112 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexRmF]

SennenScale wrote...

CajNatalie wrote...

You know, I can aim pretty well... I don't have ammo problems...
Worthless do-nothing paper armor makes me ensure every shot counts. Ammo has nothing to do with it.
I do not use the ammo arms either... I prefer the stabilization gauntlets.

I support this because it allows continuity with lore.
A break in lore that's actually significant enough to be noticeable in gameplay is just something that constantly acts as an annoyance.

Same for me. The game ensures that you will make your shots count without the ammo mechanic anyway, and I've played enough FPS games to have it ingrained in me to make every shot count. But the lore issue is incredibly annoying considering it's present every second of gameplay. Then replays of ME1 double the annoyance factor considering customizable weapons were better than the geth weapon you could acquire.

Support.

I'm with you guys in this... I never ran out of ammo in ME2, but it really annoys me picking up ammo after each fight especially when I think about the ME1 system, and I also want to use my sniper rifle or shotgun in all fights without the worry of running out of ammo<_<

[JayhartRIC]

daqs wrote...

Jorina Leto wrote...

Because it's an RPG. And the standard shooter ammo mechanic violates the lore. Therefore the standard ammo shooter mechanic shouldn't be in ME2 and ME3.

Pft.  People only complain about lore violations when the lore violation doesn't match up with their preferences.  Nobody's complaining about how biotics don't work at all like the Codex says they do, and nobody ever has, because if biotics worked the way they do in the Codex, they would be boring and nobody would want to use them in combat.  And that particular "problem" has been around since the first game.

Completely agree.

[MrFob]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Buy a PC. Buy ME3 on PC. Mod it.

Problem solved.

I just hope that we can still mod it in ME3. The only reason, it is rather easy to mod to a hybrid system is because BW never bothered to remove one of their tested systems from the config files. Let's just hope they decide to leave it in for ME3 as well.

[JKoopman]

C9316 wrote...

Bioware shouldn't have to change something so small just because some people want to whine about how they can't shoot infinitely anymore.

BioWare shouldn't have to change something so small just because some people want to whine about how they can shoot infinitely with certain overpowered mods.

See how that works just as well in response to the ME1 complainers?

I get kind of tired of having to repeat this, but no one is asking for BioWare to change THEIR design for Mass Effect. We're asking for them to RETURN to their original design, which they changed IN RESPONSE to whiners complaining about the cooldown system being broken in ME1. All they needed to do was tone down/get rid of the Frictionless Materials mod and the system would've been fine, but as became so common with much of ME2's design philosophy, BioWare threw the baby out with the bathwater.

Modifié par JKoopman, 28 mai 2011 - 04:45 .

[stevej713]

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

"Whine about how they can't shoot infinitely anymore"?

Hardly. More about how we can't avoid scrounging for ammo in order to progress, and about how the lore explanation makes little sense (and imagine what scrounging will be like when we're fighting through much bigger levels in ME3).

...

Having just finished Mass Effect 2 for the third time, I can't ever remember running out of ammo or searching for more.  If you are then that simply means you need to aim.  And I'll be the first to tell you that I'm terrible at shooters.

Modifié par stevej713, 28 mai 2011 - 04:51 .

[tjzsf]

Thermal clips do not make firefights seem more "realistic" for one simple reason:
ME1 established that in the future, we have solved the logistical problem of ammo. ME2 tells us that reintroducing a problem is somehow better. The ability to shoot infinitely sells me on the idea that I am a future super soldier. Being tied back to a problem that was formerly fixed does not.

[tjzsf]

Also, Someone With Mass, take a gorram intro to business class.

[ItsFreakinJesus]

Why do people always assume that only those who were hooked with Mass Effect 2 prefer the heat sink system and those who started with ME1 care for the the cooldown?

Mass Effect 1 is my second most played game ever (the first being Metal Gear Solid 2), and I prefer the mechanics of ME2 over ME1 by a long shot. Have you ever tried using a shotgun with High Explosive Rounds in ME1? As badass as it is, it's a chore since every shot causes the gun to overheat instantly.

[AlexRmF]

ItsFreakinJesus wrote...

Why do people always assume that only those who were hooked with Mass Effect 2 prefer the heat sink system and those who started with ME1 care for the the cooldown?

Mass Effect 1 is my second most played game ever (the first being Metal Gear Solid 2), and I prefer the mechanics of ME2 over ME1 by a long shot. Have you ever tried using a shotgun with High Explosive Rounds in ME1? As badass as it is, it's a chore since every shot causes the gun to overheat instantly.

you're not supposed to use high explosive rounds in anything else than a sniper rifle... I remember I had Garrus use them on his sniper rifle and it was spectacular.
I like accurate and at the same time medium firing weapons (pistols), and I must say the frictioneless materials trick wasn't so useful when I played the game on hardcore and I was "forced" to put eiter an accuracy upgrade or a damage one alongiside the trictionelss materials upgrade to be effective and actually kill a regenerating krogan
I'm saying this because many people complained about how you can endlessly shoot a gun in ME1 without it overheating if you used the right upgrades, but those people most likely never played on anything other than normal or easy dificulty, otherwise they wouldn't have used the "much hated" upgrades together...<_<

[Ace of Dawn]

AlexRmF wrote...

ItsFreakinJesus wrote...

Why do people always assume that only those who were hooked with Mass Effect 2 prefer the heat sink system and those who started with ME1 care for the the cooldown?

Mass Effect 1 is my second most played game ever (the first being Metal Gear Solid 2), and I prefer the mechanics of ME2 over ME1 by a long shot. Have you ever tried using a shotgun with High Explosive Rounds in ME1? As badass as it is, it's a chore since every shot causes the gun to overheat instantly.

you're not supposed to use high explosive rounds in anything else than a sniper rifle... I remember I had Garrus use them on his sniper rifle and it was spectacular.
I like accurate and at the same time medium firing weapons (pistols), and I must say the frictioneless materials trick wasn't so useful when I played the game on hardcore and I was "forced" to put eiter an accuracy upgrade or a damage one alongiside the trictionelss materials upgrade to be effective and actually kill a regenerating krogan
I'm saying this because many people complained about how you can endlessly shoot a gun in ME1 without it overheating if you used the right upgrades, but those people most likely never played on anything other than normal or easy dificulty, otherwise they wouldn't have used the "much hated" upgrades together...<_<

Played Insanity and Veteran a few times, and I never felt my accuracy was at a loss to the point that I needed to install an upgrade to offset it. Currently playing Hardcore, and still don't feel that is the case. On top of that, I don't even have the upgrades available to me to do that, and I still don't find overheating an issue.

Also, I find your first remark funny, as if there were guides somewhere stating where you can and cannot put upgrades.

The fact of the matter is that CD mechanics really don't have a place in ME2 gameplay mechanics. And by announcing that they will remain in ME3, that suggests that is still true.

[The Spamming Troll]

daqs wrote...

Jorina Leto wrote...

Because it's an RPG. And the standard shooter ammo mechanic violates the lore. Therefore the standard ammo shooter mechanic shouldn't be in ME2 and ME3.

Pft.  People only complain about lore violations when the lore violation doesn't match up with their preferences.  Nobody's complaining about how biotics don't work at all like the Codex says they do, and nobody ever has, because if biotics worked the way they do in the Codex, they would be boring and nobody would want to use them in combat.  And that particular "problem" has been around since the first game.

actually there are concerns about how biotics work in the MEfranchise. im not ure how to add a link to those topics tho.

insanity fixed that "problem" by eliminatiing biotics almost completely. ......oops, bioware.

[lazuli]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

actually there are concerns about how biotics work in the MEfranchise. im not ure how to add a link to those topics tho.

insanity fixed that "problem" by eliminatiing biotics almost completely. ......oops, bioware.

Here's a recent topic.  When you type replies, The Spamming Troll, you can easily add links by using the standard form, not just the quick reply box.  If you want to add a link in the standard form, highlight the text you want to be a link and then press the button with the world and the chain on it.  The button will be right above the text box, near the center of a row of buttons.

[STG]

Someone With Mass wrote...

How about just accepting the way BioWare wants to take their damn game and stop whining about something so insignificant?

Whining obviously works since it brought gay romance into ME3.

[lazuli]

STG wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

How about just accepting the way BioWare wants to take their damn game and stop whining about something so insignificant?

Whining obviously works since it brought gay romance into ME3.

So now we're equating virtual social justice and a partial elimination of sexist double standards with requesting unlimited ammo.

[DieBySword]

[quote]STG wrote...
[quote]Someone With Mass wrote...

How about just accepting the way BioWare wants to take their damn game and stop whining about something so insignificant?[/quote]

Whining obviously works since it brought limited ammo into ME2.
[/quote]
[/quote]
Fixed that for you

Modifié par DieBySword, 28 mai 2011 - 04:26 .

[STG]

lazuli wrote...
So now we're equating virtual social justice and a partial elimination of sexist double standards with requesting unlimited ammo.

You want to fight for social justice and against sexism, go on the street, or better yet contact your goverment instead of preaching on a video game forums.

[Someone With Mass]

DieBySword wrote...

STG wrote...
Whining obviously works since it brought limited ammo into ME2, but some people suck so bad at playing the game, they need to cheat.

Fixed that for you

Double fix:wizard:

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 28 mai 2011 - 04:32 .

[Someone With Mass]

STG wrote...
Whining obviously works since it brought gay romance into ME3.

That's a big part of the game for most players, though. Shooting bullets isn't. People are just so butthurt about how it isn't true to the lore and can't just accept it and move on.

[Ultai]

Someone With Mass wrote...

STG wrote...
Whining obviously works since it brought gay romance into ME3.

That's a big part of the game for most players, though. Shooting bullets isn't. People are just so butthurt about how it isn't true to the lore and can't just accept it and move on.

Another funny thing I see is people complaining about biotic cooldowns, when it's represented in lore and story that biotics are mentally exhausting (at least for humans, not sure how asari handle it).  Essentially they're not spammable, but gameplay dictates they must be without ramifications.  They're keeping thermal clips, they didn't like a hybrid system, accept it and move on.

[Someone With Mass]

Ultai wrote...
Another funny thing I see is people complaining about biotic cooldowns, when it's represented in lore and story that biotics are mentally exhausting (at least for humans, not sure how asari handle it).  Essentially they're not spammable, but gameplay dictates they must be without ramifications.  They're keeping thermal clips, they didn't like a hybrid system, accept it and move on.

Yeah, there are tons of other stuff in Mass Effect that aren't exactly true to the lore either, but I haven't seen that many people nag about it.

Like how shields aren't supposed to stop punches.

[Phaedon]

I also find it rather annoying how people complain about the lore, when I see (see the last pages in my thread) nothing that retcons it.

[CroGamer002]

Phaedon wrote...

I also find it rather annoying how people complain about the lore, when I see (see the last pages in my thread) nothing that retcons it.

Actually it is a small retcon that I believe it was necessary.

We never saw Geth using Thermal clips in ME1. That's the only retcon, but seriously it is very minor.

[Phaedon]

Mesina2 wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

I also find it rather annoying how people complain about the lore, when I see (see the last pages in my thread) nothing that retcons it.

Actually it is a small retcon that I believe it was necessary.

We never saw Geth using Thermal clips in ME1. That's the only retcon, but seriously it is very minor.

Well, we didn't see a lot of stuff about Geth in ME1, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist.

[Sgt Stryker]

Mesina2 wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

I also find it rather annoying how people complain about the lore, when I see (see the last pages in my thread) nothing that retcons it.

Actually it is a small retcon that I believe it was necessary.

We never saw Geth using Thermal clips in ME1. That's the only retcon, but seriously it is very minor.

We also never see ME1 style weapon mods in ME2 gameplay. Does that mean an entire intergalactic industry disappeared in two years? No.

The thermal clip "retcon" only becomes a problem when you take a literal interpretation of the gameplay. As someone else pointed out earlier, gameplay biotic powers can be used indefinitely, as long as you wait for the cooldown timer to tick down. In the codex, which reflects MEverse reality, only a few powers can be used before the user needs to eat a power bar and take a nap.

Similarly, the codex does not imply that thermal clips universally replaced ME1-style cooling systems. All it says is that the geth developed them, and organic armies eventually adopted them. The most logical interpretation is that both systems exist side-by-side, and each has their advantages and disadvantages.

The reason so many people think thermal clips are a lore-breaker, is because they're the most noticeable discrepancy between gameplay and lore.

[Ace of Dawn]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

I also find it rather annoying how people complain about the lore, when I see (see the last pages in my thread) nothing that retcons it.

Actually it is a small retcon that I believe it was necessary.

We never saw Geth using Thermal clips in ME1. That's the only retcon, but seriously it is very minor.

We also never see ME1 style weapon mods in ME2 gameplay. Does that mean an entire intergalactic industry disappeared in two years? No.

The thermal clip "retcon" only becomes a problem when you take a literal interpretation of the gameplay. As someone else pointed out earlier, gameplay biotic powers can be used indefinitely, as long as you wait for the cooldown timer to tick down. In the codex, which reflects MEverse reality, only a few powers can be used before the user needs to eat a power bar and take a nap.

Similarly, the codex does not imply that thermal clips universally replaced ME1-style cooling systems. All it says is that the geth developed them, and organic armies eventually adopted them. The most logical interpretation is that both systems exist side-by-side, and each has their advantages and disadvantages.

The reason so many people think thermal clips are a lore-breaker, is because they're the most noticeable discrepancy between gameplay and lore.

I like this human. He understands.