112 réponses à ce sujet

[MarchWaltz]

I wouldn't mind a UI change. Someone made a picture of it a while back, basically we still keep the ammo system, except it is a bar that builds up verses numbers, then you pop the clip once the bar is full, which means the gun is overheated.

[Da Mecca]

Meh...it ain't that serious.

There are bigger things to worry about

[jellmoo32]

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

"Whine about how they can't shoot infinitely anymore"?

Hardly. More about how we can't avoid scrounging for ammo in order to progress, and about how the lore explanation makes little sense (and imagine what scrounging will be like when we're fighting through much bigger levels in ME3).

I don't really care one way or another about the proposal (though I'll say that the notion that such a change would be as easy as the OP thinks is almost certainly incorrect), but was there ever a point where you were scrounging for ammo in ME2? It was beyond plentiful, to the point that the ammo mechanic may as well have never been implemented.

[Someone With Mass]

wepeel_ wrote...
Different things are important to different people. Judging by your signature, you wouldn't be too happy if certain things that were established in ME2 were changed and glossed over in ME3, either.

You mean Tali? I honestly didn't care what her role would be in ME3, as long as she's there.

As for the ammo system, BioWare made a hybrid system, they tested it, and they didn't like it. And I accepted that. It's their game, their rules. The forum should be grateful that they're listening to even half of the stuff we're demanding/asking for. They've been unbelievably generous with everything.

[Yew Suck]

RolandX9 wrote...

Okay, so some of us are still having a hard time coping with a change in a videogame. Will you give us a cookie?  

Shortened the OP.

Modifié par Yew Suck, 27 mai 2011 - 02:34 .

[RideUrLightning]

Screw compromise. They should have never done away with it to begin with. You can thank EA for that. The weapon modding was so much better in ME1 with the overheating mechanic. This game is becoming more and more of an action game, rather than an RPG it seems.

[Captain_Obvious_au]

I agree that the thermal clip issue was poorly implemented and the in-game explanation makes absolutely no sense.

That's why I simply bypass the issue on PC by making every weapon have infinite ammo. That way the weapons essentially work the same way as in ME1, and you still get the cool thermal-heatsink-ejection animation.

[Bogsnot1]

RolandX9 wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...
Buy a PC. Buy ME3 on PC. Mod it.
Problem solved.

You know, my first thought was "yeah, because I really want to buy ME 1 and 2 again." The more I think about it though, the more I like this solution. I don't have to worry about importing, because mods allow for a custom-created import. I don't have to worry about "one-world" companions I like, because they can be modded back in. And I don't have to worry about a wonky Paragon/Renegade system, because...yeah. Plus the PC version is typically ten bucks less.

The only down sides I see are that my wife likes to watch me play (a lot harder in front of a monitor than in the living room) and that some of what Evil Chris Priestly has said may imply that modders are going to be hosed come ME3. If I go this route, I'd definitely have to wait until the game's been out a while to make sure that the mod community isn't running into hard-coded resistance.

Most video card these days have a HDMI output, and if not, most modern LCD/Plasma TV's have a DB-15 monitor input. Wireless mouse/keyboard and youre good to go.
Modders being hosed is likely aimed at those who modded their save games for maxiing out skills and paragon/renegade scores, more than those who mod the game ini files for customisations to weapons, AI and the like.

[Epic777]

The chance of this happening is the same as bioware bringing back immunity spamming enemies

[wepeel_]

Someone With Mass wrote...

You mean Tali? I honestly didn't care what her role would be in ME3, as long as she's there.

As for the ammo system, BioWare made a hybrid system, they tested it, and they didn't like it. And I accepted that. It's their game, their rules. The forum should be grateful that they're listening to even half of the stuff we're demanding/asking for. They've been unbelievably generous with everything.

Well, of course it's ultimately their choice. It's their game as you say. However, if this forum isn't the place for bringing up what you hope to see in ME3 or didn't like with ME2, even if those issues might seem petty to you, then where is? It would seem pretty boring if all that was going on here were people patting each other on the back and cheering BioWare on.

[CroGamer002]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

And hybrid system is even worse. Gameplay and lore wise.

Actually, I would argue that a hybrid system would be the one to make the most sense, lore-wise. In "Lore-land" (which is distinctly different from "Gameplay-land"), thermal clips and conventional ME1-style cooling systems should complement one another, rather than one system completely replacing the other in just two years.

This system is way more advanced then clips and overheat system( how can you be sure that thing won't blow up in your face?) and it would be extremely expensive.

Considering that almost every battle are hit-and-run while long time wars use ships, hybrid system is not worth it and overheat system is not good for CQB.

And:

"Never forget that your weapon was made by the lowest bidder."
— Unknown

[Cheesy Blue]

Mesina2 wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

And hybrid system is even worse. Gameplay and lore wise.

Actually, I would argue that a hybrid system would be the one to make the most sense, lore-wise. In "Lore-land" (which is distinctly different from "Gameplay-land"), thermal clips and conventional ME1-style cooling systems should complement one another, rather than one system completely replacing the other in just two years.

This system is way more advanced then clips and overheat system( how can you be sure that thing won't blow up in your face?) and it would be extremely expensive.

Considering that almost every battle are hit-and-run while long time wars use ships, hybrid system is not worth it and overheat system is not good for CQB.

And:

"Never forget that your weapon was made by the lowest bidder."
— Unknown

I think it would work better (In the fiction I mean) if they implemented a hybrid of both technologies in small arms.

Non eject able Heat sink for fights of attrition and long range engagements.

Eject able Thermal Clips for up close and personal CQB fights.

The ability to switch out the two systems on the fly would be amazing and would add to the versatility and killing potential of the solider.

[CroGamer002]

Cheesy Blue wrote...


I think it would work better (In the fiction I mean) if they implemented a hybrid of both technologies in small arms.

Non eject able Heat sink for fights of attrition and long range engagements.

Eject able Thermal Clips for up close and personal CQB fights.

The ability to switch out the two systems on the fly would be amazing and would add to the versatility and killing potential of the solider.

Still it has to be researched and tested to work properly.

In 2 years that's not possible.


And still, Thermal clips are cheap and like I said before, it doesn't worth it. Most attacks are hit-and-run while wars use ships so I doubt some there can be some stronghold groundside to hold the line for long time and hope not to run out of ammo.

Expense doesn't worth it.



Plus gameplay wise it sucks.

[The Gutted Gnome]

In real combat situations a long drawn out engagement would involve using ammo from dead soldiers (friends as well as foes). So this mechanic in ME is valid.

However I did like the fact that with ME1 Bioware tried to re-imagine ammo use/weapons to give fire fights more of a sci fi feel.

At the end of the day tho this comes along way down my wants list after
Strong dialogue
Depth of characters
Involving Side missions
Strength of main story
Immersion
etc etc

[Inquisitor Recon]

I think a hybrid system should be something unlockable after you beat the game once. Sort of a little extra to mix things up a bit.

[AtreiyaN7]

No thanks - having the ability to fire with essentially unlimited ammo (a la ME1) isn't strategic at all for me. I remember modding my Spectre pistol and that combat at max level with ridiculously easy.

[JayTheWolf]

 I thought the infinite ammo was nice for ME1. But I think the thermal clip idea is nice in ME2. 
For ME3?
Stay the same. But make sure we can get more ammo. Or buy a ****load to take with us. I hate scrounging around to find it. :/
But infinite sounds too unruly and incredibly amateur. 

[ThomasAM]

The thermal clips system just makes the game more fun, ti doesn't work lorewise but i at least am willing to sacrifice storey for a game that is actually FUN.
P.S. I did play the first and second games

[Merlin 47]

ME 1 was a great game. But that whole "infinite ammo" deal took all the challenge out of it. When they added clips for weapons in ME 2, it was a great idea. Turned combat into actual combat.

But....if you really want "infinite ammo" again, you're probably better off buying all three again (as much as I know you may dislike the idea) and mod it.

[Durgon Ironfist]

RolandX9 wrote...

Okay, so some of us aren't happy about the thermal clip situation. It's not changing. I'm guessing that we have zero leverage on this issue for ME3, since most of us are harcore fans dating back to ME1 and Bioware knows we're buying 3. So here's some carrot instead of stick: hey, Bioware, I'll bet a *lot* of us would pay a couple of bucks/preorder through EA if you included some kind of old-school infinite ammo goodie in the DLC slate and/or 
Limited Special Collector's Ultimate Edition.

This way, the hardcore shooter fans can have their "ammo" mechanic and look down on us old-school fans, and us old-school fans...can slot our thermal vents and not give a damn.  Thoughts?

[Clonedzero]

no.

[DieBySword]

JayTheWolf wrote...

 I thought the infinite ammo was nice for ME1. But I think the thermal clip idea is nice in ME2. 
For ME3?
Stay the same. But make sure we can get more ammo. Or buy a ****load to take with us. I hate scrounging around to find it. :/
But infinite sounds too unruly and incredibly amateur. 

Many ppl say ammo is no concern in ME2 so actualy we can say ME1&2 have unlimited ammo but ME2 makes you run to restock it after a fight. So both games by your view are "unruly and incredibly amateur".

People forget that the ammo clip/total limit dosnt bring anything new to the game except changing the GUI and lore.

1) Me2 clip size vs ME1 overheat - we can shot continuously a certain limited number of shoots in both games the only difference is that ME2 shows you a counter and ME1 a rising overheat bar. So 30 shots in ME2 gun can be the same as continuously shooting ME1 AR and getting it overheated, both limit the total avaible ammo. What changes here is that ME2 limit is static and dosnt replenish so you have to manualy reload (like a cooldown) when in ME1 the player could choose how he plays and gain more shoots fired before overheating, and if you didnt shoot your weapon shooting capability replenished automaticly without any manual reload mechanism needed.

Whats the difference here ? We abandoned a unique overheat system for a beat down old ammo system used by every shooter game around. Way to appeal to a broader audience.

2) Me2 total ammo count vs ME1 unlimited ammo - like said before many ppl have no concerns with ammo in me2 and never run out of it and stock after every fight back so we have both games with unlimited ammo but in ME2 you have too make pointless scavenging for the sake of the ammo game mechanics. Furthemore there are 2 type of thermal clips one for snipers/shootguns and the other for the rest so you can sometimes be lacking certain gun type ammo limiting the use off your favourite weapon or class specific weapon. Some will say its making you use other weapons but its not the ammo but the enemy protection that do it so why punish using a certain gun type.

Whats the difference here ? They limit certain guns in favour of other punishing player who want to use a gun they like. Why do that? If I use the wrong gun for the job im geting punished by the enemy protection so why punish me once more by limiting my ammo count and making me scavenge for ammo after every gunfight.

3) "limited ammo made the game more tactical" argument - no it did not, the glass shields and "glue to wall" ME2 mechanics made it seem tactical because you need to cover in every gunfight and shooting for more than 2 seconds will result in a game over for many ppl. Me1 you had more life and shield energy so you could move a bit longer but you had to use cover and crouch behind object anyway

Whats the difference here ? We get a more gears of war shooter gameplay and frustrating lack of health, nearly confinding us to cover all the time.

4) "the ME2 guns are different (unique) because the have different fire options" argument - Yeah in ME2 there are weapons that can single fire, burts or full auto and are limited to one option and ME1 has only full auto shooting. So what ! In Me1 you can decide yourself if you want to burt/semi/full-auto and you arent limited to only one option so its no different from ME2 but gives you the choice to use it as you want. But there will be ppl who say they are not, so if Me1 had a ingame togle button to switch semi/burst/full-auto would you still say it isnt the same ?!?

Whats the difference here ? No difference here we get the same stuff with less inventory cloging ME1 had and more different model designs but we are limited on a certain gun fire style and no mod support like ME1 had. All in all its a draw here.

So we sacrificed ME1 gameplay uniqnes and lore continuity for an old style shooter mechanics and tedious ammo restocking. Enemies cant sabotage our weapons anymore so ppl wont be owned by an AI anymore because now we have a different type of "unlimited" ammo We can take 60 shoots from an ME2 AR and reload 2times x 2 second  or we could shoot 60 or more times with an Me1 rifle and reload 3-4 seconds and thats counting if we emptied both clips total on the ME1 weapons. If we didnt then we have a manual 2 second cooldown when ME1 weapons would replenish itself and dont need pointless ammo searching

Modifié par DieBySword, 27 mai 2011 - 01:52 .

[Aimi]

Someone With Mass wrote...

wepeel_ wrote...
Different things are important to different people. Judging by your signature, you wouldn't be too happy if certain things that were established in ME2 were changed and glossed over in ME3, either.

You mean Tali? I honestly didn't care what her role would be in ME3, as long as she's there.

As for the ammo system, BioWare made a hybrid system, they tested it, and they didn't like it. And I accepted that. It's their game, their rules. The forum should be grateful that they're listening to even half of the stuff we're demanding/asking for. They've been unbelievably generous with everything.

If this forum's postcount were meaningful, I'd be annoyed with you for making posts with carbon copies of my opinions and making any attempt on my part to post same look me-tooish and silly. 

[HTTP 404]

I have no problem with the ammo system. I don't like the implication that OP thinks fans of me1 would prefer a cool down system. I am a fan FROM WAY back in Me1 (sarcasm). anyways, there's nothing hardcore about having an ammo mechanic....

Maybe bioware can throw in a gun that only requires cooling to reload....

[ArcanistLibram]

RolandX9 wrote...

This way, the hardcore shooter fans can have their "ammo" mechanic and look down on us old-school fans, and us old-school fans...can slot our thermal vents and not give a damn.

lulz

The last shooter I played was Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy and I like the clips more than cooldown.