1373 réponses à ce sujet

[skyrend]

I appreciate the developer feedback, but I am still scratching my head at the changes made to the series.

You took a game with good combat mechanics and instead of improving responsiveness and balance and adding cool, new effects to it, decided to make it Dynasty Warriors. Whereas DA:O battles felt like strategic set pieces, DA2 felt like an arcade game, and the removal of the isometric view, the optimal view for multi-unit control, with no added benefits to the experience of the game only further reinforces this point. If you want to make a third person action title, fine, do that instead of a clunky faux strategic battle system that feels like neither a good action game nor a good strategic RPG.

You also decided to ditch the globe-spanning epic exploration in favor of a single city. For some reason, you also decided to make that single city as boring and static as possible. Add to the fact that dungeons are re-used so many times that the whole experience quickly feels rote.

All the changes point to a truncated design schedule and design choices meant to appeal to the "awesome" crowd to maximize profits rather than a focus on making a good game. We know gaming is a business and that games are made for profit, but to have it so blatantly put in my face is very off-putting.

So no thanks to trying to sell me DLC (AKA the rest of the story) on this game, and we'll see about your sincerity in your next effort.

[th3warr1or]

Thanks for this response. I think it means a lot.

[DownyTif]

Azzlee wrote...

Mike, first and foremost, well done for the post.

With the nice bit out of the way, down to the nitty girtty.

If you had made this post about a month it would probably be worse than this, but I wanted to express my deep disapointment and regret that you took arguably the best and most epic game I have ever played, and turned it into the mess that was Dragon Age 2. Now I am not foolish enough to say that you must tailor a game to my standards as that would be idiotic, but I am not the only one who thinks that DA2 failed alot of your fanbase.

There can be no excuse for the reused areas (you had the backlash for that when it was done in ME and ME2 vastly improved upon that) or the very clear shortcuts taken with the game. I am one of those who believe "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and this is a philosophy shared by many a developer (Infinity Ward, Bungie, Rockstar to name a few) and look how well CoD, Halo and GTA do when it comes to sales.

You released DA2 off of the back of a very well praised game in DA2, so why you added the dialogue wheel from ME2, and a voiced protagonist, removed customisation from companions reused areas over and over and implemented a quite frankly obvious time sink in the form of waves of enemies is totally beyond me.

A lot of my hate that is and will continue to be directed to Bioware over DA2 is becuase I hold Bioware to a very high standard and whilst I can understand that you want to increase your fanbase and sales as a result, taking the high ground and pretty much squatting on those who fully supported DA:O and purchased DA2 as a result is quite frankly insulting. If DA2 was put out by a different developer, it whould have been mediocre at best, but when something like DA2 comes from Bioware, at best it is simply shocking.

You had an excellent team working on this game Mike, most of all David Gaider who wrote one of the greatest NPC's of all time in Morrigan. It just boggles my mind how the story was a mish mash of awful when you had the same writing team.

If I were you, I would walk up to that ice cream seller John Ricitello and tell him that the fanbase you want isn't call of duty, but the World Of Warcraft crowd.

This. On a note also, please make your experiments in brand new games, not in sequels. I mean...

[Dormiglione]

Sister Helen wrote...

Dormiglione wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

People are excited about griffons because they are supposed to be extinct.

Nah mostly we're pretending to be excited about griffons to annoy the hell out of Wynne.

Agree, would like to see Wynne's face when a griffon land in front of her.

Gotta say, l can still hear Wynne's voice, "Maker's Breath, it's like talking to a child!" from the Griffons conversation.  But I was just messing with her, after the crack about *cough* making too much noise with Zevran in camp.

I loved the conversation between Wynne and Alistair in "Return to Ostagar". Unforgetable moments.

[Dragoonlordz]

YohkoOhno wrote...

Bioware is NOT an RPG company, they are a game company. It's just known for doing good games that deal with that. There is no reason why they should be stuck with a simple expectation. No company wants to get pigeonholed into a single genre.

Bioware makes RPGs though these days they make Action games with RPG elements with exception  of Sonic Chronicles every single game they have made is RPG.

[Dragoonlordz]

One peice of advice I guess could give given DA2 was designed to attract this 'new audience' I suggest they look at the results of "broadening the fanbase" has done to the DA franchise regarding sales of DA2 which clearly showed this has not worked and won't work. So applying the same broadening to DA3 will probably cost them just as badly. My advice is drop this tower of babel idiology and just do what was best at and let that speak for itself, after all thats why EA bought you guys and wasn't because you sucked at what you did, do not throw away your old fanbase to attract this new shiny gimmick EA dangle in front of you.

EA = Judge and Bioware = Guy on trial.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 28 mai 2011 - 02:32 .

[Feanor_II]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

One peice of advice I guess could give given DA2 was designed to attract this 'new audience' I suggest they look at the results of "broadening the fanbase" has done to the DA franchise regarding sales of DA2 which clearly showed this has not worked and won't work. So applying the same broadening to DA3 will probably cost them just as badly. My advice is drop this tower of babel idiology and just do what was best at and let that speak for itself, after all thats why EA bought you guys and wasn't because you sucked at what you did, do not throw away your old fanbase to attract this new shiny gimmick EA dangle in front of you.

aS gAMEiNFORMER SAID: "On all platforms, Dragon Age II caters to an audience that didn’t
connect with Origins, while alienating those who did"

[Maelora]

Heartless, gutlesss, soulless... precisely what I expect from the Bioware of 2011.

You took a first-rate RPG and turned it into a fouth-rate action game, cutting story, character and interaction to the bone.

And now you have the cheek to issue a feeble non-apology because you want to flog some DLC?

Shameless.

Hope this new audience you were after buys your line.

[Dragoonlordz]

Feanor_II wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

One peice of advice I guess could give given DA2 was designed to attract this 'new audience' I suggest they look at the results of "broadening the fanbase" has done to the DA franchise regarding sales of DA2 which clearly showed this has not worked and won't work. So applying the same broadening to DA3 will probably cost them just as badly. My advice is drop this tower of babel idiology and just do what was best at and let that speak for itself, after all thats why EA bought you guys and wasn't because you sucked at what you did, do not throw away your old fanbase to attract this new shiny gimmick EA dangle in front of you.

aS gAMEiNFORMER SAID: "On all platforms, Dragon Age II caters to an audience that didn’t
connect with Origins, while alienating those who did"

And the low sales are the result, my point still stands imho. Funny thing is EA sent me email advertising the strategy guide book for DA2 this morning with like the phrase "Get the most out of the game", clearly they didn't get the memo I dislike DA2 and instead of spending another £15 on a guide book for something that was found lacking in many areas (literally) I don't think I will buy it thanks.

[Razor_Zeng]

Feanor_II wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

One peice of advice I guess could give given DA2 was designed to attract this 'new audience' I suggest they look at the results of "broadening the fanbase" has done to the DA franchise regarding sales of DA2 which clearly showed this has not worked and won't work. So applying the same broadening to DA3 will probably cost them just as badly. My advice is drop this tower of babel idiology and just do what was best at and let that speak for itself, after all thats why EA bought you guys and wasn't because you sucked at what you did, do not throw away your old fanbase to attract this new shiny gimmick EA dangle in front of you.

aS gAMEiNFORMER SAID: "On all platforms, Dragon Age II caters to an audience that didn’t
connect with Origins, while alienating those who did"

Thats me. I struggled to finish one playthrough of DAO. Pretty much had to force myself to play the game to get it over and done with (Awakening was better - got given it as a gift). DA2 I have already beaten twice and am on a third playthrough.

[Dragoonlordz]

Razor_Zeng wrote...

Feanor_II wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

One peice of advice I guess could give given DA2 was designed to attract this 'new audience' I suggest they look at the results of "broadening the fanbase" has done to the DA franchise regarding sales of DA2 which clearly showed this has not worked and won't work. So applying the same broadening to DA3 will probably cost them just as badly. My advice is drop this tower of babel idiology and just do what was best at and let that speak for itself, after all thats why EA bought you guys and wasn't because you sucked at what you did, do not throw away your old fanbase to attract this new shiny gimmick EA dangle in front of you.

aS gAMEiNFORMER SAID: "On all platforms, Dragon Age II caters to an audience that didn’t
connect with Origins, while alienating those who did"

Thats me. I struggled to finish one playthrough of DAO. Pretty much had to force myself to play the game to get it over and done with (Awakening was better - got given it as a gift). DA2 I have already beaten twice and am on a third playthrough.

That's what most of us here had to do with DA2, as you did with DAO we had to force ourselves to finish or even attempt to replay it and a lot of us failed to drag up enough enthusiasm to do so.  So I guess the big question is how many felt that way about DAO compared to how many felt that way about DA2, if sales are to go by then the former new audience wished to attract is smaller or atleast less successfully done and the latter is larger audience that are put off from the changes made.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 28 mai 2011 - 02:51 .

[imbeia]

I love BioWare games. Far more I like the style of the fight in DA2 than in DA:O, but as for romances less is of these cool dialogues (as from Alistair), I am lacking a bit of this freedom of conversations with companions in team camp in DA:O. Perhaps in DA3 will manage a bit to broaden this aspect of the game.
By You (BioWare) I cannot play other games!
Choice of the gender of the hero, charakter creator, plot, great humour, excellent figures and dialogues, this all makes games of other companies seem so boring and wasted.
I am waiting for DLC to DA2, then SWTOR (I hope this year) what will let me survive to ME3: P

[MonkeyLungs]

Sepewrath wrote...

I'm a big fan of Origins, but its many flaws can not simply be ignored, many of these flaws were addressed and made fixed for the better in DA2. I would hate to see you backslide to a flawed product, just to appease people who fear change. Its true if its not broken, don't fix it. however, there was a lot broken in Origins that needed fixing; it would be a shame to go back to that.

DA:O is the more popular game. Higher critic ratings and fan ratings. Better sales. DA2 was the backslide.

[Tommy6860]

DownyTif wrote...

Azzlee wrote...

Mike, first and foremost, well done for the post.

With the nice bit out of the way, down to the nitty girtty.

If you had made this post about a month it would probably be worse than this, but I wanted to express my deep disapointment and regret that you took arguably the best and most epic game I have ever played, and turned it into the mess that was Dragon Age 2. Now I am not foolish enough to say that you must tailor a game to my standards as that would be idiotic, but I am not the only one who thinks that DA2 failed alot of your fanbase.

There can be no excuse for the reused areas (you had the backlash for that when it was done in ME and ME2 vastly improved upon that) or the very clear shortcuts taken with the game. I am one of those who believe "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and this is a philosophy shared by many a developer (Infinity Ward, Bungie, Rockstar to name a few) and look how well CoD, Halo and GTA do when it comes to sales.

You released DA2 off of the back of a very well praised game in DA2, so why you added the dialogue wheel from ME2, and a voiced protagonist, removed customisation from companions reused areas over and over and implemented a quite frankly obvious time sink in the form of waves of enemies is totally beyond me.

A lot of my hate that is and will continue to be directed to Bioware over DA2 is becuase I hold Bioware to a very high standard and whilst I can understand that you want to increase your fanbase and sales as a result, taking the high ground and pretty much squatting on those who fully supported DA:O and purchased DA2 as a result is quite frankly insulting. If DA2 was put out by a different developer, it whould have been mediocre at best, but when something like DA2 comes from Bioware, at best it is simply shocking.

You had an excellent team working on this game Mike, most of all David Gaider who wrote one of the greatest NPC's of all time in Morrigan. It just boggles my mind how the story was a mish mash of awful when you had the same writing team.

If I were you, I would walk up to that ice cream seller John Ricitello and tell him that the fanbase you want isn't call of duty, but the World Of Warcraft crowd.

This. On a note also, please make your experiments in brand new games, not in sequels. I mean...

This^^^, so much. Good point!

[Selenora]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Razor_Zeng wrote...

Feanor_II wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

One peice of advice I guess could give given DA2 was designed to attract this 'new audience' I suggest they look at the results of "broadening the fanbase" has done to the DA franchise regarding sales of DA2 which clearly showed this has not worked and won't work. So applying the same broadening to DA3 will probably cost them just as badly. My advice is drop this tower of babel idiology and just do what was best at and let that speak for itself, after all thats why EA bought you guys and wasn't because you sucked at what you did, do not throw away your old fanbase to attract this new shiny gimmick EA dangle in front of you.

aS gAMEiNFORMER SAID: "On all platforms, Dragon Age II caters to an audience that didn’t
connect with Origins, while alienating those who did"

Thats me. I struggled to finish one playthrough of DAO. Pretty much had to force myself to play the game to get it over and done with (Awakening was better - got given it as a gift). DA2 I have already beaten twice and am on a third playthrough.

That's what most of us here had to do with DA2, as you did with DAO we had to force ourselves to finish or even attempt to replay it and a lot of us failed to drag up enough enthusiasm to do so.  So I guess the big question is how many felt that way about DAO compared to how many felt that way about DA2, if sales are to go by then the former new audience wished to attract is smaller or atleast less successfully done and the latter is larger audience that are put off from the changes made.

I stopped counting my DAO pts after i created my 18nth characther. And i still have some char whose stroy i havent finished yet.
I have 2 pts in DA2 and dont have the will to finish my third.

[Beerfish]

I hope the hell he doesn't take all the feedback from the fans in the non spoiler forums seriously or some of the good to decent parts of DA2 will be totally rehashed because frankly some of the 'large complaints' are preferences, not valid complaints and as we know in this world the people who bellyache the most often get listened to while a large silent majoriity wonders why such and such a feature has been removed or added in the next game version,

For a lot of the real 'critics' on these forums BioWare will not make a good game no matter what.

Fix the stuff that needs fixing (reused areas, mobs, certain part at the end) improve on the stuff that was done well. DA2 had a few bad components but it was not a bad game by any means at all.

[Dragoonlordz]

Beerfish wrote...

I hope the hell he doesn't take all the feedback from the fans in the non spoiler forums seriously or some of the good to decent parts of DA2 will be totally rehashed because frankly some of the 'large complaints' are preferences, not valid complaints and as we know in this world the people who bellyache the most often get listened to while a large silent majoriity wonders why such and such a feature has been removed or added in the next game version,

For a lot of the real 'critics' on these forums BioWare will not make a good game no matter what.

Fix the stuff that needs fixing (reused areas, mobs, certain part at the end) improve on the stuff that was done well. DA2 had a few bad components but it was not a bad game by any means at all.

They should have done that with DAO and NOT DA2 in the first place. Sorry but all the praise style critics are also just basing their praise mostly on preferences so you shouldn't try to taint one group as 'preferences' when in reality so is the other side doing the same. As for this "silent majority" the fans in favour of the game have been far from silent, if you feel passionately about something learn to speak up because if you don't then I doubt very much you cared that much to begin with.

I have a dislike for this whole attitude of don't go back or do a 180 turn around because...

What do the ones who say things like that think the others fans wanted in he first place, no original fan of DAO (you know the ones that made DA franchise a large success in the first place) wanted a 180 turnaround on DAO and now that they did that with DA2 the ones who like the new style are saying don't do a 180 on DA2. We never wanted a 180 to begin with so don't expect sympathy if we want to undo the 180 that was not asked for but happened in the first place...

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 28 mai 2011 - 03:14 .

[Beerfish]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

I hope the hell he doesn't take all the feedback from the fans in the non spoiler forums seriously or some of the good to decent parts of DA2 will be totally rehashed because frankly some of the 'large complaints' are preferences, not valid complaints and as we know in this world the people who bellyache the most often get listened to while a large silent majoriity wonders why such and such a feature has been removed or added in the next game version,

For a lot of the real 'critics' on these forums BioWare will not make a good game no matter what.

Fix the stuff that needs fixing (reused areas, mobs, certain part at the end) improve on the stuff that was done well. DA2 had a few bad components but it was not a bad game by any means at all.

They should have done that with DAO and NOT DA2 in the first place. Sorry but all the praise style critics are also just basing their praise mostly on preferences so you shouldn't try to taint one group as 'preferences' when in reality so is the other side doing the same. As for this "silent majority" the fans in favour of the game have been far from silent, if you feel passionately about something learn to speak up because if you don't then I doubt very much you cared that much to begin with.

Nonsense, if a person didn't like DAO why the hell was the same person buying DA2 in the 1st place?  Especially when many features and elements were known before the game actually came out.

You can disguinish 'preferences' from 'deficiencies' by looking at what all the fans say.  You take the common complaints that bothered people the most and conclude those are issues to be corrected.

No it is not up to people who enjoy the game to try to sift through the tons of idiotic critical post and down right troll posts to actually find some that make sense and are worthy of debating.  You show that you care about the game by playing it multiple times.

[Elhanan]

Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. - Benjamin Franklin

[neppakyo]

MonkeyLungs wrote...
DA:O is the more popular game. Higher critic ratings and fan ratings. Better sales. DA2 was the backslide.

I do hope that message is sent to the devs. What made DAO so popular? What made DA2 suck qunari ball sack?

[Ohpus]

JohnEpler wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

lobi wrote...

Hard to take you seriously Mr Laidlaw.

It's the clown makeup, isn't it? Damn it, I knew that was a bad idea.

I said, 'Mike, if you set the unicycle on fire, you'll seem cool and dangerous'.

But nooo. Stupid OHSA.

Dragon Age III: Clown School.

[Droopy Dog voice]

Oh. The Horror.

[/Droopy Dog voice]



On a serious note. Any plans to retrofit what is widely viewed as an "incomplete" game through the Black Emporium (or otherwise) for free? As someone who preordered in 3 months in advance based on the strength of DA:O and Bioware in general I was hugely disappointed in what was delivered.

It takes years to gain a loyal customer, and only a few minutes to lose one.

[NeoNight1986]

While I am one of the more "Hateres" one might say. I am glad to see your two cents on these forums. I am also glad to see things approached in such a professional manor, It does show abit of character.
I will not likely purchase any of the DLC's that pertain to DA2 with out lots of research. If i do not think you did indeed learn, then i wont buy.
It is my sincerest hope that moving forward things are learned, things are improved and that no where near these mistakes are ever made again. That DA3 will learn what made DAO AND DA2 amazing and work to bring something that not only you and your team is proud to make, but also us the fans are proud to purchase and tell our friends what they are missing out on. to tell our tale, and listen to them speak of there "Grey Warden", or "Hawk".

Here is to moving forward. and seeing what the future brings.

[Dragoonlordz]

Beerfish wrote...

Nonsense, if a person didn't like DAO why the hell was the same person buying DA2 in the 1st place?  Especially when many features and elements were known before the game actually came out.

You can disguinish 'preferences' from 'deficiencies' by looking at what all the fans say.  You take the common complaints that bothered people the most and conclude those are issues to be corrected.

No it is not up to people who enjoy the game to try to sift through the tons of idiotic critical post and down right troll posts to actually find some that make sense and are worthy of debating.  You show that you care about the game by playing it multiple times.

What are you babbling about... What was promised was not what most of us perceived as got in the final product, quotes such as saying while there are some changes the original fans of DAO won't be dissapointed as we kept enough to most likley keep them happy. Some people bought on hope that all the negative aspects talked about were over-exaggerations or maybe wouldn't end up that way in the final product. Some people avoided a lot of interviews and videos because they contain spoilers, relying on the fact it's called DA"2" that it will follow on from DAO and not be a 180 degree turn around and your asking them not to do that to DA2... Just like we never wanted to be done with DAO.

Like I said they should of fixed what was only needed to be fixed in DAO your arguing about they shouldn't do 180 on your beloved DA2 is exactly what they did on DAO. You show you care by buying the game (contribute financially) and then to the debating (contribute verbally in discussions) not sitting in your room alone playing it more than once.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 28 mai 2011 - 03:38 .

[Dormiglione]

Elhanan wrote...

Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. - Benjamin Franklin

And still you need the wisdom to distinguish which critic is valid or you just close your eyes.

[Majical]

Dragons of appreciation for this Sir Laidlaw, I know the team continuously monitors the forums and so it is always re-assuring to receive feedback from none other than yourself. 

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
I hope that in the future we'll be able to discuss how we're addressing your concerns and even solicit feedback from you on future plans in the process

I love this.
My hopes now are that you can effectively apply the previously and future given community feedback and analysis by the BioWare team to create a phenomenal third (and many more) installments. 
P.s. Griffins