivial things.

[V-rex]

bobobo878 wrote...

Ashley is the one who needed to calm down, she's the one who shot.

She was told to step in if negotiations failed. That is what she had been specifically instructed to do.

He wasn't really going to shoot, I had it all under control.

He had a gun and was pointing it right at you after you had lowered your weapon. Why continue to point a gun at someone unless you are going to shoot them?
Plus he said very clearly:
"No more talk Shepard, I've got to do this my way."

Incidently if you ever want to get the full experience of Wrex doing things 'his way' just ask Fist. The unarmed prisoner with a shotgun hole in his chest.

Maybe she thought he was going to shoot, but my opinion is the one that matters.

Quite arrogant considering your life could well have been in danger. Would your opinion still matter if your brains were splattered across the sand?
Considering you were her superior officer and she had been specifically ordered to protect you, it just wasn't a gamble Ashley could afford to take.

Listen, dude, I love Wrex. He's my best Krogan buddy in the entire galaxy, but there's no denying what probably would have happened had Ashley not stepped in.

[Cheesy Blue]

V-rex wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Ashley is the one who needed to calm down, she's the one who shot.

She was told to step in if negotiations failed. That is what she had been specifically instructed to do.

He wasn't really going to shoot, I had it all under control.

He had a gun and was pointing it right at you after you had lowered your weapon. Why continue to point a gun at someone unless you are going to shoot them?
Plus he said very clearly:
"No more talk Shepard, I've got to do this my way."

Incidently if you ever want to get the full experience of Wrex doing things 'his way' just ask Fist. The unarmed prisoner with a shotgun hole in his chest.

Maybe she thought he was going to shoot, but my opinion is the one that matters.

Quite arrogant considering your life could well have been in danger. Would your opinion still matter if your brains were splattered across the sand?
Considering you were her superior officer and she had been specifically ordered to protect you, it just wasn't a gamble Ashley could afford to take.

Listen, dude, I love Wrex. He's my best Krogan buddy in the entire galaxy, but there's no denying what probably would have happened had Ashley not stepped in.

Bro! Just calm down!

[Chuvvy]

I was never a huge fan of Tali, or the Quarians in general. Something about them just irks me. They have a superiority complex that's largely baseless and seem to blame everyone for their problems. They never really look in the mirror and say, "Maybe we ****ed up." and from what I've gathered, they haven't done much except wander around for the past few hundred years.

Also Talis fanbase doesn't help. I was lukewarm on her until I realized how insane her fanbase is.

[V-rex]

Cheesy Blue wrote...

*Sigh*  Look dude, I'm too tired to read your entire post so I'm just going to tell you this. Alot of people think Ash is racist on these forums. What you say is never going to change their minds. So please for next time, don't trouble yourself so much over such trivial things.

Honestly?
It's actually kind of a relief to be back to arguing trivial things. I've spent the last few weeks trying to debate real world political and social issues with people and frankly it's a lot more stressful then arguing the trivial stuff.
I know it probably won't change people's minds, but you come onto forums for dicussion and what is an argument if not a heated discussion?

EDIT: Incidently, I'm calm. I'm calmer then I've been in a few weeks. Wall of texting is just something I do.

Modifié par V-rex, 25 mai 2011 - 10:00 .

[Argable]

Whether or not she's justified in being distrustful of aliens, the first impression you get of her is a character constantly complaining about all the aliens in a game where you're excited about all the aliens you're learning about. The character isn't poorly written, she's just constantly peeing in your cheerios unless you actively take an interest in her back story and development.

[Seboist]

marshalleck wrote...

I don't like the fact that Liara alone has plot armor invulnerability.

Liara's plot invulnerability puts Steven Seagal to shame.

[Chuvvy]

Seboist wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

I don't like the fact that Liara alone has plot armor invulnerability.

Liara's plot invulnerability puts Steven Seagal to shame.

Steve Seagal's inabilty to roundhouse kick because he's to old and fat puts Steven Seagal to shame.

[mi55ter]

I'm sure somebody has mentioned it already, excuse me for not reading all the posts and quoting where it's been said. I just "hate" some characters for their survivability and AI behaviour on the battlefield. Some characters have OK AI, but go down in a flash anyways, and end up just being medigel black holes. It's especially irritating early game, when you can only carry around like 2 with you before upgrades.
Other characters' AI just gets on my nerves and is even distracting mid battle. I'm busy toasting somebody, then so and so character struts right thru the thick of things and hops up on a crate in front of a YMIR mech or miniboss. I can't help but lose my concentration (dangerous, on Insanity) and just wonder WTF they're doing, how they can perform so badly.
As for personally liking or disliking the characters (lines, personality, loyalty missions, background), I really like them all and appreciate the effort Bioware put into writing them. I still enjoy that part of the game, even now that I'm on my kazillionth playthru.

[008Zulu]

Kaiden. Its the voice, cant get past the whiny sound the V.A did in Knights of the Old Republic.
Thane. I don't know why, he just bugs me.

[Cheesy Blue]

Slidell505 wrote...

I was never a huge fan of Tali, or the Quarians in general. Something about them just irks me. They have a superiority complex that's largely baseless and seem to blame everyone for their problems. They never really look in the mirror and say, "Maybe we ****ed up." and from what I've gathered, they haven't done much except wander around for the past few hundred years.

Also Talis fanbase doesn't help. I was lukewarm on her until I realized how insane her fanbase is.

I don't see what your basing these opinions of Quarians on. I haven't seen a Quarian that has a smug sense of superiority at all. If anything they seem rather ashamed of themselves. If anything at least in my opinion the Quarians should be praised by the other races for their society that so willingly cooperates with eachother and the individuals who eliminate themsleves from the equation of their lives and only think of others.

In terms of your looking in mirror quote, It seems Quarians do this everyday when they wake up in their enviro suits. They embrace the fact that they screwed up with the Geth. I would say in general Quarian mindset is " Yeah, we ****ed up and were paying for the sins of our fathers everyday of our lives. We will fix the mistakes of our ancestors made and kill every single one of those genocidal killing machines that took the lives of our Grandfathers and are slowly taking the lives of us today!"

In terms of them wandering for 300 years. Do you think we would be any diffrent if we lost 99% of our species and were forced to flee all our planets with nothing but a rag tag fleet of starships.

I know this is discussion of characters and not species, but it seems that your reasons for disliking Tali are based from your hatred towards the Quarians. I dont know if what I have said has changed your opinion but I at least hope it has given you a new insight into the general existance of the Quarians.

Modifié par Cheesy Blue, 25 mai 2011 - 10:27 .

[V-rex]

Cheesy Blue wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

I was never a huge fan of Tali, or the Quarians in general. Something about them just irks me. They have a superiority complex that's largely baseless and seem to blame everyone for their problems. They never really look in the mirror and say, "Maybe we ****ed up." and from what I've gathered, they haven't done much except wander around for the past few hundred years.

Also Talis fanbase doesn't help. I was lukewarm on her until I realized how insane her fanbase is.

I don't see what your basing these opinions of Quarians on. I haven't seen a Quarian that has a smug sense of superiority at all. If anything they seem rather ashamed of themselves. If anything at least in my opinion the Quarians should be praised by the other races for their society that so willingly cooperates with eachother and the individuals who eliminate themsleves from the equation of their lives and only think of others.

In terms of your looking in mirror quote, It seems Quarians do this everyday when they wake up in their enviro suits. They embrace the fact that they screwed up with the Geth. I would say in general Quarian mindset is " Yeah, we ****ed up and were paying for the sins of our fathers everyday of our lives. We will fix the mistakes of our ancestors made and kill every single one of those genocidal killing machines that took the lives of our Grandfathers and are slowly taking the lives of us today!"

In terms of them wandering for 300 years. Do you think we would be any diffrent if we lost 99% of our species and were forced to flee all our planets with nothing but a rag tag fleet of starships.

I know this is discussion of characters and not species, but it seems that your reasons for disliking Tali are based form your hatred towards the Quarians. I don;t know if what I have said has changed your opinion but I at least hope it has given you a new insight into the general existance of the Quarians.

*Sigh*  Look dude, I'm too tired to read your entire post so I'm just
going to tell you this. Alot of people think the Quarians are at fault on these
forums. What you say is never going to change their minds. So please for
next time, don't trouble yourself so much over such trivial things.



Okay but seriously though, the Geth did attack the Quarians. But only after the Quarians made an attempt to systematically destroy all of them. If the Quarians could at least actually admit fault in that regard, they would be easier to sympathize with. But they don't.
The Geth also aren't 'slowly killing them off'... they haven't done ANYTHING to the Quarians in over three hundred years unless the Quarians actively attack them.

But look I really don't care for these debates because the answer is simple:
Both sides were dicks to a surgically precisely equal degree

The Quarians were dicks for responding to a newly formed sentient intelligence that asked if it had a soul with fear and hostility and attempts at mass violence.

The Geth were dicks for responding in kind and subsequently almost wiping the entire Quarian race out of existence.

The Quarians are dicks for constantly being unable to let the past be the past and attacking the Geth.

And the Geth are dicks for isolating themselves from the rest of the galaxy and responding to every ship that enters their territory with hostility.

NO ONE owns the moral high ground here. NO ONE gets the stand up and say they were innocent and NO ONE gets to play victim. Both sides were dicks.
The sooner people get this, the happier we all can be.

[CroGamer002]

armass wrote...

What you trying to change my opinion now? Good luck with that.

No, just you didn't even tried to investigate Kasumi's character.

[Chuvvy]

Cheesy Blue wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

I was never a huge fan of Tali, or the Quarians in general. Something about them just irks me. They have a superiority complex that's largely baseless and seem to blame everyone for their problems. They never really look in the mirror and say, "Maybe we ****ed up." and from what I've gathered, they haven't done much except wander around for the past few hundred years.

Also Talis fanbase doesn't help. I was lukewarm on her until I realized how insane her fanbase is.

I don't see what your basing these opinions of Quarians on. I haven't seen a Quarian that has a smug sense of superiority at all. If anything they seem rather ashamed of themselves. If anything at least in my opinion the Quarians should be praised by the other races for their society that so willingly cooperates with eachother and the individuals who eliminate themsleves from the equation of their lives and only think of others.

In terms of your looking in mirror quote, It seems Quarians do this everyday when they wake up in their enviro suits. They embrace the fact that they screwed up with the Geth. I would say in general Quarian mindset is " Yeah, we ****ed up and were paying for the sins of our fathers everyday of our lives. We will fix the mistakes of our ancestors made and kill every single one of those genocidal killing machines that took the lives of our Grandfathers and are slowly taking the lives of us today!"

In terms of them wandering for 300 years. Do you think we would be any diffrent if we lost 99% of our species and were forced to flee all our planets with nothing but a rag tag fleet of starships.

I know this is discussion of characters and not species, but it seems that your reasons for disliking Tali are based from your hatred towards the Quarians. I dont know if what I have said has changed your opinion but I at least hope it has given you a new insight into the general existance of the Quarians.

Tali displays many of the characteristics that I listed, in my opinon but you don't see the Quarians the way I do. And it's five something am and I haven't slept in a day and a half and I don't feel like getting in a debate.

[Cheesy Blue]

V-rex wrote...

Cheesy Blue wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

I was never a huge fan of Tali, or the Quarians in general. Something about them just irks me. They have a superiority complex that's largely baseless and seem to blame everyone for their problems. They never really look in the mirror and say, "Maybe we ****ed up." and from what I've gathered, they haven't done much except wander around for the past few hundred years.

Also Talis fanbase doesn't help. I was lukewarm on her until I realized how insane her fanbase is.

I don't see what your basing these opinions of Quarians on. I haven't seen a Quarian that has a smug sense of superiority at all. If anything they seem rather ashamed of themselves. If anything at least in my opinion the Quarians should be praised by the other races for their society that so willingly cooperates with eachother and the individuals who eliminate themsleves from the equation of their lives and only think of others.

In terms of your looking in mirror quote, It seems Quarians do this everyday when they wake up in their enviro suits. They embrace the fact that they screwed up with the Geth. I would say in general Quarian mindset is " Yeah, we ****ed up and were paying for the sins of our fathers everyday of our lives. We will fix the mistakes of our ancestors made and kill every single one of those genocidal killing machines that took the lives of our Grandfathers and are slowly taking the lives of us today!"

In terms of them wandering for 300 years. Do you think we would be any diffrent if we lost 99% of our species and were forced to flee all our planets with nothing but a rag tag fleet of starships.

I know this is discussion of characters and not species, but it seems that your reasons for disliking Tali are based form your hatred towards the Quarians. I don;t know if what I have said has changed your opinion but I at least hope it has given you a new insight into the general existance of the Quarians.

*Sigh*  Look dude, I'm too tired to read your entire post so I'm just
going to tell you this. Alot of people think the Quarians are at fault on these
forums. What you say is never going to change their minds. So please for
next time, don't trouble yourself so much over such trivial things.



Okay but seriously though, the Geth did attack the Quarians. But only after the Quarians made an attempt to systematically destroy all of them. If the Quarians could at least actually admit fault in that regard, they would be easier to sympathize with. But they don't.
The Geth also aren't 'slowly killing them off'... they haven't done ANYTHING to the Quarians in over three hundred years unless the Quarians actively attack them.

But look I really don't care for these debates because the answer is simple:
Both sides were dicks to a surgically precisely equal degree

The Quarians were dicks for responding to a newly formed sentient intelligence that asked if it had a soul with fear and hostility and attempts at mass violence.

The Geth were dicks for responding in kind and subsequently almost wiping the entire Quarian race out of existence.

The Quarians are dicks for constantly being unable to let the past be the past and attacking the Geth.

And the Geth are dicks for isolating themselves from the rest of the galaxy and responding to every ship that enters their territory with hostility.

NO ONE owns the moral high ground here. NO ONE gets the stand up and say they were innocent and NO ONE gets to play victim. Both sides were dicks.
The sooner people get this, the happier we all can be.

Ugh, this is redundant. But since I'm in the mood for debating and derailing my own thread, here we go.

*Cracks Knuckles*

1. I'm not taking sides with the Quarians or the Geth. I just think that the selfless aspects of the Quarian mindset are something every organic can aspire to.

2. I think both sides commited massive atrocities against eachother as in all wars.

3. Quarians, at least some of them admit what they did was wrong (Admiral Korris for example).

4. I think if Humanity was put into the same scenrio we would be just as bad if not worse than the Quarians.

5. Past be the past? The Geth are currently withholding territory that rightfully belongs to the Quarians. The Geth say they do not want conflict, yet they have not made any attempt of peace talks nor show any signs ceasing aggresion.

6. God Danmit I'm really tired I forgot what I was talking about.

So anyway, that was my counter point to your counter point that was countering to my point.. So yeah, good day sir.

[efrgfhnm_]

I personally didn't like Jack, she just seemed to have no redeeming features. She was initially portrayed as a badass, but never showed anything like that kind of power again, the writing for her lines just seemed to be lazy and through in a "****" every now and then to show shes hard...
Tali, I would like her a lot more if it wasn't for her fanbase constantly saying that she's flawless, should be brought back every time, should be an admiral despite having no leadership skills yadda yadda yadda. She did slightly annoy me anyway, she again seemed quite one-dimensional and unoriginal. And the fact that she is being brought back AGAIN for ME3 doesn't help......

[efrgfhnm_]

Cheesy Blue wrote...

snip

Ugh, this is redundant. But since I'm in the mood for debating and derailing my own thread, here we go.

*Cracks Knuckles*

1. I'm not taking sides with the Quarians or the Geth. I just think that the selfless aspects of the Quarian mindset are something every organic can aspire to.

2. I think both sides commited massive atrocities against eachother as in all wars.

3. Quarians, at least some of them admit what they did was wrong (Admiral Korris for example).

4. I think if Humanity was put into the same scenrio we would be just as bad if not worse than the Quarians.

5. Past be the past? The Geth are currently withholding territory that rightfully belongs to the Quarians. The Geth say they do not want conflict, yet they have not made any attempt of peace talks nor show any signs ceasing aggresion.

6. God Danmit I'm really tired I forgot what I was talking about.

So anyway, that was my counter point to your counter point that was countering to my point.. So yeah, good day sir.

I have foolishly decided to get involved, and want to say that despite the insistence of the talimancers, the quarians are more at fault. I mean they are the ones who attempted to wipe out the geth, they struck the first blow, they attempted genocide first. Since the geth were stationed on quarian worlds, its not exactly like the could run away, it was logical to stand and fight. They haven't attacked the quarians unprovoked, and apart from a faction which is ostracised by the rest of the species, haven't attacked anyone else. Judging them based on the heretics actions would be the same as judging humanity on the actions of Cerberus

Modifié par efrgfhnm , 25 mai 2011 - 11:04 .