738 réponses à ce sujet

[Corto81]

Ottemis wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Ottemis wrote...

Corto81 wrote...
More like Rift or WoW - weak story

Ehh? Whatnow?

Maybe not like WoW or rift, but I also think it had a weak story. Compared to other Bioware titles at least (other than ME2, though I felt the writing was slightly better than DA2).

Yeah I was specificly quoting that bit because I've played both games and I really do-not agree with him. I mean, AT ALL.. especially in the case of WoW. Anyways, sidetrack.

I know it's a bit off-topic, but a quick explanation.
So yeah, Warning: Off-topic to explain what I compared.
...

I've played EQ1, EQ2, AoC,  WoW, recently Rift etc. Most of them high-end.
Now, post-vanilla WoW, I think it's fair to say both WoW and Rift are "streamlined" MMOs, as opposed to EQ1 (or EQ2 before the make-over).

That's to say, comparing Rift and DA2...
I was comparing the feel of the world and the general lack of direction as far as the plot goes.

You're in a "fake" world, where everything feels plastic, fake and it exists for you to level in.
There are no children, there are no people going about their lives, etc.
There's no overlaying plot and you're seemingly rather goalless and aimless in your quest... Which is to level and get experience (which is NOT how RP is suppose to be).
There's no exploration, you're guided everywhere by marks on your map, and the quests are basic go-there-and-kill or my favorite - fiding a random item on a mob then returning it to its previous owner.

Not to take Witcher 2 into this, but it's just an example of how RPG quests should be done - there are fewer of them, but still a lot. Yet none of them are generic (apart from bounty contracts maybe) and nearly every one of them is engaging and meaningul.
....


As for Mike's post about numbers and stats and the barrier.

Well, in short, I respect your stand, but I don't and I can't agree with it.
Stats are at the core of every RPG that made a name for itself.
YOUR game, Origins, won general acclaim and sold awesomely. With stats.

Bottom line, if you're trying to expand your audience, that's great. I hope you succeed cos more money for BW means more games for us.
But IMO, you will NOT get there by alienating your core fans.
Or stepping away from that core RPG system.

People come to BW for RPGs (most of them).

[lobi]

Sorry Neppo heres is link.youtu.be/0RiQgyIVtrU

[neppakyo]

lobi wrote...

That, or spurned lover by Marc Almond.

Hmm, think the cyndi lauper song fits better.

[Fortlowe]

Corto81 wrote...

So why, at the same time, do you guys think it has elements that are a barrier to people?
Honest question.

Yes, I do. To use one example, I know that there are people who fire up a game like Origins, see either character generation or a big wall of stats to pick and they immediately turn it off again. I also am cognizant that there are people who see that big wall of stats and get really excited.

I believe that there are more of the former than the latter. It doesn't mean either side is wrong, and it sure as hell doesn't mean we should cut stats, it just means that, perhaps, opening the game with a big wall of them is not ideal.

[/quote

This actually happened to me when I got Origins. I didn't play it for like a month after the character creation. Suddenly.....Iona.

[Redcoat]

And it's not like the stats that DA:O presented you with on Character Creation were all that complicated to begin with. You had Strength, Dextery, Willpower, Magic, Cunning, and Constitution. All of which were explained in the manual. All of which were explained by the tooltips that appeared if you hovered your mouse over a particular statistic.

[lobi]

neppakyo wrote...

lobi wrote...

That, or spurned lover by Marc Almond.

Hmm, think the cyndi lauper song fits better.

Then you are not hearing the words.youtu.be/0RiQgyIVtrU

Modifié par lobi, 29 mai 2011 - 05:38 .

[Ottemis]

Corto81
I've played EQ2, LOTRO, WAR, WoW and Rift.
If that's your opinion that's fine, but it's clearly not mine, sorry.

[lobi]

Redcoat wrote...

And it's not like the stats that DA:O presented you with on Character Creation were all that complicated to begin with. You had Strength, Dextery, Willpower, Magic, Cunning, and Constitution. All of which were explained in the manual. All of which were explained by the tooltips that appeared if you hovered your mouse over a particular statistic.

Very much, 'not rocket science'

[neppakyo]

lobi wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

lobi wrote...

That, or spurned lover by Marc Almond.

Hmm, think the cyndi lauper song fits better.

Then you are not hearing the words.youtu.be/0RiQgyIVtrU

Its been a long time, and not my genre of music lol. But yeah, that fits pretty well. Good find lol.

[Shirosaki17]

Corto81 also reminded me about MMOs.

WoW has 10 million subscribers and characters have stats. Now they may not be adding stats every level, but you have to have some idea what stats do so you can choose what gear you want to pick that has the best stat gains for your character/class/build combo.

[Bryy_Miller]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
 I think the people most likely to want to play an RPG, but who may not know it yet, are the folks who love the Rockstar games.

I've been waiting for a GTA RPG mod to pop up forever now.

[DreGregoire]

I personally think that reaching a wider audience is a pipe dream, but it's their dream. So they are welcome to kill their brain cells reaching their dream. The sad thing is that they may have lost some of the audience that loved and raved about about Dragon Age Origins.

[Fortlowe]

Redcoat wrote...

And it's not like the stats that DA:O presented you with on Character Creation were all that complicated to begin with. You had Strength, Dextery, Willpower, Magic, Cunning, and Constitution. All of which were explained in the manual. All of which were explained by the tooltips that appeared if you hovered your mouse over a particular statistic.

1. Console
2. Complexity wasn't the issue. I figure I was like a lot of folks and purchased Dragon Age on the strength of the marvelous experience that Mass Effect was. When all these stats come up and then I see numbers hover over my character everytime he takes a swipe at somebody (AND misses half the time!) it threw me for a loop. After that initial shock I, of course, fell in love with the game, but the starkly different gameplay was a bit of cold water to the face.

[Ottemis]

lobi wrote...

Redcoat wrote...

And it's not like the stats that DA:O presented you with on Character Creation were all that complicated to begin with. You had Strength, Dextery, Willpower, Magic, Cunning, and Constitution. All of which were explained in the manual. All of which were explained by the tooltips that appeared if you hovered your mouse over a particular statistic.

Very much, 'not rocket science'

No, but they can be daunting to some if it's the first thing they see, which (as far as I understoold the geste of Mike's statement), was the whole point.

Modifié par Ottemis, 29 mai 2011 - 05:51 .

[TheStrand221]

I don't believe there are many players that are put off by games with detailed statistics. WoW is incredibly popular not a niche game and players micro tons of abilities, statistics, equipment, etc. to maximize their builds. I mean, the average age of a gamer is early thirties I believe. That would mean many of them probably played their first games on older systems that carried the first generations of hardcore RPGs, or at least the original Final Fantasy on NES which is basically a western style RPG of the classic kind.

[Ottemis]

@TheStrand221
What you believe doesn't so much matter though in this case? If Bioware wants to shift CharGen after the Intro to try and make the game more initially appealing to people that MIGHT be offset by wall of stats early, what does it matter to you? You still get the CharGen, just not from the get-go. You don't lose anything in effect where others might gain something at the same time.

Modifié par Ottemis, 29 mai 2011 - 06:01 .

[Lumikki]

Aaleel wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

You assume it's different crowds, because your own situation.
I'm not different crowd and still I play mix and not mixed just fine.

What game have you played that's a cross between COD and DA?  What game have you played that's a mix between DA and AC or GTA even.

I'm not complaining about Biowares freedom to make any game they want, you are. You are saying it doesn't work, because "different crowd" would not play mix games, because mixed game would not work well. You point is based your own assumptions. There is more than extreme sided players.

My point, I play any game what is worth of my time. I don't judge games direction before it happens. Sure, I think some directions are better, but it's also about choosing customer base. If you change the game type, you also change customer base type. There is allways players for any type of games. Just because some game isn't for me, doens't mean it's not good for others. So, I don't judge games based my needs only. I just give my feedback.

Modifié par Lumikki, 29 mai 2011 - 06:07 .

[lobi]

youtu.be/2WC-w-0vkIk
For Mr L

Modifié par lobi, 29 mai 2011 - 06:00 .

[TheStrand221]

Ottemis wrote...

@TheStrand221
What you believe doesn't so much matter though in this case? If Bioware wants to shift CharGen after the Intro to try and make the game more initially appealing to people that MIGHT be offset by wall of stats early, what does it matter to you? You still get the CharGen, just not from the get-go. You don't lose anything in effect where others might gain something at the same time.

What I believe doesn't really enter into it.  The popularity of WoW, with all its satistical granularity, synergy of abilities, and different builds is something easily objectively measured.

Those choices don't bother me, I'm just saying they're likely unnecessary.  The idea that there are large numbers of gamers out there that are frightened by statistics and the complexity of character building is probably false.

I mean, how many people spend time pouring over statistics for fantasy football team builds?  People like stats, they like to fiddle with them and min/max.  Sorry RPG players, you're not as special as you think.

[Ottemis]

@TheStrand221
Ahh well, I'd rather they do take the possibility into account then not, even if it's something I (probably even most) don't need.

Modifié par Ottemis, 29 mai 2011 - 06:14 .

[Lumikki]

TheStrand221 wrote...

The idea that there are large numbers of gamers out there that are frightened by statistics and the complexity of character building is probably false.

Based on what?

I mean, how many people spend time pouring over statistics for fantasy football team builds?  People like stats, they like to fiddle with them and min/max.  Sorry RPG players, you're not as special as you think.

Yes, many do, but not all of them. It's like football and opera. Some like one, some other, some both, some none.

Modifié par Lumikki, 29 mai 2011 - 06:20 .

[lobi]

I feel a 'Chicken sandwich with mustard' moment coming on.

[Ottemis]

scyphozoa wrote...

Oh and just for the record, I think this thread should be renamed "The Laidlaw Doctrine"

http://i.imgur.com/r3EDr.jpg"

Modifié par Ottemis, 29 mai 2011 - 06:25 .