341 réponses à ce sujet

[Merced652]

Remember guys, its important to not do another 180, lest our fans gets dizzy and fall down the well.

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

Elhanan wrote...

I get the idea of researching and reviewing materials before purchasing; did this myself with TW products, and have passed on them.

I get voting by pocketbook; pass on products with which you might have issues of contention (eg; reused areas).

What I fail to understand is complaining about a product that went unpurchased, even going as far to complain over a letter of apology made to those that did purchase the game. No sympathy here; just sounds like the cork being pulled on another bottle of whine,,,,

Personally, my hope is that Bioware sees, what is in my opinion, the error in their ways. Many of us, myself included, still value the universe that was introduced in DAO, and are saddened by what we see. 

For that matter, I'm not complaining about the letter of apology. It's more along the lines of a combination between "Too little, too late" and "We warned you, you've made your bed, and you've had to sleep in it". I sincerely hope with their next release they take the criticism of their base more seriously beforehand, and work with that criticism to make a better game. 

It's a warning, if you will.

Deathwurm wrote...

It's really that simple.

You can say the sky is green, but that doesn't make it so.

Modifié par TonyTheBossDanza123, 27 mai 2011 - 10:13 .

[Thandal N'Lyman]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Thandal NLyman wrote...
...[Edit]  "Things that make you go hmmm..."  Scroll through the thread and notice the incredibly high percentage of posts by people who (judging by their game badges) don't actually have DA2.   

This isn't so much a thread about the quality of the game as it is about the quality of the "Bioware" that made the game, and the events leading up to the games release.

Which "quality" you are detemining based on the reports of others, (not having purchased, or apparently even played) the game yourself. 

What I'm saying is that when I read such opinions, knowing that they are based on second-  (or more-) hand knowledge, I discount them very heavily.  And for you to have started what is basically a "slam BioWare" topic, rather than responding directly to Mr. Laidlaw's "open letter" in its thread, without  first-hand experience of the product under discussion seems more than a little, impertinent... to put it mildly.

If you're gong to address its shortcomings, then come back and tell him (and the rest of us) what's "wrong" with DA2 after you've played it. 

Modifié par Thandal NLyman, 27 mai 2011 - 10:15 .

[Deathwurm]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Deathwurm wrote...

It's really that simple.

You can say the sky is green, but that doesn't make it so.

It really isn't that hard a Concept to grasp...so I'm simply going to assume that you're being obtuse and give up.
Whine away about a Game you haven't played all you want.

[Elhanan]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Personally, my hope is that Bioware sees, what is in my opinion, the error in their ways. Many of us, myself included, still value the universe that was introduced in DAO, and are saddened by what we see. 

For that matter, I'm not complaining about the letter of apology. It's more along the lines of a combination between "Too little, too late" and "We warned you, you've made your bed, and you've had to sleep in it". I sincerely hope with their next release they take the criticism of their base more seriously beforehand, and work with that criticism to make a better game. 

It's a warning, if you will....

It seems to be "a warning" without substance. If you already have taken your funds from the project, and insist on having them sleep on unmade beds, there is not much left to say that appears to merit acknowledgement.

I recommend joining other threads that ask for input on the Forums made available to you. And for those that do so, stop making demands, accusations, and the like, and offer courteous suggestions, fedback, and recommendations.

Just a thought....

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

Thandal NLyman wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Thandal NLyman wrote...
...[Edit]  "Things that make you go hmmm..."  Scroll through the thread and notice the incredibly high percentage of posts by people who (judging by their game badges) don't actually have DA2.   

This isn't so much a thread about the quality of the game as it is about the quality of the "Bioware" that made the game, and the events leading up to the games release.

Which "quality" you are detemining based on the reports of others, (not having purchased, or apparently even played) the game yourself. 

What I'm saying is that when I read such opinions, knowing that they are based on second-  (or more-) hand knowledge, I discount them very heavily.  And for you to have started what is basically a "slam BioWare" topic, rather than responding dricetly to Mr. Laidlaw's "open letter" without  first-hand experience of the product under discussion seems more than a little, impertinent... to put it mildly.

If you're gong to address it's shortcomings, then come back and tell him (and the rest of us) what's "wrong" with DA2 after you've played it. 

This is in no way a "Slam Bioware" topic, and I get the feeling you are one of few who agree. Clearly by Mr. Eplers responses he, and Bioware, don't feel that way either. Secondly, I'd love to have responded directly to Laidlaw's post, but sadly he put it in a forum you need to have a registered copy of the game to post in. Again, Mr. Epler has agreed that we who did not purchase the game need a place to discuss his post, and has sensibly decided not to lock the topic.



Secondly, so you're argument is: "Buy a game that reviewers, videos, friends, and the demo all say you don't and won't enjoy, THEN you get to critique it"? Do you work for EA? I'm just curious, because you seem awfully insistent on me giving them money for something I don't want. Give me a free copy of DA2 and I'll play it.


There's this large misconception that you NEED to play the full game to know whether you like it or not. I'm going to tell you, and the others in this thread, that that's blatantly false. Thats the reason we have videos, demo's, and reviews. We aren't illinformed, we aren't people who came to this forum to complain about a game we know nothing about. Many of us have done research, many of us have followed DA2 for months before it released, and after it released.

You don't need to experience something for it to be true. If 9/10 people tell me that a new restauraunt has terrible food, am I obliged to eat that food, and pay for it, to say it has terrible food? Are you telling me that those 9/10 people are lying unless I eat there too? 

I can see the validity in disregarding the opinions of someone who knows nothing, or little about the item at hand. I'm not complaining about the story because I know very little about the story of DA2, only the premise. I'm complaining about the way the transparent development and buildup to DA2 was handled because I experienced that first hand.

[Ottemis]

I don't think you need the game to decide whether or not it's for you, but then coming on the official boards for that game (you decided not to buy due to the second+ hand info you picked up) and complain about it, I don't know.

You certainly can't claim to know everything, how can you form an honest opinion on a game that you haven't played in any 'official' way, or better yet, argue points (that aren't yours) against those of people who DO have 1st-person experience?

Also, you know, I said this somewhere before.. Knowing about certain cons in a game can really ruin you to the experience beforehand. Might not even be as prominent to you in effect as it would to others.
I know there's no way around this, but especially when you've NOT played a game, staying openminded when (and despite of) people who HAVE give their opinions, both good and bad, would seem logical no?

Also, without context, little has the volume it would have WITH context. That's often lacking when reading reviews or basing an opinion on 'snippets', but I reckon you can all imagine this.

Modifié par Ottemis, 27 mai 2011 - 10:47 .

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

Deathwurm wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Deathwurm wrote...

It's really that simple.

You can say the sky is green, but that doesn't make it so.

It really isn't that hard a Concept to grasp...so I'm simply going to assume that you're being obtuse and give up.
Whine away about a Game you haven't played all you want.

See my previous post, as I addressed this thourougly.

Elhanan wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Personally, my hope is that Bioware sees, what is in my opinion, the error in their ways. Many of us, myself included, still value the universe that was introduced in DAO, and are saddened by what we see. 

For that matter, I'm not complaining about the letter of apology. It's more along the lines of a combination between "Too little, too late" and "We warned you, you've made your bed, and you've had to sleep in it". I sincerely hope with their next release they take the criticism of their base more seriously beforehand, and work with that criticism to make a better game. 

It's a warning, if you will....

It seems to be "a warning" without substance. If you already have taken your funds from the project, and insist on having them sleep on unmade beds, there is not much left to say that appears to merit acknowledgement.

I recommend joining other threads that ask for input on the Forums made available to you. And for those that do so, stop making demands, accusations, and the like, and offer courteous suggestions, fedback, and recommendations.

Just a thought....

I'm a little lost as to your point. What do you mean "WIthout substance"? I'm sorry, but I don't see what your getting at. Why are you in this thread? What are you arguing for or against? Is it of your opinion that my original post was unwarranted? That I shouldn't have made this thread? That's fine, but you aren't contributing to the dicussion, nor is it relevant whether you think that or not.

I don't mean to sound rude, but it seems to me like your post is "without substance", that you're merely defending Bioware for the sake of defending Bioware, something that they don't need, especially  not in this thread.

Modifié par TonyTheBossDanza123, 27 mai 2011 - 10:33 .

[Elhanan]

The so-called warning lacks teeth, punch, power, etc; end result is that you still keep your money in your wallets. It just comes across as a rant, IMO.

Make some lemonade instead....

[Jerrybnsn]

[

.

If you're gong to address it's shortcomings, then come back and tell him (and the rest of us) what's "wrong" with DA2 after you've played it. 

If I may jump in.  I played the demo, and there was quite a bit there that I saw and experience that became main themes of people who played and reviewed it.  When I criticise the game it's about aspects that I am aware of through my experience.  I might add about waves of enemies or re-used maps, but that is because those issues have been addressed sooooo much in these forums and in game reviews that I feel I can complain about them.

Like Game Informer says "We play the crap, so you don't have to."

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

Elhanan wrote...

The so-called warning lacks teeth, punch, power, etc; end result is that you still keep your money in your wallets. It just comes across as a rant, IMO.

Make some lemonade instead....

The end result is that I keep my money for DA2, but maybe they'll learn and I'll buy their next game.

[Jerrybnsn]

and I complain about the fugly elves because I've seen pics and vids on the game. And I have no intention of ever buying the game.

[DanaScu]

Thandal NLyman wrote...

I'm coming to this thread a little late, and I'm not going to scroll through over 200 posts to see if there was an update, but did I read the OP correctly?!?

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

 So Since I was one of the many who waited for reviews to buy DA2, and consequently DIDN'T buy DA2...

Someone starts a topic to argue about comments made by the developer, regarding a product that they DIDN'T  buy?

I can almost see where this might have been appropriate as a post to that  thread, but to start a new one simply to argue the points that Mr. Laidlaw raised, (from the other perspective) seems both superfluous and more than a bit mean-spirited.

Based on the lack of a DA2 badge under the OP's avi, I'm guessing that they stuck with "didn't buy".  So I have to wonder if their opinions are based on second- (or third-) hand information.  And while it may not be totally without value, I heavily discount what someone thinks about a game they haven't played.  Gaming experiences are too subjective for one to make broad generalizations based on someone else's summary theirs.  I might make my own purchase decision that way, but I would never believe that I'm then in a position to tell the developer what's wrong with their creation. 

[Edit]  "Things that make you go hmmm..."  Scroll through the thread and notice the incredibly high percentage of posts by people who (judging by their game badges) don't actually have DA2.  

My younger, not as smart imo brother didn't listen to what I told him about the game. He bought it. He started playing it. He didn't make it farther than the beginning of act 2. He lost interest in it and quit playing it. I borrowed it. I played it. I forced myself to finish it. I could have registered a copy for me; I did play it. But I didn't buy it. I don't want anyone reading the issues I had with the game's direction to think I was enough of a sheeple to buy a game that I knew from the demo that I was going to really strongly dislike just because it was something that EABioware shoved out the door. I gave the game back to him, btw. Not that it will matter. Once he loses interest in a game he isn't going to ever bother to finish it.

I really hate to break the news to you, but the console version doesn't have a unique code. You can find it easily with a google search and register the game whether you bought it or not. Remember the idiot giraffe spammer? He was posting on multiple accounts in the super special "registered game owners only General forum" and every account he was making as fast as he was being banned had the game registered. If he actually bought all those copies, the sales figures for DA2 would be a lot higher. Registering a copy of the game doesn't mean anything.

Since Mr. Laidlaw seems to think its safer posting in the registered owner's only forum, when it really makes not the slightest bit of difference, the only way we, the players who "can't adjust to change" or whatever the latest comment on people who have played the game and have legitimate criticism have to discuss what Mr. Laidlaw posted is to make a separate thread to discuss it here, in the "Wilds".

[Elhanan]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...
[
The end result is that I keep my money for DA2, but maybe they'll learn and I'll buy their next game.

And my point is that this approach seems weaker than using alternative methods. This just comes across as a whine, IMO.

[AngelicMachinery]

I can't believe the rage is still burning this bright after such a long time. It's kinda funny.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

I would personally like another
180. Didn't feel this 180 was even necesarry, really. I mean the combat needed to get rid of the shuffling. Everything else was a trope and needed to be shaken up.

Fixed.

AngelicMachinery wrote...

I can't believe the rage is still burning this bright after such a long time. It's kinda funny.

Ain't it just?  :D:D

Modifié par RinpocheSchnozberry, 27 mai 2011 - 10:53 .

[DanaScu]

Ottemis wrote...

I don't think you need the game to decide whether or not it's for you, but then coming on the official boards for that game (you decided not to buy due to the second+ hand info you picked up) and complain about it, I don't know.

You certainly can't claim to know everything, how can you form an honest opinion on a game that you haven't played in any 'official' way, or better yet, argue points (that aren't yours) against those of people who DO have 1st-person experience?

Also, you know, I said this somewhere before.. Knowing about certain cons in a game can really ruin you to the experience beforehand. Might not even be as prominent to you in effect as it would to others.
I know there's no way around this, but especially when you've NOT played a game, staying openminded when (and despite of) people who HAVE give their opinions, both good and bad, would seem logical no?

Also, without context, little has the volume it would have WITH context. That's often lacking when reading reviews or basing an opinion on 'snippets', but I reckon you can all imagine this.

Would be a better argument had that demo not been released, with all the attendant hype, get seventy gazillion of your friends to download it and even more "free" dlc if the numbers were reached as a bribe. Does playing the demo EABioware thought was a fair representation [a demo is supposed to be that, no?] of the game count as gaining an opinion in an "official" way?

[Ottemis]

DanaScu wrote...

Since Mr. Laidlaw seems to think its safer posting in the registered owner's only forum, when it really makes not the slightest bit of difference, the only way we, the players who "can't adjust to change" or whatever the latest comment on people who have played the game and have legitimate criticism have to discuss what Mr. Laidlaw posted is to make a separate thread to discuss it here, in the "Wilds". 

><
I don't get this argument. 
It's logical to me he would adress the game owners?
Are you frustrated because you can't moan in that specific topic because you don't own the game you were planning to moan about? If you had anything positive to say, you'd not be so focussed on this.
Regardless of where you post your opinion, I'm sure it's still heard.

You can moarn over the loss of what you hoped DA2 would have been without being able to respond directly to Laidlaw's post, and you can just aswell appreciate DAO all the more aswell. They didn't steal something from you, you just didn't get what you hoped for the SECOND time around.

Modifié par Ottemis, 27 mai 2011 - 11:00 .

[Ottemis]

DanaScu wrote...

Ottemis wrote...

I don't think you need the game to decide whether or not it's for you, but then coming on the official boards for that game (you decided not to buy due to the second+ hand info you picked up) and complain about it, I don't know.

You certainly can't claim to know everything, how can you form an honest opinion on a game that you haven't played in any 'official' way, or better yet, argue points (that aren't yours) against those of people who DO have 1st-person experience?

Also, you know, I said this somewhere before.. Knowing about certain cons in a game can really ruin you to the experience beforehand. Might not even be as prominent to you in effect as it would to others.
I know there's no way around this, but especially when you've NOT played a game, staying openminded when (and despite of) people who HAVE give their opinions, both good and bad, would seem logical no?

Also, without context, little has the volume it would have WITH context. That's often lacking when reading reviews or basing an opinion on 'snippets', but I reckon you can all imagine this.

Would be a better argument had that demo not been released, with all the attendant hype, get seventy gazillion of your friends to download it and even more "free" dlc if the numbers were reached as a bribe. Does playing the demo EABioware thought was a fair representation [a demo is supposed to be that, no?] of the game count as gaining an opinion in an "official" way?

I don't think it was a fair representation tbh, I honestly thought the demo was dull, while I thought the game was awesome, go figure =P A 30 minute demo cannot represent a 30 hour game in the end, especially not with an RPG (or hybrid whatever you want to call the beast).

Was it a good representation of combat? Sure
Did it introduce some aspects of the story to you? Yep
Did it give a glance at some of the changes over DAO? Yeah, sure.
Did it represent the game? IMHO Nope, not at all. Scratching the surface.

In my mind that's only logical though, I didn't expect it to. It's a snippet in the end.

Modifié par Ottemis, 27 mai 2011 - 11:10 .

[Vice-Admiral von Titsling]

The same bunch of bull**** as before. Nothing has changed, and he hasn't learned anything.

He fully intends to take DA3 down the path that DA2 started into full-blown meltdown, consequences be damned. Anything for that last desperate chance at those CoD player dollars, right?

Thanks are in order for Laidlaw....for saving a lot of people $60 that they might otherwise have wasted on DA3.

[DanaScu]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

I would personally like another
180. Didn't feel this 180 was even necesarry, really. I mean the combat needed to get rid of the shuffling. Everything else was a trope and needed to be shaken up.

Fixed.

AngelicMachinery wrote...

I can't believe the rage is still burning this bright after such a long time. It's kinda funny.

Ain't it just?  :D:D

You know, you are the perfect audience for the new direction in EABioware games. Extremely short main quest, no long involved story, no inventory to keep track of, superfastandshinycombat, long stretches of cinematics that require no input from the player, voiced character [don't want to strain any imagination or anything], linear railroaded story; all of that is perfection for you.

If they keep streamlining, simplifying, restricting, and limiting, they might someday manage to make a game that even you wouldn't play. It would be interesting to see what that would take.

[Scimal]

[quote]TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

That's a blatant assumption and lie. Bioware hasn't made a title like DAO in years, nor has many other companies. Sure they've made RPG's with choices and paths, but we're not talking about "Choices and Paths", we're talking about the style of game that DAO was.[/quote]

I suppose it comes down to what we each consider to be "like" to DA:O. I'm sorry I didn't clarify it sooner, but to me they have. DA:O is a game where you're a quasi-unique protagonist who recruits companions to help in combat whie pursuing some goal, and the mechanics are a third-person view, hotkey bar to assign abilities, the ability to issue commands to your companions, and various bits and pieces. To me, BioWare doesn't really make different games.


[quote]
While I won't go through the trouble of finding specifics, I'm going to point out that "Gaming Sites" and "Official Reviews" aren't the only reviews out there. In fact, we have this wonderful thing called Metacritic which shows official reviews AND user reviews. Not to mention forums around the web.[/quote]

While I won't pretend that gaming review sites are somehow an objective measure of a game's worth or quality, after reading well over a dozen reviews - some favorable, some not so favorable - from "professional" reviewers, they all have the combat mechanics and visual style praise in common.

Yes, there are user reviews - but unfortunately sites like Metacritic only offer as much useful data as their limitations allow. No, not all of the user reviews on Metacritic are horribly biased, but take a look at the thread in these very forums which asks formites to rate DA:O and DA2.

You'll notice something very, very peculiar... No 0's. Not a single one in the several pages I looked through, yet Metacritic is composed of competing 10's and 0's. It's simply too unreliable in this particular case.

[quote]
Bioware is one of the largest and most critically acclaimed developers in existence. They're owned by EA, the second largest publisher in the industry. They took years to develop DAO, and years to develop ME2. To say that they aren't financially in a position to do so, while possible, is not likely, especially considdering their continued critical and financial success with EVERY game they release excluding DA2. We're not talking about an Indie developer, we're not talking about Mojang and Minecraft, we're talking about an EA owned developer.[/quote]

Well, if I concede that BioWare has the funds to continue making a game for as long as they want, how would you address the rough timetables set for them by EA?

However, I was under the assumption that most studios ran at a deficit or were given a limited budget by publishers until a game was released to pay everything back - thus limiting the amount of time that could be spent on a project before they were simply out of funds. If you can find more information otherwise, feel free to share.

[quote]
So you assault my point as an "Opinion", and then insist that your opinion, that "Second hand critique" is invalid, is truth? There's a blatant contradiction.[/quote]

This is neither an expanation as to how a second-hand critique is a valid one, nor why an invalid critique is warranted.

Also, it is not an "opinion" that second-hand critiques are often invalid. The validity of a critique is in proportion to the personal experience of the person providing the critique and the perceived level of bias present in the critique.

If you experienced less than 5% of the game via screenshots and the Demo, your opinion is less informed than the person's who experienced 10%, 15%, 30%, 60%, 100%, etc.

In essence, by critiquing the game before it is released you are pitting yourself against the people making it - who often play through it several times before release. It is 5% vs. 90-100%. If that seems harsh, well, then it's harsh. That's just how it works. It's why you wouldn't trust a Pre-med student to diagnose your cancer, or why you would hire James Cameron to make your movie instead of your cousin.

[quote]
And yet we weren't wrong. So your argument is we got lucky?[/quote]

Essentially, yes. You had no way of knowing how well DA2 would sell. Even if you had 1,000 friends who each said they weren't going to buy it, you'd have a sample that's not even an error ratio to the actual sales.

If you consistently predict the successful (or lack thereof) outcomes of products produced by various companies, you would be playing the stock market to make millions right now. You would have bought up BW stock before the release of DA:O and subsequent takeover by EA, and you might've shorted EA stock before DA2 was released (though I didn't look up those figures - I just assume it went down).

I assume you are not a multimillionaire hedge-fund director, so I think I'm safe to say you can't do it consistently.

[quote]Yes, hundreds of people got lucky, hundreds of people who have spent years participating in gaming got lucky with a prediction about games. If you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic.[/quote]

You are being sarcastic, but there's no reason to be. Your sentence is perfectly fine.

It happens all the time with lotteries. You can have all the methods you want for choosing your number, but in the end, it just comes down to chance.

Although, that's a bit of an oversimplified view. It might be closer to Blackjack where there are ways to hedge your bets and get a rough idea of your position, but you can never predict the next card you draw. Only the chances of it being the one you want (or don't want).

In the case of DA2, it was simply the card you wanted to get.

[quote]I didn't.[/quote]

Ah, well then. That completely vindicates you of being part of the "Disliked then bought it" crowd... But unfortunately that does place you in a completely different crowd.

[quote]I'm sorry, but why are you here?[/quote]

Because I have some free time and I enjoy debating on occasion.

[quote]You insult me, you insult these posters, and yet your own posts are full of logical fallacies, misunderstandings, degradations, and you putting words in my mouth.[/quote]

You didn't actually point out any logical fallacies, there were some minor misunderstandings, but nothing major that you chose to clear up, I always quoted you directly without modification - and took some measures to make sure I was being clear.

If you feel insulted, feel free to point out the logical fallacies which invalidate my arguments. I'm more than reasonable when faced with proof.

[quote]Yet for the life of me I can't figure out WHY you're posting. To me it just seems argumentitive. The sales figures, the review figures, the past, they all back up my original post.[/quote]

I'm discussing varying views and opinions on a forum dedicated to the game you imply to be a failure.

I wasn't discussing, though, whether or not the game is a failure. I'm pointing out that just because your assumptions correlate, to some extent, with reality doesn't mean that they were valid at the time you made them since you didn't have any predictive capacity in regards to DA2.

I'm also pointing out that the comments made by some of BioWare's employees aren't as insulting, arrogant, or ill-informed as you believe them to be.

[quote]The sales figures defend my point, the reviews defend my point.[/quote]

And what is your point, exactly? I inferred from your OP that the point to this thread was that you were telling BioWare to listen to the concerns and criticisms of a small percentage of their fanbase in regards to games currently in development or the games would fail.

If this is incorrect, feel free to correct me.

[quote]
You can say we got lucky, but the fact of the matter is thats either naievity or denial.
[/quote]

How about this:

If you accurately predict the sales figures of ME3 at least one month before its release, I will concede that you are correct.

[Huntress]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Thandal NLyman wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Thandal NLyman wrote...
...[Edit]  "Things that make you go hmmm..."  Scroll through the thread and notice the incredibly high percentage of posts by people who (judging by their game badges) don't actually have DA2.   

This isn't so much a thread about the quality of the game as it is about the quality of the "Bioware" that made the game, and the events leading up to the games release.

Which "quality" you are detemining based on the reports of others, (not having purchased, or apparently even played) the game yourself. 

What I'm saying is that when I read such opinions, knowing that they are based on second-  (or more-) hand knowledge, I discount them very heavily.  And for you to have started what is basically a "slam BioWare" topic, rather than responding dricetly to Mr. Laidlaw's "open letter" without  first-hand experience of the product under discussion seems more than a little, impertinent... to put it mildly.

If you're gong to address it's shortcomings, then come back and tell him (and the rest of us) what's "wrong" with DA2 after you've played it. 

This is in no way a "Slam Bioware" topic, and I get the feeling you are one of few who agree. Clearly by Mr. Eplers responses he, and Bioware, don't feel that way either. Secondly, I'd love to have responded directly to Laidlaw's post, but sadly he put it in a forum you need to have a registered copy of the game to post in. Again, Mr. Epler has agreed that we who did not purchase the game need a place to discuss his post, and has sensibly decided not to lock the topic.



Secondly, so you're argument is: "Buy a game that reviewers, videos, friends, and the demo all say you don't and won't enjoy, THEN you get to critique it"? Do you work for EA? I'm just curious, because you seem awfully insistent on me giving them money for something I don't want. Give me a free copy of DA2 and I'll play it.


There's this large misconception that you NEED to play the full game to know whether you like it or not. I'm going to tell you, and the others in this thread, that that's blatantly false. Thats the reason we have videos, demo's, and reviews. We aren't illinformed, we aren't people who came to this forum to complain about a game we know nothing about. Many of us have done research, many of us have followed DA2 for months before it released, and after it released.

You don't need to experience something for it to be true. If 9/10 people tell me that a new restauraunt has terrible food, am I obliged to eat that food, and pay for it, to say it has terrible food? Are you telling me that those 9/10 people are lying unless I eat there too? 

I can see the validity in disregarding the opinions of someone who knows nothing, or little about the item at hand. I'm not complaining about the story because I know very little about the story of DA2, only the premise. I'm complaining about the way the transparent development and buildup to DA2 was handled because I experienced that first hand.

If you played the demo ( like I and many others did) let me tell you, alot have changed this 4 months, If you play in a PC many of the things that really annoy us have been removed, thanks to mods.

1)Exploding bodies
2)Bosses drinking potions
3)Mages teleport
4)mages inmune shields
5)Rogues teleports
6)Character speed
7) More valance spells- all characters
8)Companions armors-yes you can put armors on them now.


The list go on and on, and all this have been done without a toolset.
I would like to thanks all the modders out there for making DA2 more enjoyable.

A patch is coming soon, hopefully will add some if not all of this for console players.

Now if you want to complain about the main chracter voice acting, well I can tell you that I love it and using sarcastic+diplomat rules, DA2 is not better that any other game out there, but is fun to play, mages got better this round, thats all I have to say.