112 réponses à ce sujet

[Murmillos]

Phaedon wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

I also find it rather annoying how people complain about the lore, when I see (see the last pages in my thread) nothing that retcons it.

Actually it is a small retcon that I believe it was necessary.

We never saw Geth using Thermal clips in ME1. That's the only retcon, but seriously it is very minor.

Well, we didn't see a lot of stuff about Geth in ME1, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist.

Or more plausible, it wasn't developed (or actively used) by the Geth until after the events of ME1.

[wepeel_]

RolandX9 wrote...

Okay, so some of us aren't happy about the thermal clip situation. It's not changing. I'm guessing that we have zero leverage on this issue for ME3, since most of us are harcore fans dating back to ME1 and Bioware knows we're buying 3. So here's some carrot instead of stick: hey, Bioware, I'll bet a *lot* of us would pay a couple of bucks/preorder through EA if you included some kind of old-school infinite ammo goodie in the DLC slate and/or 
Limited Special Collector's Ultimate Edition.

This way, the hardcore shooter fans can have their "ammo" mechanic and look down on us old-school fans, and us old-school fans...can slot our thermal vents and not give a damn.  Thoughts?

It's a good idea, but pretty much no chance it'll happen. However, there is a fair chance you'll be able to edit ME3 in similar ways as ME2, thereby modifying ammo/thermal clip capabilities as you see fit.
It's not an optimal solution either, but it gives you a way to slightly circumvent the fallacious thermal clip lore implementation.

Modifié par wepeel_, 28 mai 2011 - 10:22 .

[mauro2222]

DieBySword wrote...

JayTheWolf wrote...

 I thought the infinite ammo was nice for ME1. But I think the thermal clip idea is nice in ME2. 
For ME3?
Stay the same. But make sure we can get more ammo. Or buy a ****load to take with us. I hate scrounging around to find it. :/
But infinite sounds too unruly and incredibly amateur. 

Many ppl say ammo is no concern in ME2 so actualy we can say ME1&2 have unlimited ammo but ME2 makes you run to restock it after a fight. So both games by your view are "unruly and incredibly amateur".

People forget that the ammo clip/total limit dosnt bring anything new to the game except changing the GUI and lore.

1) Me2 clip size vs ME1 overheat - we can shot continuously a certain limited number of shoots in both games the only difference is that ME2 shows you a counter and ME1 a rising overheat bar. So 30 shots in ME2 gun can be the same as continuously shooting ME1 AR and getting it overheated, both limit the total avaible ammo. What changes here is that ME2 limit is static and dosnt replenish so you have to manualy reload (like a cooldown) when in ME1 the player could choose how he plays and gain more shoots fired before overheating, and if you didnt shoot your weapon shooting capability replenished automaticly without any manual reload mechanism needed.

Whats the difference here ? We abandoned a unique overheat system for a beat down old ammo system used by every shooter game around. Way to appeal to a broader audience.

2) Me2 total ammo count vs ME1 unlimited ammo - like said before many ppl have no concerns with ammo in me2 and never run out of it and stock after every fight back so we have both games with unlimited ammo but in ME2 you have too make pointless scavenging for the sake of the ammo game mechanics. Furthemore there are 2 type of thermal clips one for snipers/shootguns and the other for the rest so you can sometimes be lacking certain gun type ammo limiting the use off your favourite weapon or class specific weapon. Some will say its making you use other weapons but its not the ammo but the enemy protection that do it so why punish using a certain gun type.

Whats the difference here ? They limit certain guns in favour of other punishing player who want to use a gun they like. Why do that? If I use the wrong gun for the job im geting punished by the enemy protection so why punish me once more by limiting my ammo count and making me scavenge for ammo after every gunfight.

3) "limited ammo made the game more tactical" argument - no it did not, the glass shields and "glue to wall" ME2 mechanics made it seem tactical because you need to cover in every gunfight and shooting for more than 2 seconds will result in a game over for many ppl. Me1 you had more life and shield energy so you could move a bit longer but you had to use cover and crouch behind object anyway

Whats the difference here ? We get a more gears of war shooter gameplay and frustrating lack of health, nearly confinding us to cover all the time.

4) "the ME2 guns are different (unique) because the have different fire options" argument - Yeah in ME2 there are weapons that can single fire, burts or full auto and are limited to one option and ME1 has only full auto shooting. So what ! In Me1 you can decide yourself if you want to burt/semi/full-auto and you arent limited to only one option so its no different from ME2 but gives you the choice to use it as you want. But there will be ppl who say they are not, so if Me1 had a ingame togle button to switch semi/burst/full-auto would you still say it isnt the same ?!?

Whats the difference here ? No difference here we get the same stuff with less inventory cloging ME1 had and more different model designs but we are limited on a certain gun fire style and no mod support like ME1 had. All in all its a draw here.

So we sacrificed ME1 gameplay uniqnes and lore continuity for an old style shooter mechanics and tedious ammo restocking. Enemies cant sabotage our weapons anymore so ppl wont be owned by an AI anymore because now we have a different type of "unlimited" ammo We can take 60 shoots from an ME2 AR and reload 2times x 2 second  or we could shoot 60 or more times with an Me1 rifle and reload 3-4 seconds and thats counting if we emptied both clips total on the ME1 weapons. If we didnt then we have a manual 2 second cooldown when ME1 weapons would replenish itself and dont need pointless ammo searching

I LOVE YOU <3
What I hate most, is when people say "yeah but, with 2 cooling mods you shoot forever" nobody wants that, for god sake!!! it was the only thing that I hated but I compensated this with explosive rounds xD

[Homebound]

i remember how in me1 i wouldnt even touch any of the other guns except the spectre x AR. then me2 came out, i learned how to juggle weapons as a soldier and contributed to one of the few soldier guides out there.

[Valmarn]

mauro2222 wrote...

DieBySword wrote...

JayTheWolf wrote...

 I thought the infinite ammo was nice for ME1. But I think the thermal clip idea is nice in ME2. 
For ME3?
Stay the same. But make sure we can get more ammo. Or buy a ****load to take with us. I hate scrounging around to find it. :/
But infinite sounds too unruly and incredibly amateur. 

Many ppl say ammo is no concern in ME2 so actualy we can say ME1&2 have unlimited ammo but ME2 makes you run to restock it after a fight. So both games by your view are "unruly and incredibly amateur".

People forget that the ammo clip/total limit dosnt bring anything new to the game except changing the GUI and lore.

1) Me2 clip size vs ME1 overheat - we can shot continuously a certain limited number of shoots in both games the only difference is that ME2 shows you a counter and ME1 a rising overheat bar. So 30 shots in ME2 gun can be the same as continuously shooting ME1 AR and getting it overheated, both limit the total avaible ammo. What changes here is that ME2 limit is static and dosnt replenish so you have to manualy reload (like a cooldown) when in ME1 the player could choose how he plays and gain more shoots fired before overheating, and if you didnt shoot your weapon shooting capability replenished automaticly without any manual reload mechanism needed.

Whats the difference here ? We abandoned a unique overheat system for a beat down old ammo system used by every shooter game around. Way to appeal to a broader audience.

2) Me2 total ammo count vs ME1 unlimited ammo - like said before many ppl have no concerns with ammo in me2 and never run out of it and stock after every fight back so we have both games with unlimited ammo but in ME2 you have too make pointless scavenging for the sake of the ammo game mechanics. Furthemore there are 2 type of thermal clips one for snipers/shootguns and the other for the rest so you can sometimes be lacking certain gun type ammo limiting the use off your favourite weapon or class specific weapon. Some will say its making you use other weapons but its not the ammo but the enemy protection that do it so why punish using a certain gun type.

Whats the difference here ? They limit certain guns in favour of other punishing player who want to use a gun they like. Why do that? If I use the wrong gun for the job im geting punished by the enemy protection so why punish me once more by limiting my ammo count and making me scavenge for ammo after every gunfight.

3) "limited ammo made the game more tactical" argument - no it did not, the glass shields and "glue to wall" ME2 mechanics made it seem tactical because you need to cover in every gunfight and shooting for more than 2 seconds will result in a game over for many ppl. Me1 you had more life and shield energy so you could move a bit longer but you had to use cover and crouch behind object anyway

Whats the difference here ? We get a more gears of war shooter gameplay and frustrating lack of health, nearly confinding us to cover all the time.

4) "the ME2 guns are different (unique) because the have different fire options" argument - Yeah in ME2 there are weapons that can single fire, burts or full auto and are limited to one option and ME1 has only full auto shooting. So what ! In Me1 you can decide yourself if you want to burt/semi/full-auto and you arent limited to only one option so its no different from ME2 but gives you the choice to use it as you want. But there will be ppl who say they are not, so if Me1 had a ingame togle button to switch semi/burst/full-auto would you still say it isnt the same ?!?

Whats the difference here ? No difference here we get the same stuff with less inventory cloging ME1 had and more different model designs but we are limited on a certain gun fire style and no mod support like ME1 had. All in all its a draw here.

So we sacrificed ME1 gameplay uniqnes and lore continuity for an old style shooter mechanics and tedious ammo restocking. Enemies cant sabotage our weapons anymore so ppl wont be owned by an AI anymore because now we have a different type of "unlimited" ammo We can take 60 shoots from an ME2 AR and reload 2times x 2 second  or we could shoot 60 or more times with an Me1 rifle and reload 3-4 seconds and thats counting if we emptied both clips total on the ME1 weapons. If we didnt then we have a manual 2 second cooldown when ME1 weapons would replenish itself and dont need pointless ammo searching

I LOVE YOU <3
What I hate most, is when people say "yeah but, with 2 cooling mods you shoot forever" nobody wants that, for god sake!!! it was the only thing that I hated but I compensated this with explosive rounds xD

QFT

[Valmarn]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

And hybrid system is even worse. Gameplay and lore wise.

Actually, I would argue that a hybrid system would be the one to make the most sense, lore-wise. In "Lore-land" (which is distinctly different from "Gameplay-land"), thermal clips and conventional ME1-style cooling systems should complement one another, rather than one system completely replacing the other in just two years.

QFT

As you said, a hybrid overheat/thermal clip system would make the most sense.

Not only would a hybrid system not break the lore, it would actually tie the two systems together. When you think about it, from Shepard's point of view, a hybrid system would hardly be different from the thermal clip system; the thermal clips are still be used, but they can actually be allowed to cool down, instead of being used just once.

What I find truly astonishing is that BioWare chose not to implement a hybrid system, considering how reasonable of a change it would be, and how well it would tie the two system together (thereby partially undoing their shortsighted ret-con).

[CroGamer002]

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[Wojtek the Soldier Bear]

Remember, folks; thermal clips are not (lore-wise) ammunition. It's simply a different way to dissipate the heat developed by weapons. That's why you don't have to collect different sizes/types of thermal clips like you would in another shooter.

The in-game explanation for the galaxy-wide conversion to thermal clips rings true in practice; you get more shots downrange in a shorter amount of time with the TC system. One of the things I hated about ME combat was, despite being 170 years in the future, I had to wait a significant amount of time for my weapons to cool down, especially in some of the larger firefights.

[Valmarn]

Wojtek the Soldier Bear wrote...

Remember, folks; thermal clips are not (lore-wise) ammunition. It's simply a different way to dissipate the heat developed by weapons. That's why you don't have to collect different sizes/types of thermal clips like you would in another shooter.

The in-game explanation for the galaxy-wide conversion to thermal clips rings true in practice; you get more shots downrange in a shorter amount of time with the TC system. One of the things I hated about ME combat was, despite being 170 years in the future, I had to wait a significant amount of time for my weapons to cool down, especially in some of the larger firefights.

Of course, thermal clips are not actually ammo magazines, but they amount to the same thing.

I don't think anyone is debating the damage capability of weapons with thermal clips; there are just a lot of us who would prefer a hybrid system, which would be more than just a compromise: it would be an improvement over either system.

Modifié par Valmarn, 23 juin 2011 - 02:24 .

[Valmarn]

Mesina2 wrote...

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Is that a response to any particular post, or were you have a "sword" fight with your vacuum cleaner?

[Dustbeard]

Think it'd take much effort to stick a toggle in the options menu so you could switch between normal reloading and ammo regen at will? It's simple enough to edit .ini files to get this effect, why not just make it an official option?

[Chromie]

I can do this for free on ME2 why would I pay to do it in ME3?

[Valmarn]

Dustbeard wrote...

Think it'd take much effort to stick a toggle in the options menu so you could switch between normal reloading and ammo regen at will? It's simple enough to edit .ini files to get this effect, why not just make it an official option?

Make it an official option, indeed. That way, at the very least, fans of the overheat system who play on the console can enjoy what PC gamers already do.

Personally, I would still prefer a single hybrid system.