1373 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

- It was supposed to be a personal story but didn't feel like it.  It should have started in Lothering to introduce you to your family, develop it some, and connect the games for people who played the first.  Then in Kirkwall show how Hawke made his/her name doing small quests first, then being trusted with bigger ones.  As mentioned earlier, develop the family.

Very much agreed. Because as of yet, we are being told that Hawke and family lost a life we never see. That loss is thus insignificant to me. In Origins on the otherhand, every Origin has us experience life before being a Warden, then falling to the lowest lows then becoming a Warden. It created drama and sense of loss, notwithstanding plot hammering in certain cases (mage origin).

In DA2, the game expects me to care about something they are telling me and not showing me and it's supposed to be the main premise of beginning of the game.

agreed KoP. Every time I start a new game I keep thinking of the one scenario I had carefully planned out that would've made me feel connected to whichever sibling I would've lost, to my life in Lothering, to the hopelessness that was the Battle of Ostagar. Just so many things that could've made the beginning so amazing. So... genuinely awesome.

[Master Shiori]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Do you guys think we should see more class specific kills (I only know of the Rogue's slaver kill)? And class specific ways of using the murder knife?

Yes please!

The only other occasions were mage Hawke breaking Idunna's spell and warrior Hawke punching the Ancient Rock Wraith in Primeval Thaig.

More of these sort of "extra" actions would have been great. I'd like to see them spread throughout DA3, in the same way paragon/renegade interupts were spread through ME2 and available at appropriate moments.

[Ottemis]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

- It was supposed to be a personal story but didn't feel like it.  It should have started in Lothering to introduce you to your family, develop it some, and connect the games for people who played the first.  Then in Kirkwall show how Hawke made his/her name doing small quests first, then being trusted with bigger ones.  As mentioned earlier, develop the family.

Very much agreed. Because as of yet, we are being told that Hawke and family lost a life we never see. That loss is thus insignificant to me. In Origins on the otherhand, every Origin has us experience life before being a Warden, then falling to the lowest lows then becoming a Warden. It created drama and sense of loss, notwithstanding plot hammering in certain cases (mage origin).

In DA2, the game expects me to care about something they are telling me and not showing me and it's supposed to be the main premise of beginning of the game.

We never see? I don't much agree, in Origins after having quested there, Lothering is said to be utterly overrun by darkspawn, the first to fall HARD and afterwards no longer accessible. That gives us a fair idea of where Hawke came from no?

Don't get me wrong though, we skip through the beginning fairly fast, I agree. But meh, don't have such an issue with it combining the knowledge from Origins with the backstory provided in 2.

Modifié par Ottemis, 28 mai 2011 - 06:55 .

[TEWR]

Ottemis wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

- It was supposed to be a personal story but didn't feel like it.  It should have started in Lothering to introduce you to your family, develop it some, and connect the games for people who played the first.  Then in Kirkwall show how Hawke made his/her name doing small quests first, then being trusted with bigger ones.  As mentioned earlier, develop the family.

Very much agreed. Because as of yet, we are being told that Hawke and family lost a life we never see. That loss is thus insignificant to me. In Origins on the otherhand, every Origin has us experience life before being a Warden, then falling to the lowest lows then becoming a Warden. It created drama and sense of loss, notwithstanding plot hammering in certain cases (mage origin).

In DA2, the game expects me to care about something they are telling me and not showing me and it's supposed to be the main premise of beginning of the game.

We never see? I don't much agree, in Origins Lothering is said to be utterly overrun by darkspawn, the first to fall HARD and afterwards no longer accessible. That gives us a fair idea of where Hawke came from no?

Don't get me wrong though, we skip through the beginning fairly fast, I agree. But meh, don't have such an issue with it combining the knowledge from Origins with the backstory provided in 2.

We should've experienced life both before the Battle of Ostagar and during. I'll try and find the scenario I thought up that could've worked on many levels.

[MonkeyLungs]

I thought people with so called 'ADD' just liked to cry to get stimulants.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ottemis wrote...

We never see? I don't much agree, in Origins Lothering is said to be utterly overrun by darkspawn, the first to fall HARD and afterwards no longer accessible. That gives us a fair idea of where Hawke came from no?

It doesn't (or shouldn't) work that way. It's supposed to be Hawke's personal story. It should not need to rely on Origins to start his story adequately.

Yea duh Lothering gets overrun. But I had no idea what kind of life he / she led. So why should I care?
I tried caring throughout the entire game, but it was not helping me either.

[MonkeyLungs]

Ottemis wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

- It was supposed to be a personal story but didn't feel like it.  It should have started in Lothering to introduce you to your family, develop it some, and connect the games for people who played the first.  Then in Kirkwall show how Hawke made his/her name doing small quests first, then being trusted with bigger ones.  As mentioned earlier, develop the family.

Very much agreed. Because as of yet, we are being told that Hawke and family lost a life we never see. That loss is thus insignificant to me. In Origins on the otherhand, every Origin has us experience life before being a Warden, then falling to the lowest lows then becoming a Warden. It created drama and sense of loss, notwithstanding plot hammering in certain cases (mage origin).

In DA2, the game expects me to care about something they are telling me and not showing me and it's supposed to be the main premise of beginning of the game.

We never see? I don't much agree, in Origins after having quested there, Lothering is said to be utterly overrun by darkspawn, the first to fall HARD and afterwards no longer accessible. That gives us a fair idea of where Hawke came from no?

Don't get me wrong though, we skip through the beginning fairly fast, I agree. But meh, don't have such an issue with it combining the knowledge from Origins with the backstory provided in 2.

DA2 doesn't show you Ostagar or Lothering. It's all just tell, no show. The beginning of DA2 was so rubbish it alomst put me off playing the game. The demo is the reason I canceled pre-order. Luckily it got better but the way DA2 starts is seriously underwhelming.

[Ottemis]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

I thought people with so called 'ADD' just liked to cry to get stimulants.

lol..

Modifié par Ottemis, 28 mai 2011 - 07:06 .

[Ottemis]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Ottemis wrote...

We never see? I don't much agree, in Origins Lothering is said to be utterly overrun by darkspawn, the first to fall HARD and afterwards no longer accessible. That gives us a fair idea of where Hawke came from no?

It doesn't (or shouldn't) work that way. It's supposed to be Hawke's personal story. It should not need to rely on Origins to start his story adequately.

Yea duh Lothering gets overrun. But I had no idea what kind of life he / she led. So why should I care?
I tried caring throughout the entire game, but it was not helping me either.

Yeh I suppose you got a point there.
But I didn't have much issues feeling connected to Hawke. Though yes, arguably it's hard to feel the loss of the sibling that early in the game with the info you get. I only ever moarned that 'loss' in later playthroughs where I'd experienced them both in other playthroughs.
Also I have to agree the beginning could have been alot stronger, I don't know wether i'd have needed to see where they came from though.

Modifié par Ottemis, 28 mai 2011 - 07:03 .

[Atakuma]

It's sad that any improvements Bioware implement, will require me to shell out more money for a 45 minute DLC, just to see a glimpse of what the game should have been.

[In Exile]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Very much agreed. Because as of yet, we are being told that Hawke and family lost a life we never see. That loss is thus insignificant to me. In Origins on the otherhand, every Origin has us experience life before being a Warden, then falling to the lowest lows then becoming a Warden. It created drama and sense of loss, notwithstanding plot hammering in certain cases (mage origin).

In DA2, the game expects me to care about something they are telling me and not showing me and it's supposed to be the main premise of beginning of the game.

If we started in Lothering, we could have begun to relate to Carver and Bethany, as well as Leandra. Seeing the family dynamic, then mourning Malcom (I would have set it at the anniversary of his death) would have made future events that happened to the family much more visceral.

Especially what happens while escaping the darkspawn.

[TEWR]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

I thought people with so called 'ADD' just liked to cry to get stimulants.

I'm trying to remember what my nephew told me. I think he said that doctors have said people with ADD are now so increasingly prevalent that it's not considered a disorder anymore. I'll have to ask him about it next time I go to work.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Alistairlover94 wrote...
I cared more about the Cousland family, Tabris losing her fiancee, Mahariel having to be seperated from her clan, and Aeducan bieng sold out by her traitorous outsmarted by her genius brother, than I ever did for DA2's shallow and whiny family members, because I got to experience them losing everything they've ever loved first-hand. Just my personal opinion, of course

Fixed something.

Showing us Hawke in Lothering pre-Ostagar or at least imediately after, would have served two purposes.
First, connect us with our family more, especially if one of the siblings has to die. Origins didn't do it perfect, but the death of Fergus' family and Bryce and Elaenor impacted me much more than say Bethany dying. It only affected me in so far that I dislike seeing cute girls die, get hurt or cry (don't care as much for ugly people...that is a joke).

And it would have given more meaning to Hawke bein a refugee. A refugee is more than a person fleeing something. It's a person who lost something as well. That loss needs to be shown. If it was, I might have started by caring for Hawke. The rest of the game might still make me dislike him, but at least I'd start with a positive note. Or would that make me more dissapointed?

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 28 mai 2011 - 07:06 .

[Aaleel]

Just imagine if in Lothering, you were living with your family and had Templars come in seacrh of Bethany, and you had to hide her, and got to experience just how bad life was hiding from Templars, and how scared she was of being taken to the circle.

So Spoilers:

When it did happen depending on your choices, you know what shes going through. And if it did happen, have you go visit your sister in the circle and see how she's living. Make it personal. They just wasted so many things they could have done.

Have a converstaion with your mother about how concerned she is for Bethany being in the circle when you come home one time.  Get rid of some of those interactions with the dog, and have some with your family.

Modifié par Aaleel, 28 mai 2011 - 07:07 .

[In Exile]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
all of these were definitely good things. Having Varric BS your way out of things was great.

Though at least 1 or 2 times it wouldn't feel right. During Varric's Family Matters quest I picked "What do you think Anders?" but all that Hawke did was stay silent as if he was telepathically communicating with both Varric and Anders.

Didn't Hawke look at Anders? I thought that was a "You do something" glare. Can't recall. I got the most awesome button bug where pressing play doesn't actually start the game.

Do you guys think we should see more class specific kills (I only know of the Rogue's slaver kill)? And class specific ways of using the murder knife?

Yes. I want non-combat dialogue skills in. Similar to the way SPECIAL implemented them, actually. Icons can serve as the stand-in for [persuade] or [science 64/100].

Yes to class skills, as well. It is something that diversifies your character.

[Ottemis]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

MonkeyLungs wrote...

I thought people with so called 'ADD' just liked to cry to get stimulants.

I'm trying to remember what my nephew told me. I think he said that doctors have said people with ADD are now so increasingly prevalent that it's not considered a disorder anymore. I'll have to ask him about it next time I go to work.

The social aspect is rough as i've heard from people with ADD.

[Cutlass Jack]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

MonkeyLungs wrote...

I thought people with so called 'ADD' just liked to cry to get stimulants.

I'm trying to remember what my nephew told me. I think he said that doctors have said people with ADD are now so increasingly prevalent that it's not considered a disorder anymore. I'll have to ask him about it next time I go to work.

Someone tried to explain ADD to me once but I wasn't paying attention.

[erynnar]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

MonkeyLungs wrote...

I thought people with so called 'ADD' just liked to cry to get stimulants.

I'm trying to remember what my nephew told me. I think he said that doctors have said people with ADD are now so increasingly prevalent that it's not considered a disorder anymore. I'll have to ask him about it next time I go to work.

Someone tried to explain ADD to me once but I wasn't paying attention.

Sorry, did you say something? I was distracted....:wub: Wait, I thought I heard something about rapiers?

[StingingVelvet]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
There's lots of refinement to do, and some missteps that we need to address, but I think that there are a number of things DAII did right, or, possibly, almost right. Player VO, rivalry, and the responsiveness of combat all fall into that category for me (so, no, we won't be going back to a silent protagonist, for instance).

I think most people dislike the Player VO for two reasons: 1) it came with limiting character options to male or female human, and 2) the paraphrasing is not always correct and is sometimes outright misleading.

Not trying to make another silly comparison between the games but The Witcher 2 does actually show that you can have paraphrasing that is not misleading.  I'm toward the end of that game and have never had something I clicked on come out differently than I expected, but that happened in DA2 like a dozen times.  Work on that and I won't complan about Player VO (much).

That said games like Fallout 3 and the original Dragon Age are massively successful without Player VO, so I don't know why you think it is so neccessary.  It kind of feeds back into something I think is one of Bioware's core problems lately, which is that you guys are focusing more on being cinematic than on gameplay.  Player VO, no companion armor customization, all roads leading to the same ending, less significant choices, paraphrasing... it all seems like it was born of cinematic intentions rather than gameplay ones.  In several examples it is outright detrimental to gameplay for cinemtatic reasons, which is not where I think videogames and RPGs in particular should go.

[LobselVith8]

Filament wrote...

Rumor has it DA3 has you as a Seeker, so if that ends up being true, you'd probably be a "sanctioned mage" like in Origins.

Considering that mages are forced to live in the Circles of Magi by the Chantry and the Order of Templars, why would they give any degree of authority to a mage? The only "free" mages we are aware of in Andrastian society who aren't apostates are Grey Wardens. I don't imagine the Chantry giving a mage authority over templars.

[RazorARTEMIS]

I like the character Hawke. The game also more cinematic and the dynamic of Hawke's personality is best. I'm guessing this game is the origin story of Hawke and I would love to see Hawke in DA 3. Just make sure to get rid of recycling and maybe for companion armor, make it more variety for each character but have some restriction. Eg: Mage just can wear robes. We saw in Mass Effect 2 that the music play huge part in it's epicness and this can be applied in next DA games. DA 2's music just  'OK' for me. And different body type in character creation would be nice.

[John Epler]

And I think we've reached the point where we're no longer on the topic of the thread, but merely discussing various aspects of the game. Since we have numerous threads for that already, locking.