148 réponses à ce sujet

[Ship.wreck_]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...
It contains the memorable renegade line "Someone out there needs my boot up his arse!"

Just for that I'm going to replay as soon as possible!

And for the condensed water (thanks for correcting my vocabulary, that is exactly what I meant):
We have no explicit data on how fast those projectile are supposed to fly, but seeing these are hand held devices I seriously doubt they have the power to accelerate projectiles as fast as you tangled. Furthermore, as you have rightly stated, recoil limits the velocity (as also stated in the Codex).
However, we are most likely talking about a multitude several times the speed of sound that would be needed to achieve enough penetration/destructive force to do harm.
In a setting where not mass but  velocity is the determinator of force, the effects of friction would weight a lot more than on our modern projectiles.
Given how the codex draws the equation with a projectile the size of sand and the damage that is supposed to be inflicted, we are talking of massive friction.
So much in fact, I believe the air in direct vicinity to the passing projecile would superheat into plasma, rather than just vaporizing condensed water (I didn't formulated that in my previous statement so here a more refined version).
Silencers would be impracticable as they'd have to silence the entire flightpath, both by sound and light.

You're welcome, point taken either way. I was basing my assumption on the "relativistic speeds" post earlier, No bueno? Oh well. Realisticly speaking all points are moot. Total energy is a calculation of mass X velocity. The mass accellerator idea was we use a mass reducing field to increase maximum velocity, but that's pointless because totall energy will remain the same either way:

4 total energy from weapon accelerates 2 mass to a maximum of 2 velocity = 4 total energy on target.
(4 = 2 X 2 = 4)

4 total energy from weapon + mass reducing field accelerates 1 mass to a maximum of 4 velocity = 4 total energy on target.
(4 = 1 X 4 = 4)

If we apply real physics we see that given the lore of the game they're doing a crapload of work generating mass effect fields to screw with relative masses and velocities that won't really change anything at all at the end of the day when that projectile hits the target. In fact reducing the mass of the object reduces it's inetria making it more succeptable to loosing energy to air friction, while simultaneously increasing it's velocity increases the air friction it encounters. So it's going to loose a lot more energy to the air it travels through as a mass reduced velocity increased projectile, than it would if they didn't bother with the mass effect at all and just let it fly with it's normal increased mass and its normal reduced velocity. If we're going to accept the lore of the game (and I'm willing to) we have to accept the fact that it pretty much flies in the face of real physics and not think to hard (or at all) about what if we applied real physics.

If we apply real physics it all falls apart. If we accept the lore in spite of the questionable physics, there's no reason not to accept supressors. Also if it's the high tech system it's supposed to be it could simply adjust to a normal sized projectile flying at a normally low velocity for use with a suprressor so you don't get the plasma trace effect. It's automatically self adjusting, so it should easily be capable of automatically self adjusting for stealth.

[Ship.wreck_]

CaptainZaysh wrote...
Nah, it would be bad game design to put in an "I Win" button and then scold the player for using it.

Options for limiting airstrikes could be:
- "jammer" type enemies who need to be taken out before airstrikes can be called in
- presence of civilians
- setting more of the game indoors
- Normandy unable to reveal orbital position due to enemy ships (which raises the question of why isn't Shepard being airstriked)

It could all be done, but I think you'd be looking at a game that is much less space opera and much more hardcore military sim than ME was intended to be.

Good calls! As far as strike limitatations. As for why isn't Shepard being air struck? Maybe he should be!
Ssssshhhhhwwwooooooshhhhh!
"That's... not a... good sound..."
BOOOM!

Yup. Next time you hear that run for a bunker!

The thing is that all the sci fi space opera ness of the game begs the question, "Why doesn't their warfare even seem AS advanced as the contemporary?" We have air strikes today... we should at least have better air strikes by several hundred thousand tommorows.

You say space opera OR realistic immersive tactical combat. I say why the hell not both! I too love the story of ME but don't see how making combat better would necessarily ruin it.

[Ship.wreck_]

008Zulu wrote...
Maybe limit one strike per mission? The Normandy is a stealth ship, but my guess is weapons fire generates more heat than the sinks can handle.

Not if you're just droping bombs.

Infiltrators can do the whole stealth thing, even in Arrival. I got the achievable by stealthing my way past the guards even though it says you can't. Reckon its a bug, but meh.

Somehow I HIGHLY doubt that "stealth" had the tactical implications it SHOULD. Sounds to me more like in one mission or two you can sneak past a particular bad guy or two, and as a final result kill a bad guy or two less in a mission.

I'm talking about real stealth, where you can at any time in any place choose to go incogneto, bypass enemies attack priority targets behind enemy defenses, strike from concealed locations leaving large numbers of enemies defensless, assassinate top level enemies withought having to fight through myriad douch bag body gaurds, OR NOT. All at your own discression.

But Mass Effect isn't a stealth type game. Given that you are (almost) always saddled with 2 AI team members who are 10th generation dumb as rocks. The idea of succesfully being a stealther is not doable.

Mass Effect is a creative vision of the future. Creativity not withstanding it just doesn't make any sense for stealth not to be a viable approach to combat in the ME universe or any universe, ESPECIALLY for the ridiculously small 3 man team Shepard usually works with, with minimal or no support.

As for the poor AI, have you ever played SOCOM? On more than one occasion I had a squad member KILL HIMSELF by FALLING OFF A LADDER. That's how dumb those AIs were. Yet the game was based HEAVILY on stealth, tactics, and the use of your squad. For the most part in ME when I tell a squad member, "Go there." He goes there. When I say, "Shoot that guy." He shoots that guy. Which is a LOT more than I can say for SOCOM (Often having to physically push squad members to the position I want them in, saying, "Take that guy down" and getting, "No can do, SIr!" then saying *sigh*, "Fire at will" and the same guy who just claimed shooting that guy impossible immediately starts shootign at that guy.) and SOCOM pulled it off! Mass Effect could pull it off and then some WITH a bag of chips if they wanted to. The biggest obstacle would be an enemy AI that could detect you or not on and idividual basis based on your visual and audible stealth at any given time.

[StowyMcStowstow]

Ship.wreck wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...
Nah, it would be bad game design to put in an "I Win" button and then scold the player for using it.

Options for limiting airstrikes could be:
- "jammer" type enemies who need to be taken out before airstrikes can be called in
- presence of civilians
- setting more of the game indoors
- Normandy unable to reveal orbital position due to enemy ships (which raises the question of why isn't Shepard being airstriked)

It could all be done, but I think you'd be looking at a game that is much less space opera and much more hardcore military sim than ME was intended to be.

Good calls! As far as strike limitatations. As for why isn't Shepard being air struck? Maybe he should be!
Ssssshhhhhwwwooooooshhhhh!
"That's... not a... good sound..."
BOOOM!

Yup. Next time you hear that run for a bunker!

The thing is that all the sci fi space opera ness of the game begs the question, "Why doesn't their warfare even seem AS advanced as the contemporary?" We have air strikes today... we should at least have better air strikes by several hundred thousand tommorows.

You say space opera OR realistic immersive tactical combat. I say why the hell not both! I too love the story of ME but don't see how making combat better would necessarily ruin it.

It wouldn't. The people saying "you can only have one or the other!" are just being toasters and short-sighted ones at that. If all goes well, ME3 should be the best of both worlds. 

[Ship.wreck_]

CaptainZaysh wrote...
Here's another idea. The weapons could all start each mission in a silenced mode. They do slightly less damage, but if you wipe out the whole first group of enemies without them getting a shot off, your reward is that the next group is not in an "alert state" when you first set eyes on them.

Once an enemy opens fire, combat reverts to normal for the rest of the mission. This could be indicated by an order from Shepard to "Go loud!" since the stealth part of the mission is now blown.

I hate it when weapons do magically less damage because they're silenced or automatic. That doesn't make any sense, also if it can't kill very quickly by being just as powerful when silence, your bad guys just going to shoot back covers blown and suppressors are efectively USELESS.

Also this is entirely too controlled to be an effective depiction of stealth, and the idea of containing entire missions into magically segmented areas to me is attrocious. This anti tactics game making. Also the whole point of stealth is to BYPASS having to fight your way through throngs of enemies AT ALL. Go straight to and destroy the real target withouth having to mope your way through an army to do it.

[CaptainZaysh]

I dunno.

I can see how it could be done, and personally I'd love to play a version of the Mass Effect story that used all the lore and the tech. For example, instead of dropping troops to investigate Eden Prime, much of the first mission could have been carried out by remotely operated cockroach sized UAV camera drones. I would have enjoyed flying around Saren's plan as it unfolded, gathering intelligence and tactical information, before choosing when and where to drop my team.

I think it'd be fascinating to play a game of "advance to contact - airstrike - mop up with a deadly mass accelerator rifle capable of blowing up a tank two miles away".

But I think lots of people would think it was the most retarded, inaccessible game ever.

[CaptainZaysh]

Ship.wreck wrote...

I hate it when weapons do magically less damage because they're silenced or automatic. That doesn't make any sense,

Well the projectiles would need to be fired at a much lesser velocity, to avoid creating a sonic boom.

Ship.wreck wrote...
also if it can't kill very quickly by being just as powerful when silence, your bad guys just going to shoot back covers blown and suppressors are efectively USELESS.

Yeah I was thinking mostly along cosmetic lines really.

Ship.wreck wrote...
Also this is entirely too controlled to be an effective depiction of stealth, and the idea of containing entire missions into magically segmented areas to me is attrocious. This anti tactics game making. Also the whole point of stealth is to BYPASS having to fight your way through throngs of enemies AT ALL. Go straight to and destroy the real target withouth having to mope your way through an army to do it.

Which sounds great to me, but then you'd need to do a huge redesign of the gameplay.  You'd need to set up sentry and patrol AI, enemy reactions to various alerts (i.e. Shep disables a security camera.  Is a technician sent?  With guard escort?  From where i.e. how long do they take?  A sentry misses a scheduled report.  What happens?)

I'd love it, but we're talking about a very different game here.

[Someone With Mass]

I'd like the option to initiate orbital bombardment at least once in ME3.

[Ship.wreck_]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Madman123456 wrote...

[...] flow of escaping gas [...] obstruction of escaping gas

There is no propulsion gas in ME weapons.

He knows that, he was refering to the function of actuall supressors. Then after that he drew the conclusion that the massively accelerated projectile would have a high pressure wave moving through the air ahead of it as it leaves the barrel which would make a fairly loud noise and that a semi-traditional suppresor would probably help with, although other things might be required making it not quite the same as the ones we have today... which was pretty much dead on.

Someone With Mass wrote...

I think suppressors would only work for the Infiltrator.

Seems pretty redundant for the other classes.

The classes ****** me off. Even more so in ME2 where certain classes were somehow magically incapable of using certain firearms. At least in ME everyone could use anything if not particularly well. ME2s rendition just didn't make any damn sense, and rendered certain classes outright USELESS under certain circumstances.

But that's beside the point. The point is ANYONE can use a suppressor. In fact Soldiers being all around weapons expert/gurus should be just as capable of using supressors if not more so.

Someone With Mass wrote...

Anderson used silencers in Mass Effect: Revelation, where they seemed to work as the typical movie suppressors that only gives away a puff when fired. The projectile is still breaking the sound barrier when exiting the barrel, and I don't think there's a way to hide that.

One of the big high tech futuristic points of the ME weapons is that they automatically self adjust size of projectiles and velocities to optimize them under specific conditions. But somehow they're not capable of adjusting to subsonic velicities for stealth purposes?

Not that it matters either way. Suppressors aren't designed to conceal the fact that your target is being shot at from your target. Wether the projectile is sub or super sonic, he's gonna friggin notice when it flies past his dome.  Suprressors are only intended to conceal WHERE you are shooting at someone FROM. If he heres the sub sonic whiz of a bullet approaching him, then passing him, then flying away, that's gonna give him a long audio "line" to trace back to its source. Although he'll still only get a general direction. If he hears nothing as the bullet approaches him, then after the bullet passes him he hears a super sonic crack, coming from the direction the bullet was in at the time it made that sound which is just now catching up to him after the bullet passed by, then hears the bullet whizing away now that he's withing the sound "wake" left behind by the super sonic bullet it's going to give him a shorter audio "line" to trace back to your location, and a jumbled one at that. Either way, he can't narrow your exact location, the supressor has done it's job, and the bullet itself is NEVER silent.

[Someone With Mass]

Too bad that all ME weapon rounds are tracers.

[lolwut666]

Someone With Mass wrote...

I think suppressors would only work for the Infiltrator.

Seems pretty redundant for the other classes.

It think it could be useful for all classes. You don't need Cloak to be stealthy.

I think "squishy" classes like the Adept and the Engineer could benefit a lot from it.

[jamesp81]

lolwut666 wrote...

I noticed that, when Thane killed one of Nassana's guards, his pistol made the typical loud bang when he pulled the trigger.

Wouldn't it have made sense for an assassin to carry some kind of silencer device for his guns? Or does that kind of thing no longer exists in the ME universe? Why?

The problem with using silencers/suppressors is that it's not really worth your trouble for stealth purposes unless the rounds you're firing are going a subsonic velocity.

When you discharge a firearm, there are two components to the sound blast.  One is is the depressurization of the barrel as the bullet leaves the muzzle.  The other is the sonic boom of the round going downrange.  A silencer can do nothing about the sonic boom of a supersonic round.  This is not to say silencers are useless on firearms with supersonic ammunition (which would include almost every rifle ever made; generally only certain handgun rounds are subsonic) as a silencer makes it more difficult for an enemy to determine the direction the shot came from.  It also makes firing a rifle a lot more pleasant for the shooter in terms of protecthing his hearing.

The only firearms that can be truly silenced are ones that fire subsonic ammo.  147 grain 9mm ammunition is subsonic, as are most weights of 45 ACP handgun rounds.  147 grain 9mm suppresses very well and is almost "hollywood quiet".  45 ACP doesn't suppress quite as well because it's a larger caliber and, as a general rule, smaller calibers suppress more easily than larger ones.  For this reason, 9mm and 45 ACP handguns tend to suppress quite well (some 9mm ammo is supersonic, however, so ammo choice in a 9mm becomes important).  Revolvers can not be silenced because of the barrel cylinder gap (with one notable, oddball exception)

The only way to completely suppress a firearm like an M4 carbine or M16 rifle would be to use specially made subsonic ammo for it.  This presents problems.  Normal muzzle velocity for M855 5.56mm ball ammunition is roughly 3,300 feet per second from an M16A4.  The speed of sound is right around 1100 feet per second.  You can load special low power ammo down to these velocities, but such ammo would have insufficient gunpowder in it to operate an AR15 based rifle like the M16.....it would turn the rifle into a bolt action.  It would also possess poor range and pathetic stopping power.  M855 ball's projectile weighs 62 grains.  A subsonic 9mm round will probably weigh 147 grains, over three times as much, and have about the same velocity.  The great firepower advantage rifles enjoy over pistols is derived from the enormous velocity advantage they have; using subsonic ammo nullifies that advantage.

In ME, firearms seem to drive projectiles to very high velocities by today's standardsm so a suppressor would be of limited utility.  Even the handguns in ME generate velocities way above the speed of sound, and a firearm that used subsonic projectiles would likely be so worthless as to be not worth bothering with.  I doubt subsonic rounds could overcome even a poor kinetic barrier.

In ME, a suppressor/silencer could be used to protect the shooter's hearing, and it would make pinpointing the source of a long range shot a bit more difficult, but it would not be suitable for stealth applications.

Modifié par jamesp81, 26 mai 2011 - 02:02 .

[Ship.wreck_]

CaptainZaysh wrote...
Well the projectiles would need to be fired at a much lesser velocity, to avoid creating a sonic boom.

See my post above. Sub or Super sonic the bullet is never going to be silent as it passes by it's always going to make some kind of sound, and that sound is not going to reveal your location where you fired it. Only it's location as it passes by. Obviously sub sonic rounds can be more advantageous, that's why they exist, but they aren't positively necessary. Just because you're using a supressor doesn't mean you're using sub sonic ammo with it. For the vast majority games give you no control of or option to use "subsonic" ammo, it's assumed you're always using the same ammo or maybe a couple choices involving an armor piercing variety. Only game I've EVER seen with subsonic ammo specifically available was Hitman Blood Money, and that's the only game where a supressed weapon making less damage ever made sense. And even then that ONLY happened if you CHOSE to use sub sonic. For the most part this crap is conjured out of thin are with not reason, explanation or logic behind it except every video games default made up bs defense, "It was for the balance!" Ah yes, the magical ballance.

Yeah I was thinking mostly along cosmetic lines really.

I f*cking hate it when things have no use beyond the cosmetic. If it doesn't have an actuall EFFECT on anything why the f*ck is it in my game!!!!!??? So sick of that... "Well yeah, but... it... looks cool?"

Which sounds great to me, but then you'd need to do a huge redesign of the gameplay.  You'd need to set up sentry and patrol AI, enemy reactions to various alerts (i.e. Shep disables a security camera.  Is a technician sent?  With guard escort?  From where i.e. how long do they take?  A sentry misses a scheduled report.  What happens?)

I'd love it, but we're talking about a very different game here.

I think you're nukin' it (wayyyyy over thinking the problem) I'm talking about a notable improvement on enemy AI, a little more controll over team members and alot more enemies on the ground. That's all it takes to add some huge variety to the gameplay, you're over here trying to turn this crap into friggin Splinter Cell!

[Ship.wreck_]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Too bad that all ME weapon rounds are tracers.

That's a funny situation. In ME they seemed to create some kind of vissible disturbance along there path. But then in ME2 they seem to be your average run of the mill flaming projcetiles. Solution for ME style: some magical ME physics that involves a stealth system that causes that disturbance to not take place. Which is perfectly acceptable since pretty much all of the ME physics are magical anyway, as I mentioned earlier.

ME2 weapons: It's as simple as not friggin using tracers!

Wish someone would have told the makers of Modern Warfare 2 that last friggin gem! Oh yeah my SAS super soldier who conciously decided to use a supressor and a ghillie suit forgot to take the tracers out of his magazines, that's utterly friggin believable!

[lolwut666]

@amesp81

That's assuming present-day silencers are used in the ME universe, which I doubt would be the case.

Stealth is very important in combat. It's perfectly plausible to imagine that the armed forces from ME would spend quite a bit of time and resources in developing stealth technology, including devices to silence guns.

Modifié par lolwut666, 26 mai 2011 - 01:05 .

[Someone With Mass]

lolwut666 wrote...

It think it could be useful for all classes. You don't need Cloak to be stealthy.

I think "squishy" classes like the Adept and the Engineer could benefit a lot from it.

I was referring to the infiltrator, seeing how that class is using a sniper rifle.

And Adept is using biotics, so why would that class need suppressors?

Engineer is far from stealthy too.

[lolwut666]

Engineer seems like one the the stealthiest classes. Sabotage, anyone?

And taking out a bunch of enemies before they realize you're there and you're therefore forced to use your powers would be very useful.

[CaptainZaysh]

Right now our troops in Afghan are using "sniper detectors" that pinpoint a shooter's location by analysing the acoustic properties of the shot. So by 2283 reducing the noise of the weapon might be completely pointless anyway, since a standard combat hardsuit would detect other evidence of the bullet flightpath (like atmospheric disturbance) and tag the location of the shooter with a bright red blip on your HUD.

And let's face it, if your hardsuit can do that it could probably automatically fire a micromissile out of the Y-rack launcher on the backplate, saving you the trouble of actually returning fire yourself.

The trouble is that, if you go all the way along the path of realism you end up with a very different game. Shepard would remote pilot mechs through the ground missions rather than actually carry a rifle into a firefight. I think that could be a fascinating game but it would be very very different and I'm not sure it would have "Mass" appeal.

[Ship.wreck_]

lolwut666 wrote...

@amesp81

That's assuming present-day silencers are used in the ME universe, which I doubt would be the case.

Stealth is very important in combat. It's perfectly plausible to imagine that the armed forces from ME would develop quite a bit of time and resources in developing stealth technology, including devices to silence guns.

EXACTLY. WHAT THIS GUY SAID. WHAT I SAID A LONG TIME AGO. Stealth has always been and will always be a HUGE advantage. The concept isn't going to be abandoned because something new needs to be invented.

Someone With Mass wrote...

lolwut666 wrote...

It think it could be useful for all classes. You don't need Cloak to be stealthy.

I think "squishy" classes like the Adept and the Engineer could benefit a lot from it.

I was referring to the infiltrator, seeing how that class is using a sniper rifle.

And Adept is using biotics, so why would that class need suppressors?

Engineer is far from stealthy too.

Again, what lolwut said. All classes use at least A gun of some kind. That's how that class and EVERY class could need a supressor.

Engineer is as far from stealthy as a player CHOOSES to make it. Likewise with supressors and a little brain power it can also be as stealthy as a player chooses to make it.

[Ship.wreck_]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Right now our troops in Afghan are using "sniper detectors" that pinpoint a shooter's location by analysing the acoustic properties of the shot. So by 2283 reducing the noise of the weapon might be completely pointless anyway, since a standard combat hardsuit would detect other evidence of the bullet flightpath (like atmospheric disturbance) and tag the location of the shooter with a bright red blip on your HUD.

And let's face it, if your hardsuit can do that it could probably automatically fire a micromissile out of the Y-rack launcher on the backplate, saving you the trouble of actually returning fire yourself.

The trouble is that, if you go all the way along the path of realism you end up with a very different game. Shepard would remote pilot mechs through the ground missions rather than actually carry a rifle into a firefight. I think that could be a fascinating game but it would be very very different and I'm not sure it would have "Mass" appeal.

No one's talking about uber realism here dude.

I've stated quite accurately myself that upon application of real world physics the ME physics quickly go to hell in a flaming nuclear handbasket.

What we're talking about here is JUST and ONLY adding some more aspects to combat such as stealth that will make the gameplay wildly more interesting, entertaining, engaging and creative.

[Someone With Mass]

Ship.wreck wrote...
Again, what lolwut said. All classes use at least A gun of some kind. That's how that class and EVERY class could need a supressor.

Engineer is as far from stealthy as a player CHOOSES to make it. Likewise with supressors and a little brain power it can also be as stealthy as a player chooses to make it.

Yeah, I should use my suppressed and very crappy SMG, to which I have no damage bonuses whatsoever as my main weapon instead of using the Engineer's strong powers, like the turret or the flame blade (new powers, by the way).

[lolwut666]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Ship.wreck wrote...
Again, what lolwut said. All classes use at least A gun of some kind. That's how that class and EVERY class could need a supressor.

Engineer is as far from stealthy as a player CHOOSES to make it. Likewise with supressors and a little brain power it can also be as stealthy as a player chooses to make it.

Yeah, I should use my suppressed and very crappy SMG, to which I have no damage bonuses whatsoever as my main weapon instead of using the Engineer's strong powers, like the turret or the flame blade (new powers, by the way).

Yeah, I should use my flame blade (flame blade is on the what now?) and my turret, which the AI will probably also have access to, like they did drones and other powers in the second game, instead of fighting intelligently...

/sarcasm

[Ship.wreck_]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Ship.wreck wrote...
Again, what lolwut said. All classes use at least A gun of some kind. That's how that class and EVERY class could need a supressor.

Engineer is as far from stealthy as a player CHOOSES to make it. Likewise with supressors and a little brain power it can also be as stealthy as a player chooses to make it.

Yeah, I should use my suppressed and very crappy SMG, to which I have no damage bonuses whatsoever as my main weapon instead of using the Engineer's strong powers, like the turret or the flame blade (new powers, by the way).

A very poor defense sir. It's friggin retarded that engineers are only allowed to use smg. It's always been retarded that they're only allowed to use SMG. If in ME3 they're still only allowed to use SMG, then ME3 is going to be retarded. Having skill as an engineer does not logically preclude someone from being able to use any damn weapon they want. Yet I'm supposed to believe that because engineers are engineers, somhow this makes them magically physically incapable of operating an AR?

That's just dumb.

It should go without saying that engineers should be able to use any damn weapon they please. With or withour supressors. Ideally with.

[lolwut666]

Real-life commandos are armed to the teeth. Why don't they just bulldoze their way through everything? Because so is the enemy.

[Ship.wreck_]

Someone With Mass wrote...

I'd like the option to initiate orbital bombardment at least once in ME3.

 Laser/GPS designator built into the Mako's sensor package AND Shepards helmet/hud,
Shepard: "Normandy this is ground team, we've got bookoo bad guys at the designated co-ordinates requesting orbital bombardment of the location."
Joker: "Aye, aye, Cap'n comensing bombardment!"

Shhhhweeeeooooshhhh! BOOOOOOOOMMMMMMM!!!!! I wouldn't be able to restrain the earsplitting cackle of a mad man welling up from my gut if I actually got to do that in ME3, MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

That said: once? WTF?

I don't mean watch it happen in an utterly lame and dissapointed sequence so thoroghly scripted it might as well ACTUALLY be a cut scene. I mean as per my discression. IN GAME.