1373 réponses à ce sujet

[Dragoonlordz]

Ariella wrote...

DL. I may not agree with you, but I do tend to respect you. I hope the middle ground between what did work in Da2 and what did work in DAO can be combined with some new tricks in DA3. Good criticism will get that, but until recently the good criticism was being drown out by noise coming from other corners.

Ditto I have nothing against you personally. I would adivse taking down those barriers between the two groups as those who don't wish to add anything and just attack Bioware or the developers, even the title for the pure sake of hate and revenge they tend to go away on their own and will segregate themselves without the need of others doing it for them.

I hope DA3 will appeal to me and I will watch closely to what is developed and created and fingers crossed it may appeal to all of us. But make no mistake I view DA2 as a dissapointment and big let down, something that had potential (mage vs templar war) and was squandered rushed and when all the parts were put together it did not create a great title for me or masterpiece.

Now I already covered everything I dislike about the game DA2 in my review and other threads so I'm only here now to chat on some occassions; about a series I bought and have some interest in seeing it's future developments.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 27 mai 2011 - 04:16 .

[Blood-Lord Thanatos]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Ariella wrote...

DL. I may not agree with you, but I do tend to respect you. I hope the middle ground between what did work in Da2 and what did work in DAO can be combined with some new tricks in DA3. Good criticism will get that, but until recently the good criticism was being drown out by noise coming from other corners.

Ditto I have nothing against you personally. I would adivse taking down those barriers between the two groups as those who don't wish to add anything and just attack Bioware or the developers, even the title for the pure sake of hate and revenge they tend to go away on their own and will segregate themselves without the need of others doing it for them.

I hope DA3 will appeal to me and I will watch closely to what is developed and created and fingers crossed it may appeal to all of us. But make no mistake I view DA2 as a dissapointment and big let down, something that had potential (mage vs templar war) and was squandered rushed and when all the parts were put together it did not create a great title for me or masterpiece.

in the words of Master Yoda: "Train yourself to let go"

[andar91]

Thank you, Mike, and the entire team, for making DA2. It wasn't perfect, but I like it a lot. I figure DA3 should be very interesting since you've got two titles out, the second of which deviated from the first in many ways. Now you have even more to compare and contrast and can hopefully find a happy medium between what worked in both games while inserting even more new (and hopefully good things) into the next installment. Even if a lot of the changes weren't well-received by everybody, at least it shows that you're willing to take risks and try new things.

For example, I don't think the framed narrative worked as well as everybody hoped it would. It was functional and the character writing was good, but I feel that splitting the game into three acts that weren't connected by an overriding goal severely injured the story-the main quests felt like glorified sidequests at some points, just with bigger consequences. Daring to get away from the big evil antagonist trope was interesting, but I hope we get a more clearly defined antagonist so that we have a driving force motivating us to move through the game in DA3. That was really my biggest complaint with DA3 besides the re-used environments and other minor things (the thousands of Rings and Amulets come to mind, as someone else mentioned).

Anyway, I look forward to seeing what the future brings.

[Serpieri Nei]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Serpieri Nei wrote...

I'm actually not glad that I don't have the ability to choose the weapons/armor/role my companions play. Are you saying that Fenris was unique because of what he was wearing. If that’s the case, then why give them a voice, a story, goals, or even character since it's the clothes that fleshed them out.

Clothes don't flesh them out completely, clothes help in fleshing them out? It gives them an identity?

So Lelianna, Sten, Oghren, Wynne, Shale, Allistar, and Zevran weren't fleshed out?

[SkittlesKat96]

This looks good. I just hope that the Downloadable content they release is long and interesting. They would have learned a lot about DA DLC from Origins I'm sure.

Also people disliked Neverwinter Nights 2 right? Then they made that expansions that everybody really loved?

What if DA 2 could make itself better in peoples eyes with an expansion or something? (it wouldn't make DA II better but it might make people have less of a sour taste of that part of the DA universe...)

[marshalleck]

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

Also people disliked Neverwinter Nights 2 right? Then they made that expansions that everybody really loved?

What does Obsidian have to do with this?

[Ariella]

Serpieri Nei wrote...

Ariella wrote...

Serpieri Nei wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Derrick1011 wrote...
Look at The Witcher 2. That game shows what the medium is capable of, and indeed what you are capable of accomplishing. Your challenge is to exceed the standards set there.

More story. More choices. More quality art. More personality.

We don't get any points for having more controllable party members, or, say, playable genders?

Don't get me wrong, I think TW2 is great, and I hope it does very well. There's not enough fantasy RPG out there.

Why would you get points for controllable party members when you have done quite a lot to take that control away from the player? But at least I have the male and female option left for the protagonist right?

Take control away? Where? I missed that memo? I can still control what my party members do, what they specialize in, weapons and trinkets. I'm actually glad I don't have to worry about the armor, because that was a pain and it gives each of the characters a more unique feel IMO to have their own personal armor.

Did I say I can't control the party members Ariep? 

I'm actually not glad that I don't have the ability to choose the weapons/armor/role my companions play. Are you saying that Fenris was unique because of what he was wearing. If that’s the case, then why give them a voice, a story, goals, or even character since it's the clothes that fleshed them out.

Well considering your response to Mike about taking control away, I had to ask where is the lack of control? Fenris has his own story, part of that is his weapon. He learned 2handed sword play, but that doesn't stop you from putting points in various other special abilities that come with being a warrior, any more than you are kept from putting points in spells for specific mages.

The example of Merrill is brought up. Blood mages cannot be healed by conventional spells or potions should they have the sustained power blood magic on. As Merrill is a blood mage, she operates under that lore restriction. You have control over the shape of the characters both in their relationships to Hawke and mechanically. I don't see where there's control taken away, anymore than they did in DAO, though it is harder to manipulate relationships because gifts are limited, other than that I don't see where there's a loss of control for the player visa vi Witcher 2.

[Ariella]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Ariella wrote...

DL. I may not agree with you, but I do tend to respect you. I hope the middle ground between what did work in Da2 and what did work in DAO can be combined with some new tricks in DA3. Good criticism will get that, but until recently the good criticism was being drown out by noise coming from other corners.

Ditto I have nothing against you personally. I would adivse taking down those barriers between the two groups as those who don't wish to add anything and just attack Bioware or the developers, even the title for the pure sake of hate and revenge they tend to go away on their own and will segregate themselves without the need of others doing it for them.

I hope DA3 will appeal to me and I will watch closely to what is developed and created and fingers crossed it may appeal to all of us. But make no mistake I view DA2 as a dissapointment and big let down, something that had potential (mage vs templar war) and was squandered rushed and when all the parts were put together it did not create a great title for me or masterpiece.

Now I already covered everything I dislike about the game DA2 in my review and other threads so I'm only here now to chat on some occassions; about a series I bought and have some interest in seeing it's future developments.

Sounds good to me, and if you're ever in Chicago PM me, I know a place were the conversation can be over good food and drink

[Dave of Canada]

Serpieri Nei wrote...

So Lelianna, Sten, Oghren, Wynne, Shale, Allistar, and Zevran weren't fleshed out?

Shale has a unique look, so I don't see why you brought her up.

And I didn't say it was required to be fleshed out, I said it helps? Video games are a visual medium, seeing something can represent a lot without the characters ever saying a word.

[highcastle]

Serpieri Nei wrote...
Care to point out the spirit that I talked to in Origins/DA2 to gain access to healing? Oh wait in origins it was bought in the Wonders of Thedas shop in Denerim or from Levi after  you complete Warden's Quest. You can also gain access to unique blood abilities drinking from a vile. You are correct how Blood Magic is learned, but you still haven't shown why Merril or why Hawke is not capable of using both. What demon offer are you referring too in DA2, all I had to unlock Blood magic was reach the appropriate level to specialize in it.

Already showed how spirit healing didn't come from a spirit. And how demons and spirits interact has nothing to do with the use of blood magic or spirit healing. Also let’s not forget that a certain blood mage had an apprentice and was willing to teach him.

Is that why in Origins I was able to have Leliana use daggers instead of that Bow which she felt strongly about? Or how I can make Sten use a different weapon then the one he was searching for?

This is the last time I'll respond to this, as it's clear you're just not going to agree. But I suggest you talk to Wynne and read up on the lore surrounding spirit healers. Or perhaps just look at the name. Spirit healer. That you yourself do not meet with a spirit is irrelevent. Gameplay and story segregation. Fill in the blanks, use your imagination.

I for one am the type of player who prefers consistency in characterization and story. So I was the person who had Sten using his crappy sword during the endgame, who kept Morrigan in her custom robes. These things seemed important, seemed meaningful. I didn't want to change them when it seemed as though I shouldn't. That BioWare went and made them more meaningful and took away options to change things when it didn't make sense is fine with me.

Furthermore, as I said in an earlier tangentally related post, custom outfits allow characters to have unique body models without tons of work being done to make sure they can wear every scrap of clothing you find (which is not feasible from a development point). I pointed out Anders before. His arms are thinner, his build slightly slimmer than normal human males. He looks a tad underfed, but mostly he just looks normal. He looks like the Everyman, which make his eventual actions more jarring. I don't think the effect would be as profound if he were in full plate or dripping in blood because he was a maleficar. The point of his character was not to turn to blood magic. He did something arguably great/terrible without turning to the one thing templars fear most about mages. That's. The. Point. Teaching him blood magic, changing his look, it would undercut the purpose of his character.

But whatever. It seems to me you're not interested in more than superficial choices. Fine. I care about consistency in the lore and characters. As such, I support restrictions where it's in keeping with such things. You don't have to (what did I say before about opinions?). But I'm not going to debate something or keep providing evidence when you don't want to hear it. Blood magic comes from demons. Spirit healing from spirits. Read the codex, talk to the characters, read the wiki. This part's not up for debate, so I'm out.

[Dragoonlordz]

Ariella wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Ariella wrote...

DL. I may not agree with you, but I do tend to respect you. I hope the middle ground between what did work in Da2 and what did work in DAO can be combined with some new tricks in DA3. Good criticism will get that, but until recently the good criticism was being drown out by noise coming from other corners.

Ditto I have nothing against you personally. I would adivse taking down those barriers between the two groups as those who don't wish to add anything and just attack Bioware or the developers, even the title for the pure sake of hate and revenge they tend to go away on their own and will segregate themselves without the need of others doing it for them.

I hope DA3 will appeal to me and I will watch closely to what is developed and created and fingers crossed it may appeal to all of us. But make no mistake I view DA2 as a dissapointment and big let down, something that had potential (mage vs templar war) and was squandered rushed and when all the parts were put together it did not create a great title for me or masterpiece.

Now I already covered everything I dislike about the game DA2 in my review and other threads so I'm only here now to chat on some occassions; about a series I bought and have some interest in seeing it's future developments.

Sounds good to me, and if you're ever in Chicago PM me, I know a place were the conversation can be over good food and drink

Hehe very tempting, but unless you live in Wales, UK ~I can't see that happening.

Now I'm thirsty... So logging off getting drink and hitting the snuggle blanket as it's 5:25am here.

[chunkyman]

It's good to now the devs listen to criticism from fans. I'm glad some of the bigger issues will be addressed, but what about some of the little things? One of the things I missed the most from DA:O are the item descriptions. They were a little detail that contributed significantly to making the world seem "alive".

[What?]

Aw. I guess we can rule out The Warden returning as a protagonist (despite the fact it was already a ridiculously slim possibility) based on Laidlaw's comment about the VO's being perpetuated. Oh well. Kudos, Laidlaw, for the polite post; it took steely nerve, I'm sure, to come back to this mess. That said, however, I'll maintain my reservations until more information is made available about possible DLC and DA3. I only hope the post was sincere, and that Bioware really is taking good feedback into careful consideration.

[FieryDove]

Ariella wrote...

But going back to the original original reason I posted, I don't see where Bioware lied (ie was maliciously misleading) or used half truths. I do believe expectations were very high, and the game disappointed some, but there's a world of different between not completely hitting the bar with a fan base and lying.

You never watched all the David Silverman interviews did you?

And no I have never said Bio is lying or anyone needs to be fired. I have said the person who thought melee FF was a good idea along with the person who veto'ed David numbers on dialogue selections should be spanked but that is the limit of my hostility...which is mostly nil as in joke.

To Mike, glad someone is considering feedback. DA2 was a good game. Some things I thought were done well, some things not very well at all. (imho) I hope DA3 beats DAO + DA2. That would be something.

For the people saying telling companions what armor/weapon styles to use is not realistic why not? Its a GAME. You already tell them move to this spot, cast FB there, attack that, wear this shiny ring, why not put on this plate armor or use a bow for this fight because melee will kill you? /boggle

[Yuqi]

This is probably a really trivial issue,but it is one i found frustrating. I like the conversation history in DAO,because when your interrupted,or dont quite catch what was said,you could go to the history. Is there any chance of that feature coming back,mike?

[Serpieri Nei]

highcastle wrote...

Serpieri Nei wrote...
Care to point out the spirit that I talked to in Origins/DA2 to gain access to healing? Oh wait in origins it was bought in the Wonders of Thedas shop in Denerim or from Levi after  you complete Warden's Quest. You can also gain access to unique blood abilities drinking from a vile. You are correct how Blood Magic is learned, but you still haven't shown why Merril or why Hawke is not capable of using both. What demon offer are you referring too in DA2, all I had to unlock Blood magic was reach the appropriate level to specialize in it.

Already showed how spirit healing didn't come from a spirit. And how demons and spirits interact has nothing to do with the use of blood magic or spirit healing. Also let’s not forget that a certain blood mage had an apprentice and was willing to teach him.

Is that why in Origins I was able to have Leliana use daggers instead of that Bow which she felt strongly about? Or how I can make Sten use a different weapon then the one he was searching for?

This is the last time I'll respond to this, as it's clear you're just not going to agree. But I suggest you talk to Wynne and read up on the lore surrounding spirit healers. Or perhaps just look at the name. Spirit healer. That you yourself do not meet with a spirit is irrelevent. Gameplay and story segregation. Fill in the blanks, use your imagination.

I for one am the type of player who prefers consistency in characterization and story. So I was the person who had Sten using his crappy sword during the endgame, who kept Morrigan in her custom robes. These things seemed important, seemed meaningful. I didn't want to change them when it seemed as though I shouldn't. That BioWare went and made them more meaningful and took away options to change things when it didn't make sense is fine with me.

Furthermore, as I said in an earlier tangentally related post, custom outfits allow characters to have unique body models without tons of work being done to make sure they can wear every scrap of clothing you find (which is not feasible from a development point). I pointed out Anders before. His arms are thinner, his build slightly slimmer than normal human males. He looks a tad underfed, but mostly he just looks normal. He looks like the Everyman, which make his eventual actions more jarring. I don't think the effect would be as profound if he were in full plate or dripping in blood because he was a maleficar. The point of his character was not to turn to blood magic. He did something arguably great/terrible without turning to the one thing templars fear most about mages. That's. The. Point. Teaching him blood magic, changing his look, it would undercut the purpose of his character.

But whatever. It seems to me you're not interested in more than superficial choices. Fine. I care about consistency in the lore and characters. As such, I support restrictions where it's in keeping with such things. You don't have to (what did I say before about opinions?). But I'm not going to debate something or keep providing evidence when you don't want to hear it. Blood magic comes from demons. Spirit healing from spirits. Read the codex, talk to the characters, read the wiki. This part's not up for debate, so I'm out.

You missed my edit - you were partially correct on Blood magic and I was wrong. Below is the info on blood magic. I understand your not able to disprove how spirit healing is learned and not sure why you are when everyone knows it was learned in the game from a book and not a spirit.

You choose not to change them, the Companions had no choice you the player did.

I don't think you truly understand Ander's character, his crime was far greater then just speaking to a Demon about Blood Magic.

You don't care for consistency  becuase you are ignoring the facts in front of you. And instead decidied to no longer back your stance.

Blood mage is one of the mage specializations in Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age: Origins - 
Awakening. A blood mage is a mage  who employs dark rites, originally taught to mortals by demons, in order to access more powerful magic. A blood  mage must be willing to sacrifice his/her own life force or that of others in  order to wield this power. 


edit - more on blood magic


Codex text
Foul and corrupt are you
Who have taken My gift
And turned it against My children.
--Transfigurations[/i] 18:10.

The ancient Tevinters did not originally consider blood magic a school of its own. Rather, they saw it as a means to achieve greater power in any school of magic. The name, of course, refers to the fact that magic of this type uses life, specifically in the form of blood, instead of mana. It was common practice, at one time, for a magister to keep a number of slaves on hand so that, should he undertake the working of a spell that was physically beyond his abilities, he could use the blood of his slaves to bolster the casting.

Over time, however, the Imperium discovered types of spells that could only be worked by blood. Although lyrium will allow a mage to send his conscious mind into the Fade, blood would allow him to find the sleeping minds of others, view their dreams, and even influence or dominate their thoughts. Just as treacherous, blood magic allows the Veil to be opened completely so that demons may physically pass through it into our world.

Blood Magic in Thedas 

Blood magic was the first form of magic in Thedas. According to legend, it was taught to Archon Thalsian, founder of theTevinter Imperium, by Dumat, the Old God of Silence. Historians argue on this point, suggesting the Imperium's mages may have learned it from the elves of Arlathan. Whatever its origin, blood magic was used by the magisters of the Tevinter Imperium to rule over the whole of Thedas. According to the Chantry, its reckless use eventually led to the blackening of the Golden City, the creation of the darkspawn, and the first Blight.

Modifié par Serpieri Nei, 27 mai 2011 - 05:18 .

[Serpieri Nei]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Serpieri Nei wrote...

So Lelianna, Sten, Oghren, Wynne, Shale, Allistar, and Zevran weren't fleshed out?

Shale has a unique look, so I don't see why you brought her up.

And I didn't say it was required to be fleshed out, I said it helps? Video games are a visual medium, seeing something can represent a lot without the characters ever saying a word.

You can change Shale's look - color of the crystals. You are right video games are a visual medium and they should not be locked to a single style.

[Mike Laidlaw]

FieryDove wrote...
And no I have never said Bio is lying or anyone needs to be fired. I have said the person who thought melee FF was a good idea along with the person who veto'ed David numbers on dialogue selections should be spanked but that is the limit of my hostility...which is mostly nil as in joke.

Hey, guess what! Melee friendly fire on warrior basic attacks is gone in the next patch. Also, PC players can use 1-6 to select dialog. Just start at upper right and count clockwise, if you prefer that.

So...that's something.

[lobi]

Like Sten said, "We'll see".

[Firky]

No chance of a higher view camera, I suppose? (I think that remains the only thing that I really missed from Origins.)

PS. Also - what? "Melee friendly fire on warrior basic attacks is gone in the next patch." Uh oh. I'd gotten used to that. (And I quite liked it.)

Modifié par Firky, 27 mai 2011 - 04:42 .

[FieryDove]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

FieryDove wrote...
And no I have never said Bio is lying or anyone needs to be fired. I have said the person who thought melee FF was a good idea along with the person who veto'ed David numbers on dialogue selections should be spanked but that is the limit of my hostility...which is mostly nil as in joke.

Hey, guess what! Melee friendly fire on warrior basic attacks is gone in the next patch. Also, PC players can use 1-6 to select dialog. Just start at upper right and count clockwise, if you prefer that.

So...that's something.

+100,001 approval points

You just surpassed David G, congrats.

[LyndseyCousland]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...
One thing I will say is the streamlining has to stop and stop now, if you streamline anymore with the franchise, your going to streamline it out of existance.

I'm assuming you're not asking us to bring back fatigue, right? Because I really can't get behind a system that demands you be incredibly strong to wear a suit of armor and then still makes you use any of your talents because it's so heavy. That's just not cricket.

I'd actually not mind seeing fatigue back. It makes sense that wearing heavier armour might encroach upon how fast you can move and all that jazz. Personally I'd like some more realism along with my darkspawn and dragons, instead of this weird ability to jump twice as high as my rogue before exploding an enemy with my blades. I suppose I'm in a minority.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Firky wrote...

No chance of a higher view camera, I suppose? (I think that remains the only thing that I really missed from Origins.)

PS. Also - what? "Melee friendly fire on warrior basic attacks is gone in the next patch." Uh oh. I'd gotten used to that. (And I quite liked it.)

The devs told that it was too much work to make the environments look good from a top view and that it limited their creative efforts. To me it sounds like cost reduction.

[Niniva]

Very glad you came out and said this.

Very.

Niniva Approves + 12