48 réponses à ce sujet

[mr_afk]

yeah, killing the arishok is a part of the challenge. the choice is whether to duel him or kill the lot of them. I personally prefer the latter, but I suppose the duel is more..'romantic' haha.
I'll probably upload more videos tmr.

I'm working on a how-to vid for the arishok fight (for warriors) tonight, because I'm slightly tired of hearing people complaining how impossible it is/kiting him for ages when it's quite simple to kill him in just a few minutes - for example, just for fun I solo'd (with isabela) the arishok battle in ~1 and a half minutes with my 2H warrior, making sure to kill all the other qunari first.
(Even then it wasn't quite as efficient as it could be - I'm thinking that a few well placed stuns could stop him from using potions)

I've got my 2-H video ready to upload but i seem to have run out of quota/internet's capped so uploading a 13min vid isn't going to be too fun atm haha.
interestingly, 2-H is actually more than just viable - it's potentially easier than a desdemona's build.

But anyway, it's not quite as hard as it may sound - i've done ~3-4 runs of it now (mostly in a vain attempt to do a 'perfect' continuous run) and if you allow reloads it's very doable. I've only done it once continuous, but if you play it safe it shouldn't be too hard (but will take longer).

I'm tempted to try this with another class (rogue) but I don't think I have any saves available. Solo mage and archery would just equal kiting so I'm thinking DW is the only other class besides warriors which could do this challenge properly/enjoyably...

Modifié par mr_afk, 29 mai 2011 - 01:56 .

[mr_afk]

finally got around to uploading the 2H video;




Also, I forgot to put my 40sec arishok duel on my computer so i'll have to upload it some other time.

Modifié par mr_afk, 31 mai 2011 - 07:03 .

[Jack-Nader]

and that's exactly why warrior got nerfed.

[mr_afk]

...because i'm awesome?

nah but it seems pretty silly to nerf warriors. Unless you build them as complete glass crit-cannons (e.g. every point into strength with a crit chance ~70 and a crit dmg ~100) and get them half-dead, they don't actually do that much damage.

By reducing the amount of damage they do by ~125% (almost dead+cleave=175 instead of 300) that means that force effects are a lot harder to trigger = unable to crowd-control via autoattacks = dead.

So basically, the changes make a dps glass-cannon warrior a lot harder to use/impossible, restricting warriors to tanking and leaving the dps solely to rogues. Which seems a little boring and silly imo.

Modifié par mr_afk, 31 mai 2011 - 07:02 .

[Jack-Nader]

Yes, AFK.... Because you're awesome. :innocent:

[AreleX]

mr afk holds no real power

he is absent from the eyes of the maker

[mr_afk]

You mean those changes weren't deliberately designed to completely gimp my warrior build? haha 


Anyway, as long as they remove the class-restrictions from the stealth boots I'd be happy - but I bet they didn't.

I'm tempted to just go back to mage and forget about my warrior (i've finished it in terms of the build I thought up anyway). With the haste bug fixed i might get anders back into the party and get dual haste, that could make up for halving my haemorrhage dmg....

[mr_afk]

btw, finally uploaded the arishok duel:

The main limiting factor in killing the arishok fast is getting yourself injured. So if we play it by the 'first damage' speed-run rules I could most likely do it a lot faster than 40secs but standing around letting yourself get injured seems pretty lame.
As it is, I think it adequately shows a technique to get around his potion-chugging. Any build with adequate spike damage should be able to pull this off.

Well, pre-patch anyway.

[AreleX]

the single joy i will get from this patch is observing what you try and do now that warriors are garbage

[mr_afk]

I'll just move back to mages. or rogues. I still haven't got around to a DW rogue yet, and with this new patch it might be fun to try out some new experimental builds - not that I can think of any atm.

heh, and I'm not even playing DA2 atm. Between procrastinating the study I need to be doing I'm trying out fallout new vegas.. Doesn't have quite the same feel as DA2 though so might just leave it and start/finish off a mage/rogue playthrough instead.

[DW2511]

Leaving mages in the first place was a mistake...

[mr_afk]

Hmm? I'm not going to play one-class over and over again- that would be boring!
Plus, can mages do this?
Arishok(higher quality)

Solo play seems limited to warriors and archers - anything else require lots of kiting. And non-pause solo play is surprisingly fun. It means you have to think on your feet a lot more and get really pro at microing (e.g. dodging and clustering simply by moving around).

But mages are also quite fun, so once I get around to getting the patch I'll probably finish up my crit-mage guide.

[andraip]

mr_afk, you know that they changed the way berserk works, right? As I understanded it berserk now gives + base damage and not + damage, so if you have 200 stamina = +30 damage, if you have cleave active it would be +52.5 damage, the same goes for the Reaver talents, they now also increase the berserk damage. So I think a Reaver/Zerker glass cannon will still be viable.

[mr_afk]

Yep, I was considering that and will try out a few builds I've thought up based on that - However, the main issue will probably be that of attack rating.

The advantage of berserk is that it allows you to potentially have a higher base damage via pumping willpower instead of strength (0.25 more per attribute)

However, you need lots of strength to get attack levels ~100%, and even still you'll lose the mandatory ~20% or whatever when against bosses etc. What makes it even tougher is that any sustains (e.g. control) would decrease damage output.
As any sustain will greatly decrease your damage output, a warrior crit-build (using bravery) will be hard to pull off (e.g. with my current build I could get close to 80% for a 2H and ~60% for a S&S, which goes up close to 100% when attacking groups). Even the 10% damage from might may not be worth the 20% stamina (unless you only activate it when you're out of stamina or have a high crit chance).

This means that a high willpower build (what I was considering) would have massive attack-rating issues while a low willpower build will be utterly useless as your stamina will drain so fast/you won't gain much benefit from berserk.


These factors also affected the pre-patch berserker builds (which is why I didn't use it) so the real reason why glass cannon warriors won't work now is the massive change to blood frenzy.
Unlike the info stated in the patch thread, it used to be up to 200% (not 100%) with the ability to double it to 400%.
It's reduced to 50% which can be doubled to 100%.

That's a whooping four times reduction - and no change to berserk mechanics is going to fix that.

The only thing that could maybe come close is a full-willpower build with loads of +%elemental gear (which means you'll have to waste some points on magic- and prebuffing will be a lot harder without the valiance rune). But as I said earlier, such a build would have such low attack ratings it could only hit targets via abilities.

Modifié par mr_afk, 01 juin 2011 - 09:42 .

[Sabotin]

I think it will actually be 150%, doubling to 300% (as opposed to current 200/400), which is 1/3 reduction. In the patch notes it sais damage bonus went from 100% to 50%.
The skill currently doesn't give a 200% damage bonus but raises your damage to be 200% of the original (which could be seen as a 100% damage bonus). It's possible it's just poor wording in the patch notes.Or that the skill changed to give a bonus. Or that it's already giving a bonus and it's worded poorly in the game.

1.02 -> x*2(low hp)*2(sacrificial)*2(cleave)=8x
1.03 -> x*1,5(low hp)*2(sacrificial)*1,75(cleave)=5,25x = ~35% less than before

I think it's still viable, but need to see how the zerk bonus turns out in practice if it's enough to offset the difference. The attack I actually haven't found to be much of a problem in practice and there's always ways to decrease enemy defense.

[chiccorocks]

mr_afk wrote...

Yep, I was considering that and will try out a few builds I've thought up based on that - However, the main issue will probably be that of attack rating.

The advantage of berserk is that it allows you to potentially have a higher base damage via pumping willpower instead of strength (0.25 more per attribute)

However, you need lots of strength to get attack levels ~100%, and even still you'll lose the mandatory ~20% or whatever when against bosses etc. What makes it even tougher is that any sustains (e.g. control) would decrease damage output.
As any sustain will greatly decrease your damage output, a warrior crit-build (using bravery) will be hard to pull off (e.g. with my current build I could get close to 80% for a 2H and ~60% for a S&S, which goes up close to 100% when attacking groups). Even the 10% damage from might may not be worth the 20% stamina (unless you only activate it when you're out of stamina or have a high crit chance).

This means that a high willpower build (what I was considering) would have massive attack-rating issues while a low willpower build will be utterly useless as your stamina will drain so fast/you won't gain much benefit from berserk.


These factors also affected the pre-patch berserker builds (which is why I didn't use it) so the real reason why glass cannon warriors won't work now is the massive change to blood frenzy.
Unlike the info stated in the patch thread, it used to be up to 200% (not 100%) with the ability to double it to 400%.
It's reduced to 50% which can be doubled to 100%.

That's a whooping four times reduction - and no change to berserk mechanics is going to fix that.

The only thing that could maybe come close is a full-willpower build with loads of +%elemental gear (which means you'll have to waste some points on magic- and prebuffing will be a lot harder without the valiance rune). But as I said earlier, such a build would have such low attack ratings it could only hit targets via abilities.

attack-rating issues in a solo build, right? that shouldn't be a problem in a full party set-up, right?

[andraip]

Sabotin wrote...

I think it will actually be 150%, doubling to 300% (as opposed to current 200/400), which is 1/3 reduction. In the patch notes it sais damage bonus went from 100% to 50%.
The skill currently doesn't give a 200% damage bonus but raises your damage to be 200% of the original (which could be seen as a 100% damage bonus). It's possible it's just poor wording in the patch notes.Or that the skill changed to give a bonus. Or that it's already giving a bonus and it's worded poorly in the game.

1.02 -> x*2(low hp)*2(sacrificial)*2(cleave)=8x
1.03 -> x*1,5(low hp)*2(sacrificial)*1,75(cleave)=5,25x = ~35% less than before

I think it's still viable, but need to see how the zerk bonus turns out in practice if it's enough to offset the difference. The attack I actually haven't found to be much of a problem in practice and there's always ways to decrease enemy defense.

This.

And who said that a full willpower build would be the best option? Why not pumping into str to gain attack? and if you have reached 85% going 1:2 into str and willpower? 85% against normals is enough, you have 15% from heroic aura and killing most elites with talents. And the + stamina rings/belts/ammulets/ will be great, lategame you will have about + 40(?) stamina each, that is 8 points into willpower. Or even going only for 75% and using control, if the points you need to put into str to go from 75% to 85% will give you more stamina, if you put them into willpower, then you lose through the -15% it will be viable, even more with the +10% crit chance.

Modifié par andraip, 01 juin 2011 - 11:14 .

[chiccorocks]

i think they meant a full willpower build is the best option to get your damage-dealing up post patch.

[Rabbit-Heart]

on the no pause philosophy you guys kinda have, do you count stopping to lock on to a target?
the targeting system on the xbox is just so damn awkward, try to vendetta a saarebas and there's a decent chance you hit something that gets in the way.

[mr_afk]

Yeah I don't think that counts as a pause- I sometimes do it too, the S&S talents are ridiculously hard to aim. I've lost count of the number of times I've accidentally hacked the crap out of the critter standing next to an elite haha. With mages, casting spells at the right target usually requires aiming too.

Also we're limited to only 6 quickslots which means that pausing to choose other talents/potions is almost a must unless you don't use many talents.

So generally speaking I try to avoid pausing as much as possible and include the time spent paused in my speed run times. But as long as you're pausing to target the enemy and not pausing to consider what to do next you're pretty much doing 'non-pause play' imo.

I'm not sure what all the other non-pause players believe however. Arelex seems to somehow manage with only 6 slots/no pausing and Jack-Nader never seems to pause either.
An example of pause-play would be IN1- if you've watched his videos you'll know what I mean haha

Modifié par mr_afk, 01 juin 2011 - 04:37 .

[AreleX]

even if a bear is mauling you and your family to death irl, you are not allowed to pause

[Sabotin]

Just cut the paused parts from the video. Noone will notice anyway .

[mr_afk]

but that's cheating!!! 
hahah just kidding- this challenge isn't really meant to be a speed-run; only the arishok duel at the end is.

This is mainly just to introduce people to the fun that is soloing (I can safely say that doing what I did and starting off with the gauntlet isn't the most gradual learning curve). Non-pause play is also pretty fun, so combining the two is pretty much the ultimate experience

But anyway, (if anyone actually does this) any videos of this will basically be a compilation and as such doesn't really require anything too special/editing out pauses is fair enough (though unnecessary).

My videos aren't that great however so once I get a bit more time I might try a post-patch run and record it properly. 

Modifié par mr_afk, 01 juin 2011 - 05:04 .

[SuicidalBaby]

AreleX wrote...

even if a bear is mauling you and your family to death irl, you are not allowed to pause

if that was the case I would sure as hell want more than 6 abilities to choose from.