204 réponses à ce sujet

[Rixxencaxx]

Droma wrote...

again funny how people on this forum think they are the majority with their opinions =D and it's more garbage if a review just shows the bad stuff about a game and totally ignores anythng good about the game. but that's the problem with high expectations that people have. try to judge a game by it's own and not by it's predecessor(s). then you could see that da2 is in fact a quite good game. not a perfect one and no 9.0 one, but it isn't total garbage aswell. but i don't know pc gamers nowaydays seem to allways think that every game is bad because it is "dumbed" down for those baaad console gamers.

and allways funny how every bad review is the one and only truth and every good review was paid by ea. all you people who disliked the game actually believe everyone else has to hate it too or is paid by ea? you can't believe that some people don't bother that much about the new ways da2 was going?

yes yes we are vocal minority.....in the meantime everyone laughts at dragon age 2 and use it as an example of failure. Nice job bioware.

Modifié par Rixxencaxx, 30 mai 2011 - 05:45 .

[Teredan]

Droma wrote...

again funny how people on this forum think they are the majority with their opinions =D and it's more garbage if a review just shows the bad stuff about a game and totally ignores anythng good about the game. but that's the problem with high expectations that people have. try to judge a game by it's own and not by it's predecessor(s). then you could see that da2 is in fact a quite good game. not a perfect one and no 9.0 one, but it isn't total garbage aswell. but i don't know pc gamers nowaydays seem to allways think that every game is bad because it is "dumbed" down for those baaad console gamers.

and allways funny how every bad review is the one and only truth and every good review was paid by ea. all you people who disliked the game actually believe everyone else has to hate it too or is paid by ea? you can't believe that some people don't bother that much about the new ways da2 was going?

sorry that's bull****, we have always and will always judge games in manner where we compare them with games that came before them, and that's a good thing this encourages progress, evolution and results ultimately in better games.

[neppakyo]

I hate it when people trot out that "Judge DA2 on its own merits, and don't compare it as a sequel to DAO". Sorry, it was marketed that way and its fair to compare.

[Stanley Woo]

Teredan wrote...
sorry that's [nonsense], we have always and will always judge games in manner where we compare them with games that came before them, and that's a good thing this encourages progress, evolution and results ultimately in better games.

No swearing, please.

I would agree wtih you to a point, Teredan. Progress is only encouraged when we get honest feedback about what worked and didn't work. Reactionary hysteria, frequent insults and name-calling, and the constant negativity from the "I told you so" crowd, is not honest feedback and tends to not help anyone. Neither are negative reviews the only "honest" feedback. Unfortunately, the internet has a way of polarizing opinions. Moderate views and opinions are often shouted down by the increasingly vocal extremes, who hope that the frequency and volume of their posts drown out those who don't agree. Heck, we've even seen people being shouted down who simply don't agree enough with a particular viewpoint.

Many of the criticisms of DA2 stem from how different the game is than DA:O. If this is the case you wish to support, isn't it counterproductive to complain about aspects of a game that is different from its predecessor? Evolution of games can't happen if things stay the same all the time.

Not everyone has the same noble goal as you do (ie. to encourage better games). Many only want what is a better game for them, and some are content just to see the "big, bad, soulless corporate monolith' get is comeuppance, and that's where a lot of the yelling comes into play.

[Droma]

@teredan: no it isn't it's exactly the opposite. especially if you allways say, but this and that was so good in DAO, why did you get rid of it? most of you people seem to want a next DA which is nearly the same as DAO because that was so great. that isn't progress. it stops it. It's the same topic after every final fantasy game which comes out. there are allways people who thought the last game was so great and are then totally dissappointed if the next game takes a different direction. and who please uses dragon age 2 as a example of complete failure? you people search for that kind of reviews and you certainly get them but that doesn't say anything about the game actually, cause there are allways extreme (/biased) reviews. to show you what i mean i made the huge effort and found 4 reviews for the witcher 2 which gave the game a <=70 score

http://www.destructo...gs-201752.phtml
http://www.metro.co....-the-moral-maze
http://www.actiontri...-of-kings.phtml
http://www.escapistm...of-Kings-Review

so in your own logic this has to mean that these reviews are totally honest and every review which gave TW2 a >= 90 score must have been paid. see the flaws in your logic?

Modifié par Droma, 30 mai 2011 - 06:03 .

[Mike2640]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

Being reasonable has nothing to do with quality or perspective, both of which are lacking in his review.

The same can be said of anyone who played it once and based their views on what other people say from the same boat. My opinion is that It is a crap kneejerk review.

If he had written it with Ten Good Things About Dragon Age 2 it may have stood on its own. I get this reviewer's style, but the OP is bias to a fault and neglected to post this man's collected thoughts on the matter out of either outright laziness or lack of perception.

How was it lacking quality? I'm not even sure how you measure that. He backed up all his complaints with examples in the game. That's quality and perspective.

Also, speaking for myself alone, I played it once through and found it to be a less than average game overall, and were not "Based on what other people say". It's hard to have a knee-jerk reaction to anything you've sank 40 hours into. Then it ceases to be a knee-jerk reaction and becomes informed disdain. I'm sure the same can be said of the others who were unhappy with the game.

Finally, the OP's bias is irrelevant to what we were speaking of.

Modifié par Mike2640, 30 mai 2011 - 06:06 .

[Droma]

it isn't quality to just pick up every bad thing about a game and totally ignore everything that is good about it.

[Romantiq]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I am curious as to just why these reviews are the "must see," while others are not. Or is this another case of assuming we only listen to or read positive reviews?

You do only list positive reviews on your games websites  so why the hell not?
And lets not say that people critisize DAII only because its different from DAO and not because its an obvious low quality product.

Modifié par Romantiq, 30 mai 2011 - 06:15 .

[Mike2640]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Teredan wrote...
sorry that's [nonsense], we have always and will always judge games in manner where we compare them with games that came before them, and that's a good thing this encourages progress, evolution and results ultimately in better games.

No swearing, please.

I would agree wtih you to a point, Teredan. Progress is only encouraged when we get honest feedback about what worked and didn't work. Reactionary hysteria, frequent insults and name-calling, and the constant negativity from the "I told you so" crowd, is not honest feedback and tends to not help anyone. Neither are negative reviews the only "honest" feedback. Unfortunately, the internet has a way of polarizing opinions. Moderate views and opinions are often shouted down by the increasingly vocal extremes, who hope that the frequency and volume of their posts drown out those who don't agree. Heck, we've even seen people being shouted down who simply don't agree enough with a particular viewpoint.

Many of the criticisms of DA2 stem from how different the game is than DA:O. If this is the case you wish to support, isn't it counterproductive to complain about aspects of a game that is different from its predecessor? Evolution of games can't happen if things stay the same all the time.

Not everyone has the same noble goal as you do (ie. to encourage better games). Many only want what is a better game for them, and some are content just to see the "big, bad, soulless corporate monolith' get is comeuppance, and that's where a lot of the yelling comes into play.

I wouldn't say that the criticisms come from it being differen't than Origins, as much as they come from people feeling it was worse than Origins. We compare it to Origins because it came first, but really, if it was a stand alone game, but still marketed the same way, people would still not like the Waves of Enemies, the constant reuse of maps, and the absense of any meaningful choices. Those are complants that have nothing to do with it being the successor to an excellent game.

Other than that, I agree the internet scream-fest is a bit pointless. I can maybe understand being really upset at first, shelling out 60 bucks for a game you ultimately dont like is frustrating (Resident Evil 5<_<), but after a while you'd think people would mellow out a bit.

Modifié par Mike2640, 30 mai 2011 - 06:16 .

[neppakyo]

Droma wrote...

it isn't quality to just pick up every bad thing about a game and totally ignore everything that is good about it.

It is when the bad and horrible outweigh anything positive in the game.

Me, the only good part in DA2 was Act II. Act I and III were a complete mess, and overall the story is disjointed, immersion breaking and plot hole gallore. Not to mention that there is no choice at all, nor the illusion of it. It ends the exact same no matter what you do. I won't mention the fire breathing transformer statues nor the Sith lord boss at the end.. Just horrid.

Varric and Aveline were the only decent companions. Varric, by far was the best out of the entire game. Way better than hawke. Its sad when a games NPC outshines the main protagonist instead of complimenting them.

Fenris -  FF7 cloud clone.
Isabella - cliche pirate hooker with a heart of gold
Merril - Anorexic naive emo chick.
Anders - Turned from a humorous ladies man in awakenings, into a bi-sexual herp derp retard that likes to blow crap up and spout 'woe is me' crap.
Siblings - Not worth a mention as they're taken out as quickly as possible in the game.
Mother - No attachment, and that laughable corpses bride scene.

[Kastagir]

I don't see any reason why certain Bioware employees and/or community representatives wouldn't read as many DA2 reviews as they can find. What I find interesting is the number of reviews of other recently released games that seem to obliquely (and not so obliquely) reference DA2's shortcomings in their attempt to explain the success of one game mechanic or another (here's an example:  http://www.hookedgam...rticle-726.html). I think the displeasure with many aspects of DA2 is evident, not only from the very vocal members of the community here, but from a much larger community that plays many games in the genre. If Bioware is able to look at this with a wider perspective, they should see just how unacceptable DA2 was to the majority of gamers out there. If not, then I wouldn't be surprised to see them cling to the belief that DA2 provides "increased potential," thus stubbornly justifying another lackluster effort in the franchise. I hope that a more rational course of action will prevail, bringing us a Dragon Age title that redeems the franchise and the developer.

edit:  provided URL for an example review

Modifié par Kastagir, 30 mai 2011 - 06:26 .

[Demon Velsper]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Many of the criticisms of DA2 stem from how different the game is than DA:O.

I can't help but wonder if that somehow has something to do with the fact that it's called Dragon Age II and not "New IP".

Marvel of marvels, people expected a sequel to be like the predecessor. I know I thought the Return of the Jedi would be about teddy bears, not sure why everyone thought it'd be about space and stuff.

[neppakyo]

Demon Velsper wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Many of the criticisms of DA2 stem from how different the game is than DA:O.

I can't help but wonder if that somehow has something to do with the fact that it's called Dragon Age II and not "New IP".

Marvel of marvels, people expected a sequel to be like the predecessor. I know I thought the Return of the Jedi would be about teddy bears, not sure why everyone thought it'd be about space and stuff.

I thought return of the jedi was about a spaceship that transforms into a giant maid...

[Mike2640]

Demon Velsper wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Many of the criticisms of DA2 stem from how different the game is than DA:O.

I can't help but wonder if that somehow has something to do with the fact that it's called Dragon Age II and not "New IP".

Marvel of marvels, people expected a sequel to be like the predecessor. I know I thought the Return of the Jedi would be about teddy bears, not sure why everyone thought it'd be about space and stuff.

Well to be fair, like half of it was about Teddy bears.

[Corto81]

Stanley Woo wrote...
Not everyone has the same noble goal as you do (ie. to encourage better games). Many only want what is a better game for them,

IMO a vast majority of the "RPG audience" sees Origins as a much superior game to DA2.
So "them", in this case, are your core customers... IMO anyway.

By most accounts, the sales have been rather "meh" for a BW product (DA2), and it certainly didn't gather general critic acclaim - most ratings have it the worst BW product in years.

...

Personally, I can't encourage both games, sorry.
To me, Origins, while not perfect, was a great game and a proper RPG.

In my view, DA2 is just a mediocre game, and by BW standards, a bad one.
And that in the year when TW2 and Skyrim are coming out is not a good sign.

You guys made 5 or 6 of the top-10 RPGs ever. 
You are the kings of RPGs, and have been for a long time.
You're capable of so much more than the lackluster mess of action-adventure/hack'n'slash/MMO quests/with elements of RPG that Dragon Age 2 was.

...

And personally, I certainly can't see the logic in stepping away from the RPG core to appeal to a broader audience - when the product ends up selling less and hurts your reputation as a master at RPG making.

Modifié par Corto81, 30 mai 2011 - 06:37 .

[Droma]

Demon Velsper wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Many of the criticisms of DA2 stem from how different the game is than DA:O.

I can't help but wonder if that somehow has something to do with the fact that it's called Dragon Age II and not "New IP".

Marvel of marvels, people expected a sequel to be like the predecessor. I know I thought the Return of the Jedi would be about teddy bears, not sure why everyone thought it'd be about space and stuff.

you never played a final fantasy game did you? not every game is a cod where the don't change the game at all just because it's a huge success. and therefore bioware earned a lot of respect from me (so does squar enix with every ff game). they make mistakes and sometimes the games get worse, but at least they try to improve their genre and innovate it. for example the friendship rivalry system was innovative and well done (in my opinion xP)

[Foolsfolly]

That rock, paper, shotgun one is really great. Some misspellings and typos but really spot on otherwise.

[DragonRageGT]

Droma wrote...

...to show you what i mean i made the huge effort and found 4 reviews for the witcher 2 which gave the game a <=70 score

http://www.destructo...gs-201752.phtml
http://www.metro.co....-the-moral-maze
http://www.actiontri...-of-kings.phtml
http://www.escapistm...of-Kings-Review

so in your own logic this has to mean that these reviews are totally honest and every review which gave TW2 a >= 90 score must have been paid. see the flaws in your logic?

Not really.

You have some 90% of DA2 reviews pointing it as a lesser sequel to a great game. And 10% saying it's the bestest RPG ever and it reminds Baldur's Gate!

Now, you have 90% of TW2 reviews pointing out it is a masterpiece and 10% saying it is too hard, no button=awesone and "I dislike the game because I suck at it" !

Not surprisingly, some of those 10% are the same in both situation!

But Rock Paper Shotgun said DA2 is a good game, which I agree, even if Origins is much better, which I agree and the main question they ask is:

If this weren’t a BioWare game, weren’t a sequel to Dragon Age, what would I think of it? Where would it rate in the history of RPGs?

And a new one... If The Witcher 2 were a Bioware game? What would you say about it? It's definitely the best RPG in recent times, pair with Origins, and even people who loved DA2 can appreciate it as such. It does feel like a game only Bioware could have done.

Please Bioware, give the boots to EA and joint venture with the Poles!!!

P.S.: Thanks Alistair Lover for the link!

Modifié par RageGT, 30 mai 2011 - 07:02 .

[Cutlass Jack]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I am curious as to just why these reviews are the "must see," while others are not. Or is this another case of assuming we only listen to or read positive reviews?

Must See= "Reviews that closest match my opinion."

[Teredan]

Stanley Woo wrote...
1.No swearing, please.

I would agree wtih you to a point, Teredan. Progress is only encouraged when we get honest feedback about what worked and didn't work. 2.Reactionary hysteria, frequent insults and name-calling, and the constant negativity from the "I told you so" crowd, is not honest feedback and tends to not help anyone. Neither are negative reviews the only "honest" feedback. Unfortunately, the internet has a way of polarizing opinions. Moderate views and opinions are often shouted down by the increasingly vocal extremes, who hope that the frequency and volume of their posts drown out those who don't agree. Heck, we've even seen people being shouted down who simply don't agree enough with a particular viewpoint.

3. Many of the criticisms of DA2 stem from how different the game is than DA:O. If this is the case you wish to support, isn't it counterproductive to complain about aspects of a game that is different from its predecessor? Evolution of games can't happen if things stay the same all the time.

4. Not everyone has the same noble goal as you do (ie. to encourage better games). Many only want what is a better game for them, and some are content just to see the "big, bad, soulless corporate monolith' get is comeuppance, and that's where a lot of the yelling comes into play.

1.Sorry for that,
2. I agree and I don't envy you guys that have to dig through all these things to get to needle of truth in that haystock of discouraging comments.
3. I dare to argue that most of the people that complained only about how DA2 is so different to Origins have not really looked at DA2 or have not really thought about the real core issue of DA2 shortcomings.
But I also have seen many post that pointed those shortcomings out in a constructive manner (but I'm sure you've seen those post). Quite a few people looked at what you guys did and agreed that a lot of ideas that went into DA2 were pretty fantastic on paper, but came short in their execution (for whatever reason is a entirely different discussion).
4. hyperbole much? (nothing noble about it, having better games serves everyone but I feel people have to be reminded of that, and since you guys aren't exactly in a position where you can do that let the community deal with that)

Droma wrote...

@teredan: no it isn't it's exactly the
opposite. 1.especially if you allways say, but this and that was so good
in DAO, why did you get rid of it? most of you people seem to want a
next DA which is nearly the same as DAO because that was so great. that
isn't progress. it stops it. It's the same topic after every final
fantasy game which comes out. there are allways people who thought the
last game was so great and are then totally dissappointed if the next
game takes a different direction. 2.and who please uses dragon age 2 as a
example of complete failure? you people search for that kind of reviews
and you certainly get them but that doesn't say anything about the game
actually, cause there are allways extreme (/biased) reviews. to show you
what i mean i made the huge effort and found 4 reviews for the witcher 2
which gave the game a <=70 score

http://www.destructo...gs-201752.phtml
http://www.metro.co....-the-moral-maze
http://www.actiontri...-of-kings.phtml
http://www.escapistm...of-Kings-Review

3. so
in your own logic this has to mean that these reviews are totally
honest and every review which gave TW2 a >= 90 score must have been
paid. see the flaws in your logic?

1. First of all where did I state that? Second of all I don't believe that people want a DA2 that is almost the same as DA:O they want a DA2 that builds upon the strengths of DA:O brings new things in without taking working things away. Innovation does not only happen within reinvention. Refining things that were good in the first place can pay huge benefits.
2. Utter failure stretches it a bit in the grand picture of games but in the more overseeable picture of bioware games it's kind of relatable. I watch at other games and look at DA2 and see how many corners were cut in it. Sorry but having only one place and having a ton ot enviroment reuse are design decisions that don't mix well and only resource constraint can justify it from a developement perspective(not a costumer perspective). Or having an almost static city over a course of 7 years. (the list could go on)
3. again you're stating things that I haven't said this bothers me a lot. I never even mentioned anything about TW2 and if you're adressing me don't speak to me as if I were "people". Adress me individually or not at all. I want to add that you clearly haven't watched the review from escapist  who haven't attached any kind of score to TW2 in their review and have pointed out that it's not a game for everyone and that a lot of people might be pissed about it's game mechanics.

Modifié par Teredan, 30 mai 2011 - 07:45 .

[ToJKa1]

neppakyo wrote...

I thought return of the jedi was about a spaceship that transforms into a giant maid...

Ah, so DA2 is to Origins what Spaceballs was to Star Wars; fun on it's own, but does not compare to the real thing

Modifié par ToJKa1, 30 mai 2011 - 07:12 .

[FiachSidhe]

Droma wrote...

again funny how people on this forum think they are the majority with their opinions =D and it's more garbage if a review just shows the bad stuff about a game and totally ignores anythng good about the game. but that's the problem with high expectations that people have. try to judge a game by it's own and not by it's predecessor(s). then you could see that da2 is in fact a quite good game. not a perfect one and no 9.0 one, but it isn't total garbage aswell. but i don't know pc gamers nowaydays seem to allways think that every game is bad because it is "dumbed" down for those baaad console gamers.

and allways funny how every bad review is the one and only truth and every good review was paid by ea. all you people who disliked the game actually believe everyone else has to hate it too or is paid by ea? you can't believe that some people don't bother that much about the new ways da2 was going?

Agreed. It seems that, the crux of the complaints, come from arrogant PC hermits who think "RPG" means slow deliberate, and awkward combat, that when struggled through, makes one a better gamer.  The game has flaws. Lots of them, but ultimately it also has great ideas that I enjoyed way more than Origins.

There may be reasons, but ultimately I get the feeling that those who can't shut up about DA2, are just trying to pad what really amounts to "CONSOLE-TARDS WON!" I'm talking about the people who go so far as to say the game sucked. Not the few who actually wrote down legitimate issues, and flaws and presented them like normal adults.

While DA 2 isn't as good as Origins, it is far from a bad game. I've played Hellboy: Asylum Seeker, so a game really needs to dig deep to impress me with it's awfulness. It's a step in the right direction, but lets face it, it was rushed. Rushing games NEVER ends up well. Personally I like that Bioware is always trying to push the genre forward. I like here they're trying to take the series, but EA is not doing them any favors. Even the best ideas can look bad when presented poorly.

The complaints about the dialogue wheel are especially ridiculous. It's the same damn thing, only it looks like a wheel. The choices indicate what emotion you're going to display, which is much better than guessing the writers' intent entirely through text, with no direction cited. Other than having MORE options, I find the complaint hypcritical, as these are also coupled with the "dumbed down combat".

There are lots of lessons to be learned from this game, however, taking a point of pride away from PC gamers isn't one of them.
The fact is, people liked this game, more people than those who hated it. So much so that the people who hated it needed to invade Metacritic to create the illusion of support.
The third game should learn from the mistakes in this one, but not having a complex system to make you feel, smart isn't a problem for anyone else.

Modifié par FiachSidhe, 30 mai 2011 - 07:30 .

[KnifeForkAndSpoon]

FiachSidhe wrote...
The fact is, people liked this game, more people than those who hated it.

That's not the impression I got.

FiachSidhe wrote...
So much so that the people who hated it needed to invade Metacritic to create the illusion of support.

It's amazing that people still believe this.

[Mike2640]

FiachSidhe wrote...

Droma wrote...

again funny how people on this forum think they are the majority with their opinions =D and it's more garbage if a review just shows the bad stuff about a game and totally ignores anythng good about the game. but that's the problem with high expectations that people have. try to judge a game by it's own and not by it's predecessor(s). then you could see that da2 is in fact a quite good game. not a perfect one and no 9.0 one, but it isn't total garbage aswell. but i don't know pc gamers nowaydays seem to allways think that every game is bad because it is "dumbed" down for those baaad console gamers.

and allways funny how every bad review is the one and only truth and every good review was paid by ea. all you people who disliked the game actually believe everyone else has to hate it too or is paid by ea? you can't believe that some people don't bother that much about the new ways da2 was going?

Agreed. IT seems the crux of the complaints come from arrogant PC hermits who think "RPG" means slow deliberate and awkward combat that when struggled through makes one a better gamer.  The game has flaws. Lots of them, but ultimately it also has great ideas that enjoyed way more than Origins.

There may be reasons but ultimately I get the feeling that those who can't shut up about DA2 are just trying to pad what really amounts to "CONSOLE-TARDS WON!"

Not really. I don't see how criticizing the awful wave combat, lack of choice, and reusing maps = "CONSOLE-TARDS WON!", and I don't see how people pointing out how inferior the game was to it's predecessor somehow pushes an agenda.

While DA 2 isn't as good as Origins, it is far from a bad game. I've played Hellboy: Asylum Seeker, so a game really needs to dig deep to impress me with it's awfulness, to declare it as crap. It's a step in the right direction but lets face it, it was rushed. Rushing games NEVER ends up well. Personally I like that Bioware is always trying to push the genre forward.

Agreed for the most part, but compare something to shovelware and it always looks good. Resident Evil 5 is better than Big Rigs, that doesn't mean I would recommend it.

The complaints about the dialogue wheel are especially ridiculous. It's the same damn thing, only it looks like a wheel. The choices indicate what emotion you're going to display, which is much better than guessing the writers' intent entirely through text, with no direction cited. Other than having MORE options, I find the complaint hypcritical, as these are also coupled with the "dumbed down combat".

The combat was much worse, which goes hand in hand with the waves. The wheel is pretty much subjective, and although I didn't prefer it (I like knowing what I'm going to say, as well as having more options, even if the differences in the NPC responses are minimal), but I know there are those that did.

There are lots of lessons to be learned from this game, however, taking a point of pride away from PC gamers isn't one of them.
The fact is, people liked this game, more people than those who hated it. So much so that the people who hated it needed to invade Metacritic to create the illusion of support.

I would love for you to prove that.

The third game should learn from the mistakes in this one, but not having a complex system to make you feel, smart isn't a problem for anyone else.

Well, it's got quite a lot to learn from. And I don't think people feel "smarter" playing Origins, but I certainly felt stupid playing DA2.

[Teredan]

FiachSidhe wrote...

Agreed. It seems that, the crux of the complaints, come from arrogant PC hermits who think "RPG" means slow deliberate, and awkward combat, that when struggled through, makes one a better gamer.  The game has flaws. Lots of them, but ultimately it also has great ideas that I enjoyed way more than Origins.

There may be reasons, but ultimately I get the feeling that those who can't shut up about DA2, are just trying to pad what really amounts to "CONSOLE-TARDS WON!"

While DA 2 isn't as good as Origins, it is far from a bad game. I've played Hellboy: Asylum Seeker, so a game really needs to dig deep to impress me with it's awfulness. It's a step in the right direction, but lets face it, it was rushed. Rushing games NEVER ends up well. Personally I like that Bioware is always trying to push the genre forward.

The complaints about the dialogue wheel are especially ridiculous. It's the same damn thing, only it looks like a wheel. The choices indicate what emotion you're going to display, which is much better than guessing the writers' intent entirely through text, with no direction cited. Other than having MORE options, I find the complaint hypcritical, as these are also coupled with the "dumbed down combat".

There are lots of lessons to be learned from this game, however, taking a point of pride away from PC gamers isn't one of them.
The fact is, people liked this game, more people than those who hated it. So much so that the people who hated it needed to invade Metacritic to create the illusion of support.
The third game should learn from the mistakes in this one, but not having a complex system to make you feel, smart isn't a problem for anyone else.

I'm gonna disagree with you here, don't take me wrong I too have seen ridiculous complaints about that but I've also read a few justified ones. First of all it's not the same, that's fact if it were then there wouldn't be any complaints. 
My problem is rooted in my preference (I admit that). The way the wheel is implemented in it's current form kills any kind diversity of lines(which I liked). You have these lines classified. And the categories they belong to are far too few. Having only good and evil answer already got boring after Mass Effect. Not to say that DA2 had no fun dialog, remember the times where no clear icon was attached to the answers I enjoyed those the most sadly they didn't have any impact.