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[Mike Laidlaw]

Hey guys and gals,

As some of you have noted, I have been absent from these forums for a time, and my apologies for going dark, but I did not feel prepared to deal with some of the more personal attacks in a professional manner. And as a rule if I don't feel like I'm going to be professional, I don't post. You guys deserve better than that.

Now, while I haven't been posting, we have been listening. Several folks have been active on the forums and moderating the more extreme discussions, and more of us have been collecting your feedback, concerns, criticisms and the parts you enjoyed of DA II. This feedback is invaluable to us, and so I wanted to take a moment and say thank you.

I’d like to take this opportunity to address some lingering concerns and clear the air somewhat.

Following the launch of DA II, I did some interviews and some of you interpreted my statements to mean I was blind to the concerns that have been voiced repeatedly on these forums. That was never my intent, nor the message I wanted to convey.

I am absolutely aware of the concerns voiced here. Issues like level re-use, the implementation of wave combat, concerns about the narrative and significance of choice and so on have all been not only noted, but examined,
inspected and even aided me (and many, many others on the team) in formulating future plans. Further, I'm not only aware of the concerns, but I agree that there are aspects of DA II that not only can but must be improved in future installments. And that is precisely our intent.

Finally, let me conclude by saying that while we are all aware of your concerns, I am very proud of what the team accomplished with Dragon Age II. I know many are advocating a "it wasn't broke, why did you try to fix it?" stance, and I absolutely understand why. From my perspective, as someone looking to the future and the DA franchise, I think that DA II moved us into a space that has more potential.

A larger potential audience? Sure, who wouldn’t want more players diving into the experience of playing an RPG? More importantly, though, I believe that there's also more potential for rich stories, for deeper RPG mechanics, for more choice, and for something even more epic to come. The story events of DA II have fundamentally altered the political and power landscape of Thedas, in a way that's open to intrigue, drama and sweeping conflict in the
future, and evolves a world that, while still very much involving the Grey Wardens and Darkspawn, is about more than just that one struggle.

Hawke's story was a departure from the usual tale, and in crafting it and the game around it we learned a lot. Some from what worked, but even more from what didn't. Such is always the way. I hope that in the future we'll be able to
discuss how we're addressing your concerns and even solicit feedback from you on future plans in the process, but for now, I hope a simple thank you will suffice.

In the mean time, though, I stumbled across a few images I thought I might share with you folks. After all, there’s been a lot of requests to explore areas outside of Kirkwall, and I agree that seeing some more of the
Free Marches would be cool.






Also, there seem to be rather a lot of….are those griffins?
I think they might be!

Modifié par Mike Laidlaw, 26 mai 2011 - 10:30 .

[Mike Laidlaw]

Filament wrote...

Man, don't get my hopes up with this griffon talk if there aren't actually going to be griffons in it.

I can promise only statues at this point, alas. But they are pretty big statues, so that's something.

[Mike Laidlaw]

Brockololly wrote...

Well, I can understand from the POV of having the end of DA2 provide for a different world state to go with different stories. That definitely has potential- yet, the aftermath of Origins had just as much potential too, since we had only seen a sliver of Thedas.

A sliver of a relatively peaceful Thedas. It was time to kick over the sandcastle and make the series about more than just the wardens and darkspawn.

The question I have is whether Mike thinks gameplay and/or presentation wise, DA2 provides more "potential" going forward?

Sure do. There's lots of refinement to do, and some missteps that we need to address, but I think that there are a number of things DAII did right, or, possibly, almost right. Player VO, rivalry, and the responsiveness of combat all fall into that category for me (so, no, we won't be going back to a silent protagonist, for instance). That said, I think we could do all three of those things better. Honestly, if you ever run into a game dev who doesn't think they could do something better with some iteration, they have either lost touch of the crazy rate of progress in this medium, or they're lying.

If I had to sum up my thoughts on the subject, it would mirror a sentiment I've seen expressed many times here and elsewhere: the best parts of DAO and DAII together would make for an excellent game. Sadly, there's always some disagreement on the "best" parts, but in the end I think most people agree that the high-level items I included in my initial post are things we should address. Agreement on the internet!

In the end, though, the proof will be in the pudding. There's lots of folks who have replied and expressed their doubts.

Groovy. I'd rather show you anyway.

[Mike Laidlaw]

Dragoonlordz wrote...
One thing I will say is the streamlining has to stop and stop now, if you streamline anymore with the franchise, your going to streamline it out of existance.

I'm assuming you're not asking us to bring back fatigue, right? Because I really can't get behind a system that demands you be incredibly strong to wear a suit of armor and then still makes you use any of your talents because it's so heavy. That's just not cricket.

This is something I would like to get out right now, actually: I think a lot of people have drawn a line between DA:O and DA II's mechanics and combat encounters, and then extended that line into the future and decided that later installments of DA will literally be a title screen, you press space bar, a fanfare plays and then credits roll. But, with apologies to Jonathan Coulton, two points of data do not make a beautiful line.

The game is easier on normal than DA:O was, yes (some folks would say that was merciful), and I think we can do a lot of refinement in terms of how we construct our encounters (which is a very different thing from the "combat" itself), but in terms of pulling out what I saw as relatively needless complexity, I think we're good.

In fact, I think we're due to put some back in. I suspect lots of folks will agree.

We'll talk about that more in the future, though.

[Mike Laidlaw]

Derrick1011 wrote...
Look at The Witcher 2. That game shows what the medium is capable of, and indeed what you are capable of accomplishing. Your challenge is to exceed the standards set there.

More story. More choices. More quality art. More personality.

We don't get any points for having more controllable party members, or, say, playable genders?

Don't get me wrong, I think TW2 is great, and I hope it does very well. There's not enough fantasy RPG out there.

[Mike Laidlaw]

MassFrost wrote...

Just out of curiosity.. Any chance in future DA titles to get an option to turn off enemies exploding when you tap them with your weapon? It's a minor complaint, I know. Was just one of those things that managed to irritate the hell out of me in getting used to the new combat system.

Could, yes. Though I am clear to leak that in the next patch enemies will explode less. We tracked down a bug that was causing the "should_gib" state to fire more than we expected. They'll still explode if you land a pretty epic hit, but not after lovetaps.

[Mike Laidlaw]

Serpieri Nei wrote...

Why would you get points for controllable party members when you have done quite a lot to take that control away from the player?

Is this an armor thing? It sounds like an armor thing. If so, I hear ya!

[Mike Laidlaw]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

A prime example is not fatigue though such systems can fall into that catagory, I mean't as example such things as customisation (companions and protagonist), limiting or reduction with regard to the aspect of re-using maps to extreme's (TW2 all pretty unique areas which has a positive affect on replays and Skyrim another one where they are actually hiring many more map creators to make as many dungeons as possible unique in appearance and design). Lowering the amount of interactions due to using VO and relying only on banter to make up for it, banter that does not include the protagonist who often felt like a third wheel which was neither needed or desired it would seem from his own companions to have input on whatever talked about in that banter. The shrinking of each act to make up for lack of timeframe where it had act one having the most quests (inlcuding rumour type quests not available after act one, a whole type of quests cut out of following acts), act two being 2/3rds the size quest wise of act one and lastly act three literally a few hours long in total with less than half the quests of act two.

These are just some examples off the top of my head. Not everything relating to concept of streamlining or removal, cutting out or reduction revolves around combat and statistics. You shouldn't look down on Serpieri Nei's response which is how it came across, it was valid and concerns both customisation and also ~interactions.

Huh. I had never drawn the equation that "streamlining" was being lumped in with "amount of content." The two are very different things in my head. I tend to look at streamlining as mechanical or tied to the user-experience. Thanks for the clarification.

[Mike Laidlaw]

KingDan97 wrote...

Would you mind addressing the only glaring complaint not in the big four I had with DAII, the shortage of named items. It was so tedious running though 20 "rings" instead of the one "ring of Vitality" I was saving for a tank

Very good point, and one I agree with.

[John Epler]

Alright, folks. Let's try to bring this off Yet Another Thread About The Witcher 2. It's fine to mention it as a comparable, but I'd rather not have another thread hijacked by debating its merits.

[John Epler]

devSin wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Alright, folks. Let's try to bring this off Yet Another Thread About The Witcher 2. It's fine to mention it as a comparable, but I'd rather not have another thread hijacked by debating its merits.

I hope there's like a whole mess of posts you deleted or something. ;-)

I caught the post just before mine and realized where this was inevitably heading.

Moderate the forums enough and you'll be able to recognize a derail before it's even really starting I don't have any problem with discussing TW2 (as it does some things quite well and I think it's a worthy game to discuss), but I don't think we have to enter into another 'no, YOU'RE wrong' debate about the merits of the two games as so many of these debates tend to turn into.

[Mike Laidlaw]

scyphozoa wrote...

Hi Mike, I'd like to ask you about Dragon Age as an open-world game, or a sandbox. One of my biggest issues with DA2 was the heavily instanced level design, as well as the World Map+Day/Night interface. I really disliked this interface as I felt it dwarfed the game world and made it feel very contained and small. I am a big fan of sandbox games, so my opinion is very biased towards large, open worlds. Would you be willing to consider a departure from DA2's World Map and level design to move towards a more open-world design for DA3?

Presuming there will be a DAIII, I expect that level variety and open-ness will be important areas of focus for us. I don't know that we'd move completely to an open world game (ala Fallout/Elder Scrolls), but a more open game certainly would not hurt.

Again, that's a ways off, but I can give you a sense of my leanings/inclinations.

[John Epler]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

By the way John, why have you only got two registered Bioware title's under your profile, as a Bioware developer shouldn't you have them all?

Mostly because I've never gotten around to registering them I actually worked on all of them but Awakenings! But excellent point. Time to register the rest!

[Mike Laidlaw]

FieryDove wrote...
And no I have never said Bio is lying or anyone needs to be fired. I have said the person who thought melee FF was a good idea along with the person who veto'ed David numbers on dialogue selections should be spanked but that is the limit of my hostility...which is mostly nil as in joke.

Hey, guess what! Melee friendly fire on warrior basic attacks is gone in the next patch. Also, PC players can use 1-6 to select dialog. Just start at upper right and count clockwise, if you prefer that.

So...that's something.

[Mike Laidlaw]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Sorry Mike, are you saying that the new patch will change the number key-mappings that are currently in place for dialogue options?  Because the way it currently works is:

4          1
5    2
6           3

(the smiley face is meant to represent the wheel)

Oh, no, sorry. That's still how it works, just mis-remembered. (I'm a clicker!)

[Luke Barrett]

LyndseyCousland wrote...

Although I do have to approve of not posting if you're not sure you can remain professional. Nice to see that on this sort of forum. Now if only I could do the same.

The trick is to reread your posts and make sure you're actually contributing something vital to the conversation before hitting that cheeky little 'submit' button, sitting all innocent down there as if it didn't have the power to pour pure hatred or irrational jibber-jabber at it's finger tip.

On a related note I write about 4x more posts than I actually end up posting. Sometimes it's just good to get your opinion out on paper and reread it and then click 'cancel' if only for the catharsis of expressing your opinion. Now, obviously I have a little more stock in being concise and professional than the average forum poster BUT I think the advice is sound for anyone who wants to be taken seriously.

Now, on topic: I'll just reiterate that we always take notice of even the smallest complaints or feedback. I actually PM quite a few active members of the gameplay forums or even canvass general forums just to further flesh out what people really like or dislike in the game and how we can go about improving those facets. A good example is the quick line I saw about flavor text on items in this thread - I've seen this pop up a few times elsewhere and I think it's a valid point which I will *attempt* to escalate through the appropriate channels.

[Luke Barrett]

Let's try not to get too far off track here. Perhaps you should make a separate thread along the lines of 'less is more' to further discuss the merits of each of your opinions on the matter.

[Mike Laidlaw]

JakePT wrote...
We know you're listening, we know you're aware of the issues the game had, all I want is for you to be more upfront with us. Otherwise, how can we trust you in the future to make a great game when all you've given us regarding Dragon Age 2 is "Whoops!".

There are few commercial ventures that can afford to be completely transparent, and this is no exception. If not hearing a detailed post-mortem for DAII is going to be a game breaker for your trust, that is unfortunate, but not something I would expect rectified.

Sorry.

[Mike Laidlaw]

lobi wrote...

Hard to take you seriously Mr Laidlaw.

It's the clown makeup, isn't it? Damn it, I knew that was a bad idea.

[John Epler]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

lobi wrote...

Hard to take you seriously Mr Laidlaw.

It's the clown makeup, isn't it? Damn it, I knew that was a bad idea.

I said, 'Mike, if you set the unicycle on fire, you'll seem cool and dangerous'.

But nooo. Stupid OHSA.

[Mike Laidlaw]

lobi wrote...

Or he could reply to this...
Thanks for the teaser images, although why wait till now to show more Free Marches?
Is it really time to come back to the forums or is it an obligation as per DLC release schedule?"

And not get all ego about this
Hard to take you seriously Mr Laidlaw. but once again "nihil novi sub sole".

Well, you see, when you ask me a question, and then say "I don't take you seriously," you are setting up a dialog in which there's not a lot of point in continuing, since by your own admission, you're not going to take me seriously. As to why we're showing those images now, it's because they're ready to be shown. As to why I'm returning to the forums now? Well, I thought it might be a nice treat to bring some images.

If you wish to see my numerous responses in this thread at midnight, on my own time, as a marketing ploy, there's not much I can do to stop that. But if you're not going to take someone seriously, you don't have a lot of right to complain if they crack a joke.

Now, back to dipping that unicycle in kerosene. Epler: get those matches ready, buddy. We're going to the moon.

[John Epler]

Firky wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Woah woah, there. You need your fishbowl helmets or else you're going to suffocate!

Zak McKracken!

Good god, that brings me back. I loved that game. That and Maniac Mansion - ahh, memories.

As to the wider point - I think that most people on these forums are very well-spoken, even if they weren't necessarily happy with DA2, whether in whole or in part. And those aren't the folks that I take issue with - it's when personal attacks enter the equation that it becomes a bit much. It's one thing to see people dissecting something you worked hard on - sure, it's difficult, but criticism is a necessary part of growing in any artistic capacity. It's quite another thing, of course, to see people wishing for your firing and worse.

So thank you to those of you who have remained polite and civil throughout. I think it speaks well to the quality of this community that those who felt the need to descend to personal attacks are the minority, and those who can discuss their concerns rationally and reasonably are the majority.

[Luke Barrett]

In Exile wrote...

I just want to echo this sentiment, with respect to the potential of DAII. It could have been brilliant. But it wasn't.

For me, this was the first Bioware misstep. I'll still be onboard for DLC and DAIII. But there needs to be a higher standard. This thread was a great first step. Now, there needs to be content that follows up on the promises here. A substantive show that DAIII and DAII DLC will be better.

If it helps at all, I've got a long list of items that I made entirely from forum feedback that I check new content against when I'm working with it. Basically, I want to make sure everything we touch going forward meets and exceeds community expectations on all fronts. I'm sure the higher-ups have similar lists when they are dealing with the macro of it all (I deal primarily in micro)

Modifié par Luke Barrett, 27 mai 2011 - 06:51 .

[Luke Barrett]

JakePT wrote...
We obviously want you to take feedback into account, but don't compromise your artistic integrity to do so. Take feedback into account, but stay true to what Dragon Age is supposed to be.

Yes, there is obviously a fine line between pandering and improving based on feedback. Everything is always carefully assessed, I was merely trying to imply that we're doing the best we can to improve on a daily basis and ensure what is best for the franchise as well as what the community wants to see. Obviously when those two things conflict we have to make a judgment call and live with the consequences, one way or the other.

Modifié par Luke Barrett, 27 mai 2011 - 07:17 .

[John Epler]

Enough with the bickering.

If you guys want to fire shots back and forth, keep it to PMs, or preferably, out of the forums entirely. No one in this debate is doing anything other than trying to 'win' the argument - which, by now, you should realize isn't going to happen on these forums.