130 réponses à ce sujet

[Huntress]

In Exile wrote...

Zanallen wrote...
Well, for the Warden, the obvious choice would be to just have them head to the Deep Roads and never be seen again, presumably to die in battle.

Nope. You'll quickly get a "My Warden saved Avernus to be free from the taint!" reply.

The best solution would be to have no epilogue for the Warden.

Ohh please with the taint you can live 30 years, do any of you stop for a second and think HOW long is 30 years? To me 30 years is long enough to adventures/romances and have a heck of life before the calling.

The archemeon stole 1 year from the warden life, now tell me why any of them been so young and full of life want to go to the deep road to die??

[Pudricks]

It feels like they're dragging it all out like a season of LOST where nothing is really at all explained but we keep watching, hoping and waiting for some answers.

[In Exile]

Huntress wrote...
Ohh please with the taint you can live 30 years, do any of you stop for a second and think HOW long is 30 years? To me 30 years is long enough to adventures/romances and have a heck of life before the calling.

The archemeon stole 1 year from the warden life, now tell me why any of them been so young and full of life want to go to the deep road to die??

30 years is long. 50 is longer. 60 is even longer. Why should anyone be happy with an expiration date?

[kaiki01]

Luke Barrett wrote...

Closure does not necessarily mean you need to visibly see The Warden or Champion again, simply that you know what exactly happened to them. Obviously the visual would be nice but it isn't necessary (I don't think) to achieve what the OP was looking for.

Come on, there are lots of things in DA that are not "necessary" but are enjoyable and provide weight to the game. In Origins it wasn't necessary for the post-kill the archdemon scene in the throne room. But it provided an great ending that help provide the sense that your character had done something amazing that this fictional world would remember. I am sure I could go through out DA:O and take every little bit that is not "necessary" for DA:O to function as a game, it would be a worse game for it.

You are correct that to provide closure the player does not have to see or experiance it. It could be a journal entry saying "Okay player, Morrigan is an archdemon who ate the Warden. The baby is going to destoy the world. End." But at that point so much more could be done. A player could read a journal and play through a scene as the Warden and let the player experiance first hand that closure.

I apologize if I am getting off the point. It seems when "nice but not necessary" are the terms to frame the conversation, it is a negative. Why not "visual would be nice, but can we do something better?" Epilogues at the end of DA:O or BG2 are good examples where it was
1) not visual
2) nice
3) not necessary

So I ask you Bioware, please do what is not necessary and blow us away

[AngelicMachinery]

Greenleaf6 wrote...

It feels like they're dragging it all out like a season of LOST where nothing is really at all explained but we keep watching, hoping and waiting for some answers.

Flemeth= Hurley bird.

[Harcken]

This OP is spot on; some closure to plot threads would be nice. At this point, DAO and DA2 have hundreds of plot threads and characters that just vanish and are thrown in the cabinet for later. It would be nice to have a complete story from start to finish and then throw in a thread in the epilogue or near the end to keep us interested for sequels.

[Zanallen]

The Warden and Hawke were both hunted down and killed by the secret Emperor of Tevinter.

[thenemesis77]

Luke Barrett wrote...

Closure does not necessarily mean you need to visibly see The Warden or Champion again, simply that you know what exactly happened to them. Obviously the visual would be nice but it isn't necessary (I don't think) to achieve what the OP was looking for.

So, Barrett....you are saying we won't see them again? That is great to know, keeps my hopes that are down about about that at where I thought it would lead to. Thanks, again.

[thenemesis77]

VictorianTrash wrote...

Actually, bad news: I got a thinly-veiled 'no' to the Warden from a message I shot to Laidlaw:

VictorianTrash
9:08 PM 2011-05-26

Mr. Laidlaw:

Your latest thread has me interested, especially your comment (in one of your subsequent posts) about the VOs being perpetuated in the series. That said, do we have a chance of seeing The Warden again? I didn't want to turn your 'Thank You' thread into a Q&A and throw it off-track, so I figured I'd drop you a line and hope for a reply.

I don't expect an outright yes or no, just something satiating to go on. With the addition of a voiced protagonist, I don't see how it's likely. But I'm holding out hope. Anything you can divulge? Ambiguous answers are fine. (:

Thanks!

Wish you luck on the rest of your projects.

Mike Laidlaw
9:53 PM 2011-05-26
I would suggest that it's unlikely, but not impossible. The core reason is that with the face system redesigned, there could be cosmetic differences, and while people might accept some minor changes in Alistair/Zev/Leli, I think that -any- deviation in the character you may have spent hours crafting does a disservice to that character.

So while it could be cool, I don't think we could pull it off as well as we would want to; and the voice thing is problematic.



This post isn't meant to spark animosity between the pro-Warden and pro-Hawke parties and turn the thread into another battle of attrition; nor was it meant to disparage Laidlaw in some catty, underhanded way. I just thought I'd share, as the information seemed relevant to the discussion. I'm a smidge disappointed by the news, but I expected this was the case. At the very least, we'll get closure for Hawke. The Warden, unfortunately, will likely vanish into nothingness like Revan.

Thats just damn great, no Warden, I guess I should thank this team for throwing the Warden and his/her story under the bus. I can't put it into words about how they really taken out a good part of this world that they want it around and that be the case, just come out and say it in a thread, let us know. Mike, David and the rest of your team, tell us and that is all you have to do, let us know. Don't you  play on peoples  hopes of a Warden return, just say he/she is gone, just let people off the damn hoo., I am sick of this ring around the roses game they play. At least this will make up "MY" mind on the reast of your games/DLC.

[Merced652]

Luke Barrett wrote...

Closure does not necessarily mean you need to visibly see The Warden or Champion again, simply that you know what exactly happened to them. Obviously the visual would be nice but it isn't necessary (I don't think) to achieve what the OP was looking for.

Idunno man, i have this fear that a wild snorlax will appear and hand wave away any closure that might have previously been offered.

Modifié par Merced652, 28 mai 2011 - 12:29 .

[Huntress]

In Exile wrote...

Huntress wrote...
Ohh please with the taint you can live 30 years, do any of you stop for a second and think HOW long is 30 years? To me 30 years is long enough to adventures/romances and have a heck of life before the calling.

The archemeon stole 1 year from the warden life, now tell me why any of them been so young and full of life want to go to the deep road to die??

30 years is long. 50 is longer. 60 is even longer. Why should anyone be happy with an expiration date?

Exactly!!! but because of players that did 1 game and in it killed the Warden the story ended after the archdemon died.

I know exactly why the warden is not coming back and you can bet is not because of my endings, is because others decided to kill the warden and nothing also is acceptable. Now they want to do the same with Hawk, "is not dead but but I hate it for so and so NOW move it out!! and they are giving hells to who ever likes any of this characters.

It will never stop, sadly all I can do is  keep having fun with whatever they hate. To all of you try and do the same, life is very short as it is, living in a world of missery and viles is not the best way to live.

Oh and please Bioware if there is a DA3, I want Voice main chracter is just too good to let it go now! and I love fenris.. not as much as Alistair but, well you know!

[BeefoTheBold]

thenemesis77 wrote...

VictorianTrash wrote...

Actually, bad news: I got a thinly-veiled 'no' to the Warden from a message I shot to Laidlaw:

VictorianTrash
9:08 PM 2011-05-26

Mr. Laidlaw:

Your latest thread has me interested, especially your comment (in one of your subsequent posts) about the VOs being perpetuated in the series. That said, do we have a chance of seeing The Warden again? I didn't want to turn your 'Thank You' thread into a Q&A and throw it off-track, so I figured I'd drop you a line and hope for a reply.

I don't expect an outright yes or no, just something satiating to go on. With the addition of a voiced protagonist, I don't see how it's likely. But I'm holding out hope. Anything you can divulge? Ambiguous answers are fine. (:

Thanks!

Wish you luck on the rest of your projects.

Mike Laidlaw
9:53 PM 2011-05-26
I would suggest that it's unlikely, but not impossible. The core reason is that with the face system redesigned, there could be cosmetic differences, and while people might accept some minor changes in Alistair/Zev/Leli, I think that -any- deviation in the character you may have spent hours crafting does a disservice to that character.

So while it could be cool, I don't think we could pull it off as well as we would want to; and the voice thing is problematic.



This post isn't meant to spark animosity between the pro-Warden and pro-Hawke parties and turn the thread into another battle of attrition; nor was it meant to disparage Laidlaw in some catty, underhanded way. I just thought I'd share, as the information seemed relevant to the discussion. I'm a smidge disappointed by the news, but I expected this was the case. At the very least, we'll get closure for Hawke. The Warden, unfortunately, will likely vanish into nothingness like Revan.

Thats just damn great, no Warden, I guess I should thank this team for throwing the Warden and his/her story under the bus. I can't put it into words about how they really taken out a good part of this world that they want it around and that be the case, just come out and say it in a thread, let us know. Mike, David and the rest of your team, tell us and that is all you have to do, let us know. Don't you  play on peoples  hopes of a Warden return, just say he/she is gone, just let people off the damn hoo., I am sick of this ring around the roses game they play. At least this will make up "MY" mind on the reast of your games/DLC.

Not the choice of wording that I would have used, but more or less my thoughts.

The great part of Origins is that you really did get to actually, y'know, CHOOSE things. The potential that could have been built off of the dark ritual thing alone was enormous. Instead we get repeated teasers of things like a five minute cameo of Flemeth in DA2 and a couple of throwaway references to the Warden here and there and otherwise the events of DAO get zero respect.

Hell, even in Awakenings it took a freaking patch to ensure you got a lettea little shorter than this post from your love interest from DAO to explain why they weren't there with you.

You can do things the Mass Effect way and have a voiced, written protagonist like Shepard. You can do things like the Dragon Age Origins way where you have actual choice. Either can work and be a lot of fun.

But damnit, don't switch back and forth between the two and don't do it mid-effing stream.

Modifié par BeefoTheBold, 28 mai 2011 - 01:25 .

[Robtachi]

I've gotta be honest, I wouldn't give a crap if my (living) Warden was given a voice and the face mold was adapted somewhat to fit in Dragon Age 3 if that meant having a party in some way comprised of my Warden and my Hawke. That is absolutely the best possible scenario for DA3 and DAMN THE CONSEQUENCES!

Remember when we used to pick from a few different voice banks for our PCs in Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, etc.? I would have zero complaints about doing that again if it meant playing my Warden again in concert with Hawke in an overarching plot that ties it all together.

[Saintthanksgiving]

Give up the dream folks. Laidlaw dumped the warden with Jimmy Hoffa... he aint comin back. He wasn't awesome enough. I hear the protagonist in DA3 is even MORE Emo than Fenris, carries a lightsaber, and does flips like Yoda from the star wars prequels.... which is fitting because the plot of those movies showed the same level of thought and quality as DA2.

[Huntress]

Robtachi wrote...

I've gotta be honest, I wouldn't give a crap if my (living) Warden was given a voice and the face mold was adapted somewhat to fit in Dragon Age 3 if that meant having a party in some way comprised of my Warden and my Hawke. That is absolutely the best possible scenario for DA3 and DAMN THE CONSEQUENCES!

Remember when we used to pick from a few different voice banks for our PCs in Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, etc.? I would have zero complaints about doing that again if it meant playing my Warden again in concert with Hawke in an overarching plot that ties it all together.

I wouldn't give a crap either, but many players that did the Ultimate sacrifie is gonna cry about it, it doesn't matter what you're warden did or if is a life, their ends is what matters and DAO is too long and boring for them to make a warden that survive the blight.

Well at least I like hawk and I'll stay with this character for a year until a new one show up, sadly the ones who doesn't like hawk are going to be very bored for a year.. well there is always .. crap forgot that game again.. anyway have fun! I know I will.

Modifié par Huntress, 28 mai 2011 - 01:39 .

[Robtachi]

Huntress wrote...

Robtachi wrote...

I've gotta be honest, I wouldn't give a crap if my (living) Warden was given a voice and the face mold was adapted somewhat to fit in Dragon Age 3 if that meant having a party in some way comprised of my Warden and my Hawke. That is absolutely the best possible scenario for DA3 and DAMN THE CONSEQUENCES!

Remember when we used to pick from a few different voice banks for our PCs in Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, etc.? I would have zero complaints about doing that again if it meant playing my Warden again in concert with Hawke in an overarching plot that ties it all together.

I wouldn't give a crap either, but many players that did the Ultimate sacrifie is gonna cry about it, it doesn't matter what you're warden did or if is a life, their ends is what matters and DAO is too long and boring for them to make a warden that survive the blight.

Well at least I like hawk and I'll stay with this character for a year until a new one show up, sadly the ones who doesn't like hawk are going to be very bored for a year.. well there is always .. crap forgot that game again.. anyway have fun! I know I will.

I feel like that's the beauty of a joint adventure between the Warden and Hawke.  If the Warden did sacrifice him/herself, you've still got good ol' Hawke to carry on the journey, perhaps along with some returning party members in the Warden's place.

How's THAT for choices branching into different play experiences?

[kaiki01]

Robtachi wrote...

Huntress wrote...

Robtachi wrote...

I've gotta be honest, I wouldn't give a crap if my (living) Warden was given a voice and the face mold was adapted somewhat to fit in Dragon Age 3 if that meant having a party in some way comprised of my Warden and my Hawke. That is absolutely the best possible scenario for DA3 and DAMN THE CONSEQUENCES!

Remember when we used to pick from a few different voice banks for our PCs in Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, etc.? I would have zero complaints about doing that again if it meant playing my Warden again in concert with Hawke in an overarching plot that ties it all together.

I wouldn't give a crap either, but many players that did the Ultimate sacrifie is gonna cry about it, it doesn't matter what you're warden did or if is a life, their ends is what matters and DAO is too long and boring for them to make a warden that survive the blight.

Well at least I like hawk and I'll stay with this character for a year until a new one show up, sadly the ones who doesn't like hawk are going to be very bored for a year.. well there is always .. crap forgot that game again.. anyway have fun! I know I will.

I feel like that's the beauty of a joint adventure between the Warden and Hawke.  If the Warden did sacrifice him/herself, you've still got good ol' Hawke to carry on the journey, perhaps along with some returning party members in the Warden's place.

How's THAT for choices branching into different play experiences?

Have the adventure take place in the Black City & Beyond. Even if your Warden died, they can still team up

[Zanallen]

Personally, I prefer the ambiguity. It allows me to come up with my own epilogue for what happened to the Warden. He has vanished? Good, then I can decide where he's gone and what he's doing.

[Dio Demon]

This opinion is an exception to the head exploding rule Crazy Eyed One 1:1

[DA: Origin Spolier]Getting rid of the Warden kinda eliminates the purpose of the die or have a god like baby child with Morrigan. The US/OGB choice seems like die herioically or live and run the risk of an powerful enemy/ally in future adventures. But if they get rid of the Warden it seems like you basically choose between powerful enemy/ally or nothing without any personal consequences for the Warden.

It just seems that someone else it going to cop it on the shoulder, closure would be very difficult to give for BOTH the Warden and Hawke if you do get rid of either of them. It kinda seems like a giant middle finger (sorry Bioware) to get rid of BOTH of them. All those hours developing characters for both Hawke and Warden seems wasted.

It may be difficult to bring back Hawke and even the Warden but if you do it just right you should be able to pull off having the vision you wanted as well keeping original fans happy.

Now lets all go to the lobby

[In Exile]

Crazy Eyed One wrote...
[DA: Origin Spolier]Getting rid of the Warden kinda eliminates the purpose of the die or have a god like baby child with Morrigan. The US/OGB choice seems like die herioically or live and run the risk of an powerful enemy/ally in future adventures. But if they get rid of the Warden it seems like you basically choose between powerful enemy/ally or nothing without any personal consequences for the Warden.

I never saw that as the choice. I always saw it as : choose the convenient answer for yourself (survive & kill the archdemon, be the Hero of Ferelden in the most absolute sense) with a potentially catastrophic future (OGB) or do your duty as a Warden (sacrifice your soul).

It always seemed to be something close-ended. When Morrigain said: don't follow me, I took that as a message to the player. 

[Merced652]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Bah- you just know they'll twist the knife even further in the future when they bring back Morrigan without the warden that went through the Eluvian with her. Come up with some stupid reason why the Warden can't be there, when the real reason is  BioWare's Sacred Cow of Player VO cant be touched.

Right, the real reason why Morrigan won't show up with the Warden is because of the voiced protagonist. Can't possibly be that your Warden isn't everybody else's Warden and not everybody's Warden went with Morrigan.

So we're ****ed because of your choice? Why even give us choice if it doesn't result in anything? Thats the point that everyone who romanced morrigan will take to DA's grave. Why let us do the DR? Was the whole DR scenario just dumb luck on their part? Did they think it was some cheesy bull**** that people latched on to and now the writers have no clue how to cope? Personally, and i say this with complete conviction; i'd rather have no choice and ride on some sweet rails if by having choice i never make it off the carousel. 

Modifié par Merced652, 28 mai 2011 - 05:14 .

[steelfire_dragon]

and the warden is gone... and Hawke is gone.

Who are these two you speak of?
I dont know this hawke or Warden, I only know of Shepard...... and some wild tales that Flemeth told me... about contructs callingthemselves Geth.

hahahahaha


come on Dragon age 3

[In Exile]

Merced652 wrote...
So we're ****ed because of your choice? Why even give us choice if it doesn't result in anything? Thats the point that everyone who romanced morrigan will take to DA's grave. Why let us do the DR? Was the whole DR scenario just dumb luck on their part? Did they think it was some cheesy bull**** that people latched on to and now the writers have no clue how to cope? Personally, and i say this with complete conviction; i'd rather have no choice and ride on some sweet rails if by having choice i never make it off the carousel.

It was a chance to RP what your character would do in the moment. The DR scenario was another chance to RP. That's how Bioware designs their games. It was never about seeing it play out in a future game. It was about yet another moment for the player to face a crisis of morals and guide their PC through it.

[Harid]

Robtachi wrote...

Huntress wrote...

Robtachi wrote...

I've gotta be honest, I wouldn't give a crap if my (living) Warden was given a voice and the face mold was adapted somewhat to fit in Dragon Age 3 if that meant having a party in some way comprised of my Warden and my Hawke. That is absolutely the best possible scenario for DA3 and DAMN THE CONSEQUENCES!

Remember when we used to pick from a few different voice banks for our PCs in Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, etc.? I would have zero complaints about doing that again if it meant playing my Warden again in concert with Hawke in an overarching plot that ties it all together.

I wouldn't give a crap either, but many players that did the Ultimate sacrifie is gonna cry about it, it doesn't matter what you're warden did or if is a life, their ends is what matters and DAO is too long and boring for them to make a warden that survive the blight.

Well at least I like hawk and I'll stay with this character for a year until a new one show up, sadly the ones who doesn't like hawk are going to be very bored for a year.. well there is always .. crap forgot that game again.. anyway have fun! I know I will.

I feel like that's the beauty of a joint adventure between the Warden and Hawke.  If the Warden did sacrifice him/herself, you've still got good ol' Hawke to carry on the journey, perhaps along with some returning party members in the Warden's place.

How's THAT for choices branching into different play experiences?

When has Bioware EVER DONE THIS?

They enjoy keeping choices minimal so that one player largely experiences the same game as another.  It also vastly decreases the amount of work they have to do.  Heck, they don't even differentiate between genders, so expecting them to allow choices to carry that kind of weight is simple folly.

I've said this for some time, but Bioware seems to be patterning after making the American JRPG.  Choices matter less, character archetypes are set in stone, heck, armor doesn't change anymore.  Which is incredibly ironic to me, given how they used to troll JPRGs like a year and a half ago like kicking someone when they are down.

Without the Warden, and more specifically, without a Warden who helped sire the OGB, the plot point is pointless.  This will end up being a retcon character at best, and a hidden boss or completely disregarded at worst.

Modifié par Harid, 28 mai 2011 - 07:27 .

[Zanallen]

I talked about this in an earlier thread, but with the save import from game to game, the amount of choices become too much. After a while they would be making games where only half the players would see the content on any given playthrough and you'd either have to have different saves already in place or an opening set of choices to "pick your prologue". Personally, I would rather Bioware cut the save import and focus on having meaningful choices within a given game than keep the feature and dumb down the choices to prevent future difficulties.