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Reviews BioWare must see


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#101
FiachSidhe

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Shirosaki17 wrote...
Where's the evidence? One Bioware employee mentioned it but didn't provide a source for it. Also the ratings in the first few days were small compared to where they are now. So this idea that 4chan had a negative affect on that score is ludicrous. I'd like to see some proof though that they organized some sort of raid on there. I've seen none.


Why wouldn't they? They did it on Wikipedia (see below link). Do you really think this is so unlikely? The same guys who hacked the PSN because they deluded themselves into thinking they can just make up their own rights? The site famous for raids?

www.alisonhaislip.com/forum/index.php

Modifié par FiachSidhe, 30 mai 2011 - 10:11 .


#102
Aesieru

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True, but that's why I want to see the real investment facts, to see if they really did broaden or succeed, or if they'll just keep spouting the same fanciful lies and hoping for a better future.

I would think Mass Effect would have given them some income seeing as how it came out first.

And yeah, if EA left their hands off of it like they used to do when they were FIRST created, then they'd get a good game of the year and not some thing people have to argue over if it sucks entirely or not.

---

Um... Anonymous did NOT hack Metacritic... the PSN hack is very different and Anonymous had to refute responsibility for it because a small group did it on their own.

Modifié par Aesieru, 30 mai 2011 - 10:12 .


#103
Shirosaki17

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FiachSidhe wrote...

Shirosaki17 wrote...

FiachSidhe wrote...
Heh...WOW.
Gotta be honest, you probbaly should. It... sorta makes you look ignorant.
The bolded statement proves you couldn't even be bothered to read, what you so smuggly were trying to call me on.

You can make up all sorts of excuses, that rationalize what you wrote, but it doesn't matter.
You said it yourself, you don't care. Why should I (or anyone) care enough to even bother reading what you wrote after that, if you can't even be bothered to read the one line that would have avoided you opening your mouth and removing all doubt?

I'm sorry if I didn't devote a huge chunk of my posts to how 10/10 scores are ridiculous (and they are, I always skip right past them for any game).
Oh wait, no, I'm really, really not.
I mentioned it, you failed to read it, tried to throw it in my face, and now make excuses as to why it's not good enough. So I'll do you the same courtesy you did me, Instead of ignoring one line of mine, I'll ignore all but one line of yours.

Anymore ignorant than someone who makes up stuff about 4chan raids?

*Not intended to be a factual statement.*


When the information that proves you wrong, is literally a milimeter from your own response, blatantly announcing the absence of said information? Yeah, just a bit.

You can prove me wrong, as easily as I can prove myself right at this point. Seeing as it is an old event and nothing remains on 4chan for more than 30 seconds.
So, I fail to see how you have an argument other than "My lack of proof trumps yours".

You said there was a 4chan raid. The burden of proof isn't on me to prove there isn't one. There is no evidence of one. You don't even know how many people gave those fake reviews from this supposed raid. It could have been just a few people trolling and you're calling it a raid. If that's what you mean by raid, then I'll agree that there were people trolling the Metacritic score for DA2. How many people were doing it though, and how many reviews did they give? You don't know. I doubt all the trolls came from 4chan.

A raid, as I understand it, implies there were atleast 50-100 people involved. I highly doubt that was the case here and would love to see proof to the contrary.

All you're doing is speculating and ignoring the fact that more people didn't like the game overall than did on Metacritic since it has a ton more reviews

The number of metacritic reviews on the website were small in the first few days of release compared to where they are now. I was here at release and playing DA2. I know what they looked like. They didn't cause the score to stay below 5 for months after release when they now have 5-10 times the reviews than they had then. DA2 being an unpopular game has caused the score to stay relatively the same.

Modifié par Shirosaki17, 30 mai 2011 - 10:22 .


#104
FiachSidhe

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Shirosaki17 wrote...

FiachSidhe wrote...

Shirosaki17 wrote...

FiachSidhe wrote...
Heh...WOW.
Gotta be honest, you probbaly should. It... sorta makes you look ignorant.
The bolded statement proves you couldn't even be bothered to read, what you so smuggly were trying to call me on.

You can make up all sorts of excuses, that rationalize what you wrote, but it doesn't matter.
You said it yourself, you don't care. Why should I (or anyone) care enough to even bother reading what you wrote after that, if you can't even be bothered to read the one line that would have avoided you opening your mouth and removing all doubt?

I'm sorry if I didn't devote a huge chunk of my posts to how 10/10 scores are ridiculous (and they are, I always skip right past them for any game).
Oh wait, no, I'm really, really not.
I mentioned it, you failed to read it, tried to throw it in my face, and now make excuses as to why it's not good enough. So I'll do you the same courtesy you did me, Instead of ignoring one line of mine, I'll ignore all but one line of yours.

Anymore ignorant than someone who makes up stuff about 4chan raids?

*Not intended to be a factual statement.*


When the information that proves you wrong, is literally a milimeter from your own response, blatantly announcing the absence of said information? Yeah, just a bit.

You can prove me wrong, as easily as I can prove myself right at this point. Seeing as it is an old event and nothing remains on 4chan for more than 30 seconds.
So, I fail to see how you have an argument other than "My lack of proof trumps yours".

You said there was a 4chan raid. The burden of proof isn't on me to prove there isn't one. There is no evidence of one. You don't even know how many people gave those fake reviews from this supposed raid. It could have been just a few people trolling and you're calling it a raid. If that's what you mean by raid, then I'll agree that there were people trolling the Metacritic score for DA2. How many people were doing it though, and how many reviews did they give? You don't know.

A raid, as I understand it, implies there were atleast 50-100 people involved. I highly doubt that was the case here and would love to see proof to the contrary.

All you're doing is speculating and ignoring the fact that more people didn't like the game overall than did on Metacritic since it has a ton more reviews

The number of metacritic reviews on the website were small in the first few days of release compared to where they are now. I was here at release and playing DA2. I know what they looked like. They didn't cause the score to stay below 5 for months after release when they now have 5-10 times the reviews than they had then.


Can the burden of proof nonsense, that's an excuse made by people who tell someone how wrong they are, but can't prove it. So you hide behind some lame defense. You just came in second on claims, that's all.

The thing is, since the 4chan entries talking about how they should go to Metacritic and all rate it 0/10, doesn't exist anymore. It's pretty common knowledge at this point, that Metacritic was raided. If not by 4chan than someone. It's obvious to most people.

Modifié par FiachSidhe, 30 mai 2011 - 10:21 .


#105
jcp234

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Kastagir wrote...

I don't see any reason why certain Bioware employees and/or community representatives wouldn't read as many DA2 reviews as they can find. What I find interesting is the number of reviews of other recently released games that seem to obliquely (and not so obliquely) reference DA2's shortcomings in their attempt to explain the success of one game mechanic or another (here's an example:  http://www.hookedgam...rticle-726.html). I think the displeasure with many aspects of DA2 is evident, not only from the very vocal members of the community here, but from a much larger community that plays many games in the genre. If Bioware is able to look at this with a wider perspective, they should see just how unacceptable DA2 was to the majority of gamers out there. If not, then I wouldn't be surprised to see them cling to the belief that DA2 provides "increased potential," thus stubbornly justifying another lackluster effort in the franchise. I hope that a more rational course of action will prevail, bringing us a Dragon Age title that redeems the franchise and the developer.

edit:  provided URL for an example review


I agree. I own Dragon Age 2 on the PS3 (I played Dragon Age: Origins on my PC), and DA2 is just an all around lackluster RPG. The negatives definitely overwhelm the positives...the art direction, plot, execution, character development, gameplay mechanics...everything is just poorly handled IMO. especially compared to Dragon Age Origins. The backlash from both recreational gamers and professionals in the gaming community is pretty evident.

#106
jcp234

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Demon Velsper wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Many of the criticisms of DA2 stem from how different the game is than DA:O.

I can't help but wonder if that somehow has something to do with the fact that it's called Dragon Age II and not "New IP".

Marvel of marvels, people expected a sequel to be like the predecessor. I know I thought the Return of the Jedi would be about teddy bears, not sure why everyone thought it'd be about space and stuff.


LOL Well played. This literally had me laughing out loud.

#107
Shirosaki17

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FiachSidhe wrote...

Shirosaki17 wrote...

FiachSidhe wrote...

Shirosaki17 wrote...

FiachSidhe wrote...
Heh...WOW.
Gotta be honest, you probbaly should. It... sorta makes you look ignorant.
The bolded statement proves you couldn't even be bothered to read, what you so smuggly were trying to call me on.

You can make up all sorts of excuses, that rationalize what you wrote, but it doesn't matter.
You said it yourself, you don't care. Why should I (or anyone) care enough to even bother reading what you wrote after that, if you can't even be bothered to read the one line that would have avoided you opening your mouth and removing all doubt?

I'm sorry if I didn't devote a huge chunk of my posts to how 10/10 scores are ridiculous (and they are, I always skip right past them for any game).
Oh wait, no, I'm really, really not.
I mentioned it, you failed to read it, tried to throw it in my face, and now make excuses as to why it's not good enough. So I'll do you the same courtesy you did me, Instead of ignoring one line of mine, I'll ignore all but one line of yours.

Anymore ignorant than someone who makes up stuff about 4chan raids?

*Not intended to be a factual statement.*


When the information that proves you wrong, is literally a milimeter from your own response, blatantly announcing the absence of said information? Yeah, just a bit.

You can prove me wrong, as easily as I can prove myself right at this point. Seeing as it is an old event and nothing remains on 4chan for more than 30 seconds.
So, I fail to see how you have an argument other than "My lack of proof trumps yours".

You said there was a 4chan raid. The burden of proof isn't on me to prove there isn't one. There is no evidence of one. You don't even know how many people gave those fake reviews from this supposed raid. It could have been just a few people trolling and you're calling it a raid. If that's what you mean by raid, then I'll agree that there were people trolling the Metacritic score for DA2. How many people were doing it though, and how many reviews did they give? You don't know.

A raid, as I understand it, implies there were atleast 50-100 people involved. I highly doubt that was the case here and would love to see proof to the contrary.

All you're doing is speculating and ignoring the fact that more people didn't like the game overall than did on Metacritic since it has a ton more reviews

The number of metacritic reviews on the website were small in the first few days of release compared to where they are now. I was here at release and playing DA2. I know what they looked like. They didn't cause the score to stay below 5 for months after release when they now have 5-10 times the reviews than they had then.


Can the burden of proof nonsense, that's an excuse made by people who tell someone how wrong they are, but can't prove it. So you hide behind some lame defense. You just came in second on claims, that's all.

The thing is, since the 4chan entries talking about how they should go to Metacritic and all rate it 0/10, doesn't exist anymore. It's pretty common knowledge at this point, that Metacritic was raided. If not by 4chan than someone. It's obvious to most people.

So a post where one person said they should do a raid on Metacritic means there was a raid? How many joined that thread? How long did they take to organize it? Did they say they were going to instead of they should? Was it even more than a few people?

Now it may have not been a 4chan raid but it could have been someone else? It's obvious? In what way?

I like how you're backing away from the fact that you said that it was a 4chan raid, and now that it could be someone else that raided. The truth is you don't know.

You still ignoring the fact that there were only a few hundred reviews in the first week of DA2's release while there is over 5k now and the score hasn't changed much.

Modifié par Shirosaki17, 30 mai 2011 - 10:31 .


#108
Aesieru

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This is going no where fast...

I have no desire to "provide proof", but take it for what you will, but there was confirmed 4chan influence in the beginning, other than that I'm not privy to as I haven't followed.

#109
FiachSidhe

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Also Shirosaki, your response is a logical fallacy. You're trying to lump any legitimate, negative review in with the reviews I'm objecting to.

If I say the place was raided, than I clearly ignored all negative reviews.

I never claimed that all negative reviews were the result of a raid. I'm saying that anyone with half a brain can figure out that the massive wave of over the top 0/10 reviews is obviously disingenuous.

Far more than the occasional person who simply gives things they like 10/10. As in this case, it was done out of spite to ruin a game and company's finances based entirely on entitlement and disappointment.

Modifié par FiachSidhe, 30 mai 2011 - 10:35 .


#110
Shirosaki17

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Aesieru wrote...

This is going no where fast...

I have no desire to "provide proof", but take it for what you will, but there was confirmed 4chan influence in the beginning, other than that I'm not privy to as I haven't followed.

Who confirmed it? How big was this influence. I don't doubt that there is a possiblity of a few people from 4chan trolling Metacritics. But the idea that there is this raid with no proof except that one thread where one person said they "should" raid DA2 metacritics, is not enough to pretend that this was a raid where a ton of people gave bad reviews for DA2 just to spite the company.

FiachSidhe wrote...

Also Shirosaki, your response is a logical fallacy. You're trying to lump any legitimate, negative review in with the reviews I'm objecting to. 

If I say the place was raided, than I clearly ignored all negative reviews. 

I never claimed that all negative reviews were the result of a raid. I'm saying that anyone with half a brain can figure out that the massive wave of over the top 0/10 reviews is obviously disingenuous. 

Far more than the occasional person who simply gives things they like 10/10. As in this case, it was done out of spite to ruin a game and company's finances based entirely on entitlement and disappointment.

No I'm implying that you're making up excuses for why DA2 was reviewed so poorly on Metacritic. You're making up a raid that you don't even know took place, you just heard about it. You don't know how many people were involved in this raid or how many fake reviews they gave.

My point has always been that even if it's true that it's a drop in the bucket compared to the other reviews that have been released over the past 3 months. That website is littered with 0,1, and 10 scores. You will see a ton of 10s for a generally well liked game, and rarely anything in between.

Modifié par Shirosaki17, 30 mai 2011 - 10:39 .


#111
FiachSidhe

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Seriously though, Aesieru has the right idea. I've wasted too much time arguing with you.

I just don't care about proving anything to you anymore. You've gone on record, as saying you don't care about anything that proves you wrong, even a simple thing like reading what you respond to.
So even if I did offer up proof, you'd just have yet another excuse, and change your argument.

#112
Shirosaki17

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FiachSidhe wrote...

Seriously though, Aesieru has the right idea. I've wasted too much time arguing with you.

I just don't care about proving anything to you anymore. You've gone on record, as saying you don't care about anything that proves you wrong, even a simple thing like reading what you respond to.
So even if I did offer up proof, you'd just have yet another excuse, and change your argument.

No you've already changed your story and are now saying there may not have been a 4chan raid but someone had to have raided Metacritic. It's absurd.

#113
Realmzmaster

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Actually I never expected DA2 to be like DAO. I expected DA2 to be about the world of Thedas. I knew from research that DA2 was going in a different direction. I also knew that there was a new lead from DAO. I understood that the visions would be different. I researched Laidlaw previous assignments. I knew he worked on Action-RPG Jade Empire. So I knew that the combat was going to be different.
I liked DA2, it is a flawed product. I liked DAO which had its problems. But none of them compare to Wizardry, Bards Tale , Ultimas or the Might and Magic series. But I knew how tedious those games were. You had to have a lot of patience to play those games.

My wife could never get into those games. DA2 she actually showed interest. She was able to get into it far more than other games.
So on that note alone (among others) DA2 gets a thumbs up from me.

#114
yfullman

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I believe DA2 was designed to focus on the console market, and seeing as how the ps3 and 360 markets combined vastly outnumber the pc's it is a very intelligent decision. I can understand the anger some of the louder pc gamers show though. Improving a game for consoles shouldn't mean ostracizing the pc fanbase, but calling DA2 the worse game you have ever played is ludicrous. The majority of console players, myself included, agree that many of the changes made were genuine improvements, like the closer to real-time combat, the altered graphics that make DA look like its own game and not just another lord of the rings ripoff, and automatically putting useless loot into the trash to later be sold.

However, DA2 has many obvious and glaring flaws. I would have found the revisited environments more bearable if they were larger, and changed as the years went by. I feel as if the Sacred ashes quest alone had a much larger area than the entire game of DA2. And When I first heard that DA2 would span an entire decade I was very excited, but the execution was less than impressive. Kirkwall's color changes slightly with each act but that's bout it. Now the whole "spanning a decade" thing just seemed like a hook to get people interested.

And of having a decade to build relationships was very intriguing, until once you finished the game you realize in over 7 years you spoken to each companion maybe 6 times, Your companions still look basically the same, and as far as I know, unlike how you could influence the personalities of some of your team in origins, aside from the final battle, everyone on your team has had no change of heart due to your influence. Anders will go through with his terrorism no matter what, Isabella is still a ****, Merrill is still a dumb malificar who gets the keeper killed, etc.

The addition of a voiced main character can be taken either way. I feel dialogue was handled better here than in mass effect, given that how you acted in the beginning of the game actually influenced how your character would act in cutscenes and whether you had certain dialogue options or not. I certainly had more of a connection to Hawke than I did to my warden but I don't feel that DOA suffered because you character lacked a voice. I notice that in games that lack a voiced protagonist, the rest of the cast has to work much harder, and this is where DAO outshines DA2.

I LOVED every single companion in DAO. In no other game have I felt such a connection to every single character.Even one who I disagreed with, I still cared for them. While in DA2 I love Varric, Aveline, Bethany, and Isabella, but I really couldn't care less for the others. Maybe for the story's sake the other companions were made to be more polarizing but still...

The addition of a family was also interesting to me but I feel it fell flat on ocassion. Given that I saw carver killed about 24 minutes after I learned his name I realized I really didn't care. I would have had a seperate origin for the mage & warrior/rogue hawke.Like the warrior origin would start with hawke fleeing ostagar with carver and maybe throw in a wynne cameo idk, and for the mage have hawke and bethany actually work with the templar captain in lothering to repel darkspawn scouts idk so they could build some connection wit the brother of sister who would soon be killed.

Ultimately, I feel that DA2 is an ambitious, excellent, but flawed game. Many of the promised features felt half done, and the game felt like it was rushed. I applaud Bioware for finally doing a game without the same formula they've been doing for years. Insert protagonist who is the member of a select order of warriors, give prophetic dreams, que plot twist, roll credits. So of the things done are improvements, but others are serious issues, especially for the pc players. I feel that DA2's only purpose was to set the stage for the rest of the DA universe

8/10 console

6/10 pc

#115
Aesieru

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It's not a good game as a console game... unless we're trying to say console games are somehow inferior...

I've played a lot of great console games... this isn't in those rankings... it had no enjoyment.

#116
Teredan

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yfullman wrote...

I believe DA2 was designed to focus on the console market, and seeing as how the ps3 and 360 markets combined vastly outnumber the pc's it is a very intelligent decision. I can understand the anger some of the louder pc gamers show though. Improving a game for consoles shouldn't mean ostracizing the pc fanbase, but calling DA2 the worse game you have ever played is ludicrous. The majority of console players, myself included, agree that many of the changes made were genuine improvements, like the closer to real-time combat, the altered graphics that make DA look like its own game and not just another lord of the rings ripoff, and automatically putting useless loot into the trash to later be sold.

However, DA2 has many obvious and glaring flaws. I would have found the revisited environments more bearable if they were larger, and changed as the years went by. I feel as if the Sacred ashes quest alone had a much larger area than the entire game of DA2. And When I first heard that DA2 would span an entire decade I was very excited, but the execution was less than impressive. Kirkwall's color changes slightly with each act but that's bout it. Now the whole "spanning a decade" thing just seemed like a hook to get people interested.

And of having a decade to build relationships was very intriguing, until once you finished the game you realize in over 7 years you spoken to each companion maybe 6 times, Your companions still look basically the same, and as far as I know, unlike how you could influence the personalities of some of your team in origins, aside from the final battle, everyone on your team has had no change of heart due to your influence. Anders will go through with his terrorism no matter what, Isabella is still a ****, Merrill is still a dumb malificar who gets the keeper killed, etc.

The addition of a voiced main character can be taken either way. I feel dialogue was handled better here than in mass effect, given that how you acted in the beginning of the game actually influenced how your character would act in cutscenes and whether you had certain dialogue options or not. I certainly had more of a connection to Hawke than I did to my warden but I don't feel that DOA suffered because you character lacked a voice. I notice that in games that lack a voiced protagonist, the rest of the cast has to work much harder, and this is where DAO outshines DA2.

I LOVED every single companion in DAO. In no other game have I felt such a connection to every single character.Even one who I disagreed with, I still cared for them. While in DA2 I love Varric, Aveline, Bethany, and Isabella, but I really couldn't care less for the others. Maybe for the story's sake the other companions were made to be more polarizing but still...

The addition of a family was also interesting to me but I feel it fell flat on ocassion. Given that I saw carver killed about 24 minutes after I learned his name I realized I really didn't care. I would have had a seperate origin for the mage & warrior/rogue hawke.Like the warrior origin would start with hawke fleeing ostagar with carver and maybe throw in a wynne cameo idk, and for the mage have hawke and bethany actually work with the templar captain in lothering to repel darkspawn scouts idk so they could build some connection wit the brother of sister who would soon be killed.

Ultimately, I feel that DA2 is an ambitious, excellent, but flawed game. Many of the promised features felt half done, and the game felt like it was rushed. I applaud Bioware for finally doing a game without the same formula they've been doing for years. Insert protagonist who is the member of a select order of warriors, give prophetic dreams, que plot twist, roll credits. So of the things done are improvements, but others are serious issues, especially for the pc players. I feel that DA2's only purpose was to set the stage for the rest of the DA universe

8/10 console

6/10 pc


I'm sorry but that notion seems so incomprehensable to me, bad games are bad games no matter the platform.
Console gamer can enjoy sophisticated experiences too. There is know reasoning to dumb something down for console gamers that's just a lazy trope.
I mean come one, consoles got Heavy Rain and recently L.A. Noire games that you can call anything but shallow.
The only difference that should be rightfully made between consoles and PC is menu navigation and control schemes, never the content.

#117
Shirosaki17

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Teredan wrote...
I'm sorry but that notion seems so incomprehensable to me, bad games are bad games no matter the platform.
Console gamer can enjoy sophisticated experiences too. There is know reasoning to dumb something down for console gamers that's just a lazy trope.
I mean come one, consoles got Heavy Rain and recently L.A. Noire games that you can call anything but shallow.
The only difference that should be rightfully made between consoles and PC is menu navigation and control schemes, never the content.

Could have something to do with the consoles being older hardware and the pressure to create shiny new games with awesome graphics means you have to cut other features in other areas. Also the controllers may cause some limitations, but the sad fact is they appear to limit and cut features when putting a game a on consoles.

#118
Wozearly

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yfullman wrote...

The majority of console players, myself included, agree that many of the changes made were genuine improvements, like the closer to real-time combat, the altered graphics that make DA look like its own game and not just another lord of the rings ripoff, and automatically putting useless loot into the trash to later be sold.

So of the things done are improvements, but others are serious issues, especially for the pc players. I feel that DA2's only purpose was to set the stage for the rest of the DA universe


I'm not sure if the 'majority' of console players necessarily agree, as I have no way to judge that, but DA2 was definitely more console-friendly. Admittedly, I didn't like the faster-than-real-time combat, the butcher's job on the look and style of the darkspawn, elves, etc. from DAO, or the automatic 'this is junk' tag...kinda dropped the feeling of "Ooh, okay...strange new thing that can't be equipped. Read the description. Okay, that's junk. But this one...not sure...might come in handy later, perhaps I'd better keep it".

The change moved it straight to "a) Junk or B) Quest / Fedex item". Much less interesting.

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree there are improvements and, for better or worse, this is where the franchise has been moving to. I'm just personally annoyed that DA2 seemed to accidentally break a lot of things whilst fixing what didn't actually need fixing, IMO.

Note of potential bias: I play both DAO and DA2 on a PC. ;)

#119
jcp234

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Teredan wrote...

yfullman wrote...

I believe DA2 was designed to focus on the console market, and seeing as how the ps3 and 360 markets combined vastly outnumber the pc's it is a very intelligent decision. I can understand the anger some of the louder pc gamers show though. Improving a game for consoles shouldn't mean ostracizing the pc fanbase, but calling DA2 the worse game you have ever played is ludicrous. The majority of console players, myself included, agree that many of the changes made were genuine improvements, like the closer to real-time combat, the altered graphics that make DA look like its own game and not just another lord of the rings ripoff, and automatically putting useless loot into the trash to later be sold.

However, DA2 has many obvious and glaring flaws. I would have found the revisited environments more bearable if they were larger, and changed as the years went by. I feel as if the Sacred ashes quest alone had a much larger area than the entire game of DA2. And When I first heard that DA2 would span an entire decade I was very excited, but the execution was less than impressive. Kirkwall's color changes slightly with each act but that's bout it. Now the whole "spanning a decade" thing just seemed like a hook to get people interested.

And of having a decade to build relationships was very intriguing, until once you finished the game you realize in over 7 years you spoken to each companion maybe 6 times, Your companions still look basically the same, and as far as I know, unlike how you could influence the personalities of some of your team in origins, aside from the final battle, everyone on your team has had no change of heart due to your influence. Anders will go through with his terrorism no matter what, Isabella is still a ****, Merrill is still a dumb malificar who gets the keeper killed, etc.

The addition of a voiced main character can be taken either way. I feel dialogue was handled better here than in mass effect, given that how you acted in the beginning of the game actually influenced how your character would act in cutscenes and whether you had certain dialogue options or not. I certainly had more of a connection to Hawke than I did to my warden but I don't feel that DOA suffered because you character lacked a voice. I notice that in games that lack a voiced protagonist, the rest of the cast has to work much harder, and this is where DAO outshines DA2.

I LOVED every single companion in DAO. In no other game have I felt such a connection to every single character.Even one who I disagreed with, I still cared for them. While in DA2 I love Varric, Aveline, Bethany, and Isabella, but I really couldn't care less for the others. Maybe for the story's sake the other companions were made to be more polarizing but still...

The addition of a family was also interesting to me but I feel it fell flat on ocassion. Given that I saw carver killed about 24 minutes after I learned his name I realized I really didn't care. I would have had a seperate origin for the mage & warrior/rogue hawke.Like the warrior origin would start with hawke fleeing ostagar with carver and maybe throw in a wynne cameo idk, and for the mage have hawke and bethany actually work with the templar captain in lothering to repel darkspawn scouts idk so they could build some connection wit the brother of sister who would soon be killed.

Ultimately, I feel that DA2 is an ambitious, excellent, but flawed game. Many of the promised features felt half done, and the game felt like it was rushed. I applaud Bioware for finally doing a game without the same formula they've been doing for years. Insert protagonist who is the member of a select order of warriors, give prophetic dreams, que plot twist, roll credits. So of the things done are improvements, but others are serious issues, especially for the pc players. I feel that DA2's only purpose was to set the stage for the rest of the DA universe

8/10 console

6/10 pc


I'm sorry but that notion seems so incomprehensable to me, bad games are bad games no matter the platform.
Console gamer can enjoy sophisticated experiences too. There is know reasoning to dumb something down for console gamers that's just a lazy trope.
I mean come one, consoles got Heavy Rain and recently L.A. Noire games that you can call anything but shallow.
The only difference that should be rightfully made between consoles and PC is menu navigation and control schemes, never the content.


I have to agree with this. I play games on both PS3 and PC (my 360 RROD-ed), but I'm mostly a console player. I played Mass Effect on the Xbox 360. I played Origins and Mass Effect 2 on my PC. I played DA2 on my PS3. DA2 is just an all around lackluster game. Poor storytelling, unsatisfying plot, silly ending, uninteresting characters...well, I can go on for quite some time. Dragon Age 2 really is a slap in the face...I can't wait until my new PC arrives. I'm anxious to play the Witcher 2 and Skyrim when it releases 11.11.11.

I plan to eventually play Mass Effect 1 and 2 again before 3 releases next year...but I'm hoping Bioware really pushes the bar. DA2 has diminished my anticipation for Mass Effect 3, but I still have faith.

#120
Aesieru

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I would say when a game is designed first for a console and not intended to be ported (at least for a while) it is not diminished in any capacity.

My 360 I've been playing (PS3 no longer responds [Hate to the Sony-fanboys]) and the PC and I'd say that console games are perfect on their own and the controller is great to use... when it's designed for that.

This isn't an issue of bad port good port... this is an issue of BAD GAME.

#121
Teredan

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Shirosaki17 wrote...

Teredan wrote...
I'm sorry but that notion seems so incomprehensable to me, bad games are bad games no matter the platform.
Console gamer can enjoy sophisticated experiences too. There is know reasoning to dumb something down for console gamers that's just a lazy trope.
I mean come one, consoles got Heavy Rain and recently L.A. Noire games that you can call anything but shallow.
The only difference that should be rightfully made between consoles and PC is menu navigation and control schemes, never the content.

Could have something to do with the consoles being older hardware and the pressure to create shiny new games with awesome graphics means you have to cut other features in other areas. Also the controllers may cause some limitations, but the sad fact is they appear to limit and cut features when putting a game a on consoles.


But that's a misconception of the industry, also this http://www.escapistm...s-vs-Aesthetics

Modifié par Teredan, 30 mai 2011 - 11:09 .


#122
FiachSidhe

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Teredan wrote...

yfullman wrote...

I believe DA2 was designed to focus on the console market, and seeing as how the ps3 and 360 markets combined vastly outnumber the pc's it is a very intelligent decision. I can understand the anger some of the louder pc gamers show though. Improving a game for consoles shouldn't mean ostracizing the pc fanbase, but calling DA2 the worse game you have ever played is ludicrous. The majority of console players, myself included, agree that many of the changes made were genuine improvements, like the closer to real-time combat, the altered graphics that make DA look like its own game and not just another lord of the rings ripoff, and automatically putting useless loot into the trash to later be sold.

However, DA2 has many obvious and glaring flaws. I would have found the revisited environments more bearable if they were larger, and changed as the years went by. I feel as if the Sacred ashes quest alone had a much larger area than the entire game of DA2. And When I first heard that DA2 would span an entire decade I was very excited, but the execution was less than impressive. Kirkwall's color changes slightly with each act but that's bout it. Now the whole "spanning a decade" thing just seemed like a hook to get people interested.

And of having a decade to build relationships was very intriguing, until once you finished the game you realize in over 7 years you spoken to each companion maybe 6 times, Your companions still look basically the same, and as far as I know, unlike how you could influence the personalities of some of your team in origins, aside from the final battle, everyone on your team has had no change of heart due to your influence. Anders will go through with his terrorism no matter what, Isabella is still a ****, Merrill is still a dumb malificar who gets the keeper killed, etc.

The addition of a voiced main character can be taken either way. I feel dialogue was handled better here than in mass effect, given that how you acted in the beginning of the game actually influenced how your character would act in cutscenes and whether you had certain dialogue options or not. I certainly had more of a connection to Hawke than I did to my warden but I don't feel that DOA suffered because you character lacked a voice. I notice that in games that lack a voiced protagonist, the rest of the cast has to work much harder, and this is where DAO outshines DA2.

I LOVED every single companion in DAO. In no other game have I felt such a connection to every single character.Even one who I disagreed with, I still cared for them. While in DA2 I love Varric, Aveline, Bethany, and Isabella, but I really couldn't care less for the others. Maybe for the story's sake the other companions were made to be more polarizing but still...

The addition of a family was also interesting to me but I feel it fell flat on ocassion. Given that I saw carver killed about 24 minutes after I learned his name I realized I really didn't care. I would have had a seperate origin for the mage & warrior/rogue hawke.Like the warrior origin would start with hawke fleeing ostagar with carver and maybe throw in a wynne cameo idk, and for the mage have hawke and bethany actually work with the templar captain in lothering to repel darkspawn scouts idk so they could build some connection wit the brother of sister who would soon be killed.

Ultimately, I feel that DA2 is an ambitious, excellent, but flawed game. Many of the promised features felt half done, and the game felt like it was rushed. I applaud Bioware for finally doing a game without the same formula they've been doing for years. Insert protagonist who is the member of a select order of warriors, give prophetic dreams, que plot twist, roll credits. So of the things done are improvements, but others are serious issues, especially for the pc players. I feel that DA2's only purpose was to set the stage for the rest of the DA universe

8/10 console

6/10 pc


I'm sorry but that notion seems so incomprehensable to me, bad games are bad games no matter the platform.
Console gamer can enjoy sophisticated experiences too. There is know reasoning to dumb something down for console gamers that's just a lazy trope.
I mean come one, consoles got Heavy Rain and recently L.A. Noire games that you can call anything but shallow.
The only difference that should be rightfully made between consoles and PC is menu navigation and control schemes, never the content.


Didn't you know games are smarter when they're on a PC. When a game is ported to PC, it get's smarter. When it gets ported to consoles it gets dumber. If you make combat less complicated, it's dumb. The more convoluted the game play, the smarter the person is, who chooses to play (slog through) it.

I love Zero Punctuation's review of the Witcher. It pretty much nails PC elitists for being far too full of themselves over something as stupid as a video game. Which also relates directly to much of the hate over DA2.
www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/22-The-Witcher

About 50 seconds in.
"If disliking this sort of ****, makes me stupid, then call me Retard McSmackypants, but I'd rather be stupid and having fun, than being bored out of my huge genius mind"

#123
Zeevico

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Stanley Woo wrote...

I am curious as to just why these reviews are the "must see," while others are not. Or is this another case of assuming we only listen to or read positive reviews?

Yes. In fairness, you changed the entire game from top to bottom. It wasn't a bad game to begin with. Many people liked it a lot. And you ("Bioware") changed it. To them the changes are for drastic. They're not necessarily improvements. Ergo Bioware ruined RPG games forever. Like the Mohicans, DAO was the last of the RPGs. Viola. See? Magic.

One upset fanbase please-- and make it a big one! (Just kidding--if this fanbase were big you wouldn't have tried to make the game more welcoming.)

Anyway, I'm done with platitudes and generalities. Best of luck in all future endeavours. I hope your games are great and that many people enjoy them. Me? I guess I'll wait for the RPGCodex review. I don't like the scornful attitude sometimes expressed there--frankly I don't like that I sometimes have the same attitude about what is, after all, a game, but their gaming tastes are similar to mine.

#124
Shirosaki17

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Teredan wrote...
But that's a misconception of the industry, also this http://www.escapistm...s-vs-Aesthetics

Yeah I don't know. I was just speculating, but it appears to matter more to people whether a game looks graphically good, equal to or better than the last game that just came out than whether the game is actually good. People might see a graphically inferior game and not even give it a chance based solely on that. Doesn't matter whether the game is good or not.

#125
Teredan

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FiachSidhe wrote...

Didn't you know games are smarter when they're on a PC. When a game is ported to PC, it get's smarter. When it gets ported to consoles it gets dumber. If you make combat less complicated, it's dumb. The more convoluted the game play, the smarter the person is, who chooses to play (slog through) it.

I love Zero Punctuation's review of the Witcher. It pretty much nails PC elitists for being far too full of themselves over something as stupid as a video game. Which also relates directly to much of the hate over DA2.
www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/22-The-Witcher

About 50 seconds in.
"If disliking this sort of ****, makes me stupid, then call me Retard McSmackypants, but I'd rather be stupid and having fun, than being bored out of my huge genius mind"


I agree I like zero punctuation too, but my advice to quote him to support any kind of argument that you might have is a poor move. zero punctuation rants(or rather hyperboling the bad points) about every game no matter how good it is but in a very entertaining way in my opinion.

I mean just look at his DA2 review :D http://www.escapistm...8-Dragon-Age-II .