1373 réponses à ce sujet

[Negative City]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Well, I can understand from the POV of having the end of DA2 provide for a different world state to go with different stories. That definitely has potential- yet, the aftermath of Origins had just as much potential too, since we had only seen a sliver of Thedas.

A sliver of a relatively peaceful Thedas. It was time to kick over the sandcastle and make the series about more than just the wardens and darkspawn.

The question I have is whether Mike thinks gameplay and/or presentation wise, DA2 provides more "potential" going forward?

Sure do. There's lots of refinement to do, and some missteps that we need to address, but I think that there are a number of things DAII did right, or, possibly, almost right. Player VO, rivalry, and the responsiveness of combat all fall into that category for me (so, no, we won't be going back to a silent protagonist, for instance). That said, I think we could do all three of those things better. Honestly, if you ever run into a game dev who doesn't think they could do something better with some iteration, they have either lost touch of the crazy rate of progress in this medium, or they're lying.

If I had to sum up my thoughts on the subject, it would mirror a sentiment I've seen expressed many times here and elsewhere: the best parts of DAO and DAII together would make for an excellent game. Sadly, there's always some disagreement on the "best" parts, but in the end I think most people agree that the high-level items I included in my initial post are things we should address. Agreement on the internet!

In the end, though, the proof will be in the pudding. There's lots of folks who have replied and expressed their doubts.

Groovy. I'd rather show you anyway.

I feel I must disagree about the Player VO and the Rivalry system. Having the main protagonist voiced is an excellent addition to most RPGS but i can't help but feel that it doesn't work in  DA2. By the end of DA2 i wanted to throttle the voice actrs for both Female and Male Hawke. Having a voiced protagonist in a game like Final Fantasy or The Tales series works brillaintly because you don't have any affect on events or have to make any decisions. But with all the decisions that you make in the DA series (even the ones that don't have any effect) are made by the player. With the dialogue wheel you kind of removed that ability to be fully aware of the decisions you're making, and the worst bit was when Hawke said something completly the oppoosite of what the player ment to say. With the Origins system there was always a chance that the character you were talking to would take something you sadi differently but that was a risk factor that I enjoyed, Particularly when to get approval with some characters (Sten, Morrigan) you had to be quite tactful with what you sadi. That factor is also removed in DA2 because even though yu might not say what you want to say the friendship/rivalry factor increased as long you chose the good/bad dialogue option. But of course, if more people than not want a voiced protagonist then I will go along with it as majority rules. This is just my opinion of how player VA didn't work in DA2

[Duchessban1]

Thanks Mike for taking the time to reach all of us and let us know what to expect in the future. I loved DA2 I also loved DAO and I will continue to buy anything in the DA series. I have been playing games especially RPGs for over 25 years kind of giving away my age lol. Let's just say I am in my fifties and proud to be a gamer! With that said I am hoping if there is any dlc or expansion that we have a lot more interactions with our companions and LI. Like when they visit my home we actually sit and have a real conversation not just snippets. Or actually have drinks together and a little fun after a long day of fighting not just you ordering a drink for yourself. Also I loved the bantering but it would be nice to be involved in the banter not just listening to it. Sometimes it just seemed a little too quiet. I love a good story and playing DA2 I really felt like I was sort of living it. Especially in the emotion department. Like others are saying though were we kept going to places where they all looked the same really did get a little boring. I really am glad you are keeping the voice in it gave my character more of a personality instead of standing there sometimes expressionless. Thanks again and can't wait to see what you guys have for us next!!

[Firky]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

The devs told that it was too much work to make the environments look good from a top view and that it limited their creative efforts. To me it sounds like cost reduction.

I'm not sure if I recall them saying "too much work." I do recall it being an issue of ceiling/wall collisions? Wanting the player to get close to the action? Etc.

I did actually enjoy being close up, to a point, but I'm a micromanager who turned off all tactics - and they're still all off most of the way through on nightmare. I just would have liked to be able to see the entire party. I'm not overly fussed about eye-candy.

[SilentK]

Love DA2 =) thanks for having a voice and hope to see you on the forum again.

[Michael177]

Welcome back ! (Does that story(dlc) have griffons?!?

[Boiny Bunny]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

FieryDove wrote...
And no I have never said Bio is lying or anyone needs to be fired. I have said the person who thought melee FF was a good idea along with the person who veto'ed David numbers on dialogue selections should be spanked but that is the limit of my hostility...which is mostly nil as in joke.

Hey, guess what! Melee friendly fire on warrior basic attacks is gone in the next patch. Also, PC players can use 1-6 to select dialog. Just start at upper right and count clockwise, if you prefer that.

So...that's something.

Sorry Mike, are you saying that the new patch will change the number key-mappings that are currently in place for dialogue options?  Because the way it currently works is:

4          1
5    2
6           3

(the smiley face is meant to represent the wheel)

[In Exile]

Sidney wrote...
I dislike the "I wanna play dress up" argument just from a "it isn't fun" standpoint but beyond that given the limited number of good armors (espoecially w/o DLC) in DAO most of your party had the same look as everyone else's anyways and it wasn't like each set of armor made a massive difference in terms of who you put it on. The end result of "choice" in DAO and companion armor in DA2 is really not all that different.

I was onboard with you on the dress-up-barbie comments about inventory. Until I played DA2.

There is a particularly strong feeling of progression tied to loot itself. Even if the apperance changes are very minor (i.e. exact same character mesh with a progressive reskin leading up to a final, ultimate ''new'' look) there is still a sense of reward in changing and contrilling the upgrade of armour yourself.

[LyndseyCousland]

Although I do have to approve of not posting if you're not sure you can remain professional. Nice to see that on this sort of forum. Now if only I could do the same.

[Mike Laidlaw]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Sorry Mike, are you saying that the new patch will change the number key-mappings that are currently in place for dialogue options?  Because the way it currently works is:

4          1
5    2
6           3

(the smiley face is meant to represent the wheel)

Oh, no, sorry. That's still how it works, just mis-remembered. (I'm a clicker!)

[In Exile]

Brockololly wrote...
Georg Zoeller said way back that Origins would have been 50% shorter had they used player VO.

DA:O could do with less content, depending on what was cut.

[Rafficus III]

Good response and good on not only you Laidlaw, but the DA:II staff as well. Granted the game did have it's flaws, it was a good game and you achieved what you set out to do: to set it in a different direction and experience. I have high hopes for the third and believe future DLC can ring back in disgruntled fans from the first. I loved Origins so much that I played it to perfection on the PS3 and resold my old copy to buy the Ultimate Edition for the 360 so I could transfer my save files for DA:II. Though there are some bugs for the 360 version of Origins achievement-wise it is a memorable game worthy of many replays, as does it's successor. I know it has been a rough go about these past couple months with the harsh criticisms, but I wish you and your staff the best of luck along with my support.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Firky wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

The devs told that it was too much work to make the environments look good from a top view and that it limited their creative efforts. To me it sounds like cost reduction.

I'm not sure if I recall them saying "too much work." I do recall it being an issue of ceiling/wall collisions? Wanting the player to get close to the action? Etc.

I did actually enjoy being close up, to a point, but I'm a micromanager who turned off all tactics - and they're still all off most of the way through on nightmare. I just would have liked to be able to see the entire party. I'm not overly fussed about eye-candy.

No... The work issue was mentioned. And if you had to sell that ommision, wouldn't you dream up rationalizations to make it believable?

[LyndseyCousland]

In Exile wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
Georg Zoeller said way back that Origins would have been 50% shorter had they used player VO.

DA:O could do with less content, depending on what was cut.

Oh hell no.
I don't know why someone would want to cut down on the length of a game. =/ I mean, the Fade and Deep Roads parts were pretty long and could get boring if you had to replay them a lot but I actually preferred having more hours in the game world.

[Firky]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

No... The work issue was mentioned. And if you had to sell that omission, wouldn't you dream up rationalizations to make it believable?

No.

(And I think these guys are very frank and I take them at their word.)

But, much as I miss the high view for my own playstyle, I do think it's ommission is coherent and consistent with combat's re-design, which I do think is great. (So I guess that answers my own question.)

Modifié par Firky, 27 mai 2011 - 05:14 .

[DragonRageGT]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Derrick1011 wrote...
Look at The Witcher 2. That game shows what the medium is capable of, and indeed what you are capable of accomplishing. Your challenge is to exceed the standards set there.

More story. More choices. More quality art. More personality.

We don't get any points for having more controllable party members, or, say, playable genders?

Don't get me wrong, I think TW2 is great, and I hope it does very well. There's not enough fantasy RPG out there.

Yes, you get many points for party members and playable genders. And would gain much more if you gave us back different races too. That is something that made many of us love BW games! The character selection screen of DA2 is bizzare. Like looking to a 3 clone couples. At least show just one couple and let us decide class later! (I wonder how bad would it be if ME would display 10 male/fem Sheps in the char selection screen... lol) If you need extra an DVD to voice the other playable chars/races, well, check cost/benefit. It might be worthy it. For the players it definitely would be!

Also the camera overview. Origins did a good job with that, didn't it?. Find a way to give it to console players and that should end their complaints, shouldn't it? I remember NWN and the "free camera" console command. It was great.

[Melca36]

In Exile wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
Georg Zoeller said way back that Origins would have been 50% shorter had they used player VO.

DA:O could do with less content, depending on what was cut.

Sorry but you are the minority when it comes to that opinion. Origins was FINE the way it was. DA:2 was too short.

[Dave of Canada]

Serpieri Nei wrote...

You can change Shale's look - color of the crystals.

Recoloring doesn't change her look, her look is still unique to her.

You are right video games are a visual medium and they should not be locked to a single style.

Sorry, I'm going to disagree that looking like everybody else in the game with generic armor, the same animations and no personality to the way they dress is better for the medium.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 27 mai 2011 - 05:19 .

[Esbatty]

Well if DA3 does happen, I'd defintely like to see more of Morrigan and cover more of her part in the story of Thedas. And despite David's reticence regarding "romancing" Flemeth, I'd like to have some more interactions with her in the future.

[Luke Barrett]

LyndseyCousland wrote...

Although I do have to approve of not posting if you're not sure you can remain professional. Nice to see that on this sort of forum. Now if only I could do the same.

The trick is to reread your posts and make sure you're actually contributing something vital to the conversation before hitting that cheeky little 'submit' button, sitting all innocent down there as if it didn't have the power to pour pure hatred or irrational jibber-jabber at it's finger tip.

On a related note I write about 4x more posts than I actually end up posting. Sometimes it's just good to get your opinion out on paper and reread it and then click 'cancel' if only for the catharsis of expressing your opinion. Now, obviously I have a little more stock in being concise and professional than the average forum poster BUT I think the advice is sound for anyone who wants to be taken seriously.

Now, on topic: I'll just reiterate that we always take notice of even the smallest complaints or feedback. I actually PM quite a few active members of the gameplay forums or even canvass general forums just to further flesh out what people really like or dislike in the game and how we can go about improving those facets. A good example is the quick line I saw about flavor text on items in this thread - I've seen this pop up a few times elsewhere and I think it's a valid point which I will *attempt* to escalate through the appropriate channels.

[mesmerizedish]

In Exile wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
Georg Zoeller said way back that Origins would have been 50% shorter had they used player VO.

DA:O could do with less content, depending on what was cut.

I agree. The "collect 10 lyrium potions for the Mages Collective" quest and the like bothered me the most. Every RPG is going to have lame FedEx quests. DAII did it right (from a gameplay perspective*). Find the macguffin first, while doing something else, and then deliver it to the questgiver.




*from a story perspective, there wasn't enough indication as to whom the items should be returned to, which broke the immersion a little bit.

[Boiny Bunny]

With respect to the camera/issues associated with the camera, I feel that the experience of the average PC player could have been improved easily by changing two things (it might actually be possible to still change these two things via a patch - not sure how the code is structured so...)

1) Unlock the camera. If it must stay as zoomed as it does in DA2, so be it, but controlling the characters would still be infinitely easier if there was a toggle option (linked to an easy hotkey naturally) to unlock the camera at any point, so that it wasn't stuck on one of your characters.

2) Unleash the characters. In DA2, even with the 'Hold Position' command on, if you walk one character more than a quite short distance from the others, they will follow even though they are supposed to be holding position. I'm still a little puzzled over the decision to leash all of the characters together in the first place I must admit - I had originally thought this was a bug.

Making these changes would make combat much easier to control and more fun from my perspective, and in theory, without too much effort.

[Dave of Canada]

Filament wrote...

I'm hoping by addressing the issue which Mike implied they are, he means having Morrigan style unique outfits which improve on level up.

Personally, I'd like having the ability to still outfit companions but their look is locked in. So you can use the warrior / mage gear on a Rogue protagonist instead of simply ignoring it / vending it in addition to keeping the unique looks.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 27 mai 2011 - 05:21 .

[Serpieri Nei]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Serpieri Nei wrote...

You can change Shale's look - color of the crystals.

Recoloring doesn't change how somebody looks.

You are right video games are a visual medium and they should not be locked to a single style.

Sorry, I'm going to disagree that looking like everybody else in the game with generic armor, the same animations and no personality to the way they dress is better for the medium.

Color does change how one looks. Just take a look at the countless mods that re-color armor.

Where did i say that everyone needs to look the same with generic armor, I have pointed out many times since the release of origins that Bioware needed to step up and provide better looking armors, especially in the area of robes and leather armor. 

[In Exile]

LyndseyCousland wrote...
Oh hell no.

I don't know why someone would want to cut down on the length of a game. =/ I mean, the Fade and Deep Roads parts were pretty long and could get boring if you had to replay them a lot but I actually preferred having more hours in the game world.

DA:O had a very simple story:

Origin - Ostagar - Collect Army - Endgame

Once you went through Ostagar, you knew the plot.

There were, really, no surprises. You had a bit of endgame stuff with Morrigain and then finding out what the sacrifice of the Wardens was... but all things considered the plot was done developing by the start of the game and then it was a matter of getting to the end.

We could remove 2 of the armies and not really affect the overarching plot at all. I didn't like that in DA:O, and just how I felt about this structure is somethin that DA2 exposed for everyone to see by just removing the central arc from each separate area (the Blight).

DA:O dragged on for me, and in a bad way.

I don't mind a game with lots and lots of content, but it has to be good content, not grinds. The Deep Roads, the caves in the Temple for Andraste's Ashes and the Fade in the Mage Tower along with parts of the Alienage at the endgame all felt like chores for me the first time around.