341 réponses à ce sujet

[abaris]

Ottemis wrote...


No. I just think you shouldn't insult developers in doing their jobs WELL (also under conditions), even if the product doesn't agree with your personal preferences. Personally I think there's disrespect in not recognizing that these people at bioware stuck years of their lives in a product, and some of the posters here turn around and insult their skill and profession on a personal level. I think that's dispicable.

To hell with that!

Dramatic pause.

Not because I disrespect any of them. I don't know them personally, but they are people. Yet I can only judge them by their work. They're part of a machinery that's called Bioware and being part of a mother company named Electronic Art. They're not sacrificing themselves for our happiness. They work for a paycheck just like everybody else does. And the ones writing these paychecks want to sell a product.

Its as inpersonal as can be.

[TheMadCat]

Ottemis wrote...

No. I just think you shouldn't insult developers in doing their jobs WELL (also under conditions), even if the product doesn't agree with your personal preferences. Personally I think there's disrespect in not recognizing that these people at bioware stuck years of their lives in a product, and some of the posters here turn around and insult their skill and profession on a personal level. I think that's dispicable.

You're acting like they did this out of the kindness of their heart. They do this because it's they're job, it what they're paid to do. If they don't meet the expected quality then they deserve criticism. It's simply business from both ends.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 27 mai 2011 - 08:04 .

[abaris]

Nozybidaj wrote...

/shrug Actions always speak louder than words.  If you didn't get the memo after ME2 the writing on the wall should be pretty clear after DA2 shouldn't it?

I actually enjoyed ME2. I would say there a quite some lightyears between this last baby and ME2.

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

1.) You couldn't possibly do any better. (If you could you would be working with some company already)

You don't need to be a Chef to critique the food you eat. 

3.) Even if the rarest of rare things happened(I.E. the haters moved on with their lives) and did not buy the next title, guess what? Bioware wouldn't notice or care. So a few whiners are gone? Big deal. The fact is that in the millions of units they'll sell, the few people(let's say about twenty) on here that claim the hate the game don't matter in the slightest. (Dare I say some of them deserve to get "the finger from Bioware" as one poster claimed was the case.

We're not talking about a few people. We're not talking about 20 people, we're talking about hundreds of thousands of people. Theres an old scenario I'm reminded of, back before we had forums and the internet where anonymity and instant dev replies existed. For every 1 complaint a studio got about a product, they attributed an arbitrary number of "Dissatisified Customers" that didn't send them a letter, but agreed with that letter.

AlanC9 wrote...

ItsTheTruth wrote...
But a LOT more people think DA2 sucks.

http://www.metacriti...ii/user-reviews

Don't be in denial: the game sucked, that is why people hate it.

It is as if ****** Sapiens (DAO) evolved into a species of one-legged blind monkeys (DA2).

A system that easily spoofed can't be used as an objective measurement of anything. Though I guess we're pretty safe in saying that DA2 inspired some unusually devoted haters.

Oh god, now you're going to claim that all the reviews are fake? How convenient. 

[General Malor]

inkjay wrote...

Ottemis wrote...

General Malor wrote...
1.) You couldn't possibly do any better. (If you could you would be working with some company already)

2.) I enjoyed the game so you're all wrong. (What!? He just turned the whole "I think it's bad so it must be bad for everyone" argument against me!)

qft

So basically your opinion is, if you can't do a better game than Bioware you shouldn't criticize them? LOL indeed.

That's not the opinion of my statement at all. What I meant is that a given gamer who whines about a product is sure of one thing and a liar about another. The first thing he or she is sure of is that he or she does not like the product. That is a true and accurate statement. The second thing they are a liar about is thinking they know how to improve the product. They know what they want to see, but they have no idea the amount of effort it takes to craft a game with broad appeal. So when they say "this feature doesn't work, do this instead" they are liars due to ignorance.

Now don't get the second point confused with reviews or constructive criticism. That is a beast of a different nature.

I can simplify it done to the difference of saying "I thought this could work better because of the following reason" and "I know this would work better because I like this better, and you guys don't know what you're doing". It's not only about tone or context, it's the whole approached and follow through.

[Bio-Age]

LiquidGrape wrote...

TheConfidenceMan wrote...

Sorry Laidlaw, but it's too little, too late. Nothing less than an acknowledgement that you screwed up with DA2 and that you'll be going back to Origins as a baseline for Dragon Age 3 will suffice.

Here you go. I think you'll need it.

But really, don't you think that is being a tad unreasonable?
Considering the game sold quite well, was overall praised by critics and, while certainly polarising, does have a considerable amount of support on the forums, why should he "acknowledge" any such thing?

He wrote a lucid and comprehensive posts about his thoughts following the reaction to DA2, and is apparently taking key complaints into consideration. I don't know what more you can ask for.

Since you want to play with  images - here's one for you - next time think twice before posting an image.

Modifié par Bio-Age, 27 mai 2011 - 08:09 .

[the_one_54321]

Ottemis wrote...
No. I just think you shouldn't insult developers in doing their jobs WELL (also under conditions), even if the product doesn't agree with your personal preferences. Personally I think there's disrespect in not recognizing that these people at bioware stuck years of their lives in a product, and some of the posters here turn around and insult their skill and profession on a personal level. I think that's despicable.

I mean no disrespect, nor do I think the OP did. However, I feel rather disrespected over all this. I feel like I've been treated as though I'm stupid and would fall for smoke and mirrors tactics and I'm not too happy about that at all.

Also, in point of fact, DAII took less than 1.5 years to complete and was loaded with things that are objectively bad from a design point of view, not a personal preference point of view. Things like reused areas that were barely even skinned over to cover their reuse. Things like badguys that parachute right on top of you from the sky. Over and over. Numerous instances of internal inconsistencies in the game.

And then of course there remains the fact that a significant portion of the original DA:O fans told them over and over and over that the direction of this game was not the direction they wanted to see, but they did it anyway while promising us that it would remain true to DA:O in a number of specific ways and then breaking those promises.

[Nozybidaj]

abaris wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

/shrug Actions always speak louder than words.  If you didn't get the memo after ME2 the writing on the wall should be pretty clear after DA2 shouldn't it?

I actually enjoyed ME2. I would say there a quite some lightyears between this last baby and ME2.

Whether you enjoyed either game or not is irrelevant.  The direction you were asking for clarification on seems pretty clear to me.  Opinions on whether that is good or bad wasn't my point.

[Ottemis]

abaris wrote...

Ottemis wrote...


No. I just think you shouldn't insult developers in doing their jobs WELL (also under conditions), even if the product doesn't agree with your personal preferences. Personally I think there's disrespect in not recognizing that these people at bioware stuck years of their lives in a product, and some of the posters here turn around and insult their skill and profession on a personal level. I think that's dispicable.

To hell with that!

Dramatic pause.

Not because I disrespect any of them. I don't know them personally, but they are people. Yet I can only judge them by their work. They're part of a machinery that's called Bioware and being part of a mother company named Electronic Art. They're not sacrificing themselves for our happiness. They work for a paycheck just like everybody else does. And the ones writing these paychecks want to sell a product.

Its as inpersonal as can be.

Not really, it's a creative 'art' piece. In my opinion, that's what a game is, or rather can be.
Being an artist myself I know you stick parts of yourself in your products. In extention, it is personal in a way.
Expressing one's opinion on a creation is fine, just not as abusive as some do it. It's frankly, inhumane.
Being creative can make you money if you're good yeah, luckily. But it's not the same as someone critisizing someone's math, is it?

Modifié par Ottemis, 27 mai 2011 - 08:17 .

[axl99]

abaris wrote...



Not because I disrespect any of them. I don't know them personally, but they are people. Yet I can only judge them by their work. They're part of a machinery that's called Bioware and being part of a mother company named Electronic Art. They're not sacrificing themselves for our happiness. They work for a paycheck just like everybody else does. And the ones writing these paychecks want to sell a product.

Its as inpersonal as can be.

That goes both ways. 

[abaris]

Ottemis wrote...

Not really, it's a creative 'art' piece. In my opinion, that's what a game is, or rather can be.
Being an artist myself I know you stick parts of yourself in your products. In extention, it is personal in a way.
Expressing one's opinion on a creation is fine, just not as abusive as some do it.

Artists usually don't work for a paycheck, nor are they usually organised in a hierarchy, where a group of people are calling the shots. There probably are artistic ambitions involved, yet they only go as far as the one in charge allows them to go.

Its a job and they are the lucky ones, who actually have a job that interests them. I don't think the majority of customers can claim that for themselves. Nevertheless, they're not Gods gift to Humanity and they aren't our buddies being invited over for barbecue and beer. They're part of a business relationship, of a contract, the customers sign when buying a certain product.

Yes, they don't deserve ad hominems. But their product, if it doesn't rise up to expectations, deserves every criticism it gets. Because its still business and not something being offered out of the kindness of their hearts.

[inkjay]

Ottemis wrote...

No. I just think you shouldn't insult developers in doing their jobs WELL (also under conditions), even if the product doesn't agree with your personal preferences. Personally I think there's disrespect in not recognizing that these people at bioware stuck years of their lives in a product, and some of the posters here turn around and insult them, their skill and profession on a personal level. I think that's dispicable.

As to point two, I think alot of people don't want to see further then their own nose is long, assuming that because they hate it, everyone must and it MUST be a fail product and the direction they took the game in is wrong. Which is a selfish and shortsighted way of expressing yourself. Your opinion is yours, and it's obviously not everyone elses.
Also you can't call your opinion one of the mayority, because you possibly CAN'T know it is for sure, can you?

Oh, so your point is that they are people with feelings, and somehow me telling them their game sucks make them cry to their mommies. Let me share something with you,  they are big boys, and I am sure they can take it, and certainly don't need anyone like you defending them from our harsh harsh words. ;__;

You are mistaken tho, respect goes both ways and to me it is even more disrespectful that they put out a product ike DA2, and scoffed at their fans when they didn't like it. It is disrespectful because it is not the product of people "stucking years of their lives on it", but a rushed mess which only purpose was to please investors. It is disrespectful because they are asking 60 dollars from you, not giving it away out of the kindness of their hearts. I'm sure that was the decision of a few, not of many, and our commentaries are directed at such few.

And yes, I can know for sure how people feel about this game, I'm sorry if you can't out of shortsightedness. Reviews say so, sales say so and general user opinion and this forum's backlash say so. DA2 is a terrible game in the eyes of many, and people like you are part of the problem. Of course I am going to be vocal about that opinion, and if Bioware can't see that, yes, I wish them failure from now until the day they learn some humility and accept it and have the guts to come out and say that they either don't want my money, or they do and apologize profusely for DA2.

Their choice.

[axl99]

Clearly someone's never worked in commercial art or games before - let alone freelanced. Go fig. There's a serious lack of empathy for all the artists involved in DA2, and I find such arbitrary and biased logic that for the actions of few people that the rest of the team has to suffer disgusting.

Modifié par axl99, 27 mai 2011 - 08:22 .

[In Exile]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

 So Since I was one of the many who waited for reviews to buy DA2, and consequently DIDN'T buy DA2, I'm going to address this here. I'm sure it's been said in the official thread, but as someone who loved DAO with a passion, one of the few games this generation I've played through multiple times: Too Little, Too Late.

For months, people on the forums voiced complaints, warned Bioware about the direction they were taking DA2. Quite bluntly, we were told to shove it. We got posts like Gaider's "Stages of A Dragon Age Fan", comparing our fear and anger to that of the stages of Grief. We got other posts saying that "Since we didn't play it yet, we couldn't judge".

I don't think it's the same thing. With DA2, pre-release, the complaints were about design. No one said, if you recycle all of your areas, have a ridiculous wave combat system that just means tons and tons of mooks and add absolutely no choice, where you rise to power by one means alone irrespective of anything you do and have no impact on the final outcome of the game, DA2 will suck.

The criticism was philosophical: remove Origins, add PC VO, mess with FF, don't give us our Warden... DA2 will suck.

This is not saying the same thing at all. I supported the direction Bioware said DA2 was going in. But I don't think anyone expected what we ended up with in alpha build of DA2 we purchased.

[Ottemis]

abaris wrote...

Ottemis wrote...

Not really, it's a creative 'art' piece. In my opinion, that's what a game is, or rather can be.
Being an artist myself I know you stick parts of yourself in your products. In extention, it is personal in a way.
Expressing one's opinion on a creation is fine, just not as abusive as some do it.

Artists usually don't work for a paycheck, nor are they usually organised in a hierarchy, where a group of people are calling the shots. There probably are artistic ambitions involved, yet they only go as far as the one in charge allows them to go.

Its a job and they are the lucky ones, who actually have a job that interests them. I don't think the majority of customers can claim that for themselves. Nevertheless, they're not Gods gift to Humanity and they aren't our buddies being invited over for barbecue and beer. They're part of a business relationship, of a contract, the customers sign when buying a certain product.

Yes, they don't deserve ad hominems. But their product, if it doesn't rise up to expectations, deserves every criticism it gets. Because its still business and not something being offered out of the kindness of their hearts.

Don't misunderstand, I almost fully agree. Just think personal insults go way way way way way too far.
I think we're in agreement here yes?

As to most artists not working for a pay-check.. they prolly would be if there was enough offer, there just isn't jobwise.
But there are TONS of creative professions where, whether or not you're bound by the 'the big man', you still stick bits of you in what you make. It's not a question, it's a fact. There's no way around that.
Also, you think artists enjoy making concessions on their own vision? No =P
In a sense our frustration is probably partly theirs too you know.

@inkjay
You misunderstoold, read again.

Modifié par Ottemis, 27 mai 2011 - 08:32 .

[abaris]

Ottemis wrote...

Don't misunderstand, I fully agree. Just think personal insults go way way way way way too far.
I think we're in agreement here yes?

If you put it that way, yes.

[oldmansavage]

Everyones delicate sensibilities aside I come from a more commercial approach.  You make a product I don't like that I payed good money for then I have every right to spew forth vitriol, rhetoric or reasonable criticism, whichever I prefer.

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

Scimal wrote..

I wouldn't confuse under-exposed to being retro. It may seem to you like it's "so old it's new," but console players haven't been exposed to BW's style nearly as much as PC gamers. BioWare has made the same style of game for over a decade, and it would behoove them to find things to do besides their current style - hence the ME Universe, which is also massively popular.

That's a blatant assumption and lie. Bioware hasn't made a title like DAO in years, nor has many other companies. Sure they've made RPG's with choices and paths, but we're not talking about "Choices and Paths", we're talking about the style of game that DAO was.

This is just your opinion, even if others have it as well.

If you can find me a few reviews on gaming sites that say the visual and mechanical overhaul DA2 received wasn't an improvement, I will bake you a few cookies. So far, even sites which gave the game low scores, still praised the visual and mechanical overhaul. 

While I won't go through the trouble of finding specifics, I'm going to point out that "Gaming Sites" and "Official Reviews" aren't the only reviews out there. In fact, we have this wonderful thing called Metacritic which shows official reviews AND user reviews. Not to mention forums around the web.

While I'll generally agree that more time usually results in more quality, the release schedule is not dictated by intent, but by financial restraints. Very, very few companies can afford to take as much time as they want on games. In fact, out of the dozens of developers, those which are financially secure enough to be able to make AAA titles on their own time could fit on one hand.

BioWare is not one of them, mostly due to the fact that they haven't diversified at all until ME came along.

Bioware is one of the largest and most critically acclaimed developers in existence. They're owned by EA, the second largest publisher in the industry. They took years to develop DAO, and years to develop ME2. To say that they aren't financially in a position to do so, while possible, is not likely, especially considdering their continued critical and financial success with EVERY game they release excluding DA2. We're not talking about an Indie developer, we're not talking about Mojang and Minecraft, we're talking about an EA owned developer.

If you haven't played the game you can only critique things second-hand (save the visuals). Second-hand critiques aren't simply less valid, they are invalid. They are not based on any sort of reality, but pure speculation.

If you could explain to me how an invalid critique is warranted, please do so.

So you assault my point as an "Opinion", and then insist that your opinion, that "Second hand critique" is invalid, is truth? There's a blatant contradiction.

And for all you know you could have been. If DA2 had outsold DA:O you would be "wrong."

And yet we weren't wrong. So your argument is we got lucky? Yes, hundreds of people got lucky, hundreds of people who have spent years participating in gaming got lucky with a prediction about games. If you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic.

So why did you buy it?

I didn't.



I'm sorry, but why are you here? You insult me, you insult these posters, and yet your own posts are full of logical fallacies, misunderstandings, degradations, and you putting words in my mouth.

Yet for the life of me I can't figure out WHY you're posting. To me it just seems argumentitive. The sales figures, the review figures, the past, they all back up my original post. I'm not here to rub something in Bioware's face, because I have no desire to do whats already been done.

The sales figures defend my point, the reviews defend my point. The highly anticipated sequel to a Game of the Year, a sequel that was, as admitted by an employee of Bioware, "[Rushed] to capitalize on the success of Origins",  sold less than it's predecessor. In a reboot, like Medal of Honor, that's to be expected, the game can still be called a success. But this wasn't a reboot, this was a game whose whole development cycle was built around "Sequel" level sales, which they did not recieve.


You can say we got lucky, but the fact of the matter is thats either naievity or denial. 

[Dragoonlordz]

Ottemis wrote...

abaris wrote...

Ottemis wrote...


No. I just think you shouldn't insult developers in doing their jobs WELL (also under conditions), even if the product doesn't agree with your personal preferences. Personally I think there's disrespect in not recognizing that these people at bioware stuck years of their lives in a product, and some of the posters here turn around and insult their skill and profession on a personal level. I think that's dispicable.

To hell with that!

Dramatic pause.

Not because I disrespect any of them. I don't know them personally, but they are people. Yet I can only judge them by their work. They're part of a machinery that's called Bioware and being part of a mother company named Electronic Art. They're not sacrificing themselves for our happiness. They work for a paycheck just like everybody else does. And the ones writing these paychecks want to sell a product.

Its as inpersonal as can be.

Not really, it's a creative 'art' piece. In my opinion, that's what a game is, or rather can be.
Being an artist myself I know you stick parts of yourself in your products. In extention, it is personal in a way.
Expressing one's opinion on a creation is fine, just not as abusive as some do it. It's frankly, inhumane.
Being creative can make you money if you're good yeah, luckily. But it's not the same as someone critisizing someone's math, is it?

Everything in the computing world is based on mathamatics even the art from position of the pixels or polygons and vectors, number of pixels, polygons and vectors and colour codes made up of percentile figures from each colour tone. Just because it's behind the scenes and not visable when creating doesn't make it less true.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 27 mai 2011 - 08:34 .

[axl99]

So blame EA.

[Ottemis]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Ottemis wrote...

abaris wrote...

Ottemis wrote...


No. I just think you shouldn't insult developers in doing their jobs WELL (also under conditions), even if the product doesn't agree with your personal preferences. Personally I think there's disrespect in not recognizing that these people at bioware stuck years of their lives in a product, and some of the posters here turn around and insult their skill and profession on a personal level. I think that's dispicable.

To hell with that!

Dramatic pause.

Not because I disrespect any of them. I don't know them personally, but they are people. Yet I can only judge them by their work. They're part of a machinery that's called Bioware and being part of a mother company named Electronic Art. They're not sacrificing themselves for our happiness. They work for a paycheck just like everybody else does. And the ones writing these paychecks want to sell a product.

Its as inpersonal as can be.

Not really, it's a creative 'art' piece. In my opinion, that's what a game is, or rather can be.
Being an artist myself I know you stick parts of yourself in your products. In extention, it is personal in a way.
Expressing one's opinion on a creation is fine, just not as abusive as some do it. It's frankly, inhumane.
Being creative can make you money if you're good yeah, luckily. But it's not the same as someone critisizing someone's math, is it?

Everything in the computing world is based on mathamatics even the art from position of the pixels or polygons and vectors, number of pixels, polygons and vectors and colour codes made up of percentile figures from each colour tone. Just because it's behind the scenes when creating doesn't make it less true.

Even programming takes creativity and finesse, if done right. Especially in such complex creations as a game.
I have the utmost respect, and mind you, understanding of the aspects involved in creating a game like this.
And yes, the proverbial brush, paint and canvas you pick are asmuch part of the product as the esthetics, creativity and vision involved.

Modifié par Ottemis, 27 mai 2011 - 08:39 .

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

Ottemis wrote...

abaris wrote...

Ottemis wrote...


No. I just think you shouldn't insult developers in doing their jobs WELL (also under conditions), even if the product doesn't agree with your personal preferences. Personally I think there's disrespect in not recognizing that these people at bioware stuck years of their lives in a product, and some of the posters here turn around and insult their skill and profession on a personal level. I think that's dispicable.

To hell with that!

Dramatic pause.

Not because I disrespect any of them. I don't know them personally, but they are people. Yet I can only judge them by their work. They're part of a machinery that's called Bioware and being part of a mother company named Electronic Art. They're not sacrificing themselves for our happiness. They work for a paycheck just like everybody else does. And the ones writing these paychecks want to sell a product.

Its as inpersonal as can be.

Not really, it's a creative 'art' piece. In my opinion, that's what a game is, or rather can be.
Being an artist myself I know you stick parts of yourself in your products. In extention, it is personal in a way.
Expressing one's opinion on a creation is fine, just not as abusive as some do it. It's frankly, inhumane.
Being creative can make you money if you're good yeah, luckily. But it's not the same as someone critisizing someone's math, is it?

Assuming you mean you're an artist of imagery, I dare you to do a piece of art that takes you a half hour for a commision and give it to the consumer. If they AREN'T complaining I'll be surprised. None of this is unconstructive criticism, at least not what I'm reading. While I'm sure it's there in this forum, it's not in relation to this thread. And as the quoted person said, this is part of the consumer-business relationship. They give us the product, we digest it, give our complaints, and, in a perfect world, they fix the problems and release a new product.

axl99 wrote...

Clearly someone's never worked in commercial art or games before - let alone freelanced. Go fig. There's a serious lack of empathy for all the artists involved in DA2, and I find such arbitrary and biased logic that for the actions of few people that the rest of the team has to suffer disgusting.

I doubt many people are going to blame the red shirts for a games failure, that falls to the leads. The peons have little to no choice on the matter, and if they're only following orders they can't be blamed. It's the people who give the orders that cause the failure.

In Exile wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

 So Since I was one of the many who waited for reviews to buy DA2, and consequently DIDN'T buy DA2, I'm going to address this here. I'm sure it's been said in the official thread, but as someone who loved DAO with a passion, one of the few games this generation I've played through multiple times: Too Little, Too Late.

For months, people on the forums voiced complaints, warned Bioware about the direction they were taking DA2. Quite bluntly, we were told to shove it. We got posts like Gaider's "Stages of A Dragon Age Fan", comparing our fear and anger to that of the stages of Grief. We got other posts saying that "Since we didn't play it yet, we couldn't judge".

I don't think it's the same thing. With DA2, pre-release, the complaints were about design. No one said, if you recycle all of your areas, have a ridiculous wave combat system that just means tons and tons of mooks and add absolutely no choice, where you rise to power by one means alone irrespective of anything you do and have no impact on the final outcome of the game, DA2 will suck.

The criticism was philosophical: remove Origins, add PC VO, mess with FF, don't give us our Warden... DA2 will suck.

This is not saying the same thing at all. I supported the direction Bioware said DA2 was going in. But I don't think anyone expected what we ended up with in alpha build of DA2 we purchased. 

While many of the pre-release complaints were, as you stated, different, to say that they didn't affect sales is a stretch. On top of that, a large complaint was, as I said in the original post, the fear that the game was being rushed out. We were told it was in development long before DAO released, and that it wasn't rushed. We were lied too.

[John Epler]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Everything in the computing world is based on mathamatics even the art from position of the pixels or polygons and vectors, number of pixels, polygons and vectors and colour codes made up of percentile figures from each colour tone. Just because it's behind the scenes and not visable when creating doesn't make it less true.

I've stayed out of this thread for the most part, but I do have to take issue with this point. Whether everything 'behind the scenes' is math, that doesn't shift the visual side of things into the same arena.  For writing, cinematic design and art (whether animation, modelling, whichever particular sub-discipline you'd like to use), much of what is being done is based on gut feeling. Certainly, we use software and programming to allow for its visual representation, but aside from ensuring that things are technically sound, the vast majority of my job falls more towards the artistic side of things than it does the technical. If all I had was a technical understanding of how content was created, I doubt I'd be able to do my job to any appropriate standard.

And even within programming and scripting, there's a lot of creativity. The best programmers are those who can approach a problem in a creative fashion and solve it in that same fashion. Just because it deals with math and logic, doesn't mean it can't be creative. There's far more right brain than left brain in my particular field of work, and while the left brain is more dominant in other disciplines, that doesn't mean the right brain goes unused. Far from it.

Though I admit that I'm not entirely clear what point you were making, so I may be arguing against a point you didn't even try to make. In which case, ignore this 

[ItsTheTruth]

abaris wrote...

Artists usually don't work for a paycheck, nor are they usually organised in a hierarchy, where a group of people are calling the shots.

Just curious, what kind of artist doesn't work for a paycheck? And I believe that art critics can be as harsh as any forum poster...

In any case, nobody can be proud of DA2, and I imagine a lot of ass-covering and blame game is going on behind the scenes. Because just how difficult was it to make a sequel to DAO? If it's not broken, don't break it and smash it to pieces, then throw every piece into a fire.