46 réponses à ce sujet

[HoLyEmperor]

Jensonagain wrote...
 Healing potions is a cop out. It's not skill.

Using a sword is a copout.  It's not skill.  Your character just swings it and does damage.

Using armor is a copout.  It's not skill.  It just makes your character take less damage.

Leveling your character is a copout.  It's not skill.  You just get passive bonuses wherever you put your stats.

"Skill" is one of those words that has become special in computer gaming.  People use the word, but there's no consensus on what it really means.  In your particular examples, Hard and Nightmare take "skill" because you have to maximize your character's abilities in order to handle fights.  How does the presence of healing poultices detract from this?  Sure, your tank can keep himself alive by spamming various levels of poultices.  But could you play another way, to minimize the damage he takes by using the abilities of the rest of your characters?  Yes, you can.

Healing is one element of this game.  It's up to you to figure out where it fits in.

If you want a game based purely around your own "skill" then perhaps RPGs are not for you.  You might prefer pure FPS, for example.

Modifié par HoLyEmperor, 20 novembre 2009 - 02:32 .

[BluesMan1956]

*sigh*

[Kahryl]

JHorwath wrote...

I should point out that when knocked down, grabbed, stunned, ect... you can not use healing potions or mana potions.  Is that something that people forget?  If your not paying attention and your character gets this affliction in the wrong situation they are history.

Yeah this has happened to me

But that shouldn't be the only way to lose.  Resource management ought to be a part of the game.

[HoLyEmperor]

Kahryl wrote...
Yeah this has happened to me

But that shouldn't be the only way to lose.  Resource management ought to be a part of the game.

Playing on Nightmare, I'm finding that the difference between a victory or a failure can come down to a missed attack or a resisted CC ability.  RNG is a part of RPGs.  RNG always butts heads with "skill" and there's no way around it.

[Kahryl]

HoLyEmperor wrote...

Sure, your tank can keep himself alive by spamming various levels of poultices.  But could you play another way, to minimize the damage he takes by using the abilities of the rest of your characters?  Yes, you can.

This is basically what identifies poltices as a "cop out" that "doesn't take skill".  When a simple, repeatable and nearly infalliable tactic can do the same thing as intelligently using the many abilities of the rest of your characters, that tactic is a cop out that doesn't take skill.  Clear enough? 

In a well-designed game, cop outs are restricted to the cheat menu.  In DA:O, they are integrated so much into the game they are hard to avoid.

[Kahryl]

HoLyEmperor wrote...

Kahryl wrote...
Yeah this has happened to me

But that shouldn't be the only way to lose.  Resource management ought to be a part of the game.

Playing on Nightmare, I'm finding that the difference between a victory or a failure can come down to a missed attack or a resisted CC ability.  RNG is a part of RPGs.  RNG always butts heads with "skill" and there's no way around it.

Certainly.  I didn't mean to say RNG shouldn't be a factor.  In fact, I didn't say that

[JHorwath]

Kahryl wrote...

JHorwath wrote...

I should point out that when knocked down, grabbed, stunned, ect... you can not use healing potions or mana potions.  Is that something that people forget?  If your not paying attention and your character gets this affliction in the wrong situation they are history.

Yeah this has happened to me

But that shouldn't be the only way to lose.  Resource management ought to be a part of the game.

I totally agree with resource management.  Health poltices, it seems are the new useless money problem in this game.  They should cost even more than they do and be less plentiful.  Fight a boss battle without or one or two healing poltices vs 35.  I think what needs to be done to remedy this is to have the encounters that lead up to the boss break your party down even more.

[BluesMan1956]

HoLyEmperor wrote...

Kahryl wrote...
Yeah this has happened to me

But that shouldn't be the only way to lose.  Resource management ought to be a part of the game.

Playing on Nightmare, I'm finding that the difference between a victory or a failure can come down to a missed attack or a resisted CC ability.  RNG is a part of RPGs.  RNG always butts heads with "skill" and there's no way around it.

Don't you have something constructive to do?  Have you finished your homework amd your chores?

[Kahryl]

BluesMan1956 wrote...

HoLyEmperor wrote...

Kahryl wrote...
Yeah this has happened to me

But that shouldn't be the only way to lose.  Resource management ought to be a part of the game.

Playing on Nightmare, I'm finding that the difference between a victory or a failure can come down to a missed attack or a resisted CC ability.  RNG is a part of RPGs.  RNG always butts heads with "skill" and there's no way around it.

Don't you have something constructive to do?  Have you finished your homework amd your chores?

He is posting on a discusson thread about game balance and trying to make and  support his point.

You are pouting and sighing and contributing nothing except the vague impression that someone is holding a gun to your head and not letting you leave the topic until it is over, and that we are dreadfully cruel for drawing this discussion out.

[HoLyEmperor]

BluesMan1956 wrote...
Don't you have something constructive to do?  Have you finished your homework amd your chores?

I would ask the same of you, but then I'd be a troll. 

[Jensonagain]

Easy mode without healing potions seems to be the most fun so far.

[purplesunset]

Jensonagain, quick question: Do you feel that the difficulty on nightmare is set up in such a way that if you don't use healing potions, you're screwed, but if you do, it becomes too easy?  If so, then that seems like a design flaw to me, and beyond mere user opinion.

I would like to see some other posters share their thoughts on this because this was a concern that I had about some of the battles in BG 2. Certain fights were almost impossible unless you used a certain tactic which made them incredibly easy e.g. using prot from undead potions against a certain undead enemy.

Modifié par purplesunset, 20 novembre 2009 - 05:57 .

[Kahryl]

Crawling_Chaos wrote...

I loved the Witcher, all I had to do was run around and look silly while I flailed my sword at enemies until they died.

The Witcher wasn't exactly Deep Tactics but at least you had to think about which potions you used if you didn't want to freak out

It would be neat if other games used the toxicity system.  Do you really think you'll be able to chain chug 25 glowing concoctions and not be sick.

[Random_Havoc]

Perhaps a 'challenge' for the OP in nightmare would to be using the min amount of health pots. Say if an 'average' player has to chug 15 health pots to get through an encounter a challenge would be to get through the same encounter only chugging 7 pots, using superior tactics to make up the difference. It is all how you look at it. You can always limit yourself to how many pots you chug, creating your own challenge. You could even roll play it, in that your char doesn’t like the taste of the pots, or thinks they are unmanly, or some such!

[Blakes 7]

I second Kahryls suggestion, toxicity should be introduced to nightmare and hard levels to prevent overuse of healing potions; for instance - after consuming your second healing potion it should wipe out your character and make them less effective in combat- continued use further detriments your attacking ability to the point where use of potions leads to a character collapsing from the strain on their bodies and being out of the fight.

[HoLyEmperor]

Blakes 7 wrote...

I second Kahryls suggestion, toxicity should be introduced to nightmare and hard levels to prevent overuse of healing potions; for instance - after consuming your second healing potion it should wipe out your character and make them less effective in combat- continued use further detriments your attacking ability to the point where use of potions leads to a character collapsing from the strain on their bodies and being out of the fight.

This would just encourage more Force Field shenannigans. 

EDIT:  A bit humorous, but when I clicked on this thread it was right below one asking why Normal is so hard.  It's going to be hard to satisfy everyone with the difficulty options.

Modifié par HoLyEmperor, 20 novembre 2009 - 10:10 .

[Rynas]

HoLyEmperor wrote...

Blakes 7 wrote...

I second Kahryls suggestion, toxicity should be introduced to nightmare and hard levels to prevent overuse of healing potions; for instance - after consuming your second healing potion it should wipe out your character and make them less effective in combat- continued use further detriments your attacking ability to the point where use of potions leads to a character collapsing from the strain on their bodies and being out of the fight.

This would just encourage more Force Field shenannigans. 

EDIT:  A bit humorous, but when I clicked on this thread it was right below one asking why Normal is so hard.  It's going to be hard to satisfy everyone with the difficulty options.

Haha, I was just about to say the same thing.

[Raxxman]

the main issue I have with Nightmare is it just cranks up the hitpoints, dps and resistances of your opponents,



some fights towards the end of the games boil down to an uber boss who basically never misses, hits for 100s of damage a swing, and is 99% immune to all the CC in the game. Even if the CC does get through to the boss they burn through it in 1/4 the time.



While I agree that does sound like a nightmare scenario all it boils down to is a DPS race, which requires heal pots to deal with the 1000s of hp the enemy has, or Force field cheese to exploit the AI who's too stupid to stop attacking a target invulnerable to damage.



This to me simply doesn't make a fun challenging game, basically you know what you have to do so there's no strat, it's just a dps race.



It's also immersion breaking when this foe could clearly solo a high dragon without breaking a sweat.

[Realmjumper]

I recommend you get the add on for no auto level party members and respecialization. Helps a ton so you get the strongest characters and spec the party members that join you how you want.

[Realmjumper]

Double post sorry about that but here is links for add ons.

http://social.bioware.com/project/469/

http://www.dragonage...s/file.php?id=4

Modifié par Realmjumper, 20 novembre 2009 - 11:19 .

[Forumtroll]

Potions? What are pot-- OH. OH. Right some people don't makes use of Captivating song and Force Field.