37 réponses à ce sujet

[Crackseed]

I haven't tried the "siding with the Werewolves" option yet btw - does it come across as more evil? It seems hard to justify it from a good guy sense save for the fact that Zathrian is obsessed <.<

[Eliende]

crackseed wrote...

It sucks that we as players try to figure out ways things could have worked but at the end of the day we are dealing with a game that has finite possibilities and requires some suspension of disbelief.

A good example is in the human noble origin. You find your father bleeding out. He keeps saying he won't make it and to leave w/o him despite you wanting to bring him along.

Enter the irritation I felt as a player in the real world since I could easily meta-game up ideas to fix this - I mean after all I had 7 health poultices on my person. They heal me from the brink of death a couple times. Why couldn't I ram a couple down his throat and be like "There! Now let's go!" - no, instead I am forced to accept that he will die no matter the outcome.

To make the game have appropriate scope and a feeling of sadness, in order to futher the epic scale and tale, some things have to be sacrificed. It just sucks since we as players can see many ways around it - but cannot act on it beyond what the game presents as options.

Yeah, that does sound very weird to me... And that is, generally, a problem with games that have that kind of magic healing. All these "my dying speech" things just become silly. "Yeah, quit yapping and start gobbling up the potions, than you can talk my ears off without dying you moron!"

[Eliende]

crackseed wrote...

I haven't tried the "siding with the Werewolves" option yet btw - does it come across as more evil? It seems hard to justify it from a good guy sense save for the fact that Zathrian is obsessed <.<

Can you even play evil in this game? Even when I took some pure assassination quests it felt rather... bland. It didn't exactly feel as you were doint something wrong, the hits got all cocky and attacked first. In that sense, even Morrowind felt like a nastier game, where some victims begged for mercy or tried to flee rather than fight.

This is, in general, one of my (few) probs with the game. It doesn't exactly feel all that dark. It feels like... "dark light" if you know what I mean. A "somewhat nastier" NWN-game that aimed for The Witcher but missed due to an inability to actually go DARK.

[Suron]

Dakota Strider wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

So... you avoided Danyla entirely and thus never met her at all, and thus expect that the game should take into account that you have meta-game knowledge of her situation and thus reward you by having her husband reunited with her? Am I reading that right?

However, had this been pnp, and my character had come across Danyla as I had the first time, there would have been several options available to me that would have allowed me to save her.

1.  As previously mentioned, I could have told her that I was about to go break the curse, and she would be restored in that method.

2.  If she attacked (attempting suicide by adventurer), my group could have subdued her, than tied her up, and probably heavily sedated her (using Master Herbalism skill), and kept her from harming herself until the party broke the curse.

no you're assuming YOUR DM would have allowed this..he may not have.  He may have had it in her character that she resisted the sedation...or broke from the bonds..or whatever and got away...sure your DM woulda let you TRY those things..and maybe seemingly succeeded only to have a different outcome when you finally came back to her (escape or whatever.)

in THIS case BioWare is the DM..and they, for story sake, wanted to inject the tragedy of this...

so all-in-all...lie to yourself if you want...it's the same thing.  You have no more control over what happens in a CRPG then you do a PnP RGP...only in PnP there's a live person making the decisions on the fly......and who's to say you would have automatically succeeded in binding or sedating her?

again you assume....

yes I would have liked to have been able to get a "happy" ending to this particular quest too..but I'm not gonna, stupidly, argue how I feel it should have played out.  No more then I'd argue with my DM if he had me fail at it in a PnP either...

[TuringPoint]

Well, your quest IS to end the curse. *shrug*

[Dakota Strider]

I should not be surprised to see all the negative comments here. Seems like any endeavor in life, when you attempt to do something that is out of the norm, you will always find more people trying to tell you why it cannot be done, instead of those that try to encourage you.



Anyways, here is the conclusion I have come to:



Since finding out, that one of the options Bioware DID allow, was for Danyla to survive long enough on her own, to participate on the werewolf attack on the Dalish settlement (if the PC should choose to make that choice), there is no reason to believe she would not have survived on her own, if the PC went directly to the werewolf lair, and forced Zarathon to break the curse. That being accomplished, Danyla, being a skilled Dalish hunter, perhaps chose solitude, and hid for some time. So the PC party could not find her. I am going to assume that her husband, knowing the area better, would have better success. Also, Danyla would eventually get over her initial shock and horror, and seek out her husband, as it was very apparent talking to her, that she loved him very much.



It would have been nice for the PC to have seen the reunion, but it is not necessary. I find it far more likely to believe, that Danyla would survive this scenario, than to believe she would have killed herself. Its far easier to let someone else kill you (by attacking them), then it is to actually commit the act yourself.

[Lord Thing]

Or maybe elves have a weaker constitution and are killed during the reversal of the full curse... (hence why the elves that hadn't turned yet survived)

Also, at those complaining about the lack of truly evil choices in the game, Bioware have said a lot that DA:O is a dark heroic fantasy, and that while you can be a bastard, you can't be completely evil, as that's not heroic

[The Angry One]

David Gaider wrote...

So... you avoided Danyla entirely and thus never met her at all, and thus expect that the game should take into account that you have meta-game knowledge of her situation and thus reward you by having her husband reunited with her? Am I reading that right?

Yes, and we should be awarded with a ridable horse.

[Mesecina]

The Angry One wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

So... you avoided Danyla entirely and thus never met her at all, and thus expect that the game should take into account that you have meta-game knowledge of her situation and thus reward you by having her husband reunited with her? Am I reading that right?

Yes, and we should be awarded with a ridable horse.

No... bowstrings

[Crunchyinmilk]

Circumventing it just seems to me a way to avoid the story. If you could save everyone (that mattered) from the curse, Zathrian's actions wouldn't seem nearly so terrible. You'd essentially be mummy putting a bandaid on a scraped knee and making 'tut-tut' noises, content in your own superiority. Instead of walking into a nightmare of someone's creation and having to scrape together the best outcome you can, with a terrible cost despite your best intentions.

At what point do you really become 100% certain that any resolution of the quest results in the werewolves returning to their original form? Did you guess from earlier experience with other rpgs?

When I first met Danyla, I didn't know at the time that it was absolutely possible to save her, according to this world's lore. There's a reason you can't get the elder to speak up about what's really going on and its not until well after you should have met Danyla.

It wasn't until I saw the descendants actually revert to humans once more that I knew for certain Danyla could have been saved, and it was glorious that she was denied this by my own hand. It meant that even I had become personally mired in the mess of Zathrian's creation.

That's a far stronger and more rewarding feeling/experience than intuitively having all the answers and always saving the day.

Modifié par Crunchyinmilk, 20 novembre 2009 - 03:07 .

[Baalzie]

Bah! Humbug!
To each it's own^^
Don't bash eachothers opinions, but please keep adding Your own... That's what these forums are about yeknow^^
Adding Your own views, not bashing others ditto...

[JamesX]

I think CRPG have spoiled people thinking the world is a static world.
Why worry about the Dark Spawn, they will only trigger when I finish xxxx quest.
This even translates to paper and pencil games - much to my chagrin.

In any simulated environment that is half way decent, you change one thing you change nearly everything. By not being at spot x in a game setting event y will not happen. Which means event Z will not occur.

To say "Well because you guys are nay-sayers" is pretty ignorant.
Let us run down the facts.
1) She didn't want to live
2) She is at the brink of breaking - she even says as much when you talk to her. "The pain is too great." and didn't even have time to have a proper conversation with you.
3) If you never met her then you have no idea who she is. Then she will just be another "werewolf" amongst the dozens and dozens that you killed.

Those are the facts. Now which is more realistic
1) You weren't there at the key moment and she broke and died in violence against random things
2) You weren't there at the key moment and she killed herself rather than turning fully beastial
3) You weren't there and she turned full beastial and is now a naked elf trying to survive in the deep jungle
4) You weren't there and she turned full beastial and was killed by the player as simply another defender of their lair
5) You weren't there and she turned full beastial and was not involved in the attack against the player and was turned back into human and manage to survive the jungle and return to her camp and reunited with her husband.

Out of 5 very reasonable possibilities you had to believe 5 is the guarenteed outcome - in fact the world should turn to your wishful thinking and give you the happy ending because you circumvented all the triggers built into the game?

Modifié par JamesX, 20 novembre 2009 - 06:52 .

[Pilfer]

The most disturbing thing about this quest for me was that after I killed her I had the option to skin her body because her loot was her werewolf pelt.

Modifié par Pilfer, 01 décembre 2012 - 07:09 .