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The Case for Expression - Giving Shepard More Facial Expressions in ME3


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#1
Sorrel

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I am an avid (some might say rabid) lover of Mass Effect, and like many people there's pretty much nothing I love more than screencapping the hell out of everything because Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 are beautifully put together games. We all have favourite characters, and we all have our own individual Shepards.

I think that one of the reasons Mass Effect (2) is so immersive and engaging is the relationships we develop with characters. We begin to feel like we really 'know them.' No small part of that is due to reading body language and expressions. Coupled with effective voice acting, characters expressing themselves and their definite personalities is one of the areas that I feel ME really excelled in. Even with Tali, whose expressions are completely impossible to see, her body language is exaggerated notably to compensate and it all comes together to give the player a view into what kind of 'person' they are interacting with.

When it comes to Shepard, this isn't so much the case. Shepard is, most of the time, wearing a neutral mask of an expression. His/her body language is often not apparent and as a result, Shepard can come across as extremely stiff in an immersion breaking way that I would almost compare to the Uncanny Valley. There is the occasional moment where Shepard will make an expression but they tend to be brief and few and far between. A lot of the time Shepard is a little robotic and that's disappointing to me for a couple of reasons.
a) immersion
B) following the story
c) I screencap the hell out of my Shepard for artistic reference and it is very very hard to get good references when she is making a face like :| all the time.

Shepard is an interesting and also somewhat volatile element to work with when it comes to expression, because they are so tied to the player and thusly open to interpretation. His/her looks are customisable. His/her outlook on the situations at hand are also heavily variable. On the one hand I can see why Shepard is often left a little neutered when it comes to expressions. From one perspective it may aid the player in 'filling in the blanks.' This is supposedly one of the reasons why the protagonist is mute in the Zelda and Dragon Warrior series; it allows the player to draw their own conclusions about how the protagonist thinks and feels. Dragon Age: Origins had a huge case of Link Syndrome too, but the negative effects were greatly lessened because so little emphasis was given on the player's response. (DA:O characters did not have a voice and thus there was no need to switch the camera back to them for a reaction/dialogue.)

On the other hand, I believe that BioWare is talented and perceptive enough not to need to rely on this method. If a response to a character's line is decidedly Paragon/Renegade/On The Fence/Snarky, what are the most likely reasons for choosing this response? What does the recorded audio response hint at in terms of emotion/expression? What was the V/A doing at the time of the recording?

Obviously I don't know everything about this issue. I am not trained in this. But, I am an artist and I do pay close attention to facial expressions -- it's important! I think allowing Shepard to be 'acted' a little more expressively would add that much more of a level of depth and realism to the game.

... And would make for some much better screenshots. I know you guys at BioWare can do it, and do it well.

Thoughts on Shepard's expressions? (In before That Face by mshep)

#2
Kasai666

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I agree. What kinda pissed me off was when I killed Saren and the whole cutscene happened, and when Shep got out and smiled, it looked like he had to poop. Not saying that s/he is always like that. But they could work on his body language and his facial features in Mass 3

#3
Da Mecca

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I'm scared of giving Shep more expressions because my word they have been terrible in the past.

#4
Sylvanpyxie

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I have to agree with Mr.Mecca.. Some of the expressions that are already in the game have made me cringe..

See "rape face" Shepard during Miranda romance.

Edit: That's not to say i'm opposed to the idea, I like the thought of more expressions since i just see the same recurring 4 faces on Shepard every conversation he/she has... However Bioware have a habit of... >.> Going wrong, sometimes.

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 27 mai 2011 - 08:48 .


#5
FenrisDeSolar

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Smiling is actually my biggest problem in ME. Smiles are rare, and when they are seen, they are strained and look false. Or worse -- even my sexiest Shepard goes derp-faced.

Another thing for me is actually body language, though. I feel like Shepard's body is really quite limp in general.

But as you said, Sorrel, I appreciate that in many ways, since it lets me fill in the blanks myself.

But basically, yes, BioWare could really try to work a little Shepard's facial expressions.

#6
Blitzkrieg0811

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Are you telling me you didn't like Shep's hideous smile at the end of ME1? lol

#7
Mr. MannlyMan

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Also, some of the body language is awkward; of course, this is a game, so some exceptions to the overall quality are expected, but several "expressive" animations just seemed kind of forced.

The "air quotes" look kind of dorky, the crouching animation looks like it was just taken straight out of ME1 and slapped on as a cutscene animation (made me go WTH in some instances), the knuckle-cracking animation (Shepard cracks his knuckles while he's wearing ablative armor? : / ) is kind of awkward, the part where he grabs Miranda's gun during her loyalty mission and almost kneels in front of her was kind of weird imo, and there were others that really seemed off...

Then of course, there were the facial animations. I think the blank stare that Shepard has on 80% of the time is kind of distracting, tbh. More subtle frowning, more squinting, more looks of interest would be better for the character's believability imo.

#8
Hathur

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While I agree there are certainly a fair share of weird / horrible looking smiles (or other expressions), I also feel I must say that there are also a great many number of good smiles and expressions... compared to most other games out there, I find the facial animations in Mass Effect 2 superior. Of course it has it's quirks and "holy hell what is that?!" moments, but for the most part it doesn't break immersion as is very well done.

I will note though that with certain facial designs for Shepard, smiles & other expressions can come across horrendously... there's just some jaw structures / mouth designs that get mutilated by the facial animation system sometimes.

Anyhow here's some screencaps to show that there's still plenty of nice smiles / expressions:

Shep smiling at Joker after being reunited.
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A bashful Shep smiling after talking about her death.
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Shep smiling at Garrus after he tells a joke about Krogan women and men with scars.
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Shep smiles for an old associate after learning she managed to turn her life around.
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A mischievous smile after lying to a crooked merchant.
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Shep smirks after an Asari jokes that relationships with humans are easy since they die off so fast.
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A smile for good 'ol Wrex
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Shep in amusement after Wrex headbutts a jackass krogan.
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Shep gives Garrus flirtatious smile / smirk.
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A warm smile for Garrus
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Shep smiles at Garrus after another one of his nervous advances.
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Shep smiles for Liara
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The famous "I told off TIM" Shep smirk.
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Plenty of good smiles I'd say and that's only some of the one's I've noticed off hand.. though yes, there are a number of horrendous ones as well.

Generally the best smiles are the slight and moderate smiles... big smiles look way off (Miranda has one scene where she tries to make a big smile... she looks like a bloody mutant at that moment).

Modifié par Hathur, 28 mai 2011 - 04:54 .


#9
Destroy Raiden_

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^ Notice they're all closed mouth smiles? The teeth showing smiles we see are horrible! But BW is trying to give shep shocked, stunned, and exited at least. I would like them to keep trying but I think there is no light change in the eyes, no feeling there, shep smiles but in his/her eyes we see nothing no fire as it where.

I would like shep to not only show me with face expressions but also in body language, subconscious cues, and with the right vocal inflections and feeling to show me how shep feels are they happy, exited, concerned, scared, horrified, filled with rage? All the items need to come together perfectly to give off the feeling a live actor would be able to do in a moment though for them takes forever just to make happen.

I know synching the mouth movements alone to the voice is a nightmare and making the 3D model match that is worse but BW has done really well for SB I think they can do more and fine tune it in ME3 also BW keep demanding both M&F sheps VA have inflection and feeling in their voices! Mshep is getting better I'm liking the fact I can hear him joking in SB hear his deep concern for the beacon being out in Arrival, keep it up! No more shep brick!

Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 28 mai 2011 - 05:00 .


#10
Dangerfoot

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Hathur wrote...

Shep gives Garrus flirtatious smile / smirk.
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I am in love with your Shepard's wily ways.

#11
stevej713

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Hathur wrote...

-snip-

I see very little difference in any of those screenshots.  The problem with BioWare's facial movement system is that it makes the characters look terrible when they show their teeth...and let's face it, most people show their teeth when they smile.

#12
AngelicMachinery

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stevej713 wrote...

Hathur wrote...

-snip-

I see very little difference in any of those screenshots.  The problem with BioWare's facial movement system is that it makes the characters look terrible when they show their teeth...and let's face it, most people show their teeth when they smile.


I'm having Morrigan/Leliana flashbacks...

#13
Hathur

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stevej713 wrote...

Hathur wrote...

-snip-

I see very little difference in any of those screenshots.  The problem with BioWare's facial movement system is that it makes the characters look terrible when they show their teeth...and let's face it, most people show their teeth when they smile.


True, but I've seen very few games pull off big smiles without looking creepy.. it hits that "uncanny valley" thing when you see their teeth (as you mentioned). Even after having played LA Noire where they used that advanced facial capture, I still noticed a fair number of "holy hell, what happened to your face?" moments when characters were extremely expressive and you could see their teeth (be it due to a smile or other expression).

It may, in my opinion anyway, just not be worth making characters in a Mass Effect game perform those big toothy smiles, simply because the tech can't pull it off without looking creepy as hell and pulling you out of the moment.

I'd rather have the game just use smaller, more subtle smiles that at least look believable and natural than try to throw in a big toothy smile or laugh and just throw me out of the game experience at that moment... at least until they manage to get the tech to the point where it can animate without making the character look like a mutant.

I'd be perfectly happy though if the game just stuck to "functional" smiles like some of the ones I showed in the pics above.... besides, when seen in motion in-game, many of them do come across as quite warm and pleasant.. genuine even... or at the least, subtle & clean enough so as not to break immersion.

Modifié par Hathur, 28 mai 2011 - 05:43 .


#14
TaHol100

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It is all about motion-capture. For some reason BioWare has decided not use it, ever. Facial motion-capture makes a big difference in how expressions look. They just think it is too expencive, I think (and that is a shame). I've seen video of how they used face motion-capture in MGS4, and it was just to help animators to get expressions "right". The models were needed only for a day or so, after that animators did all the job. It pisses me off that BioWare is not ready to do that.

Modifié par TaHol100, 28 mai 2011 - 05:49 .


#15
Hathur

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TaHol100 wrote...

It is all about motion-capture. For some reason BioWare has decided not use it, ever. Facial motion-capture makes a big difference in how expressions look. They just think it is too expencive, I think (and that is a shame). I've seen video of how they used face motion-capture in MGS4, and it was just to help animators to get expressions "right". The models were needed only for a day or so, after that animators did all the job. It pisses me off that BioWare is not ready to do that.


Cost prohibitive to use it (think of the hundreds of characters in a Mass Effect game vs the 2-3 dozen or so in any other typical non-rpg game) and impossible to use in any game where the player can customize the protagonist's facial structure.

If you want facial capture, Bioware would have to force us to be stuck with a single look for Shepard.

Also, the software Bioware uses now for facial animations is actually quite solid compared to most games on the market (just load up any other game right now and compare. The facial movements are actually quite damn good in ME2.. for the most part) The overwhelming majority of the dialogue is synced well to most characters.. it's only certain facial expressions that sometimes get skewed in an odd way... so some honing & refinement is called for, but I wouldn't want them to blow a vast amount of budget on facial capture that only improves the appearance a modest degree (and eliminates character customization in the process).

#16
CSunkyst

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mo-cap is fine, but the fact that Mass Effect doesn't have one or two player character faces to animate, but rather 1,000's of them. Would mo-cap really work in a game without pre-selected faces?

#17
Jazharah

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Just to mention:

FemShep never smiles with bared teeth (at least, after playng through ME2 about a dozen times I can't remember a single instance). It's only maleshep that gets a rapefaes.

#18
stevej713

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CSunkyst wrote...

mo-cap is fine, but the fact that Mass Effect doesn't have one or two player character faces to animate, but rather 1,000's of them. Would mo-cap really work in a game without pre-selected faces?


I don't see why not.  Just look at this.  In the second segment, there are only lines and dots which seem to capture the person's facial expressions very well.  If you put any texture over that, I bet it would work fine.

#19
Guest_DSerpa_*

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Kasai666 wrote...

I agree. What kinda pissed me off was when I killed Saren and the whole cutscene happened, and when Shep got out and smiled, it looked like he had to poop. Not saying that s/he is always like that. But they could work on his body language and his facial features in Mass 3


Maybe it's because I usually play a Sheploo, but that scene always reminded me of Bruce Willis in the Die Hard movies.

#20
Hathur

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stevej713 wrote...

CSunkyst wrote...

mo-cap is fine, but the fact that Mass Effect doesn't have one or two player character faces to animate, but rather 1,000's of them. Would mo-cap really work in a game without pre-selected faces?


I don't see why not.  Just look at this.  In the second segment, there are only lines and dots which seem to capture the person's facial expressions very well.  If you put any texture over that, I bet it would work fine.


Unfortunately it isn't quite that simple. The moment you alter jaw line, depth, width, etc, it throws the tracking points completely off and makes them useless (it would result in weirdly mutated mouth movements)... As mentioned before ,that mo-cap only works on a pre-designed, pre-determined face. Because all the faces in ME2 are adjustable (to a vast degree too, just check out some of the extremes on the jaw and mouth you can do), that type of facial capture would be mostly useless

Also, because all the characters' faces in game are designed basically with the same tool that we players use to make our Shepard's face, there's no way to apply that facial capture to them unless they happened to have the same facial structure as the person who was having their face mo-capped. Too expensive to design in-game character faces on individual capture performances and characters would begin looking very similar / the same... and then there's the issue with aliens as well which would just compound the problem further.

Ever wonder why every male in the ME series has 100% the exact same body size, height & build.. just different clothing or armor? Some of that has to do because of the all motion capture used for body movements in the game. By keeping all the males & females a uniform build and shape, they only had to capture a select few mo-cap performances and could apply them to everyone. 

Overall, considering what Bioware had to work within (being cost limited since they have hundreds of characters to animate... vastly more characters than 99% of any other games out there) they did a great job with their software.

If anyone is curious to read more, I believe ME1 (and ME2 though not 100% sure on ME2.. I assume so though) had facial their animations made with OC3 Entertainment's FaceFX software ... can check it out here http://www.facefx.com/

Modifié par Hathur, 28 mai 2011 - 03:11 .


#21
M8DMAN

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I hope they get rid of the "grrrrr mad turn away" motion that the NPC's use.

#22
habitat 67

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Hathur wrote...
Unfortunately it isn't quite that simple. The moment you alter jaw line, depth, width, etc, it throws the tracking points completely off and makes them useless (it would result in weirdly mutated mouth movements)... As mentioned before ,that mo-cap only works on a pre-designed, pre-determined face. Because all the faces in ME2 are adjustable (to a vast degree too, just check out some of the extremes on the jaw and mouth you can do), that type of facial capture would be mostly useless

Also, because all the characters' faces in game are designed basically with the same tool that we players use to make our Shepard's face, there's no way to apply that facial capture to them unless they happened to have the same facial structure as the person who was having their face mo-capped. Too expensive to design in-game character faces on individual capture performances and characters would begin looking very similar / the same... and then there's the issue with aliens as well which would just compound the problem further.

Ever wonder why every male in the ME series has 100% the exact same body size, height & build.. just different clothing or armor? Some of that has to do because of the all motion capture used for body movements in the game. By keeping all the males & females a uniform build and shape, they only had to capture a select few mo-cap performances and could apply them to everyone. 

Overall, considering what Bioware had to work within (being cost limited since they have hundreds of characters to animate... vastly more characters than 99% of any other games out there) they did a great job with their software.

If anyone is curious to read more, I believe ME1 (and ME2 though not 100% sure on ME2.. I assume so though) had facial their animations made with OC3 Entertainment's FaceFX software ... can check it out here http://www.facefx.com/


You are fabulous for posting this.

#23
STG

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Sorrel wrote...
(In before That Face by mshep)


You cannot escape!
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#24
habitat 67

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#25
San_OpiA

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and put some emotion in sheps voice pleas!