148 réponses à ce sujet

[lolwut666]

I like how some people here think they know more about ME's technology than the writers themselves.

If they want silencers, I'm sure they can find an excuse to include them.

It's foolish to try to apply real-life concepts to a fictional universe that only mimicks real-life loosely at best.

[Madman123456]

lolwut666 wrote...

I like how some people here think they know more about ME's technology than the writers themselves.

If they want silencers, I'm sure they can find an excuse to include them.

It's foolish to try to apply real-life concepts to a fictional universe that only mimicks real-life loosely at best.

True that, we're just listing what the writers would have to adress to make it work. Although, they could just add a silencer. And maybe a scene where one of the characters asks how they work, and then another character answers: "I have no Idea." and then the Question never comes up again and both characters make a Trollface.



I for one aim for explanation of the Details i know of to people who care about these things while simultanuosly showing that i care for these technical details. I loved Star Trek technobabble when they tried really hard to make it as realistic as possible, i hate it when they came up with "tri-polymer plasma". Blech.

I love how mass effect has a science fiction universe that basically has one single element of plot magic, the element zero, which explains everything. Brilliant.

I do not like the "ammo" so much. They try to explain it, "reloading" is faster waiting for your gun to cool down, but since one could mod the gun with heatsinks in a way so the gun could fire indefinetely this explanation falls flat and its rather transperent that bioware put the "Ammo" in to have the Ammo gameplay mechanic.

[GuardianAngel470]

A few things. First, "bullets" in ME don't travel anywhere near the speed of light. They travel at a fraction of the speed of light.

The way ME technology is used in firearms is to make a very small particle seem much heavier and thus do more damage on impact.

This is different than how starship guns work.

Second, modern day silencers work by trapping escaping gases within a shell of metal and insulation. Think of two metal cylinders, one put through the other. The one on the inside has several holes in it while the one on the outside doesn't. Between the two is insulation of some sort that keeps the gas from passing right back out and breaks up the airflow (read sound).

That particular type of silencer would be useless on an ME firearm as they don't use expanding gas to propel a projectile. The closest analog is a magnetic accelerator (like those being tested for aircraft carriers). Theoretically it should already be quieter, but I would hazard a guess and say that this is where traditional game design and game fiction don't mesh well.

Now, that doesn't mean that a silencer is impossible in the ME universe and quite frankly it wouldn't take much to make one exist as the precise source of the sound of a fired weapon isn't very thoroughly explained.

Here's hoping Infi's get some.

[Nathan Redgrave]

lolwut666 wrote...

I like how some people here think they know more about ME's technology than the writers themselves.

If they want silencers, I'm sure they can find an excuse to include them.

It's foolish to try to apply real-life concepts to a fictional universe that only mimicks real-life loosely at best.

This is true, yeah.

[Ship.wreck_]

Dear sweet jesus. I would love to hear you explain this concept to a Navy SEAL who has used a supressor, almost as much as I would love to hear him beating you death with your own leg immediatly afterwards

TexasToast712 wrote...
Kids think silencers are cool which i dont agree with as anything that reduces the stopping power of my firearm is not cool.

Supressors don't reduce the stopping power of firearms. Stopping power is a function of  how quickly a projectile deccelerates after striking its target. The faster a bullet is going when it hits and the more it slows down in the target, the more energy transfer from the bullet to target, and the more force of impact or "stoping power" is felt. Supressors do not slow down the projectile, nor do they have any effect what so ever on the projectile's interaction with the target. You need to do a LOT more wikipedia searches before you roll up in here acting like you know things

Real men dont need silencers to get a edge.

That's funny because a lot of our nation's most elite warriors just happen to use supressors to get an edge, and I'm willing to bet your spine they'd beg to f*cking differ. Are you?

Besides, the technology in ME makes it impossible to have silenced firearms as the above posters said.

And last but not least: No it doesn't.

Modifié par Ship.wreck , 27 mai 2011 - 11:04 .

[Ship.wreck_]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

@Ship: y'know, I'm not absolutely sure you can always hear bullets as they pass you. I've had live rounds pass within a few metres of me and I don't think I heard any whizz or crack.

I might be wrong, it was years ago.

(During training, I mean. Just realised how much of a badass that made me sound without mentioning that nobody was trying to kill me.)

I'm sure it depends on how closely the bullet passes you. You can hear the whiz of a paintball flying by your head if it's close, but if it's ten feet or more, not so much. The whole thing with sub vs super sonic rounds is really just a matter of how far away you can be and still hear the projectile. The crack will be louder than the whiz so it can be heard from slightly further away, so, slightly less stealthy. But still wouldn't reveal shooter. And frankly if it's passing that close to someone, it should be hitting them anyway.

As for your situations I'm just hazarding a guess here, correct me if I'm wrong but: Maybe you didn't hear the bullet its self pass by because you were too busy hearing the gunshot? I'm sure if you're relatively close to the weapon and it's not suprresed the report of the shot will completely drown out the little crack of the bullet. One more reason I suggest that one doesn't need sub sonic ammo to be stealthy at all.

HAHAHA! On the one hand I was kinda wondering: "Was this guy in combat? Or was it training? Or is he just a civilian with some dumb friends and a gun?"

What was your unit/branch?

[Ship.wreck_]

Madman123456 wrote...
True that, we're just listing what the writers would have to adress to make it work. Although, they could just add a silencer. And maybe a scene where one of the characters asks how they work, and then another character answers: "I have no Idea." and then the Question never comes up again and both characters make a Trollface.

I for one aim for explanation of the Details i know of to people who care about these things while simultanuosly showing that i care for these technical details. I loved Star Trek technobabble when they tried really hard to make it as realistic as possible, i hate it when they came up with "tri-polymer plasma". Blech.

I love how mass effect has a science fiction universe that basically has one single element of plot magic, the element zero, which explains everything. Brilliant.

I do not like the "ammo" so much. They try to explain it, "reloading" is faster waiting for your gun to cool down, but since one could mod the gun with heatsinks in a way so the gun could fire indefinetely this explanation falls flat and its rather transperent that bioware put the "Ammo" in to have the Ammo gameplay mechanic.

I believe the phrase you're looking for is, "True dat!" but I understood it...

Good points, I love it when everything has an explanation. I hate seeing something interesting, then asking about it, only to hear as an explanation, "Because it looks cool."

"Well... now it's just dumb!"

Hahaha!

OH THANK GOD! Finally someone with some sense! The whole thermal clips thing, obviously just a poorly thought out ploy to force limited ammo into a game the lore of which clearly states there's not supposed to be any significantly limited ammo! If you actually read the booklet / codex lore there's nothing to suggest in the description that the whole thermal clip thing is anything BUT a button you push to instantly cool down your weapon when you overheat it!

When I first picked up ME2 and flipped through the little game booklet before playing I was so excited when I first saw that! I was like, "Unlimited ammo and now advanced technology that allows me to skip the cool down wait when I overheat it??? AWESOME!!!!"

Then I actually played and saw that it was so painfully, obviously, clearly JUST limited ammo where such thing is not supposed to exist! "WHAAAAT THE F**********CK?"

And then on this forum so many people defend it to the DEATH! No, it's not limited ammo, it's "Thermal Clips"! WHat? You get a number of shots, then you shoot them, then you're out of shots. That IS limited ammo!!!!

Ugh... anyway, thank you for being a human with a brain that can acknowledge that. And now everyone that's arguing against suprressors is going to start immediately arguing that thermal clips are not limited ammo and that they make perfect sense within the original lore of the game.... *sigh*

[lolwut666]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

@Ship: y'know, I'm not absolutely sure you can always hear bullets as they pass you. I've had live rounds pass within a few metres of me and I don't think I heard any whizz or crack.

I might be wrong, it was years ago.

I doubt you could have heard anything at the exact same time the bullet flew by you.

It was just delayed sound.

[lolwut666]

Ugh...

I'm shocked and disappointed that people are trying so hard to deny the mere possibility of silencers in ME.

Dude, we have "tech" that is MOTHER****ING HARD LIGHT. You can actually make a micro computer out of said hard light that can do pretty much ANYTHING, which is why it's called an OMNI-TOOL.

And you're telling me that they can't make a silencer?

Please...

Modifié par lolwut666, 27 mai 2011 - 12:05 .

[Ship.wreck_]

Backup accomplished! Thank you lolwut!

[AlexMBrennan]

Feel free to make up any facts you like but don't expect us to take you seriously if you do that. Hard light is Portal - ME omni-tool user interfaces are normal holograms.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 27 mai 2011 - 12:13 .

[lolwut666]

I think you're wrong, but in any case, there is the tech armor, which is definitely not an hologram.

Modifié par lolwut666, 27 mai 2011 - 12:15 .

[AlexMBrennan]

Well, you claimed that omni tools are hard light devices; that claim is false. I don't think we know anything (codex and such) about how tech armour works but I wouldn't deduce that it is hard light based from the pretty lights.

[lolwut666]

And where do you presume the extra protection comes from?

Holograms are intangible. If the "pretty lights", as you call them, are just that, they'd be just an ornament.

And I'm not fully convinced that omni-tools are "holograms", now matter how smugly you claim they are.

Modifié par lolwut666, 27 mai 2011 - 12:27 .

[jamesp81]

lolwut666 wrote...

And where do you presume the extra protection comes from?

Holograms are intangible. If the "pretty lights", as you call them, are just that, they'd be just an ornament.

And I'm not fully convinced that omni-tools are "holograms", now matter how smugly you claim they are.

I always figured the light-up parts on the users forearm really were just holograms, used primarily as the interface to the omni-tool.  The tool itself is likely nothing more than a tiny box containing all the hardware and the omni-tool's software storage.  I always figured it was either integrated into a combat hard suit, or possibly implanted in the user's body, kind of like biotic implants.  Except a tiny box with a self contained computer system would require a lot less invasive surgery, obviously....

As for tech armor, I always assumed the "pretty lights" were nothing more than a holographic visual to indicate to the user that tech armor had been activated.  The actual shield itself is invisible, just like standard kinetic barriers.

Modifié par jamesp81, 27 mai 2011 - 12:35 .

[lolwut666]

I doubt omni-tools are holograms. Holograms can't be touched. There must be at least a pressure or heat detector to inform the device that you pressed one of its "buttons", which an hologram cannot have.

[jamesp81]

thurmanator692 wrote...

I don't think a suppressor would work the same way that it does in real live. A suppressor absorbs light and sound from the explosion of the bullet, correct? bullets arent propelled by explosions in the ME universe

Sort of.  Suppressors use gas expansion chambers to reduce the pressure of propellant gases at the moment the bullet exits the barrel.  This would naturally have no application to a firearm that doesn't use gunpowder or some other compressed gas / explosive propellant mechanism.  Silencers/suppressors also do other things, though, which would apply.  One thing they do is they're kind of like a tuning fork; they can convert sound energy into kinetic energy or heat energy.  As a result, silencers tend to get hotter than hell very quickly.

Suppressors on an ME based firearm would be concerned with suppressing the sound of the gun's action.  Most guns in ME generate some noise under firing related to the transfer of power and such involved in their operation (this is why many ME guns have a sort of 'electronic' sound).  Suppressing this would be effective in making it hard for your target to tell where the shots came from.  However, the supersonic projectiles would still make a sonic boom, so this method of suppression would not be "hollywood" quiet.  If you fired a few rounds in a building, every badguy on the floor would still know a shootout had started.

[jamesp81]

lolwut666 wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

Kids think silencers are cool which i dont agree with as anything that reduces the stopping power of my firearm is not cool. Real men dont need silencers to get a edge. Besides, the technology in ME makes it impossible to have silenced firearms as the above posters said.

Spoken like a true meathead.

I don't get real excited about them either.  They only truly suppress handguns, and the additiona of a suppressor to a handgun makes it exceptionally bulky.  They're of limited utility on rifles, as a rifle will still generate enough noise to necessitate the use of hearing protection, even with a silencer in place.

[jamesp81]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

(During training, I mean. Just realised how much of a badass that made me sound without mentioning that nobody was trying to kill me.)

Still pretty badass, IMO.  Having live rounds fly past, under any circumstances, is not cool at all.  JMO.

[Ship.wreck_]

jamesp81 wrote...
I don't get real excited about them either.  They only truly suppress handguns, and the additiona of a suppressor to a handgun makes it exceptionally bulky.  They're of limited utility on rifles, as a rifle will still generate enough noise to necessitate the use of hearing protection, even with a silencer in place.

Hearing protection? What are you talking about? We're not talking about a day at the damn range here...

[Ship.wreck_]

As for the omni tools, I recall reading in the ME codex a general entry on computer technology that involved some kind of hologram interfaces with force feed back gloves. Optional force feed back inplants. I'd assume the omni tool works the same way.

The tech armor was a wierd addition. What is that? Whatever hapened to just shields and barrier? Although, I'd assume tech armor would just be enhanced shields. Anyway the idea of the lights being just an ON indicator I find extremely unlikely. You don't have a gigantic hologram that gives away your position for miles just to let you know the things on. You have a SMALL indicator light for that. The only reason to have those big bright lights would be if they WERE the shield.

[AlexMBrennan]

You're assuming that the tech armour's glow is by design; that isn't necessarily true (e.g. firearms aren't designed to get very hot but it's an unavoidable side effect of firing powerful rounds quickly)

Regarding hard light: Hard light is not mentioned anywhere in the codex (kinetic barriers utilise mass effect fields to deflect incoming projectiles); on the other hand however there is a detailed explanation of the holographic interface technology. Whilst it is possible that omni tools use undocumented and completely unique hard light technology it seems a bit more likely that they work like regular computers.
Also note that hard light isn't any more silly than mass effect fields; however, the existence of mass effect fields is an axiom for the mass effect universe. Everything is fine as long as the axioms are consistent; whether they are likely to be true w.r.t. current science is immaterial.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 27 mai 2011 - 01:13 .

[Ship.wreck_]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

You're assuming that the tech armour's glow is by design; that isn't necessarily true (e.g. firearms aren't designed to get very hot but it's an unavoidable side effect of firing powerful rounds quickly)

Who's assuming the tech armor's glow is by design? Certainly not this guy, with the thumbs! I stated that they wouldn't make a huge super bright hologram of the shield just to let you know the shield is turned on. And that the only reason they would even allow to system to be that big bright light, is if that was somehow integral to its function. Basically exactly what you're saying, that it must be a necessary or at least unavoidable big bright light, for it to be there.

That said the battle to make effective armor is always a loosing one. No matter how good the armor/shield/barier gets there's always a slightly bigger gun that can easily defeat it. You don't go into combat planning to get shot and expecting your armor to save you. You go into combat planning to avoid getting shot, and hoping that if you do the armor saves you.

The primary means of protecting yourself from getting wounded or killed is avoiding gettting shot i nthe first place. Armor is just a backup in case plan A falls through. But bright glowing armor pretty damn much gaurantees that you're going to get shot. And when you're advertising your position to everyone, eventually someone will shoot through it. So all of the best armor in the galaxy won't save your ass if it's telling everyone exactly where you are. No such system would ever be adopted for military use.

Therefore, in general, I don't "buy" the concept of this tech armor in the first place. At  least not as I've seen it thus far.

[samurai crusade]

As much as I love stealth and silencers.... Splinter Cell and Tenchu are two of my favorite games.... I don't see the point in Mass Effect. The advent of shielding makes a silencer useless because the moment the shield registers a "hit" and gets depleeted, your target is allerted to your presence. So a silencer would only work on an unshielded enemy or playing on casual.

[Someone With Mass]

The hologram on the omni-tool is just the UI, by the way. The omni-tool itself is a compact computer with multiple functions, like a minifacturing fabricator, some micro sensors and a microframe for the computer. Every user of the omni-tool have small chips in their fingertips which the computer can detect when they're doing a certain motion above the omni-tool, which translates into a command on the holographic screen.

But this is off-topic.

As I've said before, few classes would have good use of silencers. Especially if they're just going up against the same merc band they've taken down without any problem in the past.

And I don't think the new husk enemies can be killed silently because of their organic/synthetic armor.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 27 mai 2011 - 02:19 .