59 réponses à ce sujet

[Sunjammer]

My recurring theme for this post will be that before we can really decide on the subforums we need to understand the role the forums should play in contrast to the wiki, to groups and to projects. It would also be helpful to understand what BioWare's goals are but I suspect it is unlikely that these will be revealed to us mere mortals.

Astorax wrote...

Or alternately, perhaps a renaming of the "Level and area design" forum into something a bit more inclusive for conversation as well since that would fit into that category nicely. Any ideas? Perhaps splitting the toolset forum into something like, building (as you describe) then a toolset tips and tricks or some such. There have been a couple people mention to me just "building" is too generic and not clear about what goes in there though.

It undoubtedly needs to be renamed as Level and area design is far too restrictive. Something broader such as Module and Add-on Development (or Developers if you prefer) would cover a multitude of sins. A separate Toolset tips and tricks forum would be unnecessary since the wiki also exists for capturing much of this information (and so much more).

Astorax wrote...

While I'd applaud having a cinematics forum, there's just not enough of it that gets done to warrant its own forum. Generally the questions about doing cinematics have more to do with scripting than anything else, and those same questions often apply to normal scripting events, not just cutscenes and machinima.

I suspect almost none of the cutscene questions will have to do with scripting. It will be all about curve editing, object activation/deactivation, animation blending, etc. The only scripting required is to start a cutscene and that a boilerplate two line script.

Moreover (as discussed at the Builders Event 2) BioWare is keen to encourage new groups beyond the BG/NWN/CRPG types to produce content with the DA Toolset. This is why, for example, they want to attract the machinima community to pick up the toolset and in turn why I suggested having a separate forum for them.

Astorax wrote...

Development forum, while it might be useful, it is a project. That's what the project forum is for. If NWN is any indication, there really aren't that many apps like that which get created. They had their own forum, but it was also the first forum to go dead, and even at its busiest it still took two days for a thread to drop off the first page.

By the same logic every module, add-on, model, animation, cutscene, etc. is also a project and therefore should not have its own forum. We can't say some things are projects and other things not: they are all projects. Understanding where the responsibilities are shared between the forums, wiki and groups/projects is key to getting this right.

For example, a project announcement and recruitment forum is inappropriate (which is why I omitted it). The social site already has an infrastructure to support projects which, if it is deemed inadequate in some way, should be fixed or expanded rather than simply passing the responsibility along to the forums. Duplicating project information in a forum is both unnecessary and undesirable: it is essentially spam.

Incidentally I'm now confused on your position on Programming/Tools having a separate forum: before you were arguing they should have their own (or at any rate not be merged with scripting) but now you appear to be arguing they shouldn't have one at all.

Astorax wrote...

As for not soliciting suggestions...my first post in this thread was "I invite you to post here to let us know if there's specific areas that aren't addressed that you're fiending for, and/or if some of the categories don't make sense to you."

Hence my confusion: I had assumed you were referring to a thread you started to elicit opinion before the subforums were a fait accomplie.

Astorax wrote...

I definitely hear what you're saying, but I'm not defending the existing choices against what you're proposing for no reason, I moderated the NWN tech forums since day 1, so I watched the traffic on those forums pretty constantly for around 4 years.

I'll happily accept you have a wealth of experience on a different toolset from 3.5 years ago. In fact when I started you were one of the few names worth paying attention to. However the DA toolset isn't NWN toolset and it has a host of new or massively enhanced features: terrain, cutscenes, morphs, VFX, light mapping, materials, database backend, etc. It's a round peg vs. a square hole: the needs of the DA community cannot be forced to fit the NWN model.

[Sunjammer]

Axe_Murderer wrote...

I like Multimedia in there somewhere because that's mostly what it is. Content is a poor word because it is obviously content and therefore you don't need to specify that it is. Community Created Multimedia would be a better choice I think.

Since neither you, me nor Astorax is a custom content developer it probably makes sense to ask them what they require and what they would like it to be called.  This was rather my point about my list being subjective.

[lowrez01]

Astorax wrote...

Hey guys, as some of you have seen, we have some new forum organization happening now.

I know some folks just have these forums bookmarked, but there's now a toolset "section" to the forums with more specific categories to help split up a lot of the discussion so it's not all in one place.

I invite you to post here to let us know if there's specific areas that aren't addressed that you're fiending for, and/or if some of the categories don't make sense to you.

This needs to be broken down to topic specific sub forums. I'd love one for level / area editing, scripting, VO, etc. That would be rad.

[Axe_Murderer]

Sunjammer makes several good points. Tips and Tricks seems like a sticky topic with lots of Wiki links in it to me rather than an entire forum. Have to agree that if you don't give 3rd party tool devs a place to go their stuff will get lost somewhere else that may not be clearly a dev tool related forum. Yet I also noticed how inactive that one was in the old site so at least not that many will be "hidden". Yeah the artsy guys would probably have a good term for it they're almost as good at making up words as us programmers. I put up what it looks like to me (multimedia assets), but my point was just to say that Custom Content is not a good term. Everything added is custom. Everything added is content. So it just isn't specific enough.

[Astorax]

Sunjammer wrote...

My recurring theme for this post will be that before we can really decide on the subforums we need to understand the role the forums should play in contrast to the wiki, to groups and to projects. It would also be helpful to understand what BioWare's goals are but I suspect it is unlikely that these will be revealed to us mere mortals.

Quite the contrary, they've already spoken a fair bit about what the goals are for each area of the forum.  And I agree, we need to have an understanding of said goals before deciding on sub-forum categories.  I think I have a handle on at the very least, the Projects goal vs. forum goals.

It undoubtedly needs to be renamed as Level and area design is far too restrictive. Something broader such as Module and Add-on Development (or Developers if you prefer) would cover a multitude of sins. A separate Toolset tips and tricks forum would be unnecessary since the wiki also exists for capturing much of this information (and so much more).

Except the idea is NOT to have module design/development in any way done via the forums.  No collaboration, no discussion of a specific module.  That's what a project is, and is for (I could well be wrong and a Biodude will come by and smack me down, but I've at least chatted with a couple of them about it).  The forum would then be merely a vehicle for announcing it's presence, and/or looking for more people to help out on said project.  What you are suggesting as "Something broader [snip] covering a multitide of sins" is exactly what SHOULDN'T be done via the forum...that's what the projects do and are for, and do so pretty well even now.  The main issue with them is lack of exposure.  Unless you know what you're generally looking for, finding it amongst the existing projects is difficult.  Hence the forum to announce and recruit for projects.  I see the level design forum being specifically for:

1. Help understanding terrain building.
2. Placeables and aesthetic discussions
3. Conversation tree help
4. Cutscene controls help (although as you say, it may well be that because of the expanded functionality warrants its own forum, but I'd rather wait and see if it indeed does, then have a very sluggish forum that doesn't have a lot of active discussion on it)

So yes, in that sense, Area and Level Design IS too restrictive and I'm more than open to discussing what name would encompass these things.

I suspect almost none of the cutscene questions will have to do with scripting. It will be all about curve editing, object activation/deactivation, animation blending, etc. The only scripting required is to start a cutscene and that a boilerplate two line script.

Moreover (as discussed at the Builders Event 2) BioWare is keen to encourage new groups beyond the BG/NWN/CRPG types to produce content with the DA Toolset. This is why, for example, they want to attract the machinima community to pick up the toolset and in turn why I suggested having a separate forum for them.

You may absolutely right here, but as I mentioned to axe, I'd rather wait and see and expand rather than try to combine forums that aren't as active (easier to split than to combine by far).  Given that it's a section of the community that was VERY limited in the past games (NWN and NWN2, not to say they didn't exist, they did, but they were a small group by comparison to the main body of the community) I believe they may be slow to adopt.

By the same logic every module, add-on, model, animation, cutscene, etc. is also a project and therefore should not have its own forum. We can't say some things are projects and other things not: they are all projects. Understanding where the responsibilities are shared between the forums, wiki and groups/projects is key to getting this right.

For example, a project announcement and recruitment forum is inappropriate (which is why I omitted it). The social site already has an infrastructure to support projects which, if it is deemed inadequate in some way, should be fixed or expanded rather than simply passing the responsibility along to the forums. Duplicating project information in a forum is both unnecessary and undesirable: it is essentially spam.

Exactly right.  The Project Announcement and Recruitment forum is all that's needed to compliment the Projects.  I think everything involving a module level add-on should be a project.  Going ot the granularity of a model, cutscene, etc, yes, they SHOULD be projects if they're going to take more than a day or two to complete, or if extended discussion is needed to determine design, or if multiple people are going to be working on it together.  The forums are a place to start fledgling ideas, and/or ask questions of how to, or announce that the long-standing project is about to begin.  At that point, it moves into becoming a project, and interested parties subscribe to it, and watch it from there.

My expectation (could be misplaced) is that at some point the browseability of that section of the social site gets expanded and they become an even more integral part of the larger community in that you can come in and just start a project and gain visibility through search functionality...but for now, since that's not here, we need something to give that visibility.

Incidentally I'm now confused on your position on Programming/Tools having a separate forum: before you were arguing they should have their own (or at any rate not be merged with scripting) but now you appear to be arguing they shouldn't have one at all.

I don't think I ever advocated them having their own forum (if I did, I misspoke).  I firmly believe any tool like that should be a Project, not actively developed in a forum in any way.  Announcing a tool project should however be in a forum (because of the above reasons).  A developer forum may become something good to have if/when we discover how extensible the toolset may or may not be (if we ever get people actively developing on the source of the toolset)...but for the most part, I think Projects will suffice for a home for these projects.  If I'm wrong, it's very easy to add it in the future.

Hence my confusion: I had assumed you were referring to a thread you started to elicit opinion before the subforums were a fait accomplie.

The headings aren't final...they can be changed to whatever we want them to be.  Hell, we shook up the NWN forums I think 6 months after the toolset's release to add the developer's forum as well as a couple other sub-forums.

I'll happily accept you have a wealth of experience on a different toolset from 3.5 years ago. In fact when I started you were one of the few names worth paying attention to. However the DA toolset isn't NWN toolset and it has a host of new or massively enhanced features: terrain, cutscenes, morphs, VFX, light mapping, materials, database backend, etc. It's a round peg vs. a square hole: the needs of the DA community cannot be forced to fit the NWN model.

And it's not...the concepts are the same despite added functionality.  I'm not saying the NWN model is going to be the end-all for the DA community.  I'm saying it's a place to start to see what we have and what we get since the community here is largely the same folks that were big in the NWN community.  I understand the toolset is vastly more complex with a lot more capability...and it may be that we need to also then add more complexity to the forum system to handle it.  I'm advocating waiting and seeing however...start with broad forum categories that encompass a lot of things, and break out if/when the community expands into those areas.

My concern as a moderator/facilitator here on the boards is two-fold.
1) The forums move too fast, and people with questions never get answers because their question gets pushed off the front pages too fast.
2) The forums move too slow, and there's not enough activity, and people are put off because not enough is going on, and/or they have to look in too many places to see everything they care about.

That's where I'm coming from.  I'm not trying to pin down how the forums will look when the community is established a year from now...I'm trying to get a good starting place that we can expand from.  Hopefully that gives a little more perspective on why I'm taking the positions I am.

Also, it's WAY easier to expand and add a forum than to remove or combine them...which is why I'm erring on the side of broad.

[Astorax]

Axe_Murderer wrote...

Sunjammer makes several good points. Tips and Tricks seems like a sticky topic with lots of Wiki links in it to me rather than an entire forum. Have to agree that if you don't give 3rd party tool devs a place to go their stuff will get lost somewhere else that may not be clearly a dev tool related forum. Yet I also noticed how inactive that one was in the old site so at least not that many will be "hidden". Yeah the artsy guys would probably have a good term for it they're almost as good at making up words as us programmers. I put up what it looks like to me (multimedia assets), but my point was just to say that Custom Content is not a good term. Everything added is custom. Everything added is content. So it just isn't specific enough.

*nod* totally...the "tips and tricks" is definitely wiki material, I agree 100%.  My thought is that this current forum goes away at some point finally...it's important now only because the toolset is so new, and it's a convenient place with the stickies to get info out fast and visibly about install issues, and basically getting things underway.   So for now while it's here, it can handle some tips and trick gathering place that will then have that info translated into the wiki by folks that are involved in updating it.

And like I mentioned to Sunjammer, if the dev tools start getting lost in the shuffle, then of course, we can always break out a forum for them.  But with that forum being the slow moving one in the old forums, I'd rather wait and see than start one up, have it be sluggish, and have to figure out a way to make it go away somewhere and/or sit there taking up space.

[KalDurenik]

Is it fixed yet or is the same problems still around?

[Proleric]

Astorax wrote...

So, in my mind, custom content covers things like:

2da editing and documenting
model creation and importing (where it doesn't overlap with an importing tool of course)
sound effects and voice over work
VFX creation

What else do we see going in there? What else could we call it? "Expanding Content", "Extra Content"?

How about using the same terminology as the wiki? After lengthy brain-washing in the scuzmatron, I'm now talking about Art Resources.
The other categories proposed in this thread sound good. Scripting and module biz need to be broken out for sure.
Looking at the volume of posts, I'd say there was a strong case for an OC mods category for all the "Please make silk panties for Shale" threads.
Incidentally, I still can't see the new sub-forum structure, even if I log out and sign on again.

[Wintermist]

I only see this Toolset forum :/ And apparantly, that's the way it is for everyone hehe

Modifié par Wintermist, 20 novembre 2009 - 09:16 .

[Adinos]

Wintermist wrote...

I only see this Toolset forum :/ And apparantly, that's the way it is for everyone hehe

Well, you will see the new forums if you log out first .

Getting new forums is a big improvement - however, I would have liked to see them organized a bit differently, because it is not entirely clear where certain topics should go.

Consider the following:

• "Help!"  Technical problems with the toolset - should those go into the "General" forum, or should there be a special "toolset tech support" forum?
• Cutscenes and Machinima  Should they go into the Custom Content  forum?  If so, then what is the justification for a separate Audio forum - why does Audio deserve a special forum, but not Video?
• Tools and file formats.  General Forum?  Custom Content Forum?  It's not at all clear.

However, it is easy to add new groups, or rename them at this stage, and new groups will certainly help with solving some of the issues with this site - the new forums will basically mean its "one down, five to go", and although it's not about the forums, but rather the projects and general site issues, I would like to mention my suggestion list once again:

• Add more project categories (areas, scripts, machinima, tutorials and so on)
• Separate builder-to-player content from builder-to-builder content.
• Add the ability to classify/search projects by status (inactive, under development, released/ongoing or completed.)
• Add a rating system (with a proper download counter)
• Add the ability to re-classify projects that were incorrectly classified originally
• {done} Add more discussion forums (a separate sub-forum for scripting and so on)

Still, it is really nice to see the site organization improve.

Modifié par Adinos, 20 novembre 2009 - 12:04 .

[tazpn]

I would like to see more forums but not too many. 4 or so for toolset sounds enough to me. More just means confusion and as adinos says. 1 down 5 to go when reviewing posts.
I dont think tools and file formats or whatever should be own forum. Tools support a specific activity and should be refered to there. Audio seems unnecessary as a separate forum. Is it really going to be that active?
My vote... Help! | General Toolset | Mapping/Terrain/Areas | Scripting | Models/Skins
Dont know if Models/Skins would generate sustaining traffic but once we complete tools to enable custom models. I expect it to pick up.

Modifié par tazpn, 20 novembre 2009 - 03:44 .

[Astorax]

I definitely agree, Audio isn't needed...I think there's general consensus on that for sure.



The Help! Forum in my mind would be the general forum for sure, because it's a transient thing. It won't be needed forever, and/or perhaps we add a tech support forum for the toolset specifically in the tech support section.



Also Adinos, my thoughts on Tools and file formats: File formats should be wiki IMO, and tools should be their own Projects and then announced/recruited for in the Project Announcement and Recruitment forum...do you think that will be enough if we also then get better searching/filtering/rating system in place for the Projects section of the site?

[st4rdog]

Here's what I was hoping for, especially the seperation of SP mods and full compaigns.

Toolset Forums

Main

• General Discussion (covers all technical questions about Areas(transitions/doors/etc)/Cutscenes/Creatures/Convos/Placeables/Audio/VFX/creating a module/etc etc)
• Scripting
• Technical Support (installation problems/bugs etc)

Art/Creative

• Level editing (outdoor/indoor/rooms/maps - not Areas)
• Custom Content (questions about importing/using your own models/textures/audio - also sharing/releasing of models etc)

Modules/Projects/Downloads

• Mods (announce mods to SP - Storage Chest/etc)
• Campaigns (announce original campaigns seperate to SP - a stickied thread could be for voice over artists to advertise themselves, etc)
• Machinima (showcase finished movies)
• Other (Utilities - Mod Manager/DATool. Misc Projects - Community Campaign/etc)

Modifié par st4rdog, 20 novembre 2009 - 04:45 .

[Mersozz Yelo]

I'd like to see a Tutorials subsection of the Toolset within the Forum.  I'd prefer that the Tutorials be set aside from general comments and questions. 

People that are looking for tutorials, in general, are looking for quick, easy answers, and so a cleanly organized Tutorial section makes sense. 

Even if the toolset topics are mainly links to the wiki, I'd like a place for them in the forums.  If I have a specific issue that could be addressed by checking the forums first, that would be a major help.

And it would be nice if the tutorials were very basic....some of the stuff on the wiki assumes user knowledge that isn't there yet.....there are a lot of people that are completely unfamiliar with the controls, and need basic guidance. 

The goal should be a click-by-click rundown, include screenshots that highlight the respective toolset buttons, so that a novice can create a workable module. 

It should cover every step, from creation, through building, to saving, exporting, loading and playtesting.  Even if this is limited to "go into the house and kill a spider for grandma", it would be an enormous help for a beginner to be able to recreate exactly what is made.

I understand that many people have put good work out there, in the forums, on the wiki, and on youtube, but I'd like to see them anchored within a specific forum subsection, and then allow the novice to be directed to where they need to go depending on what they are looking to accomplish.

Modifié par Mersozz Yelo, 20 novembre 2009 - 05:18 .

[Astorax]

I do plan on, once the new sections go live, having a sticky with links to various parts of the wiki that pertain to that section...so like, a link to the scripting section of the wiki in the scripting forum, links to how to import models in whatever we end up calling the Art Asset forum, etc etc. So there will definitely be crossover...I just don't want there to be multiple places for that type of information so people feel the need to go to both places to find out stuff...for example, I'd want to avoid someone making a thread on the forums "How to import a model from 3ds into the game" when there's a wiki page devoted to that information (not that there is yet, but eventually there will hopefully be stuff like that on the wiki).





st4rdog - assuming we get more functionality into the Projects section of the site (search/etc) do you think we really need:



# Mods (announce mods to SP - Storage Chest/etc)

# Campaigns (announce original campaigns seperate to SP - a stickied thread could be for voice over artists to advertise themselves, etc)

# Machinima (showcase finished movies)



Or do you think one forum to announce these things is enough? Given how difficult the toolset is, I'm not sure we're going to get a proliferation of finished projects that will flood an announcement forum really.



Or alternately, do you feel strongly that we should have all from the start, or does it sound reasonable to start with one place for all these things?

[Astorax]

Mersozz Yelo wrote...

And it would be nice if the tutorials were very basic....some of the stuff on the wiki assumes user knowledge that isn't there yet.....there are a lot of people that are completely unfamiliar with the controls, and need basic guidance. 

The goal should be a click-by-click rundown, include screenshots that highlight the respective toolset buttons, so that a novice can create a workable module. 

It should cover every step, from creation, through building, to saving, exporting, loading and playtesting.  Even if this is limited to "go into the house and kill a spider for grandma", it would be an enormous help for a beginner to be able to recreate exactly what is made.

I understand that many people have put good work out there, in the forums, on the wiki, and on youtube, but I'd like to see them anchored within a specific forum subsection, and then allow the novice to be directed to where they need to go depending on what they are looking to accomplish.

As I mentioned, I'd like this all to be contained within the wiki, with links from a sticky in one of the forums ideally.  Of course, they need to be created first.  I agree that step-by-step really specific basic user walkthroughs of the basic funtionality of the toolset would be great.  I think the problem right now is the people best suited to do this are too busy figuring out the advanced stuff to write down the basics.  I should have a nice break for the holidays to actually dig into the toolset (and finish the SP campaign finally) and once I do I hope to get some Camtasia grabs of the basics to upload if no one else has done that yet (there are a couple floating around for some things, the Bioware 6 Youtube vids aren't bad for a start).

[Adaram]

Astorax wrote...

I do plan on, once the new sections go live, having a sticky with links to various parts of the wiki that pertain to that section...so like, a link to the scripting section of the wiki in the scripting forum, links to how to import models in whatever we end up calling the Art Asset forum, etc etc. So there will definitely be crossover...I just don't want there to be multiple places for that type of information so people feel the need to go to both places to find out stuff...for example, I'd want to avoid someone making a thread on the forums "How to import a model from 3ds into the game" when there's a wiki page devoted to that information (not that there is yet, but eventually there will hopefully be stuff like that on the wiki).


st4rdog - assuming we get more functionality into the Projects section of the site (search/etc) do you think we really need:

# Mods (announce mods to SP - Storage Chest/etc)
# Campaigns (announce original campaigns seperate to SP - a stickied thread could be for voice over artists to advertise themselves, etc)
# Machinima (showcase finished movies)

Or do you think one forum to announce these things is enough? Given how difficult the toolset is, I'm not sure we're going to get a proliferation of finished projects that will flood an announcement forum really.

Or alternately, do you feel strongly that we should have all from the start, or does it sound reasonable to start with one place for all these things?

Hey I know you asked str this, but I think, even with a search function, having this available would be helpful.  From a "Builders" perspective, we are trying to create a social experience and information community that gives us functionality similar to DA Mods and Nexus.  Those two site have done a good job "organizing" things in a way for people to more easily access what they are looking to find.  I know search will help find things as well, but not in the same, organized fashion.

Just my 2 cents.

Thanks.

[Mersozz Yelo]

Astorax wrote...

Mersozz Yelo wrote...

And it would be nice if the tutorials were very basic....some of the stuff on the wiki assumes user knowledge that isn't there yet.....there are a lot of people that are completely unfamiliar with the controls, and need basic guidance. 

The goal should be a click-by-click rundown, include screenshots that highlight the respective toolset buttons, so that a novice can create a workable module. 

It should cover every step, from creation, through building, to saving, exporting, loading and playtesting.  Even if this is limited to "go into the house and kill a spider for grandma", it would be an enormous help for a beginner to be able to recreate exactly what is made.

I understand that many people have put good work out there, in the forums, on the wiki, and on youtube, but I'd like to see them anchored within a specific forum subsection, and then allow the novice to be directed to where they need to go depending on what they are looking to accomplish.

As I mentioned, I'd like this all to be contained within the wiki, with links from a sticky in one of the forums ideally.  Of course, they need to be created first.  I agree that step-by-step really specific basic user walkthroughs of the basic funtionality of the toolset would be great.  I think the problem right now is the people best suited to do this are too busy figuring out the advanced stuff to write down the basics.  I should have a nice break for the holidays to actually dig into the toolset (and finish the SP campaign finally) and once I do I hope to get some Camtasia grabs of the basics to upload if no one else has done that yet (there are a couple floating around for some things, the Bioware 6 Youtube vids aren't bad for a start).

The wiki represents the best medium to hold comprehensive tutorials.  But I'd like for the forums to include a subsection that allows the user to jump into the wiki.  I say that because many of the people that are digging through the toolset are used to the forum structure dating back to NWN1....so having the forums as a jump point to wiki-based tutorials would likely be a big help to the less advanced builders out there.

[Jesse van Herk]

I agree with Astorax - stickying a topic at the top of each forum linking to relevant wiki tutorials will be sufficient for those who are used to forums, and avoids duplication of effort. Putting them in a separate forum would actually make them harder to find, not easier.

[Adaram]

Can the wiki act as a file repository for mods? So you organize the wiki with mod categories, etc., and then folks just go there and DL them?

[Astorax]

Adaram wrote...

Can the wiki act as a file repository for mods? So you organize the wiki with mod categories, etc., and then folks just go there and DL them?

Probably in a roundabout way...perhaps we could organize the wiki into mod-subsections with links that refer back to Project pages where the mods have been uploaded?

Since you can upload your module/add-on files to the Project page associated with it, there may be a good way to cross-polinate by having that be the file repository and have the wiki organize the categories and links, but we're still missing a rating system, which I think is quite important.  I'm hoping we may be able to add some sort of rating system to the Project system in place here so we can "rate" a project.  Then if we have that data accessible via RSS or some technology, we can "post" it easily in a forum/wiki medium so you don't have to actually view the project to see its rating.

[FalloutBoy]

In my experience the areas have that have very little overlap with each other are the following:

General (everything not covered by a specific category)
Scripting (programmer nerds like me hang out here)
Custom Content (artists go here to discuss new icons, creatures, animations, or other stuff that requires external modelling tools like 3dsMax)
Tools and Utilities (these are external tools like YATT for example, or if someone write a Maya exporter or something)
Project Announcements (maybe unnecessary due to the way projects work on this site, but if we don't have it, the general forum will be full of frequently-bumped announcements)
Tech Support (install issues)

That's all you need IMO. And they are listed in order of how much traffic they will get. People like me will rarely go anywhere but General and Scripting. Some people will live in the CC forums and I love them because they are the ones making all the new content that modules makers can use. Tools will be very low traffic and maybe unnecessary, except the issues that tool-makers will care about, nobody else will, and vice versa.

I don't think Terrain editing needs it's own forum. Not much to talk about. Machinima is no different than any other module, but with all cutscenes. Questions like "What's wrong with my cutscene?" or "How do I make a waterfall?" belong in General.

That's how I'd do it, FWIW.

[Jesse van Herk]

The wiki can *not* be used for mods - that is what the "projects" section of this site is for. As far as we are aware that section is working as expected and people are DLing mods from there.

[Astorax]

*nod* lemme ask you fallout, do you think we could combine Tools/Utilities and Project Announcements given that they'll both likely (hopefully) be Projects where a lot of the dev discussion will occur, and not in the forum itself? Or do you feel strongly that they ought to have their own sections?



Also, if you could rename Custom Content (since it's been brought up that it's a bit...vague) what might be a better name for it (just brainstorming here)?

[Adaram]

Jesse van Herk wrote...

The wiki can *not* be used for mods - that is what the "projects" section of this site is for. As far as we are aware that section is working as expected and people are DLing mods from there.

OK thanks for that, Jesse.  I appreciate your response!

So I agree that mods are best held in the project folder.  That being the case, could you help me figue out how I would deal with a few examples?

• Let's say I wanted to see all the mods that relate to "Ability Changes", or,
• the mods that relate to "Gameplay Changes", or,
• most importantly, a list of all the different category's of mods since I want to know if there are any cool mods that I didn't even know existed?

How would I do that?

Thanks again for your responsiveness and all the hard work you put into this site! It's already great, and I know there is a lot left to do still!