1373 réponses à ce sujet

[mesmerizedish]

Filament wrote...

I'm hoping by addressing the issue which Mike implied they are, he means having Morrigan style unique outfits which improve on level up.

I hope he means they're going to do what my DAII mod, Diversified Follower Armors*, does, and allow followers to equip anything you find, but spread some armor unique to them throughout the world.




*my shameless self-promotion is especially shameless tonight




[EDIT] YES, top of the page

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 27 mai 2011 - 05:23 .

[erynnar]

In Exile wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
Georg Zoeller said way back that Origins would have been 50% shorter had they used player VO.

DA:O could do with less content, depending on what was cut.

DA:O, LESS content? Okay I am going to do something I try never to do outright on a thread....


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nope, coudln't contain myself, sorry. DAMN! That was funny! Thanks for the laugh...oh, wait. your were serious?


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...BUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH...SNORT....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!


Okay yep, sorry. I try to have a more meaningful dialogue, but that doesn't even get past the laugh test.

If I want less content, there are shooter games I can go play for that. Like Borderlands, which has some sort of a story...sorta. Or hell, I could just go play Peggle. I don't re-play DAO over and over and think it had too much content...nope. Not what I was thinking. Sorry Exile, I think that is the minority of players, and they could happily choose from a multitude of games with "less content."

Pssst...this is all in fun and not being mean to Exile, whose posts I happen to follow. I am being cheeky (mostly).

[In Exile]

Melca36 wrote...

Sorry but you are the minority when it comes to that opinion. Origins was FINE the way it was. DA:2 was too short.

It's my preference. It doesn't matter if I'm the only one that cares for it; I'll advocate for it, and in the end, the designers will either be persuaded by my rationale or not.

I should clarify that I don't just want to remove content like some idiot. I just think that DA:O could have used significant changes to the narrative and presentation (with or without VO) and would sacrifice overall content for that level of execution.

[Esbatty]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
Georg Zoeller said way back that Origins would have been 50% shorter had they used player VO.

DA:O could do with less content, depending on what was cut.

I agree. The "collect 10 lyrium potions for the Mages Collective" quest and the like bothered me the most. Every RPG is going to have lame FedEx quests. DAII did it right (from a gameplay perspective*). Find the macguffin first, while doing something else, and then deliver it to the questgiver.




*from a story perspective, there wasn't enough indication as to whom the items should be returned to, which broke the immersion a little bit.

I always figured Varric's rumor mongering or other party members would be the ones to tell you "Oh thats so-and-so's Urn, might want to swing by the Chantry later after we clean all this Slaver off us."

[mesmerizedish]

Esbatty wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I agree. The "collect 10 lyrium potions for the Mages Collective" quest and the like bothered me the most. Every RPG is going to have lame FedEx quests. DAII did it right (from a gameplay perspective*). Find the macguffin first, while doing something else, and then deliver it to the questgiver.




*from a story perspective, there wasn't enough indication as to whom the items should be returned to, which broke the immersion a little bit.

I always figured Varric's rumor mongering or other party members would be the ones to tell you "Oh thats so-and-so's Urn, might want to swing by the Chantry later after we clean all this Slaver off us."

Then I should hear that. It doesn't need to be specific... they can re-use lines like the do for the turn-ins. Just have some companion (or Hawke herself) say something like "I think I know someone who'd pay for that." That'd be great.

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 27 mai 2011 - 05:28 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Firky wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

No... The work issue was mentioned. And if you had to sell that omission, wouldn't you dream up rationalizations to make it believable?

No.

(And I think these guys are very frank and I take them at their word.)

But, much as I miss the high view for my own playstyle, I do think it's ommission is coherent and consistent with combat's re-design, which I do think is great. (So I guess that answers my own question.)

There wasn't such an issue for DA:O. It worked fine and there were no funny collisions or whatever reasons you mentioned there. DA:O had some features with the PC in mind. That's great and I like that as a PC gamer. All of that was thrown overboard in DA2 for the simple reason that the PC was selling less. The ommision of the tactical camera didn't surprise me at all and got the boot. I have enough of those silly console ports.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 27 mai 2011 - 05:28 .

[Esbatty]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Esbatty wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I agree. The "collect 10 lyrium potions for the Mages Collective" quest and the like bothered me the most. Every RPG is going to have lame FedEx quests. DAII did it right (from a gameplay perspective*). Find the macguffin first, while doing something else, and then deliver it to the questgiver.




*from a story perspective, there wasn't enough indication as to whom the items should be returned to, which broke the immersion a little bit.

I always figured Varric's rumor mongering or other party members would be the ones to tell you "Oh thats so-and-so's Urn, might want to swing by the Chantry later after we clean all this Slaver off us."

Then I should hear that. It doesn't need to be specific... they can re-use lines like the do for the turn-ins. Just have some companion (or Hawke herself) say something like "I think I know someone who'd pay for that." That'd be great.

Sebastian: I know someone who'd love to get that back.
Merrill: Can we - keep it?
Hawke: Its an URN!
Merrill: We can put candy in it.
Sebastian: *lip trembles, tears*

[Maria Caliban]

It's a pleasure to see you again Mike. I'm sorry that the personal attacks got to you (and sorry that people feel justified personally attacking you) and agree that taking a sabbatical from the forum was probably the right idea.

Hope to see you posting frequently again. You're very enthusiastic about your work and it shows.

[In Exile]

erynnar wrote...
If I want less content, there are shooter games I can go play for that. Like Borderlands, which has some sort of a story...sorta. Or hell, I could just go play Peggle. I don't re-play DAO over and over and think it had too much content...nope. Not what I was thinking. Sorry Exile, I think that is the minority of players, and they could happily choose from a multitude of games with "less content."

Pssst...this is all in fun and not being mean to Exile, whose posts I happen to follow. I am being cheeky (mostly).

I couldn't have chosen poorer words. I meant to say less content with respect to length, but not less content overall. I'm not an idiot - I don't want to pay more for less.

But I would glady give up the entire Ashes questline if it meant lots more unique content for each Origin (for example).

[Serpieri Nei]

erynnar wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
Georg Zoeller said way back that Origins would have been 50% shorter had they used player VO.

DA:O could do with less content, depending on what was cut.

DA:O, LESS content? Okay I am going to do something I try never to do outright on a thread....


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nope, coudln't contain myself, sorry. DAMN! That was funny! Thanks for the laugh...oh, wait. your were serious?


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...BUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH...SNORT....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!


Okay yep, sorry. I try to have a more meaningful dialogue, but that doesn't even get past the laugh test.

If I want less content, there are shooter games I can go play for that. Like Borderlands, which has some sort of a story...sorta. Or hell, I could just go play Peggle. I don't re-play DAO over and over and think it had too much content...nope. Not what I was thinking. Sorry Exile, I think that is the minority of players, and they could happily choose from a multitude of games with "less content."

Pssst...this is all in fun and not being mean to Exile, whose posts I happen to follow. I am being cheeky (mostly).

When I look for a game, I don't buy ones with less content that cost more....

Guess, thats why I got a refund on DA2.

Kudos to Amazon.

But I did re-buy the game for 9.99 from EB Games.

[Melca36]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
Georg Zoeller said way back that Origins would have been 50% shorter had they used player VO.

DA:O could do with less content, depending on what was cut.

I agree. The "collect 10 lyrium potions for the Mages Collective" quest and the like bothered me the most. Every RPG is going to have lame FedEx quests. DAII did it right (from a gameplay perspective*). Find the macguffin first, while doing something else, and then deliver it to the questgiver.




*from a story perspective, there wasn't enough indication as to whom the items should be returned to, which broke the immersion a little bit.

You think finding someones toe or a dead body has depth?

At least there was a reason to do the Blackstone Irregular quests. And we had to make a decision for the final one.

Those quests need more meaning.  It did not make sense for Hawke to know who to bring those items too instantly! 

[mesmerizedish]

Melca36 wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I agree. The "collect 10 lyrium potions for the Mages Collective" quest and the like bothered me the most. Every RPG is going to have lame FedEx quests. DAII did it right (from a gameplay perspective*). Find the macguffin first, while doing something else, and then deliver it to the questgiver.




*from a story perspective, there wasn't enough indication as to whom the items should be returned to, which broke the immersion a little bit.

You think finding someones toe or a dead body has depth?

At least there was a reason to do the Blackstone Irregular quests. And we had to make a decision for the final one.

Those quests need more meaning.  It did not make sense for Hawke to know who to bring those items too instantly! 

I must have imagined that I typed what I've bolded and underlined.

Anyway, I never said that those quests had depth. I said going about it backwards is better than having to seek out the macguffin.

[In Exile]

Melca36 wrote...
You think finding someones toe or a dead body has depth?

At least there was a reason to do the Blackstone Irregular quests. And we had to make a decision for the final one.

Those quests need more meaning.  It did not make sense for Hawke to know who to bring those items too instantly! 

You had to slog through a lot of garbage to get one choice. I'd rather the entire questline get scrapped for just the endquest, which has the player meaningfully interact and RP, if you can't condense that content into one real quest (with dialogue and NPCs).

[Melca36]

In Exile wrote...

LyndseyCousland wrote...
Oh hell no.

I don't know why someone would want to cut down on the length of a game. =/ I mean, the Fade and Deep Roads parts were pretty long and could get boring if you had to replay them a lot but I actually preferred having more hours in the game world.

DA:O had a very simple story:

Origin - Ostagar - Collect Army - Endgame

Once you went through Ostagar, you knew the plot.

There were, really, no surprises. You had a bit of endgame stuff with Morrigain and then finding out what the sacrifice of the Wardens was... but all things considered the plot was done developing by the start of the game and then it was a matter of getting to the end.

We could remove 2 of the armies and not really affect the overarching plot at all. I didn't like that in DA:O, and just how I felt about this structure is somethin that DA2 exposed for everyone to see by just removing the central arc from each separate area (the Blight).

DA:O dragged on for me, and in a bad way.

I don't mind a game with lots and lots of content, but it has to be good content, not grinds. The Deep Roads, the caves in the Temple for Andraste's Ashes and the Fade in the Mage Tower along with parts of the Alienage at the endgame all felt like chores for me the first time around.

It took me 30 minutes to the Dark Roads in DA:2 and 20 minutes to the FADE.

There needs to be a reasonable compromise for the fans that don't want things handed to them.

[Boiny Bunny]

Or an approach could be taken where followers can wear any armour appropriate to their class, and they have (say) 5 different takes on their unique appearance based on these different levels of armour (say 4 looks for very light, light, medium, heavy, and 1 last look for their 'ultimate' armour, if such a thing exists).

[Melca36]

In Exile wrote...

Melca36 wrote...
You think finding someones toe or a dead body has depth?

At least there was a reason to do the Blackstone Irregular quests. And we had to make a decision for the final one.

Those quests need more meaning.  It did not make sense for Hawke to know who to bring those items too instantly! 

You had to slog through a lot of garbage to get one choice. I'd rather the entire questline get scrapped for just the endquest, which has the player meaningfully interact and RP, if you can't condense that content into one real quest (with dialogue and NPCs).

Guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I felt like delivery someones toe was an insult to my intelligence as a gamer. I  am not interested in instant gratifcation. I don't like things easily handed to me when I game.

There needs to be a fair compromise that appeals to ALL fans.

[JakePT]

I'm someone who, in principle, likes the changes made in DA2. I much prefer how the skills/attributes work, I like the voiced protagonist and the combat does feel better for the most part, but the part that offends me most about DA2 is just how sloppy it was.

Things like the continuity bugs, level rehashing, horrifically dated visuals and overall sloppiness of the pacing (Act 1 was too long, Act 3 was incredibly haphazard) are what bother me. The blatantly obvious reason for these problems are the fact that the game was rushed for commercial reasons.

While Mike coming out and letting us know he's listening is absolutely welcome, I am still bothered by the fact that no one will admit to why the issues existed. While commercial motives and pressure from higher-ups is certainly not desirable, failing to admit to these causes simply gives the appearance that the game's problems are due to plain old incompetence.

Unless the team admits that such a short development time is responsible, why would fans trust the team to deliver an amazing game in the future, even with a longer development time (assuming they get one)?

This general dishonesty is problematic to me. A perfect example is when Witch Hunt was released and someone asked why it was the last piece of DLC when it had previously been promised that DLC would continue flowing for much longer. David Gaider had the audacity to say that it was because the "opportunity" to make Dragon Age II had come up. Nonsense! Now it's perfectly clear that it had nothing to do with an 'opportunity', but due to the fact that some higher-up had demanded a new Dragon Age game in Q1 2011 and everyone had to rush to get that done. Not only did this affect DA2's quality, but resulted in one of the most pathetic excuses for DLC since Horse Armour.

Another example is the minor controversy when people discovered the game was on a single DVD and only required 7GB of disk space. Someone at BioWare tried to chalk it up to 'optimisation'. Obviously now we know that it's just because there is barely any content in the game! While Gaider was arguably playing fast and loose with the truth, this was bordering on a flat out lie.

We know you're listening, we know you're aware of the issues the game had, all I want is for you to be more upfront with us. Otherwise, how can we trust you in the future to make a great game when all you've given us regarding Dragon Age 2 is "Whoops!".

Modifié par JakePT, 27 mai 2011 - 05:41 .

[In Exile]

Melca36 wrote...

It took me 30 minutes to the Dark Roads in DA:2 and 20 minutes to the FADE.

There needs to be a reasonable compromise for the fans that don't want things handed to them.

I don't want anything handed to me.

I just want the content not to suck if I have to pay money for it. And if the game is brilliant and one of the best of its generation, I don't want to have to suffer through low value portions to get to excellent content.

Look at TW1 to TW2 in terms of monster quests. TW2 has a lot less content insofar as the sheer # of quests is concerned. But the quests are much better in terms of what it takes for Geralt to prepare as a Witcher. It's more fun to play, it makes you feel as if you're realling hunting monsters but there's less of it overall as a drawback.

[In Exile]

Melca36 wrote...

Guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I felt like delivery someones toe was an insult to my intelligence as a gamer. I  am not interested in instant gratifcation. I don't like things easily handed to me when I game.

There needs to be a fair compromise that appeals to ALL fans.

I don't understand what you're talking about. Where did I say anything about instant gratification?

The questline in DA2 sucked. It was even worse than the Chanter board DA:O quests. Why would you think I'd defend that sort of garbage?

Having great quests from the start has nothing to do with gratification and everything to do with getting valuable content worth the $$ we paid in the first place.

[Luke Barrett]

Let's try not to get too far off track here. Perhaps you should make a separate thread along the lines of 'less is more' to further discuss the merits of each of your opinions on the matter.

[Mike Laidlaw]

JakePT wrote...
We know you're listening, we know you're aware of the issues the game had, all I want is for you to be more upfront with us. Otherwise, how can we trust you in the future to make a great game when all you've given us regarding Dragon Age 2 is "Whoops!".

There are few commercial ventures that can afford to be completely transparent, and this is no exception. If not hearing a detailed post-mortem for DAII is going to be a game breaker for your trust, that is unfortunate, but not something I would expect rectified.

Sorry.

[In Exile]

On a more general note, I have to say that DA2 was a dissapointment for me.

Like Jake, I felt that the principle of design behind DA2 was a step foward. In particular, I thought that the idea that a PC with a family strongly tied to a reactive plot, centered on political squbbles and not defeating an ancinet evil, where you could choose how someone behind a legendary figure who would shape the world over seven years, would be high quality and areplayable game.

Instead, we had nothing of the sort. DA2 was static. Hawke was powerless. There was one way to become champion. The family, in the end, was relegated to a minor role. Being a mage, in a plot where the mage & templar conflict was central, had only a cosmetic effect.

Aside from the hopping, I liked combat in DA2. I am, overall, a fan of PC VO.

But the strongest feature of DA2 in marketing was not even a feature of the game.

Modifié par In Exile, 27 mai 2011 - 05:50 .