94 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

I see it as a symptom of an even larger fail (the whole story). That's what I edited out

[Ashira Shepard]

Really Cullen...? He's like the most crazy Templar under Meredith on "LOCK THE MAGES AWAY! KILL THEM BEFORE THEY CAUSE HAVOC! THEY CAN NEVER BE TRUSTED!" and...that's how reactions to being told a known apostate is plotting against the chantry?

[jlb524]

That's lyrium addiction for you.

[Arrtis]

They changed his character....because they wanted to....

[LobselVith8]

Chilcek wrote...

So why bother telling people who liked Origins to NOT play 2?

If people didn't like the game, why wouldn't they advise against playing it to people? Plenty of people had been expecting a proactive protagonist who would make important changes, and instead we got a reactive protagonist and two endings that are virtually identical to one another.

Chilcek wrote...

Some lore will be tying in to 3, at the very least. If you enjoy the Dragon Age universe, then play the games. It's not like they completely butchered the world Dragon Age is set in.

Isn't it likely there will be presets, like there was for Dragon Age 2? Hawke is either pro-mage or pro-templar, it's not much different than that.

Chilcek wrote...

Honestly, I think the only problem is the repeated areas and tactical changes. The story is okay. The characters are pretty damned good. 

The companions are interesting, but Act III was terrible. Orsino and Meredith were ridiculous. Everyone holds the Idiot Ball.

Chilcek wrote...

So yeah, you fairweather fans are pissed it didn't live up to origins. That really doesn't explain the reasoning behind telling people NOT to play a game in the series they enjoy.

If the person is expecting an RPG like Origins, why not advise them that this isn't the case? If they want a game where their choices will matter and they want a proactive protagonist, why not advise them that this isn't the case?

Chilcek wrote...

If you didn't like the game, great, you're free to say so, but there are redeemable traits about the game that will be used in DA3, whether you want to admit them as "Redeemable" or not.

This is entirely speculation. Maybe DA3 will be good, maybe it won't, but we have no idea what will be imported. It's not like DA2 addressed the fact that the arling of Amaranthine can be governed by a Hero of Ferelden who happens to be a mage, which is illegal according to Chantry law. Despite the significance of this event, it's never once mentioned.

[LiquidGrape]

DA2's actual intrigue definitely needed some work. Act 3 suffers from Meredith and Orsino never being satisfyingly fleshed-out characters, and there was a certain sense of anticlimax to the whole thing.
I wish the team would have been allowed another year of development. I love the game as it is, but I can see that it had the potential of being so much more.

In terms of theme, however, I think it is head and shoulders above pretty much everything in the medium, save perhaps Far Cry 2 and The Path. (I hesitate to invoke the latter as people have a habit of being derisive whenever it is mentioned, but I do think it was a successful exercise in interactive symbolism)

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 29 mai 2011 - 09:05 .

[Arrtis]

If they took out the entire storytelling part of the game it would have seemed a tiny bit better.

[thedistortedchild]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

What is this I don't even....

Oh all the stupid things Iv'e seen in this game that takes the freaking cake.

[Everwarden]

Chilcek wrote...
 It's not like they completely butchered the world Dragon Age is set in.

Yes, they did. They turned realistic fantasy into a world with 'button-awesome'. 

[The U.S. Government]

This thread actually blew my mind..

[Kidd]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

I bet there is. Leliana: good girl by day, vigilante by night, who possesses the planning capabilities of Batman! Death was merely a setback!

Replay the guardian chamber section of DAO with Leliana in your party, it's quite interesting.

There is definitely more to Leliana than what you notice at first. I'm just wondering in what way. Heck, there may even be multiple Lelianas at this point =D

[marshalleck]

Everwarden wrote...

Chilcek wrote...
 It's not like they completely butchered the world Dragon Age is set in.

Yes, they did. They turned realistic fantasy into a world with 'button-awesome'. 

Realistic fantasy? Eh? I think that would describe more of a low-fantasy world, where magic is much more powerful but incredibly rare, and there aren't many strange creatures or non-humanoid races like elves, dwarves, etc. Despite all Bioware's talk about Dragon Age being a supposedly grimdark, gritty, etc. fantasy setting, it has always had a very Disneyesque quality to it. Definitely more in line with works of high fantasy, ala Lord of the Rings and such. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 30 mai 2011 - 10:20 .

[Ryzaki]

AshiraShepard wrote...

Really Cullen...? He's like the most crazy Templar under Meredith on "LOCK THE MAGES AWAY! KILL THEM BEFORE THEY CAUSE HAVOC! THEY CAN NEVER BE TRUSTED!" and...that's how reactions to being told a known apostate is plotting against the chantry?

 

That was my face when I first saw that scene. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 30 mai 2011 - 10:26 .

[Ileanos07]

Why should I care? After DA 2 I wont buy or play DA3 so... I played it to the half of the game and was too disapointed. ME series? I hope it wont come to DA2 style...

[Sister Helen]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Dangerfoot wrote...

DA2 basically throws all that out the window and makes 1/4th of them rapists, half of them murderers and sadists, and the last 4th don't appear in the game. You never see the Chantry doing any good for the people. There is basically one genuinely pro-mage Templar, and he's basically a traitor to his country since law dictates that you hate all mages. It felt like a considerable step down in lore.

This might have been true if there were only four templars in the game. The majority of templars in the game were not Ser Alrik. In fact, if you are very quick during the first Anders quest and loot the leaders body, you'll get a letter from him where it details his objections to Alrik's orders.

There were multiple Templars throughout the game who supported the mages being treated like human beings. Of course many were afflicted by the same chemical in the water as the mages and they stupidly kept doing things like attacking you instead of talking. Or kidnapping your sibling when you probably would have joined their side had they just asked.

Don't forget the new recruits to the templar order - who all seemed like scared kids speculating about rituals and Meredith killing the ones that went missing.  Cullen's comment that new recruits gossip more than a knitting circle (quilting circle?  I forget the exact line) had me laughing. ... Also the recruit you saved from the blood mages who got put on a 10-year probation.

[KnightofPhoenix]

thedistortedchild wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

What is this I don't even....

Oh all the stupid things Iv'e seen in this game that takes the freaking cake.

Like I said before, I think it's a symptom of bad writing and of DA2 not knowing what it wants to be. Not that Cullen is an imbecile.

This scene shows you all the OOCing of established characters, an unsubtle and blunt reminder of the illusion of choice (as opposed to being done smartly), and all the poorly written railroading reaching to the ultimate conclusion. DA2 is still pretending to be an RPG with choice, except it's not and is doing it very very poorly that it's not even attempting to mask the illusion of choice with plausibility. 

Yes, DA:O had railroading as well. You couldn't kill Morrigan and she had to be there at the end for instance. But you could actually kick her out of camp (or try to turn her in to the Tempalrs, but she escapes). Illusion of choice as it doesn't change the outcome, but one that makes sense. Here, you are virtually begging Cullen to capture Anders and he's like "Meh".

This scene for me is the perfect representation of why the entire story (minus Act 2 which is really isolated and disjointed from the main narrative) is a debacle.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 30 mai 2011 - 03:26 .

[Foolsfolly]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

thedistortedchild wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

What is this I don't even....

Oh all the stupid things Iv'e seen in this game that takes the freaking cake.

Like I said before, I think it's a symptom of bad writing and of DA2 not knowing what it wants to be. Not that Cullen is an imbecile.

This scene shows you all the OOCing of established characters, an unsubtle and blunt reminder of the illusion of choice (as opposed to being done smartly), and all the poorly written railroading reaching to the ultimate conclusion. DA2 is still pretending to be an RPG with choice, except it's not and is doing it very very poorly that it's not even attempting to mask the illusion of choice with plausibility. 

Yes, DA:O had railroading as well. You couldn't kill Morrigan and she had to be there at the end for instance. But you could actually kick her out of camp (or try to turn her in to the Tempalrs, but she escapes). Illusion of choice as it doesn't change the outcome, but one that makes sense. Here, you are virtually begging Cullen to capture Anders and he's like "Meh".

This scene for me is the perfect representation of why the entire story (minus Act 2 which is really isolated and disjointed from the main narrative) is a debacle.

Agreed. Although, I can't ever remember disagreeing with you, KoP.