59 réponses à ce sujet

[Astorax]

Hey guys, as some of you have seen, we have some new forum organization happening now.

I know some folks just have these forums bookmarked, but there's now a toolset "section" to the forums with more specific categories to help split up a lot of the discussion so it's not all in one place.

I invite you to post here to let us know if there's specific areas that aren't addressed that you're fiending for, and/or if some of the categories don't make sense to you.

Modifié par Astorax, 23 novembre 2009 - 05:12 .

[KalDurenik]

hmm i don't think i can see it... But then again i might have to remove a cookie or something.

[Quildra]

I can only see said new structure when I am logged out of my account. As soon as I log in I can only see the gneral discussion board

[KalDurenik]

And err im not sure what you are going to add but i would like to see a area for mod requests and a forum section where a group (in a project) can show their maps.



Then beside that i guess there is going to be the basic> Script, Level and so on sections... Anyway looking good and nice to hear that you guys are around and listening

[Astorax]

Hokay, so I may have jumped the gun and it's not actually prepared for public consumption yet.



Having said that, the structure as I can see it is:



Toolset Forum

- - Toolset General Discussion

- - Building area and creation

- - Custom Content

- - Audio

- - Scripting

- - Project announcement and recruitment

[Challseus]

I really feel we need a separate forum for all new single player campaigns, ala the Modules section from NWN1 and NWN2.

The rest looks fine to me.

[Astorax]

We do Challseus...that's the Project announcement and recruitment. Beyond that, the project created itself will serve as the "tracking" for that project. Basically, someone creates a new project they're working on via the Projects (separate from forums) then posts an announcement about it in the forums. Then folks can subscribe to the project to watch its progress. Saves you from having to constantly bump the thread with "hey, added a new area" etc...you can still bump the thread periodically to grab new followers for the project, but overall it requires less focus on the forum presence and lets you focus more on the project itself.

Sorry, to clarify, the Project itself IS the other forum I should say...the project category in the toolset forum is merely an announcement place...the project section of the socile site really will serve as the modules forum....once it gets its added functionality (searching, etc).

Keep in mind the social site itself is in its infancy, so new features will be added to it and it will grow to fit our needs as a community, it might just take some time.  The team's been really focused on core functionality, stability, and getting the DLC out to folks in a stable fashion.

Modifié par Astorax, 19 novembre 2009 - 11:38 .

[KalDurenik]

In my opinion it looks okey. Also if you could fix the search function on the forum it would be great!

Edit:Sounds great... Where do one request mods? general or ?

Modifié par KalDurenik, 19 novembre 2009 - 11:38 .

[Astorax]

Heh, yeah, see my above post...site's new, stuff's bein worked on at a furious pace.

[Challseus]

Astorax wrote...

We do Challseus...that's the Project announcement and recruitment. Beyond that, the project created itself will serve as the "tracking" for that project. Basically, someone creates a new project they're working on via the Projects (separate from forums) then posts an announcement about it in the forums. Then folks can subscribe to the project to watch its progress. Saves you from having to constantly bump the thread with "hey, added a new area" etc...you can still bump the thread periodically to grab new followers for the project, but overall it requires less focus on the forum presence and lets you focus more on the project itself.

Fair enough. Makes sense when you put it like that. Thanks to you and whoever else (Jesse?) is behind the breaking up of these forums.

[elys]

Yeah, I can too only see the new forums when logged out.
I assume the board admin is currently working on them. That means we'll get them soon

[Astorax]

KalDurenik wrote...
Edit:Sounds great... Where do one request mods? general or ?

Depends, are you requesting an entire mod? (a la a story + content, etc etc) Or are you just asking for like, a specific area, or a piece of custom content?

If you're asking for an entire story/mod I'd say in the project announcement/recruitment thread would be applicable...if you're asking for just an area, then the building and area creation would be appropriate...if you're looking for a specific model/creature, then the custom content forum would be the place to go.

[Jesse van Herk]

A permissions fix will be forthcoming.

[KalDurenik]

Okey nice to hear thanks alot Astorax. Oh and while you are running around Can one of you guys from Bioware Make a Offical Bug topic? For the main game

Modifié par KalDurenik, 19 novembre 2009 - 11:49 .

[Sunjammer]

A rather bizarre selection of sub-forums. It doesn't seem like a lot of thought went into these and therefore is lots of room for confusion here: what is "general" and what is "building"? where to levels, vfx, morphs, etc. go? where do database analysis and tools go? stand alone utilities? why the special treatment for sounds over the other forms of CC?

I would suggest closing them, ensuring you've got full coverage without overlap and then open a more logical set of subforums otherwise we are going to be paying for it for the next 5 years.

Modifié par Sunjammer, 20 novembre 2009 - 12:36 .

[Astorax]

Shockingly, some thought did go into them Sunjammer, they almost mirror what the old NWN categories are (sans Audio, I'd agree that should just be folded into custom content), and there was very little confusion amongst the community there.



The only thing you mention which isn't clear where it would go is in analysis (and reporting tools with that) for database stuff, and/or 3rd party tools like, say, a model importer/exporter and/or viewer...which honestly, is a project...and so would logically fall under the project announcement/recruitment forum, attached to a project that is created for whatever the tool does.



Singling out "building" without the rest of the title is misleading. It's "Building and area creation"...which is pretty self-explanatory (or was pretty clear to the NWN1 and NWN2 community where it was used on both their forums). A level is an area (sic) but the theory is sound, and would go in that sub forum. VFX...what aspect of one? The scripting of it firing appropriately and/or attaching it to a spell? Odds are scripting. Creating of one from scratch? Probably custom content.



Your gloom and doom is...odd. You make a pretty inflammatory post and barely offer any kind of constructive criticism which is really unlike you given your other posts and involvement in the community.



If you have suggestions, that's what I asked for. What do you think would make a better set of headings?

[FalloutBoy]

"Building area and creation" is kind of ambiguous. Is it for building areas or for creating buildings?



I'd say something like "Level and area design". Less confusing IMO.

[Astorax]

*nod* totally. Makes sense to me.

[Sunjammer]

Astorax wrote...

Shockingly, some thought did go into them Sunjammer, they almost mirror what the old NWN categories are (sans Audio, I'd agree that should just be folded into custom content), and there was very little confusion amongst the community there.

They don't "almost mirror" the old NWN categories: there are two forums common to both and differences are where the problems lie (i.e. overlaps and gaps).

• Audio you've already accepted is an "odd man out" so presumably we can drop that one or do we, radically, increase the granularity of the other technical forums to a similar level? As suggested in a previous thread should the available forums match the "roles"? Personally I don't think there would be enough traffic in each forum to justify fragmenting them in this way but it's always something that can be done on a progressive basis over time.
  
• In NWN there was there was one Toolset which has now appears to be split in two: the seemingly redundant Toolset General Discussion and soon to be renamed Building area and creation. Do we really need both? Which topics are covered by which forum? Will specifying "area" and/ or "level" in the forum's name push other topics into the "General Discussion"?
  
• NWN had a Developers forum which would, if it existed here, be a home for discussing database related tools and standalone utilities. I personally think it is overkill but, if memory serves, when I suggested combining it with the Scripting forum it was you who objected saying developer threads would be drowned out by the scripting threads (see http://social.biowar...c/8/index/94102).

Astorax wrote...

Your gloom and doom is...odd. You make a pretty inflammatory post and barely offer any kind of constructive criticism which is really unlike you given your other posts and involvement in the community.

If you have suggestions, that's what I asked for. What do you think would make a better set of headings?

If you've asked then I've missed it, ironically enough given the topic. That said suggestions have been given by both me and a handful of others, here and on the previous incarnation of the Toolset forum (and you were active in at least one of these threads).

My personal interest is the scripting community and so long as there is a Scripting forum my requirements are satisfied. My "gloom and doom" as you put was frustration at the poor choices being offered to everyone else despite previous suggestions. However if the reward for pointing out how the rest of community will be affected is to be lightly flambéed by a BioMod then I'm not overly motivated to make the same mistake twice.

Nonetheless I will offer a list of alternatives, if only to spark discussion, however it will be at least as subjective as the current one but with the additional handicap of not knowing what restrictions BioWare might be imposing (for example perhaps we must have forum X and perhaps we can only have a total of 5 forums). A better approach would be to round up the NWN/NWN2 veterans and the active new members and hammer out a logical structure with no/minimal overlaps and/or gaps.

Anyway my suggestions (assuming a desire for less rather than more categories):

• Building (i.e. general toolset, add-ons and modules, area and level design, conversations and plots, etc.)
• Cinematics (i.e. cutscenes, movies and machinima)
• Custom Content (i.e. new textures, models and animations; sounds and music; VFX)
• Development (i.e. file formats and specifications, database queries, utilities and plugins)
• Scripting (i.e. home)

Modifié par Sunjammer, 20 novembre 2009 - 04:45 .

[Axe_Murderer]

Cutscenes should have its own I think. Those features have been expanded and improved to such an extent that it now warrants a separate section. Maybe conversations would be better folded into it as well since they are so cinematic now. Perhaps Cutscenes, Conversations, and Machinima, or just Staging or Choreography.

Personally I never have liked that term Custom Content. Anything not made and delivered as part of the game is custom (and content) so that term has always seemed far too general to me. I am much keener on Designer Resources although that has a sort of stodgy ring to it and I think is somewhat ambiguous as well. I prefer Assets over Resources but they are about equivalent so I couldn't tell you why. Designer implies there is more going on for this stuff than often is the case for those files. I think it has a tendency to discourage people who may conclude that they don't have the "design expertise" necessary even though any bozo can, for example, record music. I suppose I would call it something like Community Created Assets, or possibly Multimedia Resources.

Modifié par Axe_Murderer, 20 novembre 2009 - 05:44 .

[Astorax]

The general toolset forum exists for now because, that's where everyone is, combined with the numerous issues folks are having with the toolset functioning. Installation, troubleshooting, tips and tricks, etc. It is, as it describes, a general toolset forum, which means anything that doesn't fit well into another forum goes there.



The building forum you describe is basically exactly what is there now, sans the "general toolset". As the toolset gets ironed out, it may well be possible to sunset that particular forum and simply fold it into the Level and area design forum. Or alternately, perhaps a renaming of the "Level and area design" forum into something a bit more inclusive for conversation as well since that would fit into that category nicely. Any ideas? Perhaps splitting the toolset forum into something like, building (as you describe) then a toolset tips and tricks or some such. There have been a couple people mention to me just "building" is too generic and not clear about what goes in there though.



While I'd applaud having a cinematics forum, there's just not enough of it that gets done to warrant its own forum. Generally the questions about doing cinematics have more to do with scripting than anything else, and those same questions often apply to normal scripting events, not just cutscenes and machinima.



Development forum, while it might be useful, it is a project. That's what the project forum is for. If NWN is any indication, there really aren't that many apps like that which get created. They had their own forum, but it was also the first forum to go dead, and even at it's busiest it still took two days for a thread to drop off the first page.



As for not soliciting suggestions...my first post in this thread was "I invite you to post here to let us know if there's specific areas that aren't addressed that you're fiending for, and/or if some of the categories don't make sense to you."



and NWN -> DA topics...

Scripting -> Scripting

Toolset -> Level and Area Design

Custom Content -> Custom Content

For Developers + Modules -> Project announcement and recruitment



I definitely hear what you're saying, but I'm not defending the existing choices against what you're proposing for no reason, I moderated the NWN tech forums since day 1, so I watched the traffic on those forums pretty constantly for around 4 years.

[Astorax]

Axe_Murderer wrote...

Cutscenes should have its own I think. Those features have been expanded and improved to such an extent that it now warrants a separate section. Maybe conversations would be better folded into it as well since they are so cinematic now. Perhaps Cutscenes, Conversations, and Machinima, or just Staging or Choreography.

While it's possible that this will happen (and it may due to the expanded functionality like you say) I'd rather see fewer forums to start, and if any of them have excess traffic, expand, rather than have a ton of separate forums for smaller topics and then have them move very slowly.

It's a fine balancing game between keeping a forum busy, without having it be overwhelming.

[Axe_Murderer]

Can't argue with that logic. It makes loads of sense to me to sit back and see where people are posting and break up the overwhelmed forums later. The key will be to name them general enough to cover everything yet specific enough that the chances they will overlap are minimized. In the old NWN1 forums Toolset and Custom Content were not specific enough titles to clearly delineate things and so people often misposted CC stuff in the toolset forum and vice-versa.

As I said earlier I think you can do better than "Custom Content".

Modifié par Axe_Murderer, 20 novembre 2009 - 05:52 .

[Astorax]

So, in my mind, custom content covers things like:



2da editing and documenting

model creation and importing (where it doesn't overlap with an importing tool of course)

sound effects and voice over work

VFX creation



What else do we see going in there? What else could we call it? "Expanding Content", "Extra Content"?

[Axe_Murderer]

I like Multimedia in there somewhere because that's mostly what it is. Content is a poor word because it is obviously content and therefore you don't need to specify that it is. Community Created Multimedia would be a better choice I think.

Here is another idea I came up with, not sure how useful it would be but...
There is a significant sized group of folks who want to extend their DA experience without having to learn and work the toolset. What they probably want is a centralized place where their idea could be laid out and requested. If such a place is provided for that, it would also help those who want to accept these challenges to have a place to respond to the requests maybe for clarification or further refinement of the idea, or where to find a project created to solve it etc.

So I was thinking of a request forum where people could make thier requests and maybe provide some method of tagging their requests with a number or code (even an agreed upon manual procedure would be fine, like "add one to the last person's request number"). Then another forum where people could refer to the requests by thier code to handle the extra clarification communications. The idea is to keep the requests thread clear of solutions but have a place where solutions could be tied to specific requests to keep things separate and better organized.

Modifié par Axe_Murderer, 20 novembre 2009 - 06:11 .