148 réponses à ce sujet

[jamesp81]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

The .50 cal can be used with a suppressor.
Also, suppressor for artillery (if this unrelated tvtropes page is accurate) it isn't

Regarding tech armour again: Surely there will always be scenarios where stealth is not an option (e.g. start of Archangel mission - you need to cross open ground where the enemy know exactly where you are already) - cf ballistic shields.

Yes you CAN put a suppressor on a 50 caliber rifle (I've even seen pictures where people have done it). It won't have much effect, ESPECIALLY on the Barrett sniper rifle.  Chiefly because that rifle has a muzzle brake.  A muzzle brake is a recoil reducing device mounted to the muzzle that functions by directing propellant gases such that the force of those gases counteract some of the recoil impulse (that's what the vents on the end of the barrel are: the muzzle brake).  Problem is, muzzle brakes make the damned gun about 2 to 5 times as loud as it would be without one.  Ask me how I f*****g know about that:?

Removing the muzzle brake from a 50 cal sniper rifle would be problematic, as recoil would get to be a problem.  That rifle really needs the brake's recoil reduction.  Mounted 50 caliber machine guns don't use a brake, if I remember correctly.  Problem is, larger calibers don't suppress as well as smaller calibers.  There's a reason there's been no move to putting suppressors on 50 caliber weapons; they just don't suppress well even under optimal conditions.  A 50 caliber cartridge contains over 200 grains of propellant, which generates a truly awesome volume of propellant gases.  A suppressor just can't deal with that very well.

I sincerely doubt a suppressed 50 caliber rifle would be suppressed enough that an enemy couldn't determine direction from the sound of the shot, unless it was a very long range shot (admittedly possible with the 50, but not every shot will be like that either).  From the shooter's perspective, even with a suppressor attached, a 50 caliber would still be more than loud enough to damage hearing without hearing protection devices, and anyone within a half a mile would easily hear it when you shot that damned thing off.

And about the artillery suppressor.....yes, there actually is such a device.  The German army uses it during training sessions on their own bases so as not to spread noise pollution as much.  The guns are still helaciously loud and can still be heard from a long distance off.  Just not as long a distance.

On a personal note, I wish like hell my club range's backstop was rated for 50 caliber.  I'd have one of those if it was.....

Modifié par jamesp81, 27 mai 2011 - 08:28 .

[Ship.wreck_]

thurmanator692 wrote...
In the novels, it is explained that sheilds don't stop point blank shots

Hmmm... that's interesting.

raist747 wrote...
Sadly a lot of things Hollywood does bleeds into everything.

http://www.cracked.c...-to-movies.html

Hahaha! I haven't even been to the page yet, but I can tell already it's going to be awesome!

Yeah unfortunately that is the case...

Someone With Mass wrote...

When you're using a light machine gun, I think being stealthy is the least of your concerns.

Ummm... so?

[Senior Cinco]

I can't see it as having a practical use, with the current combat mechanics, as your presence is compromised the moment of that first shot, silenced or not. Thus putting all enemies in the area, as well as other rooms and other floors, on alert.

Now, arguing the possibility. Hell, anything is, when left to the imagination of a writer.

[Ship.wreck_]

Senior Cinco wrote...

I can't see it as having a practical use, with the current combat mechanics, as your presence is compromised the moment of that first shot, silenced or not. Thus putting all enemies in the area, as well as other rooms and other floors, on alert.

Now, arguing the possibility. Hell, anything is, when left to the imagination of a writer.

Yes. Clearly the AI would need to be improved for stealth. That's been covered.

[Senior Cinco]

Wow....A neg feedback from Ship...Well, at least your consistent...

[Ship.wreck_]

Senior Cinco wrote...

Wow....A neg feedback from Ship...Well, at least your consistent...

Hahaha! Uhhhh... your names pretty cool

Seriously, though we did say that a while back now...

[Senior Cinco]

LOL... thanks man.. glad to see you have a sense of humor. Just agreed with the prev posts...dropin' my two cents...or lack there of..

EDIT: being the newb, some info is sometimes missed, browseing through some of the longer threads

Modifié par Senior Cinco, 27 mai 2011 - 10:08 .

[Ship.wreck_]

Hahaha you're welcome! With a name like that you better have a legit mustache. Yeah, you're right, no one has the time to read all the pages...

[Senior Cinco]

Ship.wreck wrote...
 With a name like that you better have a legit mustache..

HA! thats funny...i love it...

[Ship.wreck_]

It's true! I'm talkin Mario status!

[khevan]

I'm fairly sure that this has been mentioned at least at some point during this discussion, but I can't be arsed to read the whole thing, so I had to at least say something in passing.

Modern supressors will not work on Mass Effect era weapons. Period. Modern firearms use expanding gasses from the exploding gunpowder to propel the bullet down the barrel and into the fleshy bits of the target. Much of the noise from a gunshot is from the gasses expanding as they exit the barrel after the bullet. A supressor works by using expansion chambers to allow the gasses to expand in such a way that the noise is reduced. However, this only does so much, since nearly as much of the sound from a gunshot is from the bullet crossing the sound barrier, creating what is essentially a sonic boom. SOME of the sound of a gunshot can be supressed, but much of it cannot, unless you use subsonic ammunition, which has neither the range or terminal ballistics to be of much use in an actual combat scenario.

BUT, since Mass Effect style weapons don't use chemical propellants for the bullets, they are EFFECTIVELY ALREADY SILENCED compared to modern firearms. The sound that a silencer would reduce is the explosion of the propellant, and since ME weapons use mass effect fields (not an explosive propellant), that sound wouldn't exist, just the sound of the round going supersonic, and the action of the firearm itself.

Just something to think about, and if it was mentioned earlier, ignore me. Like I said, I didn't feel like reading the whole thread to see if someone mentioned this earlier.

[Someone With Mass]

Ship.wreck wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

When you're using a light machine gun, I think being stealthy is the least of your concerns.

Ummm... so?

All classes can use all weapons in ME3, right? Well, there you go.

[Senior Cinco]

@khevan  KUDOS to ya man...POST IT WITH PRIDE!

EDIT: damn GOT NINJD

Modifié par Senior Cinco, 27 mai 2011 - 10:46 .

[Ship.wreck_]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Ship.wreck wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

When you're using a light machine gun, I think being stealthy is the least of your concerns.

Ummm... so?

All classes can use all weapons in ME3, right? Well, there you go.

Ummm... I don't see how the usefullness or lack of usefullness of a supressor on a single type of weapon has any bearing on whether or not there should be supressors in the game at all?

I'm glad to know that we'll have access to our weapons again though...

[Someone With Mass]

Considering that we'll be fighting 15 feet tall mechs, assassins and many different husks, I'd rather go with the heavy weapons than a few silenced small arms.

[Ship.wreck_]

khevan wrote...

I'm fairly sure that this has been mentioned at least at some point during this discussion, but I can't be arsed to read the whole thing, so I had to at least say something in passing.

Modern supressors will not work on Mass Effect era weapons. Period. Modern firearms use expanding gasses from the exploding gunpowder to propel the bullet down the barrel and into the fleshy bits of the target. Much of the noise from a gunshot is from the gasses expanding as they exit the barrel after the bullet. A supressor works by using expansion chambers to allow the gasses to expand in such a way that the noise is reduced. However, this only does so much, since nearly as much of the sound from a gunshot is from the bullet crossing the sound barrier, creating what is essentially a sonic boom. SOME of the sound of a gunshot can be supressed, but much of it cannot, unless you use subsonic ammunition, which has neither the range or terminal ballistics to be of much use in an actual combat scenario.

Actually the VAST majority of the sound generated by a firing a weapon is produced by the expanding gasses. The sonic crack of the projectile and the action of the weapon are very minor components of that sound and aren't even audible relative to the sound of the gasses escaping. MOST of the sound of a gunshot can be supressed, some of it cannot. Some purpose built supressable weapons include manual action modes to eliminate even the sound of the action. Leaving only the sonic crack and the muffled gas release.

As for the ME weapons, in spite of the fact that the projectile is not propelled by a violent chemical reaction: the massive velocities to which they are accellerated would cause massive disturbances in the air they pass through in the form of an extermley high pressure wave in front of the projectile and an extremely low pressure super heated wave behind it, resulting in a loud report and fireball leaving the end of the barrel after the projectile leaves the barrel. This would likely be lesser in magnitude, yet still somewhat similar to the report of a chemically propelled munition.

Real world physics aside. All you really have to do is play the game and listen to the gun. It sounds exactly like a gunshot. Clearly that's not the all the sound of the action of the weapon, or a sonic crack from the projectile. Either way you look at it, a traditional supressor would likely significantly supress the report of the weapon. Although more may be required to account for other factors of the technology which may not be similar to contemporary firearms.

BUT, since Mass Effect style weapons don't use chemical propellants for the bullets, they are EFFECTIVELY ALREADY SILENCED compared to modern firearms. The sound that a silencer would reduce is the explosion of the propellant, and since ME weapons use mass effect fields (not an explosive propellant), that sound wouldn't exist, just the sound of the round going supersonic, and the action of the firearm itself.

Just something to think about, and if it was mentioned earlier, ignore me. Like I said, I didn't feel like reading the whole thread to see if someone mentioned this earlier.

Again see the last paragraph I wrote above. The sound of those guns in ME is WAY louder than a massive electrical energy dump and a sonic crack could be. Thus wether we aply real world physics to deduce that there is another explosive sound source (although that explosion is not a propellent, but rather a side effect of the propulsion) or not there clearly is another much greater sound soruce of some nature, which can be suprressed to make the weapons more stealthy.

Clearly either way they are not stealthy or supressed in any way as they are...

Modifié par Ship.wreck , 27 mai 2011 - 11:26 .

[Ship.wreck_]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Considering that we'll be fighting 15 feet tall mechs, assassins and many different husks, I'd rather go with the heavy weapons than a few silenced small arms.

We're likely going to be fighting a LOT of different enemies of a LOT of different types under a LOT of different circumstances. And even if you'd prefer to use an LMG to do so, that's no good reason others shouldn't be allowed to choose to use a supressed AR or SR.

[Ship.wreck_]

thurmanator692 wrote...

Ship.wreck wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Considering that we'll be fighting 15 feet tall mechs, assassins and many different husks, I'd rather go with the heavy weapons than a few silenced small arms.

We're likely going to be fighting a LOT of different enemies of a LOT of different types under a LOT of different circumstances. And even if you'd prefer to use an LMG to do so, that's no good reason others shouldn't be allowed to choose to use a supressed AR or SR.

The advantage of being a soldier in the game is having a tool for every problem. You'd best believe that im going to be very close to any silenced weapons, especially if Arrival is a precursor to stealth-based missions. Another cool (but unlikely) thing would be lore-based sheild and armor physics. I want melee attacks to bypass sheilds and armor to take the hit instead, i want point-blank "execution" shots that are available if you get up in your enemy's face, aspects and variables like that that would set mass effect apart from any other shooter.

YES!!! That would be awesome!

[Ship.wreck_]

thurmanator692 wrote...

Why thank you lol.

You're very welcome good sir! Ahufufufufufuf!

That would be cool though, really everything should be lore based... that's the point of the lore!

[Bluko]

There should be silencers in Mass Effect.

As mentioned before Captain Anderson himself makes use of them in the Novels. As I understand it they more or less work like current day Silencers muffling the sound and hiding any muzzle flash. Really in Arrival it would have been nice had Hackett given you some type of silenced weapon, you know since it was suppose to be stealth mission. But whatever.

I think we might see Silencers in ME3. It'd be nice, especially if they actually created proper stealth mechanics. I mean Shepard is a Special Forces operative riding around in a Stealth Ship. Surely Shepard knows how to use Stealth to some degree. But whenever Shepard's on a mission (even covert ones) he/she approaches with it all the subtlety of a rampaging Elephant.