1373 réponses à ce sujet

[LaidGenie]

Thank you Mike, it takes a real gentleman to listen to what people say about your work (both good and bad) think on it and then reply without losing your temper especially after you have put time and effort into something that was different from the original game, a brave but necessary step. All the DA2 team deserve much respect and thanks for their efforts. You are never going to please everyone and i look forward to some interesting DLC (if the pics are anything to go by). Waiting in anticipation.

[AngryFrozenWater]

[quote]erynnar wrote...

[quote]AngryFrozenWater wrote...

[quote]erynnar wrote...

[quote]Maverick827 wrote...

[quote]BeefoTheBold wrote...

With all due respect, your perspective is not the one that matters. The customer's perspective is the important one. [/quote]With no due respect, not only are you incorrect, but you are not all customers and thus probably shouldn't speak as if you are. You know of maybe one thousand disgruntled fans (on the internet, no less) out of millions of consumers: to believe this number is significant is simply ignorant.

[quote]This post addressing the community simply screams that you haven't heard the feedback that you got. Your response is still, "I'm right and you're wrong." [/quote]As opposed to the malcontents on this forum's brilliant argument of "you're wrong and we're right?"

[quote]I love both basketball games and football games but for dramatically different reasons. If I'm in the mood for a good football game, it doesn't matter if the basketball game is the best damn basketball video game ever created if it wasn't the type of game that I wanted to play and bought and this is at the core of your deeply flawed current understanding of what it will take to make the community happy.[/quote]The more apt analogy would be that you wanted a football game, and you bought a football game, but it was professional football and you wanted college football. Actually, the best analogy would be no analogy at all, but instead an actual argument.

[quote]And that's the problem that Bioware refuses to address. You have disrespect for your gaming audience's tastes. In your haste and zeal to reach a larger market, you aren't listening to your current one. Bioware got a free pass with the Mass Effect franchise being a Shooter game with RPG elements tacked on because we figured we'd still have a TRUE RPG like Dragon Age to fall back upon.[/quote]Again, why do you speak as if you speak for everyone? Why are you so self-important?

[quote]Bioware got a pass with turning the Knights of the Old Republic franchise from a TRUE RPG into an MMORPG.[/quote]Yeah, SWTOR isn't a true RPG! It's football! Or, uh, a bear? I forget, but it's definitely one of those things! Are you from Scotland, by chance?

[quote]Griffons aren't synonymous with a game being an RPG.[/quote]I'm willing to bet neither are anything that you believe are synonymous with RPGs.

[quote]Hawke's story was poorly written and rushed. It has innumerable holes and pacing problems. It completely failed to get me emotionally connected with anything that is going on. [/quote]Hawke's story was well written and compellingly paced. It had no plot holes, and completely got me emotionally connected with everything that was going on. I can start to see why you guys act the way you do: it's easier to just state things without any evidence or argument at all.[/quote]

And that you think your number is more significant is just as ignorant. Let's face it, neither camp has any hard numbers to back up the "we're the majority." The closest we have is sales tallies. After the initial pre-order based on DAO's success they drop significantly. Still, not hard evidence, but a hell of a lot more compelling than just saying that the people here on the forums are the loud, whining minority.

Nice fantasies, but hardly closer to being true. We won't know the majority until DA3.[/quote]
Let's put it another way: If everone was happy with DA2 then Mr Laidlaw wouldn't need to start this thread and he wouldn't have any emotional issues with the critique of a vocal minority. [/quote]
I did wonder that myself. Glad that they are taking our concerns to heart. I hope they'll forgive me if I remain hopeful, yet skeptical.[/quote]
Same here: It doesn't mean that I suddenly trust the company. IMO they have to prove themselves all over again. Not implementing stuff that has been promised and not telling the truth is something that is hard to forget. More words don't make me trust him all of a sudden. I need to see it now first.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 28 mai 2011 - 06:41 .

[fightright2]

Zanallen wrote...

I hope we find feral, tainted griffons that we have to put down.

Oooh, the new 'dragons' to fight you mean? I didn't think of that! I was hoping to actually find one and have the ability to summon it as a mage. But yours is interesting.

[erynnar]

TheTranzor wrote...

erynnar wrote...


I agree, the story was a great idea. The excution...not so much.

For Maverick let me put in some plot holes...just so I don't get accused of yelling fire in the DA2 theater of love (and yes, I love that people loved it, but I am tired as hell of being accused of not loving it because the story was really meta and well written).  The three year gaps in Hawke's life, the fade to black where **** in the city boils while Hawke does what? Lies in a coma? Goes off to find that there's an invisible wall that surrounds Kirkwall and it take three years to figure out there is no door and she has been playing a mime in a glass box? I mean, what exactly was she doing?

Oh wait, this is told in flashback by a compulsively lying dwarf! I forgot, he could actually be making the whole damn thing up out of his ass. That is a big plot hole right there (and something I was taught in creative writing class and other professional writers say is a no no. Flashback is very hard to pull off well. Nice try on something new  BioWare, but now I see why my teachers didn't even like flashbacks in small doses).  Neat in concept, sucky in real story value.

Um, let's see...how about my mage Hawke? Oh wow.  Yeah, I cast spells in front of Cullen, a commander of the templars. I am casting spells right and left. Now, you could say that he is being bribed by Varric, but Cullen is so gung-ho after his little stint with Uldread he was sent to Kirkwall. Add to that, if you say "I have friends who are mages!"  And he goes off yelling that mages are not like you and me...afte I have proven I am a bloody mage, as  I stand there with a friggin' magical staff on my back, and robes that look like an Circle mage...yeah. Hawke's story was so well written there absolutely no plot holes ever....EVAH!   Oh please, let's not go into the it was such a tight story. It was a disjointed, barely held together three short story sampler. And for more plot holes...go read my other posts where I mention them (more holes than the Blooming Rose is my running joke).

Look, BioWare tried something new. I liked the idea very much. Or the three ideas, very much. I just wish they had picked one (I personally am dying to play around that thaig and figure out if dwarves did magic at one point) and developed it so my Hawke could be involved in. So, kudos. for trying something different!  I am excited to see what BioWare does with DA3, hopefully taking the best of DAO and DA2 and putting them together.

Very good points, as usual. 

Flashbacks can work in storytelling if executed with care... for the most part, I liked how "Lost" made the flashback a big part of their storytelling foundation for most of the show.  It worked because they executed well.

The concept of having time pass between playable time in game would have worked fine in DA2, and in fact, would have been a great departure from the norm save for one small thing... Nothing changes in Kirkwall between fades!  We have no sense that things have been happening to Hawke during the in-between times.  It's like you say, Hawke was lying in a coma... maybe the story was supposed to be like the movie Awakenings.  You know, Hawke only comes to life for brief moments of lucidity then goes back to just catching a ball while comatose. 

If we got a sense that Kirkwall has changed... vendors in different places, houses not existing where they used to, new houses or new parts of the city being built, Hawke and companions age and change with time, etc.... things would have worked better.  Also, we needed a sense that Hawke was living his/her life between the brief windows of playable time... what's happened with his/her relationships, have friendships with companions grown, or have they grown further apart?  What types of adventures have Hawke and his companions taken part in... what kinds of politics have they been involved with, etc.  We get none of that... it's like those 3 years between fades don't exist for Hawke, which is really disappointing.

Had we got a better sense of time passage and life continuing between those fades, the type of storytelling they went with would have worked a lot better for sure.

Aw, the awesome button flatters me! And your points are salient as well. Yes, it didn't help that neither Kirkwall, her citizens, or the companions and their relationships changed. It felt like months not years. Which would have been fine with me. If this had teken place in a three year block of time? Totallyl believeable.

Oh, another plot hole...Fenris and my Hawke get it on. He freaks, and sticks her red undies on his arm, and the Amell crest on his belt (thank you for not making it a belt buckle like a tombstone for his...well, but what was that suppsed to be any ways? When did he have it made, where? It as romantic and....stalkery). Three years go by. My Hawke, if she has more than a one night boink fest with anyone else, can never reconcile with Fenris. But if she ****s or pines, no problem?

What self respecting woman (and no **** to me is not a bad thing, I use it as a word of empowerment, thnk Isabela) would sit around pining for three years. Even the guy who took my virginity and shattered my heart didn't warrant pining for a year, let alone three.

Again, if this had been three months not three years...I would have found the story less immersion breaking and far more enjoyable.

Edited for spelling! Good lord, time for bed when I leave off letters to simple words. Sweet dreams everyone!

Modifié par erynnar, 28 mai 2011 - 06:45 .

[Cutlass Jack]

Zanallen wrote...

I hope we find feral, tainted griffons that we have to put down.

No it will be a lone newly hatched griffon that will be too small to ride/fly but will be your 'Dog' for DA3.

I will name mine "Merv."

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 28 mai 2011 - 06:45 .

[erynnar]

[quote]AngryFrozenWater wrote...

[quote]erynnar wrote...

[quote]AngryFrozenWater wrote...

[quote]erynnar wrote...

[quote]Maverick827 wrote...

[quote]BeefoTheBold wrote...

With all due respect, your perspective is not the one that matters. The customer's perspective is the important one. [/quote]With no due respect, not only are you incorrect, but you are not all customers and thus probably shouldn't speak as if you are. You know of maybe one thousand disgruntled fans (on the internet, no less) out of millions of consumers: to believe this number is significant is simply ignorant.

[quote]This post addressing the community simply screams that you haven't heard the feedback that you got. Your response is still, "I'm right and you're wrong." [/quote]As opposed to the malcontents on this forum's brilliant argument of "you're wrong and we're right?"

[quote]I love both basketball games and football games but for dramatically different reasons. If I'm in the mood for a good football game, it doesn't matter if the basketball game is the best damn basketball video game ever created if it wasn't the type of game that I wanted to play and bought and this is at the core of your deeply flawed current understanding of what it will take to make the community happy.[/quote]The more apt analogy would be that you wanted a football game, and you bought a football game, but it was professional football and you wanted college football. Actually, the best analogy would be no analogy at all, but instead an actual argument.

[quote]And that's the problem that Bioware refuses to address. You have disrespect for your gaming audience's tastes. In your haste and zeal to reach a larger market, you aren't listening to your current one. Bioware got a free pass with the Mass Effect franchise being a Shooter game with RPG elements tacked on because we figured we'd still have a TRUE RPG like Dragon Age to fall back upon.[/quote]Again, why do you speak as if you speak for everyone? Why are you so self-important?

[quote]Bioware got a pass with turning the Knights of the Old Republic franchise from a TRUE RPG into an MMORPG.[/quote]Yeah, SWTOR isn't a true RPG! It's football! Or, uh, a bear? I forget, but it's definitely one of those things! Are you from Scotland, by chance?

[quote]Griffons aren't synonymous with a game being an RPG.[/quote]I'm willing to bet neither are anything that you believe are synonymous with RPGs.

[quote]Hawke's story was poorly written and rushed. It has innumerable holes and pacing problems. It completely failed to get me emotionally connected with anything that is going on. [/quote]Hawke's story was well written and compellingly paced. It had no plot holes, and completely got me emotionally connected with everything that was going on. I can start to see why you guys act the way you do: it's easier to just state things without any evidence or argument at all.[/quote]

And that you think your number is more significant is just as ignorant. Let's face it, neither camp has any hard numbers to back up the "we're the majority." The closest we have is sales tallies. After the initial pre-order based on DAO's success they drop significantly. Still, not hard evidence, but a hell of a lot more compelling than just saying that the people here on the forums are the loud, whining minority.

Nice fantasies, but hardly closer to being true. We won't know the majority until DA3.[/quote]
Let's put it another way: If everone was happy with DA2 then Mr Laidlaw wouldn't need to start this thread and he wouldn't have any emotional issues with the critique of a vocal minority. [/quote]
I did wonder that myself. Glad that they are taking our concerns to heart. I hope they'll forgive me if I remain hopeful, yet skeptical.[/quote]
Same here: It doesn't mean that I suddenly trust the company. IMO they have to prove themselves all over again. Not implementing stuff that has been promised and not telling the truth is something that is hard to forget. More words don't make me trust him all of a sudden. I need to see it now first.


[/quote]

Yeah, trust is easily broken and repaired with difficulty. I don't hate Mike, nor BioWare. Just skitty about believing that I won't wind up with more of the same.

Oh, and Mike, anyone comes at you with flaming pitchforks, point them my way. I can dual wield Supersoakers. Pitchforks...you're on your own. Or you could throw Tranzor at them. :lol:

[Risax]

I liked DA II, the story telling was good and I loved the new combat system! (Well expect for the fact that there never seemed to be only one wave of enemies).

The recycled maps where annoying though and I hope not to see that again...

As for some other things I missed the item descriptions...I know we got codex entries for some, but I still missed the item descriptions we got in DA:O.
I also missed the fact that you couldn't talk your way out of most fights...

Also, if there is going to be another Dragon Age game were you spend 10 years in a city. Can you make it so that the city changes a bit more, I mean vissually (like the statue apearing at the docks after defeating the Qunari) and opening other parts to the city?

Anyway, glad to see you back in the forums Mike, I can't wait to see the new DLC or expansion you guys are making.

[fightright2]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

I hope we find feral, tainted griffons that we have to put down.

No it will be a lone newly hatched griffon that will be too small to ride/fly but will be your 'Dog' for DA3.

I will name mine "Merv."

LOL. I asked myself, "Why Merv?" Then it hit me. Good one!


Though I do hope we can ride it. It would be cool as a loading picture to each location!

[DragonRageGT]

Borrowing on the analogy from a friend's post, I wanted a Harley of the RPG's and I got a Bike with training wheels! Sure, we still can ride it but...

xxxxxx wrote...
... (on comparing DA2 to TW2)
The difference between riding a bike with training wheels and straddling a Harley between your legs. {smilie}

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

They're ugly. Games tend not to give ugly protagonists.

Torment.

I agree with you, but Torment.

[Serpieri Nei]

RageGT wrote...

Borrowing on the analogy from a friend's post, I wanted a Harley of the RPG's and I got a Bike with training wheels! Sure, we still can ride it but...

xxxxxx wrote...
... (on comparing DA2 to TW2)
The difference between riding a bike with training wheels and straddling a Harley between your legs. {smilie}

Nice Analogy - However Velour Velvet's analogy is pure awesome.

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Torment.

I agree with you, but Torment.

That's true. And it's a shame games don't allow for attractiveness in-game. That allows for good RP.

[Cutlass Jack]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

In Exile wrote...

They're ugly. Games tend not to give ugly protagonists.

Torment.

I agree with you, but Torment.

Correction: Games tend not to give intentionally ugly protaganists.

But I've seen plenty of horrid ones that the developers thought were good looking.

[Cutlass Jack]

In Exile wrote...

That's true. And it's a shame games don't allow for attractiveness in-game. That allows for good RP.

Arcanum did. Separated appearance from personality. Alot of great ideas in that game, even if the execution could have been better.

[TEWR]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

I hope we find feral, tainted griffons that we have to put down.

No it will be a lone newly hatched griffon that will be too small to ride/fly but will be your 'Dog' for DA3.

I will name mine "Merv."

took me a second to realize that. Well played.


and needless to say, I lol'd

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 28 mai 2011 - 07:15 .

[Sharn01]

I will have to take a wait and see approach from now on. I defended what I thought was the direction of the game many times before it was released but was let down when I sat down to play it. Maybe DA3 will win me back over, DA2 was good enough for me to feel that I didnt waste my money for some quick entertainment, but I dont need to watch forums and follow a specific company to get a game that meets those standards, they are a dime a dozen.

[SpiderFan1217]

Wow, look at all the pyramids.

I really liked DA2. It was fun, and.... I ARE WANTING DLC's PLEASE!!

[In Exile]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Arcanum did. Separated appearance from personality. Alot of great ideas in that game, even if the execution could have been better.

I've always been tempted to get it. I've just always heard it was really, really clunky.

RageGT wrote...

Borrowing on the analogy from a friend's
post, I wanted a Harley of the RPG's and I got a Bike with training
wheels! Sure, we still can ride it but...

xxxxxx wrote...
...
(on comparing DA2 to TW2)
The difference between riding a
bike with training wheels and straddling a Harley between your legs.
{smilie}

I think a better parallel is a Harely without an engine (or wheels). Bikes are functional.

And DA2 has potential. It could have been a really good game. It just needed another year of work.

Modifié par In Exile, 28 mai 2011 - 07:22 .

[Everwarden]

Cutlass Jack wrote...


Arcanum did. Separated appearance from personality. Alot of great ideas in that game, even if the execution could have been better.

We'll never, ever see a game with the depth of Arcanum again. 

[Sepewrath]

I'm a big fan of Origins, but its many flaws can not simply be ignored, many of these flaws were addressed and made fixed for the better in DA2. I would hate to see you backslide to a flawed product, just to appease people who fear change. Its true if its not broken, don't fix it. however, there was a lot broken in Origins that needed fixing; it would be a shame to go back to that.

[Cutlass Jack]

Everwarden wrote...
We'll never, ever see a game with the depth of Arcanum again. 

Sad but true. The one game more than any other I'd love to see remade with a decent graphics engine.

But from a pure RP standpoint it was great stuff. Being ugly or attractive, smart or stupid could completely change the game. As did your characters morality and stance on magic vs. technology.

It was completely worth doing one playthrough (not your first though) as an idiot just for the dialogue.

[Xewaka]

In Exile wrote...
They're ugly. Games tend not to give ugly protagonists.

Which is a pity. Ugly characters tend to be more memorable, because they're made or break in their characterization, and thus extra effort is put on giving them rounded, appealing personalities. It's the only thing the character can rely on to reach the player.
Ugly characters are usually the best ones.

Cutlass Jack wrote...
Sad but true. The one game more than any other I'd love to see remade with a decent graphics engine.
But
from a pure RP standpoint it was great stuff. Being ugly or attractive,
smart or stupid could completely change the game. As did your
characters morality and stance on magic vs. technology.
It was completely worth doing one playthrough (not your first though) as an idiot just for the dialogue.../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png

Like Fallout 1 and 2, then.
Or Neverwinter Nights vanilla.
Back when no voice over allowed for extra dialogue silliness.

Modifié par Xewaka, 28 mai 2011 - 08:07 .

[Riloux]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Derrick1011 wrote...
Look at The Witcher 2. That game shows what the medium is capable of, and indeed what you are capable of accomplishing. Your challenge is to exceed the standards set there.

More story. More choices. More quality art. More personality.

We don't get any points for having more controllable party members, or, say, playable genders?

Don't get me wrong, I think TW2 is great, and I hope it does very well. There's not enough fantasy RPG out there.

I just went through the thread and chuckled at this post. Your claim to fame is controllable party members, eh? Why even have companions if all the armor and weapons are restricted to Hawke. Might as well resign them to NPCs.

[Xewaka]

Riloux wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Derrick1011 wrote...
Look at The Witcher 2. That game shows what the medium is capable of, and indeed what you are capable of accomplishing. Your challenge is to exceed the standards set there.
More story. More choices. More quality art. More personality.

We don't get any points for having more controllable party members, or, say, playable genders?
Don't get me wrong, I think TW2 is great, and I hope it does very well. There's not enough fantasy RPG out there.

I just went through the thread and chuckled at this post. Your claim to fame is controllable party members, eh? Why even have companions if all the armor and weapons are restricted to Hawke. Might as well resign them to NPCs.

Companions in Fallout New Vegas are more customizable than DA 2, in equipment terms. (They don't have a character sheet available in NV and that irks me. I like tinkering with character sheets).

[edin_marty]

 I'm very late to this thread and doubt anyone will read it, but still....

I thought DA:2 was a very good game and took the franchise in a much needed direction. I though the combat was engaging and there were enough difficult bosses to offset the easy in-betweens. And I think we can all agree easy kills on meat-and-potatoes badguys has always been an RPG staple. how many goblins did you kill in Neverwinter Nights? 

It's really important to push the genre in new directions. There will always be griefers - people who wish we were still playing Baldur's Gate II. Times have changed, tastes have changed. If you want a tabletop game where you have to remember to drink water and rest to recover health, play one. I can't think of anything more boring, nerdy, and lame. More, it reflects a poorly placed nostalgia. BG2 was good, but it was also fiddly, had unclear quest paths, and, while immersive, didn't have a patch on the immersion you get nowadays with 3D graphics.

Removing FF on spells was a great idea in my opinion. It opened up skills that never got used in previous D&D-based (however loosely!) games. What's the point of 'tactical combat' if it means you only end up using magic missile over and over again because you don't want to risk a fireball killing your party? 

No, I completely disagree with the reviews that knock DA2 for bad combat. I think this is a fresh take on a tired and increasingly irrelevant genre, and it was a massive success. Any consolifiaction has been to the game's benefit, not detriment. RPG snobbery is an epic, epic fail. The only criticism I would mirror is the recycled environments.

I've been RPG gaming for 20 years and I can say, without hyperbole, that this is on my top 10. It's not my favourite, but it's a solid game and I like the direction Bioware have taken the franchise.