1373 réponses à ce sujet

[erynnar]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

You're assuming everyone hated him to begin with. A few loud people jumping up and down with torches doesn't really make a mob.

Does create a really annoying sound, though.

Yeah the same annoying sound from all those jumping up and down with torches yelling at those who didn't like the game. Thank goodness neither group was particularly large. And the majorit of the fine and delightful company here have had fantastic debates which I hoped helped Mr. Laidlaw and crew make their lists. :happy:

And for the record, I do not approve of threats against someone even in jest, and I am Mr. Laidlaw had to put up with that ****e.

[Dragoonlordz]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Isn't the second one basically just a rehash of Kirkwall itself, third one is from DAO aka Cadash Thaig? As for the first one looks ok, bit small and boring if only location a simple house across bridge would be like 5 minutes of gameplay to clear every room dozen times over. I would assume there is a LOT more to that concept than some house over a bridge (a small house at that)...

[upsettingshorts]

Greenleaf6 wrote...

   I'm guessing there was a lot of pressure from your publisher to make someo of the decisions you did. But this isn't a Madden game. This isn't Call of Duty. This a Bioware game. This is an RPG. It's more complicated than those other games because an RPG requires us to care about the story and the interactions.

I do hate it when people pick on genres they don't like as somehow inherently lacking in complexity.  

Fact:  It's 1st and 10 and I'm controlling my team in Madden.  I have, literally, over a hundred options to choose from when it comes to how I'm going to attack the defense.  Maybe I'm even playing franchise mode, and even assembled that team of fifty players on my own.  Why wouldn't I care about my team and my coaching staff and my success? 

The difference between Madden and say, DA2, is that the former doesn't attempt ambitious changes between installments.  Nor does it really advertise that it does.  It picks a feature or two to improve upon and does that.  I personally haven't gotten Madden in a couple of years because of this, and they're often criticized for not being ambitious enough - but each game is solid, and the upcoming game is adding more depth to my favorite parts, so I might grab it this year.

The more you know.  Oh, and stop pooping on whole game genres.  We get it, you - and most people here including myself, love cRPGs, but there's nothing inherently special about cRPG players, or cRPG games.  Really, it's just a genre of game.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 27 mai 2011 - 08:21 .

[Master Shiori]

Dragoonlordz wrote...


Isn't the second one basically just a rehash of Kirkwall itself?

Not quite. It's more like someone blew up Kirkwall and all you have left is rabble. To me it looks like a quarry or a mine.

Dragoonlordz wrote...



third one is from DAO aka Cadash Thaig?

It's obviously a dwarven thaig so yes, it shares similarities with Cadash Thaig by the way of architecture. It's impossible to say whether the layout is the same though.

Dragoonlordz wrote...



As for the first one looks ok, bit small and boring if only location a simple house across bridge would be like 5 minutes of gameplay to clear every room dozen times over. I would assume there is a LOT more to that concept than some house over a bridge (a small house at that)...

It's actually a tower, so there's more to it than just a few rooms. 

[_Davidian_]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Finally, let me conclude by saying that while we are all aware of your concerns, I am very proud of what the team accomplished with Dragon Age II. I know many are advocating a "it wasn't broke, why did you try to fix it?" stance, and I absolutely understand why. From my perspective, as someone looking to the future and the DA franchise, I think that DA II moved us into a space that has more potential.

A larger potential audience? Sure, who wouldn’t want more players diving into the experience of playing an RPG?
...

first of all, thanks for answering

the problem i see is that by trying to reach a bigger audience you have to make certain changes that make the game less interesting to the original audience you had with DA:O and with every other game bioware has made over the years

i already posted my thoughts about DAII and how i abandoned the game after 6 hours of gameplay

how can you retain the old "hardcore RPG" audience and gain new players by making the game "less complex"??

i´m sorry but i´m afraid that the answer to that question is "you can´t". And if the future of DA is going to be like DAII i guess that i´ll miss it.

Also, the original DA:O was not super hardcore RPG either. It was a really good balance for me at least.

i don´t want my post to sound agresive or something like that, just want to express my opinion

[Chaia]

Haven't been able to get on the forums much for a couple of weeks since DA2 came out, what with uni work piling up (thankfully all over), but its good to see that the forums have cooled down a tad, the first few weeks when DA2 was released were....erm, turbulent to say the lest; and its good to see Mike and the other devs coming back to the forums to talk after the personal attacks are mostly over. Regardless, its great to finally see something for the DLC, hopefully we'll hear and see some more soon.

[Pudricks]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Greenleaf6 wrote...

   I'm guessing there was a lot of pressure from your publisher to make someo of the decisions you did. But this isn't a Madden game. This isn't Call of Duty. This a Bioware game. This is an RPG. It's more complicated than those other games because an RPG requires us to care about the story and the interactions.

I do hate it when people pick on genres they don't like as somehow inherently lacking in complexity.  

Fact:  It's 1st and 10 and I'm controlling my team in Madden.  I have, literally, over a hundred options to choose from when it comes to how I'm going to attack the defense.  Maybe I'm even playing franchise mode, and even assembled that team of fifty players on my own.  Why wouldn't I care about my team and my coaching staff and my success? 

The difference between Madden and say, DA2, is that the former doesn't attempt ambitious changes between installments.  Nor does it really advertise that it does.  It picks a feature or two to improve upon and does that.  I personally haven't gotten Madden in a couple of years because of this, and they're often criticized for not being ambitious enough - but each game is solid, and the upcoming game is adding more depth to my favorite parts, so I might grab it this year.

The more you know.  Oh, and stop pooping on whole game genres.  We get it, you - and most people here including myself, love cRPGs, but there's nothing inherently special about cRPG players, or cRPG games.  Really, it's just a genre of game.

I'm sure they're fine games. I just don't really play them. I don't doubt that there are significant complexities in their gameplay. What I was saying is that an RPG is more complicated to produce in a sense that, in order for it to be successful for its genre, it requires us to have a connection to the story, characters, and interactions. It's more complicated, in a way, than a sheet of statistics or balancing a new set of weaponry.

Modifié par Greenleaf6, 27 mai 2011 - 08:28 .

[darknoon5]

This thread makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside :3

Dragon age 2 was a good if not flawed game, hopefully dragon age 3 will be a great game, and you obviously seem to be listening to feedback. Those pictures look promising, DLC or DA3?

[CalJones]

Having worked in the games industry for, hmm, 17 years (initially as a games journalist and reviews editor, then later as a recruiter) I tend to be a little more forgiving because I've seen first-hand what goes into making a game and how crazy things get at crunch time. Given the length of DA2's development cycle I'm begging most of the folks on the project didn't get to spend a lot of time with friends and family towards the end. In fact, EA most likely installed a large, sweaty bald man to bang a drum while the good folk at Bioware worked chained to their desks. (OK, maybe not all external producers are large, bald and sweaty, but you get the picture).

Consequently, I can forgive little things like reusing assets. I still think the game was enjoyable and had a lot of good ideas behind it (I didn't even mind the dialogue wheel) - it just felt rushed. My main criticism was the lack of meaningful choice (as far as the main story goes, the choices are there, but cosmetic - for instance, no matter how you choose to resolve Act of Mercy in Chapter 1, it will always lead to exactly the same set-up for Best Served Cold in Chapter 3) so I will be very happy if this is addressed in future DA games and DLCs/expansions.

[PeanutRay]

Thanks for the response!

I feel that DAO was like FF7, and DA2 was like FF8. While FF7 mastered the epic story telling of a grand tale, FF8 mastered the up-close and personal for each character. FF9 and FF10 combined the best of these and while commercially not as successful or widely praised, I feel that they were better games in terms of storytelling.

I personally like the conflicts and struggles in DA2 much more. They felt like they matter. I felt like there was significant reason for Hawke and company to get involved. In DAO, it was too classic of, "of course the hero has to save the world." I think Flemeth said it best in DA2, the Champion was thrust into chaos and had no choice but fight. The texture of the DA2 story is just much richer.

There are other things that DAO did better than DA2, and vice versa. I sincerely hope DA3 combines the best of both. Looking forward to DA2 DLC and DA3!

[Nightshade IX]

Thanks for the heart-felt post.

While I understand, for the sake of profits, the need to bring in a wider audience even if it means pissing off your old fanbase, the difficulty of that task cannot be underestimated. Whenever, I try to get my shooter (or even action adventure) friends to play games like dragon age, all they would say is 'there's too much time spent talking'. But what is a Bioware rpg without deep, interactive dialogue?

With that said, though I'm deeply disappointed with dragon age 2, I still look forward to the improvements in part 3.

[Dragoonlordz]

Master Shiori wrote...

It is still Kirkwall, the place people have spent (supposedy 10 years in already), whether its the ruins of Kirkwall or not. As for Thaig if it is a thaig then it's more likley the original concept artwork for the first game just not seen before because if it's not then it's still going back to the same place already been in DAO more than likley. As for the tower and/or house that artwork is still small and only shows a 2 story building, very small one across a bridge I hardly think it's something to be excited about myself but to each their own I guess.

[Dexter111]

Which stage were they at again?

[xi ShadowWolf x]

Blood-Lord Thanatos wrote...

Mike, allow me to speak for the veterans:

THIS IS THE BESTEST SODDING UPDATE EVER!

I salute the Developers for having the courage to keep calm and carry on like true artists. I wish to point out that I have been waiting patiently for some awesome story based DLC and some more patches before I give my personal review of your product. I say this because I wish to be fair to the Dev's, including David, Jennifer, Kirby, John, and the rest.

I compleatly agree with this

[Archyyy]

Its nice that hes saying something and that he at least claims to have listened to the critic and complaints but Im still worried about him trying to go after the larder audience. Maybe its just EA forcing him but still that doesnt change anything. In order to get a larger audience he would have to dumb down the game even more on the expence of those who actually like rpgs because of rpg elements. He cant possible get both audiences as they are interested in completely different things. Theres no way a good rpg can attract the cod crowd or the console crowd or any other bunch that cant handle rpgs. Im generalizing here though. Not all cod players or console players are idiots, theres just more of them among those than other groups and its an easy stereotype to use.

[julian08]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
*snip*

Also, there seem to be rather a lot of….are those griffins?
I think they might be!

Are you saying that there are griffins in this DLC? If there are no griffins in it, I don't want it

[Wulfram]

If Bioware had listened to the feedback to Awakening, DA2 would have been a different game.

[Master Shiori]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

It is still Kirkwall, the place people have spent (supposedy 10 years in already), whether its the ruins of Kirkwall or not. As for Thaig if it is a thaig then it's more likley the original concept artwork for the first game just not seen before because if it's not then it's still going back to the same place already been in DAO more than likley. As for the tower and/or house that artwork is still small and only shows a 2 story building, very small one across a bridge I hardly think it's something to be excited about myself but to each their own I guess.

It's a ruin that shares the same arhitecture as Kirkwall, not surprising since whatever was there originally was most likely built by Tevinter Imperium, just as Kirkwall was. Therefore it shouldn't surprise you that they look similar.

And all thaigs looked the same even back in Origins. I certainly don't remember Cadash Thaig being built in a different style from, say, Ortan Thaig or Aeducan Thiag. That doesn't mean they all shared the same layout.

The tower isn't shown in it's entirety. You only see the entrance and a bit of it's surroundings. Even so, you cannot tell how it's interior looks, how many floors there are or what you'll find inside.

[Yrkoon]

Master Shiori wrote...

The tower isn't shown in it's entirety. You only see the entrance and a bit of it's surroundings. Even so, you cannot tell how it's interior looks, how many floors there are or what you'll find inside.

Wouldn't it be a hilarious kick in the pants if the interior of that tower ended up being the Orange dungeon from DA2?

lol

[Dragoonlordz]

Master Shiori wrote...

It's a ruin that shares the same arhitecture as Kirkwall, not surprising since whatever was there originally was most likely built by Tevinter Imperium, just as Kirkwall was. Therefore it shouldn't surprise you that they look similar.

And all thaigs looked the same even back in Origins. I certainly don't remember Cadash Thaig being built in a different style from, say, Ortan Thaig or Aeducan Thiag. That doesn't mean they all shared the same layout.

The tower isn't shown in it's entirety. You only see the entrance and a bit of it's surroundings. Even so, you cannot tell how it's interior looks, how many floors there are or what you'll find inside.

I'll put as simple opinion rather than explaining more than needed, I felt  uninspired by those images given too much resemblance to what has come before and too little to get hyped up over in other regards. But thats just me and I stated why that is, everyone is free to feel differently obviously.

Probably inside looks like this



Just kidding...

My point is if he had shown something of this scale I would have been far more excited than seeing things that look simular to what has already been released in DAO and DA2. That I don't find the concept art he showed as personally exciting and would have prefered a larger concept peices over broader area.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 27 mai 2011 - 09:24 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Now that you're back, Mike. I have a question I've wanted to ask you since the game was released.

The demos you guys showed the press contained a detachable camera for spell targetting. And, you even said this:

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

I have always felt that the key to tactical play was actually freeing your camera from the character you're controlling to issue precise orders

Source

So where did it go? The feature vanished suddenly when the game went gold, and you guys have never mentioned it again, even though you said previously that it was an important feature that the game needed in order to be tactical.

The other feature that suddenly disappeared at release - the auto-attack on consoles - resulted in BioWare being very clear that its removal had been accidental, and that it would be respotred in a patch. But no comment at all was made about the detachable camera.

Could you please restate your support, even in general terms, for a detachable camera as an important part of tactical gameplay? You were right, a detachable camera is an important feature, and DA2 doesn't have it. I really wish it did.

[Master Shiori]

Yrkoon wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

The tower isn't shown in it's entirety. You only see the entrance and a bit of it's surroundings. Even so, you cannot tell how it's interior looks, how many floors there are or what you'll find inside.

Wouldn't it be a hilarious kick in the pants if the interior of that tower ended up being the Orange dungeon from DA2?

lol

It certainly would, but it wouldn't make any sense.

If I had to make a guess I'd say the interior might be similar to the Circle Tower in Ferelden. Ofc, I have no way of knowing if that's true or not.

[Master Shiori]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

It's a ruin that shares the same arhitecture as Kirkwall, not surprising since whatever was there originally was most likely built by Tevinter Imperium, just as Kirkwall was. Therefore it shouldn't surprise you that they look similar.

And all thaigs looked the same even back in Origins. I certainly don't remember Cadash Thaig being built in a different style from, say, Ortan Thaig or Aeducan Thiag. That doesn't mean they all shared the same layout.

The tower isn't shown in it's entirety. You only see the entrance and a bit of it's surroundings. Even so, you cannot tell how it's interior looks, how many floors there are or what you'll find inside.

I'll put as simple opinion rather than explaining more than needed, I felt  uninspired by those images given too much resemblance to what has come before and too little to get hyped up over in other regards. But thats just me and I stated why that is, everyone is free to feel differently obviously.

Fair enough and I wasn't trying to make you change your mind about them. I simply explained why some of those places may share a resemblance to what came before.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 27 mai 2011 - 09:20 .

[NamiraWilhelm]

Good on you Laidlaw, wonderful post and we are appeased! Looking forward to franchise reaching its full potential.

[axl99]

I'm looking at in progress screenshots. That doesn't say much to me other than the fact.