738 réponses à ce sujet

[Ottemis]

Lord_Valandil wrote...
I wasn't referring to you. But to many people who say that fade-to-black is better than showing the oh-so-dirty scene.
Perhaps Gone with the Wind did just fine, but it doesn't mean that EVERYTHING ELSE will work just as fine.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Works for some, doesn't for others.
Logicly those with difficulty bonding and/or feeling for the events unraveling, seeing more would work better in therms of believability and possibly immersion; while for people that could get into the moment, it wouldn't have necessarily added anything.
In my opinion when done RIGHT, I agree you don't need to see everything play out infront of camera, and to the extend of DA2 and the moarning, I think it was done right.

As to the introduction and level of communication with the family leading up to the point not involving people enough to feel anything for them? I didn't experience it that way, but I wouldn't say adding more interaction would be a bad thing, especially not if it would help others get immersed.

Modifié par Ottemis, 29 mai 2011 - 05:24 .

[BeefoTheBold]

There's a decent middle ground that can be had between the exhibitionist and the prudish approach to showing sex in games.

While there's nothing wrong with a "fade to black", it's nice if you actually get people a little invested in what's happening before you do. As a point of comparison, I look at Miranda vs. Isabelle scenes. The Miranda one I think strikes about the right balance. Isabelle feels rushed and "we're putting this in there but we're going to hurry past as fast as we can to make damned sure that Fox can't complain about us being a sex simulator again".

[Persephone]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

My problem with Leandra's death is not so much post-death (I thought it was done well). It's rather prior. I did not feel that connected with Leandra for the scene to have as much impact as it should. It was adequate imo, but it could have been more than that.

My feelings exactly(even though a funeral scene would not have hurt, IMO). I just didn't feel emotionally connected to any of the family members, because I did not know them. We just get thrown in the middle of them fleeing for their lives. My first thought: "Who are you people?"

I believe that I've agreed before that having an introduction/origin in Lothering for each class would have been a better choice & made bonding with the family a bit easier.

[Aaleel]

I really didn't feel Leandra's death at all, as opposed to the Cousland origin. When I found Oriana and Oren, I was thinking when I find Arl Howe I'm going to ???? him up for this.

One of the problems was we were simply told too much, and made to assume too much, rather than being allowed to play our story. Since it was supposed to be a personal story.

[BeefoTheBold]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

My problem with Leandra's death is not so much post-death (I thought it was done well). It's rather prior. I did not feel that connected with Leandra for the scene to have as much impact as it should. It was adequate imo, but it could have been more than that.

My feelings exactly(even though a funeral scene would not have hurt, IMO). I just didn't feel emotionally connected to any of the family members, because I did not know them. We just get thrown in the middle of them fleeing for their lives. My first thought: "Who are you people?"

Yeah I agree. I didn't feel anything for Leandra for the same reason I felt nothing for Carver. I never had a chance to really bond with the characters and feel that they were family.

Contrast it to other possible character deaths in Bioware games and you get a good impression on how skimpy the relationships were.

For example, I agonized over the Ashley/Kaiden decision in ME1...and I didn't even like either character particularly much. But they were REAL people who FELT like they were a part of my crew and that I'd spent a lot of time getting to know.

[Persephone]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

My problem with Leandra's death is not so much post-death (I thought it was done well). It's rather prior. I did not feel that connected with Leandra for the scene to have as much impact as it should. It was adequate imo, but it could have been more than that.

My feelings exactly(even though a funeral scene would not have hurt, IMO). I just didn't feel emotionally connected to any of the family members, because I did not know them. We just get thrown in the middle of them fleeing for their lives. My first thought: "Who are you people?"

For example, I agonized over the Ashley/Kaiden decision in ME1...and I didn't even like either character particularly much. But they were REAL people who FELT like they were a part of my crew and that I'd spent a lot of time getting to know.

I agonized more over Virmire than any decision in DAO or DAII.

[Lord_Valandil]

Alistairlover94 wrote...
Iyou, big sis!

Why did we have to start out the game with exploding bodies, and fountains of blood, when I could've been emotionally invested in Hawke's life? What exactly did that scene serve, narratively speaking? Bethany gets bigger breasts?

Because awesomeness.

[Persephone]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

My problem with Leandra's death is not so much post-death (I thought it was done well). It's rather prior. I did not feel that connected with Leandra for the scene to have as much impact as it should. It was adequate imo, but it could have been more than that.

My feelings exactly(even though a funeral scene would not have hurt, IMO). I just didn't feel emotionally connected to any of the family members, because I did not know them. We just get thrown in the middle of them fleeing for their lives. My first thought: "Who are you people?"

I believe that I've agreed before that having an introduction/origin in Lothering for each class would have been a better choice & made bonding with the family a bit easier.

Iyou, big sis!

Why did we have to start out thegame with exploding bodies, and fountains of blood, when I could've been emotionally invested in Hawke's life? What exactly did that scene serve, narratively speaking? Bethany gets bigger breasts?

Hehehehe, Varric lying about the Champion did make me giggle. But he DOES say "You need to hear the whole...story." So why start in in the friggin MIDDLE and leave out the beginning? Certainly felt that way to me. "We lost it all. Everything your father and I built....." My Hawke: What was that again? A house? A life style? Friends? WHAT?

[BeefoTheBold]

Persephone wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

My problem with Leandra's death is not so much post-death (I thought it was done well). It's rather prior. I did not feel that connected with Leandra for the scene to have as much impact as it should. It was adequate imo, but it could have been more than that.

My feelings exactly(even though a funeral scene would not have hurt, IMO). I just didn't feel emotionally connected to any of the family members, because I did not know them. We just get thrown in the middle of them fleeing for their lives. My first thought: "Who are you people?"

I believe that I've agreed before that having an introduction/origin in Lothering for each class would have been a better choice & made bonding with the family a bit easier.

Iyou, big sis!

Why did we have to start out thegame with exploding bodies, and fountains of blood, when I could've been emotionally invested in Hawke's life? What exactly did that scene serve, narratively speaking? Bethany gets bigger breasts?

Hehehehe, Varric lying about the Champion did make me giggle. But he DOES say "You need to hear the whole...story." So why start in in the friggin MIDDLE and leave out the beginning? Certainly felt that way to me. "We lost it all. Everything your father and I built....." My Hawke: What was that again? A house? A life style? Friends? WHAT?

A Mabari?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Eh, the entire premise of Varric telling the story did not make that much sense to me as it needed Cassandra to be a grade A moron to think that Hawke is some mastermind who engineered all this. And you'd think that Varric's tale would remove this pre-conception, but the idiot now thinks that Hawke can save the world for some reason, even when his resume has him failing to prevent two much smaller conflicts!

Bah screw it.

[Lord_Valandil]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Eh, the entire premise of Varric telling the story did not make that much sense to me as it needed Cassandra to be a grade A moron to think that Hawke is some mastermind who engineered all this. And you'd think that Varric's tale would remove this pre-conception, but the idiot now thinks that Hawke can save the world for some reason, even when his resume has him failing to prevent two much smaller conflicts!

Bah screw it.

Varric's narrative was completely unnecessary.
I'm sure it could have been removed from the game without any harm.

[Wulfram]

I didn't feel the cheesy horror stuff fitted well with the big emotional moment. Otherwise it's OK, though short on reaction if you haven't got a romance yet.

[Elhanan]

"You know, one good thing about the Blight is how it brings people together." Same for certain Threads, it seems....

Well, since this one has skipped the curb, I will join it to support family Hawke. It may be odd that speaking to Dog brings additional family interaction, but it is there. And while one may not be as deeply moved by the death of the Mother, the follow up was top notch, IMO. And while Carver and Bethany may not be the family everone has, having seen plenty of familiy dynamics in the public arena, it is more than authentic.

And for other films other than GWTW, I offer Spartacus. To keep it on the level of the one that asked: The Lion King.

[Persephone]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Eh, the entire premise of Varric telling the story did not make that much sense to me as it needed Cassandra to be a grade A moron to think that Hawke is some mastermind who engineered all this. And you'd think that Varric's tale would remove this pre-conception, but the idiot now thinks that Hawke can save the world for some reason, even when his resume has him failing to prevent two much smaller conflicts!

Bah screw it.

Hawke's primary skill is killing, being a mindless mercenary. Not being a leader like The Warden.

My Canon Lady Hawke wasn't a mindless mercenary and my Canon Warden certainly wasn't a leader. (You read my story, right? XD)

[Ottemis]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Eh, the entire premise of Varric telling the story did not make that much sense to me as it needed Cassandra to be a grade A moron to think that Hawke is some mastermind who engineered all this. And you'd think that Varric's tale would remove this pre-conception, but the idiot now thinks that Hawke can save the world for some reason, even when his resume has him failing to prevent two much smaller conflicts!

Bah screw it.

People are often blinded in their conviction of others when they feel strongly for or against something and the stakes are high enough. Cass, yeah, extreme standpoint, she stays sceptical for quite some time and slowly gets around to seeing the 'logic' in Varric's story because she gradually has to dismiss  more and more of her own assumption in regards to Hawke's tale, which increasingly unravels it more and more, as it's foundation is knocked down.

As to the conclusion: We're often blinded by faith in someone who maybe can't even deliver because it's a comforting thought, especially in situations where some would claim all hope to be gone.

I don't think that makes her stupid, or Varric's narrative useless.
It's desperate times. People act and respond accordingly.

Modifié par Ottemis, 29 mai 2011 - 05:38 .

[Persephone]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Eh, the entire premise of Varric telling the story did not make that much sense to me as it needed Cassandra to be a grade A moron to think that Hawke is some mastermind who engineered all this. And you'd think that Varric's tale would remove this pre-conception, but the idiot now thinks that Hawke can save the world for some reason, even when his resume has him failing to prevent two much smaller conflicts!

Bah screw it.

Varric's narrative was completely unnecessary.
I'm sure it could have been removed from the game without any harm.

Given that I adore Varric, I would be VERY put out to see content related to him removed.

[Aaleel]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Eh, the entire premise of Varric telling the story did not make that much sense to me as it needed Cassandra to be a grade A moron to think that Hawke is some mastermind who engineered all this. And you'd think that Varric's tale would remove this pre-conception, but the idiot now thinks that Hawke can save the world for some reason, even when his resume has him failing to prevent two much smaller conflicts!

Bah screw it.

He didn't narriate enough.  He should have had more interludes so that they could have changed the surroundings more after each one to make you think time was passing.  Also it allows you to play more of the story rather than just being told huge chunks of it.

Like in the Witcher2.  They had 4 flashbacks just to tell the prelude, but they let you the player experience the whole thing, they just set each section up.  Out of the 7 years, we played about 1, and were told the events of the other 6, and that just didn't work for me.

[NKKKK]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Eh, the entire premise of Varric telling the story did not make that much sense to me as it needed Cassandra to be a grade A moron to think that Hawke is some mastermind who engineered all this. And you'd think that Varric's tale would remove this pre-conception, but the idiot now thinks that Hawke can save the world for some reason, even when his resume has him failing to prevent two much smaller conflicts!

Bah screw it.

Varric's narrative was completely unnecessary.
I'm sure it could have been removed from the game without any harm.

Hey I'm David Gaider, and I take offence to that last one.

[Sister Helen]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

Your entire life... is caught on tape? Suddenly, I'm not too surprised about the whole pirate gig anymore.

You are so out of line.  How dare you mock someone who lost a family member.  My hands are trembling as I write this post.  I pray that there is no such thing as karma.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ottemis wrote...
As to the conclusion: We're often blinded by blind faith in someone who maybe can't even deliver because it's a comforting thought, especially in situations where some would claim all hope to be gone.

In otherwords, idiocy as the tale was there to dismiss the idea that Hawke is important and that the entire point is that he tried to prevent two conflicts and failed miserably.

Yea, maybe blind faith led to the conclusion that Hawke can save the world. It doesn't make it any less idiotic and Cassandra, any less stupid.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 29 mai 2011 - 05:37 .

[Persephone]

Aaleel wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Eh, the entire premise of Varric telling the story did not make that much sense to me as it needed Cassandra to be a grade A moron to think that Hawke is some mastermind who engineered all this. And you'd think that Varric's tale would remove this pre-conception, but the idiot now thinks that Hawke can save the world for some reason, even when his resume has him failing to prevent two much smaller conflicts!

Bah screw it.

He didn't narriate enough.  He should have had more interludes so that they could have changed the surroundings more after each one to make you think time was passing.  Also it allows you to play more of the story rather than just being told huge chunks of it.

Like in the Witcher2.  They had 4 flashbacks just to tell the prelude, but they let you the player experience the whole thing, they just set each section up.  Out of the 7 years, we played about 1, and were told the events of the other 6, and that just didn't work for me.

With this I definitely agree. The "missing years" are still a thorn in my side. And I'm still hoping for DLC to fix that. And yes, I'd buy them.