116 réponses à ce sujet

[Golden Owl]

Ship.wreck wrote...

thurmanator692 wrote...

Ship.wreck wrote...

thurmanator692 wrote...
...during Tali's recruitment mission...

Good stuff! Sounds like you used Grunt as a distraction to flank the Geth TWICE and establish a three way crossfire!

pretty much. I would never advise this in any scenario in which friendly fire is an issue, but thats not a problem here, especially since grunt can take it

Hahaha! It's been a while since I played ME2, do they shoot eachother as much as they did in ME? In ME it didn't have any effect, you could just see it disrupting the shields... except of course if they were lighting up eachother's shields they weren't shooting the bad guys... that was incredibly annoying. They should've made the AI capable of recognizing the shields and avoiding them, and made the shields closer o the character's body, they were like a 1 foot wide bubble around the character! There were some tight spots where there just wasn't enough room to shoot around your squad mate's sheilds!!!

OH BOY!! That p*ssed me off in ME1....they crowded you where ever you went, jumb you for the position your about to take, etc...and were difficult to place....I don't know if the same proplem was had with PC's, but on the XBox, the placement command was a pain in the backside in ME1.

[Ship.wreck_]

Golden Owl wrote...
OH BOY!! That p*ssed me off in ME1....they crowded you where ever you went, jumb you for the position your about to take, etc...and were difficult to place....I don't know if the same proplem was had with PC's, but on the XBox, the placement command was a pain in the backside in ME1.

I don't recall it being a huge issue in my playthrough, but yeah, when it did happen it was incredibly annoying!

On PC the ME orders were a lot less convenient than ME2. In ME2 we got a single key to push that would automatically send one of the squad members to wherever you're looking, and we got a seperate button for each squad member, it was very simple. In ME it wasn't as nice, you had to hold the space bar down, the game would pause and bring up an orders menu where you could select weapons, powers and either "move to" "hold position" or "regroup".

On the one hand ME was less convenient and broke up the flow of the game to use orders, but on the other it was really nice having all weapons available to each squad member, and being able to tell them which specifically to use, and all that. There was a lot more controll.

In ME2 it didn't make any damn sense how certain classes were magically physically incapable of operating certain weapons. It also didn't make any sense that lift couldn't be used on armored targets. I found those more annoying than the AI issues in ME so I prefered the first game...

But again ME one had a lot of short comings as well...

[Ship.wreck_]

Golden Owl wrote...
If my XBox is evolving into an AI...I'm glad I didn't lend it out.......It's mine I tell you, it's mine!!.......So long as it doesn't start taking control of the house........Electric Dreams anyone?....

Like I said, if I can re-create the situation, I won't be quiet about it...

Hmmm... your nation isn't nuclear armed is it? Maybe you should disconnect your xbox from the internet just so it doesn't go all Skynet on us...

Good! Let us know how it works out!

[Golden Owl]

Ship.wreck wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...
OH BOY!! That p*ssed me off in ME1....they crowded you where ever you went, jumb you for the position your about to take, etc...and were difficult to place....I don't know if the same proplem was had with PC's, but on the XBox, the placement command was a pain in the backside in ME1.

I don't recall it being a huge issue in my playthrough, but yeah, when it did happen it was incredibly annoying!

On PC the ME orders were a lot less convenient than ME2. In ME2 we got a single key to push that would automatically send one of the squad members to wherever you're looking, and we got a seperate button for each squad member, it was very simple. In ME it wasn't as nice, you had to hold the space bar down, the game would pause and bring up an orders menu where you could select weapons, powers and either "move to" "hold position" or "regroup".

On the one hand ME was less convenient and broke up the flow of the game to use orders, but on the other it was really nice having all weapons available to each squad member, and being able to tell them which specifically to use, and all that. There was a lot more controll.

In ME2 it didn't make any damn sense how certain classes were magically physically incapable of operating certain weapons. It also didn't make any sense that lift couldn't be used on armored targets. I found those more annoying than the AI issues in ME so I prefered the first game...

But again ME one had a lot of short comings as well...

On the XBox, we don't get a commands bar...In ME1 it was matter of continuing to press the placement button until the right NPC complied...ME2 is much better, the NPC on your Sheps right hand butt cheek responds to the right hand side button being hit for placement and vice versa with the left hand NPC.

In ME1 I even had Garrus push my Shep into the oncoming plasma thingie from the Armature once...gnrgnrgnr.......He dived for the same position I was diving for at the exact same time, my Shep obviously lost....

[Destroydacre]

My first few ME2 playthroughs I did tactical stuff, now I just close my eyes and select squad mates at random. No matter who I chose, Shepard does nearly all the damage and squad mates are so ridiculously stupid that I grew tired of babysitting them.

It amazes me to no end that they'll be out of cover taking fire and then think that it's a good idea to vault over cover just to get mowed down. And while it's not the squad mates fault, it got pretty aggravating ordering my squad into cover using the dpad only to have them hide behind cover the entire time and never fire. Now I just let them do whatever they want. If they die fine, if they don't fine. At least Shepard knows how to get things done.

[Ship.wreck_]

Golden Owl wrote...
On the XBox, we don't get a commands bar...In ME1 it was matter of continuing to press the placement button until the right NPC complied...ME2 is much better, the NPC on your Sheps right hand butt cheek responds to the right hand side button being hit for placement and vice versa with the left hand NPC.

In ME1 I even had Garrus push my Shep into the oncoming plasma thingie from the Armature once...gnrgnrgnr.......He dived for the same position I was diving for at the exact same time, my Shep obviously lost....

Oh my God! I think this is the first time in history anything has ever been done better on PC than the game makers did on the console version!

Don't forget what I said about the Xbox, skynet... skynet...

Destroydacre wrote...

My first few ME2 playthroughs I did tactical stuff, now I just close my eyes and select squad mates at random. No matter who I chose, Shepard does nearly all the damage and squad mates are so ridiculously stupid that I grew tired of babysitting them.

It amazes me to no end that they'll be out of cover taking fire and then think that it's a good idea to vault over cover just to get mowed down. And while it's not the squad mates fault, it got pretty aggravating ordering my squad into cover using the dpad only to have them hide behind cover the entire time and never fire. Now I just let them do whatever they want. If they die fine, if they don't fine. At least Shepard knows how to get things done.

I hear that alot on this forum. I don't know why but I never had any such problems with my squad. If I place them on opposite sides of the enemy location to create a three way crossfire they usually use cover semi-efectively and utterly anihilate the a bad guys...

[Golden Owl]

Destroydacre wrote...

My first few ME2 playthroughs I did tactical stuff, now I just close my eyes and select squad mates at random. No matter who I chose, Shepard does nearly all the damage and squad mates are so ridiculously stupid that I grew tired of babysitting them.

It amazes me to no end that they'll be out of cover taking fire and then think that it's a good idea to vault over cover just to get mowed down. And while it's not the squad mates fault, it got pretty aggravating ordering my squad into cover using the dpad only to have them hide behind cover the entire time and never fire. Now I just let them do whatever they want. If they die fine, if they don't fine. At least Shepard knows how to get things done.

Personally I do find it does matter who you take and how they fit with your own prefered combat style...I find as a Sniper, I am most often best off with a sniper team...the CQC'c keep running into enemy fire and in my way too, no matter where I place them, though with that being said, my CQC anomoly is Kasumi, I find her easy to work with, though that may have a great deal to do with the fact that I as an Infiltrator studied her cloak use extensively to learn from it and I guess picked up on her style along the way and so can work with it.

I find the CQC's a great inconvienance on Mordin's RM, I resort to pressing the follow me button continuously, when running up the stair cases and then mark their positions on either side of me...they don't always listen...<_<...next minute I know, they are down below me being hammered...........Is especially inconvienant when we come to the room where the Blue Suns are battling the Vorcha, I like to leave the Blue Suns until last, as they are extra fire power for me and Vorcha targets while they are still active.

[Golden Owl]

Ship.wreck wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...
On the XBox, we don't get a commands bar...In ME1 it was matter of continuing to press the placement button until the right NPC complied...ME2 is much better, the NPC on your Sheps right hand butt cheek responds to the right hand side button being hit for placement and vice versa with the left hand NPC.

In ME1 I even had Garrus push my Shep into the oncoming plasma thingie from the Armature once...gnrgnrgnr.......He dived for the same position I was diving for at the exact same time, my Shep obviously lost....

Oh my God! I think this is the first time in history anything has ever been done better on PC than the game makers did on the console version!

Don't forget what I said about the Xbox, skynet... skynet...

It told me it wants to take all the boats out first...........

[Ship.wreck_]

Golden Owl wrote...
It told me it wants to take all the boats out first...........

Tell your xbox its gonna have to beat me to them!


        X   X
       /\\/\\/\\/\\/\\

[Ship.wreck_]

Here's what I'm really hoping for in some game... some day...

Non-engineered environments! Rather than trying to build a level like a chess game, thinking about what people are going to be doing in it way ahead and trying to engineer traits into it. Simply making an area in game the way it would really be! For example a building, all too often in games buildings have ridiculous layouts, and only certain doors will open, but all the non opening doors are still there just because it wouldn't make any sense for doors not to be there, and it wouldn't look right. Just playing through levels like this feels sooo... forced... because it is! Instead they should just build a building the way a building would be built, every door opens and has a room behind it, every room has a purpose and a reason for being there, the entire area is accessable.

If the environment is designed naturally, that will allow the combat that takes place in it to evolve naturally over time and that will make it much less predictable, much more suspenseful, much more exciting and much more immersive. The way I see it if you don't find yourself jumping out of your chair, not in anger or frustration, but in shock and a knee jerk fear reaction to seeing you character get gauged in the face because you NEVER saw that coming... then you're not enjoying the game.

[Aimi]

The thresher maws in ME1 are actually trivial in the Mako. If you want to keep them in the same spot without them going under and reappearing elsewhere, just leave the Mako in the same spot. To avoid the spit, just use the jump jets and time your jumps to avoid the spit. You can just stay effectively in one place, blasting away, and the thresher will never move around.

Of course, if you actually do it that way on any difficulty other than Hardcore/Insanity, you're a wuss for not killing them on foot. 

Modifié par daqs, 31 mai 2011 - 07:13 .

[Ship.wreck_]

Squad movement and vehicle manuvers aren't the only tactics out there, new subject people!

How Do You Use Your Weapons Tactically?
(Customize and use in ME / Use in ME2)

From my other topic, here's a little rant on my general feelings about High Explosive rounds:

I felt the same way (**dissapointed**) about HE at first! The first thing I thought when I read the stats +500% force +500% heat was to slap it on my AR in the hope it would turn into a bad assed battle riffle with ridiculous stopping power. Yeah it'll shoot way slower, but it'll knock everyone down with one shot! So I just burst fire it to manage heat, knock everyone down, and just keep knocking them down until they all die, they'll never be able to get a shot off! Turns out ARs don't have much force to start with so +500% force still isn't much. Doesn't knock down the enemies, and trying to burst fire doesn't work so good. 5 or 6 shots overheats, and trying to burst fire 1 or 3 or 4 only takes a fraction of a second slip to overheat it. Ultimately it takes way longer to kill bad guys than regular rounds because even with extra damage, the really short burst firing + constant overheating all but grinds the process to a halt.

After that I figured it was useless. But for some reason I held onto it. Then later it dawned on me, the whole point of sniper rifles is to kill a target in one shot, and it always annoyed me that none of the snipers in ME do that, and they don't need to shoot fast at all because of the long range you use them at, so it doesn't matter at all if they overheat! So I put HE rounds in my sniper it overheats on every single shot, BUT it blows away EVERYTHING (on foot) in a single shot! Sends enemies that were just standing near your target FLYING through the air, and even with the cooldown periods it'll dispatch a large group of enemies WAY faster than any non-HE, fast shooting sniper ever could! I instantly fell in love!

Then later I realized I've always been dissapointed in the shotgun damage too, and shotguns don't really need to shoot fast either. Never looked back. Now all my squad members have HE snipers and shotguns and the effects are so devestating we're basically untouchable.

My favorite experience it turns out was on my Cerberus hunting missions. The one where you find the lab where they're trying to weaponize the Thorians (remember?). There was an under ground bunker, inside theres a perimeter force field taking up the whole middle of the room. There's enemies around the outside, cleared them out no problem, the shotgun pretty much vaporized them! I was really impressed because it was one of the first time I used HE shotgun. Anway after that, you shut off the force field and have to destroy the Cerberus Thorian experiment. Now normally I shut off the field, light up and kill one of the Thorians, then the others rush me and I have to high tale it down a long hallways. I get to the end turn around and mow them down as they run through the bottleneck, usually getting the last one when he's like 10 feet away from me, cutting it pretty close....

So I plan on using my usual tactic, but expect with the instakill from the shotgun it will buy me a couple more seconds to get to the end of the hallway. I shut off the field, put one shotgun round into the cluster of thorains in the middle of the room (about 5?) AND THEY BLEW THE F*CK UP!  

Seriously the actuall target Thorian vaporized, nothing left but ash and flames, the other four got BLASTED all over the room! It was like watching candy fly out of a pinata that got hit with a G*d damn bazooka! One of them that I watched went flying up into the cieling slammed into it, bounced off flew another 20 feet before slamming into the ground! And they all did something like that, they were all half dead just from getting thrown around! Then Garrus and Wrex finished off three of them before they even had a chance to stand back up, while I waited for my shotgun to cool. Then it cooled off just in time for me to vaporize the last thorian just as it got back up on its feet!

I would never use HE on my AR or my pistol... but now I will NEVER use my sniper or my shotgun WITHOUT HE!

[Golden Owl]

daqs wrote...

The thresher maws in ME1 are actually trivial in the Mako. If you want to keep them in the same spot without them going under and reappearing elsewhere, just leave the Mako in the same spot. To avoid the spit, just use the jump jets and time your jumps to avoid the spit. You can just stay effectively in one place, blasting away, and the thresher will never move around.

Of course, if you actually do it that way on any difficulty other than Hardcore/Insanity, you're a wuss for not killing them on foot. 

Is that a challenge?!!...........*small voice*...okay, you win,I'm a wuss......

[Golden Owl]

Ship.wreck wrote...

Squad movement and vehicle manuvers aren't the only tactics out there, new subject people!

How Do You Use Your Weapons Tactically?
(Customize and use in ME / Use in ME2)

From my other topic, here's a little rant on my general feelings about High Explosive rounds:

I felt the same way (**dissapointed**) about HE at first! The first thing I thought when I read the stats +500% force +500% heat was to slap it on my AR in the hope it would turn into a bad assed battle riffle with ridiculous stopping power. Yeah it'll shoot way slower, but it'll knock everyone down with one shot! So I just burst fire it to manage heat, knock everyone down, and just keep knocking them down until they all die, they'll never be able to get a shot off! Turns out ARs don't have much force to start with so +500% force still isn't much. Doesn't knock down the enemies, and trying to burst fire doesn't work so good. 5 or 6 shots overheats, and trying to burst fire 1 or 3 or 4 only takes a fraction of a second slip to overheat it. Ultimately it takes way longer to kill bad guys than regular rounds because even with extra damage, the really short burst firing + constant overheating all but grinds the process to a halt.

After that I figured it was useless. But for some reason I held onto it. Then later it dawned on me, the whole point of sniper rifles is to kill a target in one shot, and it always annoyed me that none of the snipers in ME do that, and they don't need to shoot fast at all because of the long range you use them at, so it doesn't matter at all if they overheat! So I put HE rounds in my sniper it overheats on every single shot, BUT it blows away EVERYTHING (on foot) in a single shot! Sends enemies that were just standing near your target FLYING through the air, and even with the cooldown periods it'll dispatch a large group of enemies WAY faster than any non-HE, fast shooting sniper ever could! I instantly fell in love!

Then later I realized I've always been dissapointed in the shotgun damage too, and shotguns don't really need to shoot fast either. Never looked back. Now all my squad members have HE snipers and shotguns and the effects are so devestating we're basically untouchable.

My favorite experience it turns out was on my Cerberus hunting missions. The one where you find the lab where they're trying to weaponize the Thorians (remember?). There was an under ground bunker, inside theres a perimeter force field taking up the whole middle of the room. There's enemies around the outside, cleared them out no problem, the shotgun pretty much vaporized them! I was really impressed because it was one of the first time I used HE shotgun. Anway after that, you shut off the force field and have to destroy the Cerberus Thorian experiment. Now normally I shut off the field, light up and kill one of the Thorians, then the others rush me and I have to high tale it down a long hallways. I get to the end turn around and mow them down as they run through the bottleneck, usually getting the last one when he's like 10 feet away from me, cutting it pretty close....

So I plan on using my usual tactic, but expect with the instakill from the shotgun it will buy me a couple more seconds to get to the end of the hallway. I shut off the field, put one shotgun round into the cluster of thorains in the middle of the room (about 5?) AND THEY BLEW THE F*CK UP!  

Seriously the actuall target Thorian vaporized, nothing left but ash and flames, the other four got BLASTED all over the room! It was like watching candy fly out of a pinata that got hit with a G*d damn bazooka! One of them that I watched went flying up into the cieling slammed into it, bounced off flew another 20 feet before slamming into the ground! And they all did something like that, they were all half dead just from getting thrown around! Then Garrus and Wrex finished off three of them before they even had a chance to stand back up, while I waited for my shotgun to cool. Then it cooled off just in time for me to vaporize the last thorian just as it got back up on its feet!

I would never use HE on my AR or my pistol... but now I will NEVER use my sniper or my shotgun WITHOUT HE!

Yep, I hear you, I use HE on my Snipers rifle...I expect long distance and turret sniping to take longer anyway, so the cool down period isn't an issue...HE is awesome for that. As I play an Infiltrator, I don't have shot guns, so can't comment on those, I only use the Snipers Rifle and the pistol, Incineration rounds seem to work best as an all rounder with the pistol, if unsure, insert Incineration.......Though given that, I tend to use by vast majority 'Cryo' in ME2.

You know with the Thorian Creepers, if they do over run you while your shooting in ME1 (swarmers), Shep automatically elbows them, which tends to knock them over....that comes in handy...

[Ship.wreck_]

Not necessary with the HE Shotgun

But thanks, I noticed that

Modifié par Ship.wreck , 01 juin 2011 - 02:34 .

[Golden Owl]

Ship.wreck wrote...

Not necessary with the HE Shotgun

But thanks, I noticed that

Blah, blah, blah...my guns bigger than yours......

Actually, come to think of it, I did run a femShep through for hubby as a soldier in ME1 and did apply HE to her Shot Gun, but probably missed it's effectiveness as I just wasn't getting the hang of Soldier very well, spent a lot of time dying...... I think I was really missing Infiltrators tech powers and didn't quite know how to run with out them.

Modifié par Golden Owl, 01 juin 2011 - 02:47 .

[Ice Cold J]

The greatest shooting game ever would combine the shooting elements of Halo and CoD and the squad tactics of Star Wars: Republic Commando.
SWRC was an excellent game that not enough people played.

[DrRedrum]

I don't even know of any game that has anything close to the squad base combat of Republic Commando. What an unique game.

[Ship.wreck_]

thurmanator692 wrote...

I always use HE on my sniper, its the only way to utilize it to full efficiency.

Exactly, that's what I'm sayin!

Golden Owl wrote...

Ship.wreck wrote...

Not necessary with the HE Shotgun

But thanks, I noticed that

Blah, blah, blah...my guns bigger than yours......

Actually, come to think of it, I did run a femShep through for hubby as a soldier in ME1 and did apply HE to her Shot Gun, but probably missed it's effectiveness as I just wasn't getting the hang of Soldier very well, spent a lot of time dying...... I think I was really missing Infiltrators tech powers and didn't quite know how to run with out them.

As a matter of fact... my gun IS bigger than yours!

I'm the exact opposite! I can't deal with all those powers and the menus and stuff. I'm all action, I guess when your only tool is a gun every problem looks like a target   And by, "only tool" I mean, "preffered tool." And by, "every problem" I mean, "every person place and thing in your field of view." In all my playthroughs I've still never really used even the soldier powers! The only thing I do use is Unity. I personally don't even think soldiers should have any powers, that just seems like it should be a biotic exclusive thing. Except in ME2 where the "powers" were actually just special ammunitions. Like I said though, you gotta get the achievments, don't even need to complete the game, just get those achievments so you can have a Biotic who's ALSO a weapons expert!

Ice Cold J wrote...

The greatest shooting game ever would combine the shooting elements of Halo and CoD and the squad tactics of Star Wars: Republic Commando.
SWRC was an excellent game that not enough people played.

EDIT:
Tactics doesn't only exist on a squad level. Tactics go all the way down to how individuals move and even how they breathe. Granted the breathing part isn't going to factor into video games as much except in clunky sniping systems. But individual movement is VERY important for good tactics. Halo and CoD have always been run-n-gun games which is essentially the antithesis of tactics. Other games like SOCOM (old ones I haven't played 4) where you can peek and lean around cover manually WITHOUT a clunky and slow "Cover System" are far superior in terms of individual movement and shooting. Even games like Splinter Cell Double Agent where the player could switch shoulders with his weapon to negotiate different angles in different directions, had better shooting mechanics than CoD. Tactical movement is all about line of sight, you need to be able to adjust your characters stance as necessary such that as they move around any given corner their weapon and eye are lined up to the extreme side of the stance, so that as they move around the corner they can gain a line of sight to shoot enemies on the other side, and ONLY expose half of their head, a little bit of their should and the gun barrel, making them the smallest target possible. In CoD it was impossible to do that, so it was impossible to execute even the most basic forms of tactical movement like "cutting corners". You could try to, but the whole right side of your character's body would be sticking out past the corner and exposed to enemy fire before you could even get your gun barrel past that corner. That's on the good side. Going around a corner in the oposite direction you'd be exposing 75% of your silouhette as a target before you could achieve line of sight....

Anyway, I accept your basic point that the best tactical shooting game would combine both more immersive first person pov shooting and squad tactics. But the examples of fps weren't that great. The best shooting game would incorporate the lean and peek actions of old SOCOM with the switch stance ability of games like SC Double Agent and the squad tactics of games like old SOCOM and this Star Wars game that I don't know anything about (see below).

DrRedrum wrote...

I don't even know of any game that has anything close to the squad base combat of Republic Commando. What an unique game.

I've never seen this one before  The best game I've ever played in terms of tactics were the OLDER SOCOM games because of all the control you had over squad manuvers through the Orders Menu. It's a four man SEAL team that breaks down into two fireteams. The AI on your fireteam obeys a "Two man rule" and won't move or allow you to move a certain distance away, while the second fire team obeys the same rule with each other. But you have very detailed controll over what Bravo (the second fireteam) does. You can order them to move to your crosshairs, move to any of the points of intrest and/or waypoints on the maps. You can even tell them how to move there, slowly and stealthily, quickly with no regard for stealth, or at their own discression as fast as they can without being seen so like crawling through bushes where theres badguys watching, and running where no one's looking etc. You can tell them to hold fire, fire at will on any target they can, designate specific targets for takedowns, have them overwatch areas where any badguy they see pops up on your map, have them lay supressive fire on areas, deploy explosives like grenades on enemy positions that you don't have a line of sight on, deploy charges on items designated for demolition (you can actually have them place charges anywhere you actually have to figure out based on your map what you're supposed to be blowing up haha!), you can have the whole team group together and actually carry out dynamic entry (SWAT style tactics), escort hostages to points on the map, the list just goes on and on... although that was probably most of it. The AI on your fireteam is slightly more limited because he operates only within a certain range of you, but there's alot of the same stuff you can have him do too... well all of it as long as it's within that range.

Anyway, the newer SOCOMs (and from what I've heard SOCOM4 as well), severely dumbed down the orders menu system for people that didn't like actually having controll of their team, of course God forbid those guys just NOT use the orders system if they dislike it so much, so that those of us who know how to use it can enjoy.

Anwya I'm really curios to hear how this Star Wars system works (not a title I would have expected to be particularly tactical). What's up with that?

Modifié par Ship.wreck , 01 juin 2011 - 07:10 .

[DrRedrum]

Oh yeah, the SOCOM games were before my time. I saw my friend play it once though and it looked really complicated especially for my 10 year old self back then.

[Ship.wreck_]

DrRedrum wrote...

Oh yeah, the SOCOM games were before my time. I saw my friend play it once though and it looked really complicated especially for my 10 year old self back then.

It could be very complicated to your advantage if you used the system to it's potential. But then there was no requirement to use the system, if you didn't like playing tactically you could run and gun the whole game. It would be a lot less effective than you could be, but it could work...

Anyway, how did Republic Comando work?

[Ice Cold J]

DrRedrum wrote...

I don't even know of any game that has anything close to the squad base combat of Republic Commando. What an unique game.

It's nice to see someone else appreciated this diamind in the rough.

Ship.wreck wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...

The greatest shooting game ever would combine the shooting elements of Halo and CoD and the squad tactics of Star Wars: Republic Commando.
SWRC was an excellent game that not enough people played.

EDIT:
Tactics doesn't only exist on a squad level. Tactics go all the way down to how individuals move and even how they breathe. Granted the breathing part isn't going to factor into video games as much except in clunky sniping systems. But individual movement is VERY important for good tactics. Halo and CoD have always been run-n-gun games which is essentially the antithesis of tactics. Other games like SOCOM (old ones I haven't played 4) where you can peek and lean around cover manually WITHOUT a clunky and slow "Cover System" are far superior in terms of individual movement and shooting. Even games like Splinter Cell Double Agent where the player could switch shoulders with his weapon to negotiate different angles in different directions, had better shooting mechanics than CoD. Tactical movement is all about line of sight, you need to be able to adjust your characters stance as necessary such that as they move around any given corner their weapon and eye are lined up to the extreme side of the stance, so that as they move around the corner they can gain a line of sight to shoot enemies on the other side, and ONLY expose half of their head, a little bit of their should and the gun barrel, making them the smallest target possible. In CoD it was impossible to do that, so it was impossible to execute even the most basic forms of tactical movement like "cutting corners". You could try to, but the whole right side of your character's body would be sticking out past the corner and exposed to enemy fire before you could even get your gun barrel past that corner. That's on the good side. Going around a corner in the oposite direction you'd be exposing 75% of your silouhette as a target before you could achieve line of sight....

Anyway, I accept your basic point that the best tactical shooting game would combine both more immersive first person pov shooting and squad tactics. But the examples of fps weren't that great. The best shooting game would incorporate the lean and peek actions of old SOCOM with the switch stance ability of games like SC Double Agent and the squad tactics of games like old SOCOM and this Star Wars game that I don't know anything about (see below).

DrRedrum wrote...

I don't even know of any game that has anything close to the squad base combat of Republic Commando. What an unique game.

I've never seen this one before  The best game I've ever played in terms of tactics were the OLDER SOCOM games because of all the control you had over squad manuvers through the Orders Menu. It's a four man SEAL team that breaks down into two fireteams. The AI on your fireteam obeys a "Two man rule" and won't move or allow you to move a certain distance away, while the second fire team obeys the same rule with each other. But you have very detailed controll over what Bravo (the second fireteam) does. You can order them to move to your crosshairs, move to any of the points of intrest and/or waypoints on the maps. You can even tell them how to move there, slowly and stealthily, quickly with no regard for stealth, or at their own discression as fast as they can without being seen so like crawling through bushes where theres badguys watching, and running where no one's looking etc. You can tell them to hold fire, fire at will on any target they can, designate specific targets for takedowns, have them overwatch areas where any badguy they see pops up on your map, have them lay supressive fire on areas, deploy explosives like grenades on enemy positions that you don't have a line of sight on, deploy charges on items designated for demolition (you can actually have them place charges anywhere you actually have to figure out based on your map what you're supposed to be blowing up haha!), you can have the whole team group together and actually carry out dynamic entry (SWAT style tactics), escort hostages to points on the map, the list just goes on and on... although that was probably most of it. The AI on your fireteam is slightly more limited because he operates only within a certain range of you, but there's alot of the same stuff you can have him do too... well all of it as long as it's within that range.

Anyway, the newer SOCOMs (and from what I've heard SOCOM4 as well), severely dumbed down the orders menu system for people that didn't like actually having controll of their team, of course God forbid those guys just NOT use the orders system if they dislike it so much, so that those of us who know how to use it can enjoy.

Anwya I'm really curios to hear how this Star Wars system works (not a title I would have expected to be particularly tactical). What's up with that?

In my opinion, unless you have a shooter that is Kinect-supported, the kind of "single-player" tactics you're talking about aren't possible. Then again, I've never played SOCOM, so I dunno.

Star Wars: Republic Commando was a FPS, but you were part of a four-man squad of which you were the "ranking officer." You could issue individual commands to your squad or have them form up and even have them execute squad organized door-breaches and other maneuvers.

Pretty simply implemented, too. Certain actions were available at cersion points: different types of cover could be used to lob grenades, use anti-armor charges, snipe, set traps, plant mines. I thought it was rather extensive, and this was back in, say, 2003. I can only imagine what they could've implemented had they been allowed to make a sequel or even a franchise out of it.

[Ship.wreck_]

Ice Cold J wrote...
In my opinion, unless you have a shooter that is Kinect-supported, the kind of "single-player" tactics you're talking about aren't possible. Then again, I've never played SOCOM, so I dunno.

Not at all, I'm not even sure if those systems are advanced enough to perfectly replicate your real world stance in the video game. Plus it'll be harder to teach people to actually do it (not THAT complicated but still). It would be much easier to do this just using a regular controller, all you need is to push three buttons, lean left button, lean right button, and switch stance button. It works ok in MOH Rising Sun, fine in SOCOM, and even better in splinter cell, and good in MOH too. Also these aren't single player tactics they're just tactics at all. Taking them out for multi player games like COD and MOH online doesn't represent some other different "multiplayer" tactics it represents a LACK of tactics in multiplayer, which is sad. God forbid players online actually get good enough to kill eachother when they have the ability to use cover effectively.

Star Wars: Republic Commando was a FPS, but you were part of a four-man squad of which you were the "ranking officer." You could issue individual commands to your squad or have them form up and even have them execute squad organized door-breaches and other maneuvers.

Pretty simply implemented, too. Certain actions were available at cersion points: different types of cover could be used to lob grenades, use anti-armor charges, snipe, set traps, plant mines. I thought it was rather extensive, and this was back in, say, 2003. I can only imagine what they could've implemented had they been allowed to make a sequel or even a franchise out of it.

That sounds AWESOME! What system is it on?

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What system is it onnnnnnnnn????