252 réponses à ce sujet

[Huntress]

There are many things I deslike of DA2, but the game has many more things that I like!
I agree with olivia's points! One more thing that I liked alot in DA2 is the new crafting system, nothing alike to DAA crafting system, thanks the god's!

[Davasar]

It did a great job of:

selling poorly,
alienating a great portion of their fan base
dumbing down features


There ya go.

[ItsTheTruth]

Awesome "Uninstall" button.

[SkittlesKat96]

Davasar wrote...

It did a great job of:

selling poorly,
alienating a great portion of their fan base
dumbing down features


There ya go.

Dragon Age 2 is selling reasonably well actually...
They did dumb down some features but some of the stuff they have done is for the better and now they have a foundation to work on to make the next games better.

Also the oldschool Rpg fanbase of Bioware isn't a great portion of their fanbase, the people angry at the dumbing down of features aren't a large portion either, a lot of people like me who dislike the game are just annoyed at them for rushing the game and not polishing it's features enough. 

Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 01 juin 2011 - 04:40 .

[ItsTheTruth]

SkittlesKat96 wrote...
They did dumb down some features but some of the stuff they have done is for the better and now they have a foundation to work on to make the next games better.

You know what foundation they should have worked on for the next Dragon Age games: Dragon Age: Origins.

[In Exile]

ItsTheTruth wrote...

You know what foundation they should have worked on for the next Dragon Age games: Dragon Age: Origins.

I'm not seeing how that gets us back to a good game.

But seriously, I think DA:O needed a combat revamp. Bioware didn't get it right at all, but DA:O was anti-fun at times, and essentially auto-play at worst.

DA2 managed to pick all of the design elements that made DA:O a poor game and retain them; but many fans went in with the mindset that DA2 had to impress to make up for the departure from origins, and that sealed the game's fate.

Modifié par In Exile, 01 juin 2011 - 07:29 .

[neppakyo]

In Exile wrote...

ItsTheTruth wrote...

You know what foundation they should have worked on for the next Dragon Age games: Dragon Age: Origins.

I'm not seeing how that gets us back to a good game.

Maybe meant to work on/improve all the good parts in DAO, instead of chucking everything out?

[In Exile]

neppakyo wrote...

Maybe meant to work on/improve all the good parts in DAO, instead of chucking everything out?

DA:O came toghether as a game very well. But, honestly, I think it's hard to find any single element that DA:O handled brilliantly.

[Xewaka]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Empathy is a lie.

You mean cake is a lie.

Empathy is cake.

if P = Q, R = Q; then P = R
Go go logic!

In Exile wrote...
DA:O came toghether as a game very well.
But, honestly, I think it's hard to find any single element that DA:O handled brilliantly.

I'd answer to that: Origins (as introductions to the world setting, playing all six Origins is a brilliant way to introduce the setting) and content information for dialogue choice (as we had the full line, therefore all the needed content was present in the line).

Modifié par Xewaka, 01 juin 2011 - 08:04 .

[addiction21]

In Exile wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

Maybe meant to work on/improve all the good parts in DAO, instead of chucking everything out?

DA:O came toghether as a game very well. But, honestly, I think it's hard to find any single element that DA:O handled brilliantly.

Companions

[ItsTheTruth]

In Exile wrote...

DA:O came toghether as a game very well. But, honestly, I think it's hard to find any single element that DA:O handled brilliantly.

Combat, story, progression...

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

But seriously, I think DA:O needed a combat revamp. Bioware didn't get it right at all, but DA:O was anti-fun at times, and essentially auto-play at worst.

I like DAO's combat.  A lot.

If I were to rank BioWare's games based solely on how much I enjoyed the combat, DAO would be second (behind NWN).

[neppakyo]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I like DAO's combat.  A lot.

If I were to rank BioWare's games based solely on how much I enjoyed the combat, DAO would be second (behind NWN).

I liked DA:O's and NWN's combat a lot too. DA2's combat made me a frustrated sad panda.

Need more combat logs to show numbers! Like NWN!

Modifié par neppakyo, 01 juin 2011 - 06:13 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

neppakyo wrote...

I liked DA:O's and NWN's combat a lot too. DA2's combat made me a frustrated sad panda.

Need more combat logs to show numbers! Like NWN!

A combat log is absolutely something I want to see return.  Just put a text box in the UI and use it for all the feedback.

DA2's combat, as I get used to it, isn't my least favourite BioWare combat.  It wins points for being pausable and stat-driven.  I rank DA2's combat ahead of JE, ME, and ME2 combat.

DA2's combat actually reminds me a lot of KotOR's combat, which was fun, but had serious problems.  DA2's combat has fewer identifiable problems, but somehow fails to be fun.

[neppakyo]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

A combat log is absolutely something I want to see return.  Just put a text box in the UI and use it for all the feedback.

DA2's combat, as I get used to it, isn't my least favourite BioWare combat.  It wins points for being pausable and stat-driven.  I rank DA2's combat ahead of JE, ME, and ME2 combat.

DA2's combat actually reminds me a lot of KotOR's combat, which was fun, but had serious problems.  DA2's combat has fewer identifiable problems, but somehow fails to be fun.

I love seeing numbers of attacks, resistances, spells etc. I find it fun.

DA2's combat felt repetative and some much drudgery. Not to mention the horrible camera on the PC version.

[erynnar]

In Exile wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

Maybe meant to work on/improve all the good parts in DAO, instead of chucking everything out?

DA:O came toghether as a game very well. But, honestly, I think it's hard to find any single element that DA:O handled brilliantly.

DAO, just to comment before I get to what DA2 did right.: Companions, combat (just needed to be sped up but not to DA2 speeds, in the middle), armor and weapons, codexes, descriptions of items and on items (Sir Galen's Sword: "Somewhere on the battlefield there's a bewildered knight fighting with his dinner fork, pity him." need I say more), the art style of the darkspawn (creepy, nasty, I didn't want to touch them, that was good); they hit the sweet spot on cinematics (it was just right, unlike DA2 where it was just too much, including losing out on loot because of them).  I could go on. But I think you get the picture.  Was DAO perfect? Nope. Could it have been better in some ways? Yep. Could it have been improved upon? Yep. Was it? Not by my book (fixing what wasn't broke, sorry Mr. Laidlaw, you and I will have to agree to disagree on that one).

On to what I liked about DA2 (and John Epler this is for you, and my apology to you.  I am sorry sweetie, I was being snarky not serious, there are things about DA2 I liked and loved. Hope you'll forgive me).

1) I liked the companions, so much so I got greedy and wanted more time with them. Let's face it, BioWare really does this well, and I miss not having companions who travel with me in other games. BioWare spoils me in this way!

2) I really loved the new combat animations for mages and rogues. Some disagree thinking the mages will spin and fall down (that could be helped by a middle ground on the speed between DA2 and DAO, I think). But I love the staff movements (no more poking the air with a stick). And I love the martial arts rogue animations. I admit my Warden in my fanfic is a rogue (stabbity stabbity kill kill is my fav) and she does a martial arts style so it may have to do with ego stroking on my part, that and I am a sucker for Bruce Lee and martial arts movies, so for me they rocked.

3) I loved how pretty the Wounded Coast was (no I am not going into reused areas or lack of wildlife, that has been covered elsewhere). I though the sky and the landscape were beautiful. So was the cave.  I liked the look of the freaky thaig (one crit the lyrium trees, meh). I liked the statues and the way it looked different from the thaigs in DAO and from Orzammar.

4) Voice acting (Male Hake, so so, but still better than other games I've played)...as always, it was excellent. BioWare never seems to have any trouble finding talented people to voice NPCs or companions.

5) Varric...need I say more? It really is the chest hair, it's addictive.

Okay I have more, but I have to shut off my computer at work and make my way home.

[Tommy6860]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

I liked DA:O's and NWN's combat a lot too. DA2's combat made me a frustrated sad panda.

Need more combat logs to show numbers! Like NWN!

A combat log is absolutely something I want to see return.  Just put a text box in the UI and use it for all the feedback.

DA2's combat, as I get used to it, isn't my least favourite BioWare combat.  It wins points for being pausable and stat-driven.  I rank DA2's combat ahead of JE, ME, and ME2 combat.

DA2's combat actually reminds me a lot of KotOR's combat, which was fun, but had serious problems.  DA2's combat has fewer identifiable problems, but somehow fails to be fun.

I agree about the combat log, that is always great reading after doing some battles. But I disagree with the KOTOR comparison. The combat style fits the game and the game lore of futuristic fighters with telekinectic powers of SW. I think it even goes right along with the SW books and movie action. Still though, you didn't even see the unrealistic teleporting backstabs and and fighters handling weapons that appeared to weigh the same as their bodies whie swiging them around like they were made of balsa wood. KOTOR was in the very least, consistent with the lore and at the very least, plausible.

Modifié par Tommy6860, 01 juin 2011 - 09:22 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Tommy6860 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

I liked DA:O's and NWN's combat a lot too. DA2's combat made me a frustrated sad panda.

Need more combat logs to show numbers! Like NWN!

A combat log is absolutely something I want to see return.  Just put a text box in the UI and use it for all the feedback.

DA2's combat, as I get used to it, isn't my least favourite BioWare combat.  It wins points for being pausable and stat-driven.  I rank DA2's combat ahead of JE, ME, and ME2 combat.

DA2's combat actually reminds me a lot of KotOR's combat, which was fun, but had serious problems.  DA2's combat has fewer identifiable problems, but somehow fails to be fun.

I agree about the combat log, that is always great reading after doing some battles. But I disagree with the KOTOR comparison. The combat style fits the game and the game lore of futuristic fighters with telekinectic powers of SW. I think it even goes right along with the SW books and movie action. Still though, you didn't even see the unrealistic teleporting backstabs and and fighters handling weapons that appeared to weigh the same as their bodies whie swiging them around like they were made of balsa wood. KOTOR was in the very least, consistent with the lore and at the very least, plausible.

I think the design of KotOR's combat was excellent.  But some aspects, particularly party control and positioning, were poorly implemented.  KotOR only allowed movement in real-time, so you couldn't direct two characters to run to a location simultaneously.  And while you could queue up actions (something I strongly support), the queues didn't persist if you took control of another character, so you could tell the PC to do three things in sequence, but if you then took control of Mission before that sequence was complete the PC would abandon the queue and just act according to AI instructions.

KotOR really only allowed the player to control one character at a time, and that is the serious problem to which I was referring.

[Tommy6860]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

I liked DA:O's and NWN's combat a lot too. DA2's combat made me a frustrated sad panda.

Need more combat logs to show numbers! Like NWN!

A combat log is absolutely something I want to see return.  Just put a text box in the UI and use it for all the feedback.

DA2's combat, as I get used to it, isn't my least favourite BioWare combat.  It wins points for being pausable and stat-driven.  I rank DA2's combat ahead of JE, ME, and ME2 combat.

DA2's combat actually reminds me a lot of KotOR's combat, which was fun, but had serious problems.  DA2's combat has fewer identifiable problems, but somehow fails to be fun.

I agree about the combat log, that is always great reading after doing some battles. But I disagree with the KOTOR comparison. The combat style fits the game and the game lore of futuristic fighters with telekinectic powers of SW. I think it even goes right along with the SW books and movie action. Still though, you didn't even see the unrealistic teleporting backstabs and and fighters handling weapons that appeared to weigh the same as their bodies whie swiging them around like they were made of balsa wood. KOTOR was in the very least, consistent with the lore and at the very least, plausible.

I think the design of KotOR's combat was excellent.  But some aspects, particularly party control and positioning, were poorly implemented.  KotOR only allowed movement in real-time, so you couldn't direct two characters to run to a location simultaneously.  And while you could queue up actions (something I strongly support), the queues didn't persist if you took control of another character, so you could tell the PC to do three things in sequence, but if you then took control of Mission before that sequence was complete the PC would abandon the queue and just act according to AI instructions.

KotOR really only allowed the player to control one character at a time, and that is the serious problem to which I was referring.

I didn't expect KOTOR to play like that as it was designed the way it was and tactical aprty control wasn't part of it. I could however, click on one of my companions, then engage an enemy, then choose another and do the same thing again, so in a sense I had soem control. I also had no ability to even look up or down in KOTOR, where as in DA2, you had some semblance of a tactical view, etc, but again, taht was the design of the game. Also in KOTOR, my companions would attack other enemies while I could fight others, even when moving away from their point action, they could be far away. I couldn't do that in DA2 as my companions were leashed to me. I mean think about it, you're comparing games that are 8 years apart in design as well.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Tommy6860 wrote...

I mean think about it, you're comparing games that are 8 years apart in design as well.

My standards of quality don't change.

[Tommy6860]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

I mean think about it, you're comparing games that are 8 years apart in design as well.

My standards of quality don't change.

And your standards of quality are only subjective to your own tastes, they are not indicative of everyone elses. To me KOTOR is the superior overall role playing game. I consider all aspects of a game's quality. To me, those unrealistic aspects of combat in DA2 are near game breaking elements, whereas the flaws I saw in KOTOR are excusable to the theme of the game, but that is me..

[Sylvius the Mad]

Tommy6860 wrote...

To me KOTOR is the superior overall role playing game. I consider all aspects of a game's quality.

I completely agree.  KotOR is vastly superior to DA2.

To me, those unrealistic aspects of combat in DA2 are near game breaking elements, whereas the flaws I saw in KOTOR are excusable to the theme of the game, but that is me.

I don't hate DA2's combat system.  It has significant problems, yes (mostly the asymmetic rules and the overall speed of combat), but it's far from my least favourite thing about the game.

I'm also not counting the encounter design as part of the combat system.  I do think DA2's encounter design is terrible, while KotOR's was generally quite good.

But KotOR also offered much better roleplaying opportunities than DA2 does, and it allowed customisation of the companions.  KotOR is a much better game, I think.

[LadyJaneGrey]

The one keystroke to open a lootable object and the same keystroke to take all items.  This OCD player realized how helpful it is after firing up Origins again.  Whoever did this deserves a high-five and a trip to the local pub.  

Modifié par LadyJaneGrey, 01 juin 2011 - 11:42 .

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

KotOR also offered more freedom of play. Sure, it had it's own linear points, but it was nice to be able to choose which planets you could go to after Taris (sp?). At least I appreciated the illusion of freedom and the restrictions usually had significant plot reasons. I just wanted to leave Kirkwall all the time, it just seems so suffocating and unchanging over the years the plot takes place. For a city that claims it is overcrowded with reffugees, it sure is empty.

Also the classes in KotOR are far less restrictive to me. Each class has it's fundamental strengths and weaknesses but they are all fairly flexible and not completely restrictive of the feats you can pick up along the way. Nonsensical restrictions like banned a warrior from dual wielding, using ranged weapons or keeping a smuggler from using a two handed weapon are not inforced in KotOR.

Characters, plot, combat depth all seemed better. It's why I still play KotOR now and then, and I'm not even a huge Star Wars fan.

[FiachSidhe]

ItsTheTruth wrote...

In Exile wrote...

DA:O came toghether as a game very well. But, honestly, I think it's hard to find any single element that DA:O handled brilliantly.

Combat, story, progression...

Combat was highly flawed, slow, with an over reliance on bad auto-pathing. Auto attacking is the worst concept in video gaming besides turn based combat, having to waste skill points/attributes on conversation options is lame.

Aside from removing two antiquated combat designs that made combat awkard, the system was exactly the same. You still cast spells using hot buttons, or by pausing the game and selecting from the wheel.
The ony difference is, you don't need the game to auto-move you around until it decides that you can attack, and it moves faster.

Story, the story in DA is different, not worse. DAO's story is much less original than DA2's and the characters are far more prone to tropes.

Progression - No clue what you mean by this.

Modifié par FiachSidhe, 02 juin 2011 - 12:26 .