1373 réponses à ce sujet

[tmp7704]

Cutlass Jack wrote...
What about the "I want females out of their armor" crowd?

That totally riles up the "these sex scenes are ridiculous looking" folks.

(perhaps the "iconic appearances or bust" ones as well. Although on second thought, technically getting the bust meets the conditions of these)

Modifié par tmp7704, 27 mai 2011 - 05:41 .

[XXX PALADIN XXX]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

I am absolutely aware of the concerns voiced here. Issues like level re-use, the implementation of wave combat, concerns about the narrative and significance of choice and so on have all been not only noted, but examined,
inspected and even aided me (and many, many others on the team) in formulating future plans. Further, I'm not only aware of the concerns, but I agree that there are aspects of DA II that not only can but must be improved in future installments. And that is precisely our intent.

Actually I was fine with all that and I totally loved the game!  However, the amount of game crushing bugs seemed to be disproportionally high compared to previous BioWare titles and that is what disappointed me the most.  As of right now, I'm still waiting for the 1.02 patch so that I can truly complete the game.

Modifié par XXX PALADIN XXX, 27 mai 2011 - 05:43 .

[KilrB]

OK, now that all the suck-ups have had their say:

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
Hey guys and gals,

As some of you have noted, I have been absent from these forums for a time, and my apologies for going dark, but I did not feel prepared to deal with some of the more personal attacks in a professional manner. And as a rule if I don't feel like I'm going to be professional, I don't post. You guys deserve better than that.

I don't blame you, and yes we do.

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
I’d like to take this opportunity to address some lingering concerns and clear the air somewhat.

So would we.

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
Following the launch of DA II, I did some interviews and some of you interpreted my statements to mean I was blind to the concerns that have been voiced repeatedly on these forums. That was never my intent, nor the message I wanted to convey.

No interpretation necessary IMO.  You made it quite clear that you 're not blind ... you just don't care.

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
I am absolutely aware of the concerns voiced here. Issues like level re-use, the implementation of wave combat, concerns about the narrative and significance of choice and so on have all been not only noted, but examined,
inspected and even aided me (and many, many others on the team) in formulating future plans. Further, I'm not only aware of the concerns, but I agree that there are aspects of DA II that not only can but must be improved in future installments. And that is precisely our intent.

Those concerns should have been noted and addressed BEFORE release.

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
Finally, let me conclude by saying that while we are all aware of your concerns, I am very proud of what the team accomplished with Dragon Age II. I know many are advocating a "it wasn't broke, why did you try to fix it?" stance, and I absolutely understand why. From my perspective, as someone looking to the future and the DA franchise, I think that DA II moved us into a space that has more potential.

Sales don't reflect that.

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
A larger potential audience? Sure, who wouldn’t want more players diving into the experience of playing an RPG? More importantly, though, I believe that there's also more potential for rich stories, for deeper RPG mechanics, for more choice, and for something even more epic to come. The story events of DA II have fundamentally altered the political and power landscape of Thedas, in a way that's open to intrigue, drama and sweeping conflict in the
future, and evolves a world that, while still very much involving the Grey Wardens and Darkspawn, is about more than just that one struggle.

A larger potential audience?

Again, sales don't reflect that.

Rich stories, for deeper RPG mechanics, for more choice, and for something even more epic to come?

Exactly the opposite of what we got.

You scammed me out of $60 Mike.

I hope it was worth it, cause it may be the last money EA/Bioware gets out of me.

You talk a lot about potential.

Dragon Age 2 had it, and you wasted it.

[Cutlass Jack]

Elhanan wrote...

I made that mistake in a Dev meeting once, ".. and we should do away with bikini chanmail...."
The others instantly agreed!

Probably for the same reason I approved when Victoria's Secret advertised "Bras half off!"

[TheTranzor]

KilrB wrote...

OK, now that all the suck-ups have had their say:

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
Hey guys and gals,

As some of you have noted, I have been absent from these forums for a time, and my apologies for going dark, but I did not feel prepared to deal with some of the more personal attacks in a professional manner. And as a rule if I don't feel like I'm going to be professional, I don't post. You guys deserve better than that.

I don't blame you, and yes we do.

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
I’d like to take this opportunity to address some lingering concerns and clear the air somewhat.

So would we.

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
Following the launch of DA II, I did some interviews and some of you interpreted my statements to mean I was blind to the concerns that have been voiced repeatedly on these forums. That was never my intent, nor the message I wanted to convey.

No interpretation necessary IMO.  You made it quite clear that you 're not blind ... you just don't care.

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
I am absolutely aware of the concerns voiced here. Issues like level re-use, the implementation of wave combat, concerns about the narrative and significance of choice and so on have all been not only noted, but examined,
inspected and even aided me (and many, many others on the team) in formulating future plans. Further, I'm not only aware of the concerns, but I agree that there are aspects of DA II that not only can but must be improved in future installments. And that is precisely our intent.

Those concerns should have been noted and addressed BEFORE release.

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
Finally, let me conclude by saying that while we are all aware of your concerns, I am very proud of what the team accomplished with Dragon Age II. I know many are advocating a "it wasn't broke, why did you try to fix it?" stance, and I absolutely understand why. From my perspective, as someone looking to the future and the DA franchise, I think that DA II moved us into a space that has more potential.

Sales don't reflect that.

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
A larger potential audience? Sure, who wouldn’t want more players diving into the experience of playing an RPG? More importantly, though, I believe that there's also more potential for rich stories, for deeper RPG mechanics, for more choice, and for something even more epic to come. The story events of DA II have fundamentally altered the political and power landscape of Thedas, in a way that's open to intrigue, drama and sweeping conflict in the
future, and evolves a world that, while still very much involving the Grey Wardens and Darkspawn, is about more than just that one struggle.

A larger potential audience?

Again, sales don't reflect that.

Rich stories, for deeper RPG mechanics, for more choice, and for something even more epic to come?

Exactly the opposite of what we got.

You scammed me out of $60 Mike.

I hope it was worth it, cause it may be the last money EA/Bioware gets out of me.

You talk a lot about potential.

Dragon Age 2 had it, and you wasted it.

Wow... major tears on your pillow.  Seriously, if he "scammed" you out of $60, you must be the easiest mark in history.   

And if $60 for something bothers you, I'd hate to think what you might do if you make a bad decision buying a television, or a furniture set, or heaven forbid a car... hopefully people keep the long length of rope and the rafters away from you if that ever happens.

Personally, I appreciate that Laidlaw came out here and addressed some concerns and decided to take some heat... because you know that's what he was going to get from a lot of people here.  The game had its issues for sure, but it was far from the worst game in history that I felt so teary-eyed that I went all Dawson's Creek-style angsty over it.

[Ottemis]

Thanks Mike, honestly I'd have trusted you guys to take all feedback seriously regardless, it's good to hear nonetheless.
Furthermore, I hope that you guys will get the time/freedom in the future that's needed to create things that live up to your vision of what's to come =) I trust it to be grand.

Anyways, chapeau. Rock on! =)

Modifié par Ottemis, 27 mai 2011 - 06:01 .

[jmadsen]

KilrB wrote...

OK, now that all the suck-ups have had their say:

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
Hey guys and gals,

As some of you have noted, I have been absent from these forums for a time, and my apologies for going dark, but I did not feel prepared to deal with some of the more personal attacks in a professional manner. And as a rule if I don't feel like I'm going to be professional, I don't post. You guys deserve better than that.

I don't blame you, and yes we do.

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
I’d like to take this opportunity to address some lingering concerns and clear the air somewhat.

So would we.

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
Following the launch of DA II, I did some interviews and some of you interpreted my statements to mean I was blind to the concerns that have been voiced repeatedly on these forums. That was never my intent, nor the message I wanted to convey.

No interpretation necessary IMO.  You made it quite clear that you 're not blind ... you just don't care.

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
I am absolutely aware of the concerns voiced here. Issues like level re-use, the implementation of wave combat, concerns about the narrative and significance of choice and so on have all been not only noted, but examined,
inspected and even aided me (and many, many others on the team) in formulating future plans. Further, I'm not only aware of the concerns, but I agree that there are aspects of DA II that not only can but must be improved in future installments. And that is precisely our intent.

Those concerns should have been noted and addressed BEFORE release.

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
Finally, let me conclude by saying that while we are all aware of your concerns, I am very proud of what the team accomplished with Dragon Age II. I know many are advocating a "it wasn't broke, why did you try to fix it?" stance, and I absolutely understand why. From my perspective, as someone looking to the future and the DA franchise, I think that DA II moved us into a space that has more potential.

Sales don't reflect that.

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
A larger potential audience? Sure, who wouldn’t want more players diving into the experience of playing an RPG? More importantly, though, I believe that there's also more potential for rich stories, for deeper RPG mechanics, for more choice, and for something even more epic to come. The story events of DA II have fundamentally altered the political and power landscape of Thedas, in a way that's open to intrigue, drama and sweeping conflict in the
future, and evolves a world that, while still very much involving the Grey Wardens and Darkspawn, is about more than just that one struggle.

A larger potential audience?

Again, sales don't reflect that.

Rich stories, for deeper RPG mechanics, for more choice, and for something even more epic to come?

Exactly the opposite of what we got.

You scammed me out of $60 Mike.

I hope it was worth it, cause it may be the last money EA/Bioware gets out of me.

You talk a lot about potential.

Dragon Age 2 had it, and you wasted it.

you know some liked da2

[Savber100]

Please announce free DLCs with all-new enviroments.

Do you have any idea how much worse you can look if you offer an apology and then spend 1/4 of your post in marketing the newest $10 DLC for DA2?

Just release it for free. Please Bioware. I beg thee.

[Realmzmaster]

Savber100 wrote...

Please announce free DLCs with all-new enviroments.

Do you have any idea how much worse you can look if you offer an apology and then spend 1/4 of your post in marketing the newest $10 DLC for DA2?

Just release it for free. Please Bioware. I beg thee.

Nice thought, but not just Bioware's call. Bioware is going to have to convince the suits at EA to pull that one off.

[MassFrost]

Savber100 wrote...

Please announce free DLCs with all-new enviroments.

Do you have any idea how much worse you can look if you offer an apology and then spend 1/4 of your post in marketing the newest $10 DLC for DA2?

Just release it for free. Please Bioware. I beg thee.

If I had to guess I'd imagine a decision like that is probably out of BioWare's hands.

Also not really sure where Mike was promoting any DLC in his post, aside from maybe the screenshots.

[darrylzero]

Thanks for this.  I love many of the directions that DA2 took but felt let down by others, and I am curious but nervous about how these things will be addressed in the future.

I hope part of the feedback that has resonated with you is not just a need for better combat (I for one was mostly OK with the combat itself) but also for better non-combat problem-solving options.  I know I'll never get as many as I want, and I'm ok with that, but the most painful part of DA2 to me was blundering into fight after fight, when the characters I want to play -- all of them -- will at least try to avoid most fights.  The removal of stealth as an out-of-combat option in this regard really hurt for me, in that regard.

However, I would also really like to be able to run away from fights (which was not much easier in DAO).  I think part of what is exciting about role-playing games is character development.  That is, I want my heroes to be forged by events, not born heroes, which means I would really, really like the option to play them as relatively cowardly and selfish at the beginning of the game in order to redeem themselves by the end.

I tried to summarize those concerns, at least with regard to rogues, here.  If you any of you devs feel inclined to comment now that some of the conversation is restarting, that would be wonderful.  I put a lot of energy into that thread (and the threads I link to in that thread) and was sad that it didn't attract more attention.  More than anything, I just hope it was one of the feedback threads you actually read, rather than something that kind of disappeared into the ether.  Any confirmation you could offer of that would be greatly appreciated.

Modifié par darrylzero, 27 mai 2011 - 06:12 .

[PaulSX]

RageGT wrote...

suntzuxi wrote...
the wticher 2 trolls make me disgusting  wicher 2 doest not even live up to witcher 1, not to compare it to other bioware past rpgs~~well its graphics is pretty good

That, sir, is an outright lie! And it's not even a matter of  opinion. Yes, that guy you were replying is a ****** but you should ask Persephone, the top DA2 fan ever, what she thinks of TW2. Maybe play it yourself until you master the game (pretty much the same as TW1 where people complain about combat mostly because they suck at it). Or perhaps she, me and others that like both are just "freaks" as she's put it.

I played through TW2 once. It is the same thing that Bioware put off with Dragon Age 2 just with better scripting and graphics.  I really do not see how it's better than TW1 and other BioWare classics. 

[Savber100]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

Please announce free DLCs with all-new enviroments.

Do you have any idea how much worse you can look if you offer an apology and then spend 1/4 of your post in marketing the newest $10 DLC for DA2?

Just release it for free. Please Bioware. I beg thee.

Nice thought, but not just Bioware's call. Bioware is going to have to convince the suits at EA to pull that one off.

Bioware is the current HEAD of EA's RPG divison with the doctors playing a pivotal role in EA. If Bioware can even show the slightest semblance of trying  to persuade EA to do otherwise I'll be encouraged.

[Dave of Canada]

suntzuxi wrote...

I played through TW2 once. It is the same thing that Bioware put off with Dragon Age 2 just with better scripting and graphics.  I really do not see how it's better than TW1 and other BioWare classics. 

I agree, though you better have a flame shield equipped. >.>

[ToJKa1]

Well, he talked the talk. Now let's see if he walks the walk.

The promise in "Epic community event"'s apology says no (Though that wasn't Mr. Laidlaw).

[Savber100]

Dave of Canada wrote...

suntzuxi wrote...

I played through TW2 once. It is the same thing that Bioware put off with Dragon Age 2 just with better scripting and graphics.  I really do not see how it's better than TW1 and other BioWare classics. 

I agree, though you better have a flame shield equipped. >.>

No... That is the truth.

Both games are startlingly similar. A typical voiced badass human protagonist with paraphrased dialogue choices amidst a plot of political turmoil and racial tension. Witcher 2 is a hack-n-slash. Dragon Age 2 has been accused of being a hack-n-slash.

Yet, the Witcher 2 was better than DA2 simply because it was richer, living environments, more diverse areas, and had a bountiful amount of choices and interesting scenarios.

DA2 is a poor man Witcher 2.

[daemon1129]

ToJKa1 wrote...

Well, he talked the talk. Now let's see if he walks the walk.

The promise in "Epic community event"'s apology says no (Though that wasn't Mr. Laidlaw).

This.  I am still mad about all the day 1 DLCs and the whole business side of things, but I do believe there are plenty of good people working in BioWare, and they do have the passion to release great games.  With that said, I am still very reserve in whether or not would I pre-order a BioWare ever again, until I see what is DA3 turning up to be...

[flexxdk]

I remain skeptical.

Prove me wrong, Mike. Prove me wrong.

(Yes, that was an encouragement.)

JohnEpler wrote...
But nooo. Stupid OSHA.

I remember the time where you could hit someone in the face with a crowbar and step in a big crane with one hell of a magnet, lift up an container and use it to swipe a Combine squad off the pier...

Wait, we're talking about games here, right?

(It's OSHA, by the way.)

Modifié par Whacka, 27 mai 2011 - 06:46 .

[Valus]

Savber100 wrote...

Please announce free DLCs with all-new enviroments.

Do you have any idea how much worse you can look if you offer an apology and then spend 1/4 of your post in marketing the newest $10 DLC for DA2?

Just release it for free. Please Bioware. I beg thee.

Unlikely. I am almost certain the devs would like nothing more than to unload tons of DLC upon us at no charge but it isn't likely to happen. As previously stated it's not likely to be something in thier hands. That being said maybe we should be asking for good DLC rather than free DLC.

[Realmzmaster]

suntzuxi wrote...

RageGT wrote...

suntzuxi wrote...
the wticher 2 trolls make me disgusting  wicher 2 doest not even live up to witcher 1, not to compare it to other bioware past rpgs~~well its graphics is pretty good

That, sir, is an outright lie! And it's not even a matter of  opinion. Yes, that guy you were replying is a ****** but you should ask Persephone, the top DA2 fan ever, what she thinks of TW2. Maybe play it yourself until you master the game (pretty much the same as TW1 where people complain about combat mostly because they suck at it). Or perhaps she, me and others that like both are just "freaks" as she's put it.

I played through TW2 once. It is the same thing that Bioware put off with Dragon Age 2 just with better scripting and graphics.  I really do not see how it's better than TW1 and other BioWare classics. 

Intesting RageGT you call suntzuxi a liar for voicing his opinion of what he thought about TW2. It does not matter what Persephone thinks because that is her opinion. You can disagree with his opinion that does not make him a liar.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 27 mai 2011 - 06:28 .

[WilliamShatner]

If Laidlaw thinks the re-use of levels is the biggest problem with DA2, which appears to be the case, we're in serious trouble.

It's quite easy to say they taking feedback into account on appalling game design decision that even amateur developers KNOW not to make. But re-use of maps is a peripheral issue, not a core one. And using a peripheral issue as a scapegoat is akin to getting on the wrong boat. In the wrong dock. In the wrong country.

It's much harder to say that the entire direction that was taken with the sequel was wrong. Which is what BioWare have to say (to themselves at least) if they want future DA games to be good and to save this one great series, now almost single-handedly destroyed by Napoleon-levels of hubris and terrible decision making.

From my perspective, as someone looking to the future and the DA franchise, I think that DA II moved us into a space that has more potential.

Mike Laidlaw - the Arsene Wenger of game development.

People don't want potential. They want results.

I didn't pay €45 for a game that provides "potential" (which incidentally I don't think it does). I paid €45 to get a FINISHED, COMPLETE game that took DA:O and made it bigger and better, like every sequel should do.

[Ottemis]

WilliamShatner wrote...
It's much harder to say that the entire direction that was taken with the sequel was wrong.

.. for you, not everyone =)
Asmuch as I can understand your frustration, not everyone shares your opinion on this matter.

Modifié par Ottemis, 27 mai 2011 - 06:39 .

[SphereofSilence]

That's the first piece we've heard from you in a while, Mike. I'm glad it was at least somewhat reassuring to hear that you're going to address the issues many of us had with the game.

What I believe, DA2 has many flaws that may be hidden by the obvious ones and the noise of the forum can often hide these that I perceive as more serious problems:
1) DA2's graphics is not up to par. Witcher 2 which was just released were so much better. You could use the current DA2 engine, improve it, and release DA3 in 2-3 years time and it'll likely looked uglier and lags more. I believe there's no way around it, a whole new engine perhaps.
2) A lot has been said about the reuse of environments. But IMO, this isn't taking a step back from DAO, it's taking 3 steps back because, environmental beauty and variety ought to have been IMPROVED from DAO.
3) Combat. Kay what's wrong with it? It's boring and repetitive that's what. Why? You fight essentially the same types of enemies again and again. There's always the standard archer, the standard melee grunt, standard mage, standard assassin and standard lieutenant, regardless of faction. Heck there was even a demon version of the assassin - rage demon. I think when we play RPG we want to see varied enemies with good variety of abilities. It's no fun fighting the same guys over and over. Combat is challenging on hard/nightmare, but sadly the difficulty comes not from the variety of abilities on the enemies' part, or their intelligence, it comes from the sheer number of enemies zerging your party from all sides, in simplistic and predictable 2-wave pattern, often out of thin air. Enough said.
4) In your grandpa's RPGs, unsuccessful attacks missed their target. In Dragon Age 2 they merely cause less damage (glancing blows). Your primary stat (one for each class; might as well make the system even more ‘welcoming’ and call it DAMAGE!!!) determines your base damage and your chance to do extra damage. Hovering your cursor over your attack rating displays a breakdown, for example 85% vs normal enemy, 70% vs enemy lieutenant, 55% vs enemy boss. What does it mean for you? A system where you always hit is an HP game, so you’ll be hitting the “bosses” aka HP behemoths for a very, very long time. The combat talents have been greatly expanded. At first glance the game offers more diversity of choice, but after playing for a while you realize that it actually offers less. For instance, in Dragon Age warriors had 4 talent lines: dual weapon, archery, weapon & shield, two handed. In Dragon Age 2 warriors have only two combat lines – weapon & shield and two handed. If you want to play a dual-wielding fighter, you HAVE to play a rogue. Eventually, probably by the time you hit level 14-16 you’ll build a fairly capable character with most or all skills you want to have. Then you’ll have no reasons to look forward to the next level up, which is one of the three main elements of action RPGs, and start losing interest. If you’re wondering why, imagine Diablo 2 without the ability to invest multiple points and with poorly designed and balanced skills. Level scaling once again proves to be an abomination and a slight against God, ruining both combat and the item system. Every time you level up, you actually get weaker. Your “to hit chance” and armor rating go down (because enemies’ to hit chance and armor rating go up), which is absolutely retarded. So, your equipment, including unique items, lose their value faster than you can blink, and priceless artefacts of yesterday are quickly surpassed by the local mass production. If you want to maintain your combat worthiness you have to hit the shops after a level up or two and buy (often the same looking) weapons/armor with a 5-7% increase in stats. I stopped playing on Nightmare (just to progress the story faster, and to finish all fights as soon as possible because they weren’t any fun any more) when I started Act 3. My patience was overcome by a dragon. It was a fearsome beast, full of vigour and hit points. Borrowing a page from console boss fights, he would fly to a remote rock every time I’d get his HP down by a quarter (which takes like 5 minutes real time) and summon some chicken-dragon trash mobs while shooting exploding projectiles at my party. Somewhere between sitting and watching my characters slowly – ever so very slowly – chipping away at the dragon’s health bar and keeping an eye on the cool down counters, I asked myself what part of this tedious exercise constitutes fun and couldn’t really come up with a good answer. I remember fighting Firkraag, the red dragon in Baldur’s Gate 2. Now THAT was fun. The dragon didn’t have a health bar. It had only 180 hit points. We called them tactics, son. And the sword you got after the fight didn’t become obsolete the moment you leveled up.

[mr_luga]

I want to bring Laidlaw's attention to this thread: http://social.biowar...1/index/7479000

That's a worry I got with Dragon age 3, that you just wont listen at all. We said soo many times, and complained so many times about the direction Dragon age 2 went, and we were pretty much given the finger about it. I hope this dosnt happen once again