Found him meh. His incessant emo b*tching and whinging about mages and slavery while he sits on his ass for 7 years and does nothing productive is irritating. Plus, I don't like the whole Anime beautiful boy with the monster sword look.
That said, I utilized him alot, because from a gameplay/mechanics perspective, because the Tevinter Fugitive tree is pretty evil and lethal, especially when the rest of your party use ranged attacks and are well out of his way. And he's damned good at killing. Fenris does make fighting annoying wave after wave alot quicker and less tedious.
Who hated Fenris
Débuté par
themonty72
, mai 29 2011 02:53
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#227
Posté 11 août 2011 - 02:34
Sealy
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Ineffable Igor wrote...
Nauks wrote...
Yer indeed, who DIDN'T hate him is indeed the better question
He's like Jacob from ME2 in that way.
Um. *Raises hand, looks at 1721 page Fenris thread* You guys with me on this one?
In other news:
"Sneaking into the Hawke estate....Heavy risk. But the priiiize..."
"What's your intention, Fenris?"
Yeah, I know, it's not even funny anymore. *Snerk*
With you. Was going to resond but then I was all, whatever, trolls will troll, plus the reading of the thread was making me pissy enough to start some character bashing of my own and I would like to think I am better then that, so I had to escape, leave and go sit shivering in the Fenris thread wondering when all the haters apparently went blind as well. Now my brain is quoting the Arishok and I need to leave again.
"whiney ****" *grumble, grumble* How people pick him out of the entire team of whiners as the worst is beyond me.
#228
Posté 11 août 2011 - 02:55
Neminea
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I don't know if people mentioned this before, since reading through 10 pages of posts is a bit much. I tried, I did!
In any case, the way I see it Fenris and Anders are used as the voices for the "two sides". One being the mages plight and the other the templars.
In my first play-through Fenris annoyed me because I had allready decided to go with the mages plight (basically picking Anders' side) before I even ran into him. After a while some of the things Fenris said about the mages made sense as well though, which made me doubt if I was doing the right thing by aiding them, specially after the kazzilionth runaway mage resorted to blood magic and attacked me (seriously at some point my reaction to this was an out loud yell "can't you people go without blood magic for 5 ffing seconds?!") The way I see it, that is what both characters are supposed to do, make you question your choices in the game.
They are both extreme in their beliefs, and completely opposite. For people who tend to go with the mages, and don't really see the validity of the templars, Fenris would be down-right annoying. It's like having someone from any major religion at an atheist convention, or the other way around. But so would Anders if you are on the templars side.
Though at first I was inclined to believe whatever Anders said about the mages (he was my favorite in Awakening, so I figured he'd have the right idea about it + the mages don't seem all that terrible in origin) I now am more inclined to be neutral in the whole thing. If it were up to irl me, I'd probably be more like Varric or Isabela, meaning I would rather not pick a side at all. Both sides seem to be both wrong and right, and non of their solutions seem to be the ultimate answer.
I am still more inclined towards Anders then Fenris, though I think the fact that I loved both Justice and Anders in Awakening has something to do with that, but I can't rightly say I hate Fenris for being an oppinionated **** and not Anders. The way I see it, Anders and Fenris are more alike personality wise then they (and me) would care to admit. Both are broody, opinionated, angry over past slights like they happened 5 minutes ago etc etc etc.
So no, I don't hate Fenris.
What I hate is that I have to have him and Anders in the same party since I hate Aveline and therefor use Fenris as my tank and Anders as my healer if I am not playing a tanky or healy build myself.
In any case, the way I see it Fenris and Anders are used as the voices for the "two sides". One being the mages plight and the other the templars.
In my first play-through Fenris annoyed me because I had allready decided to go with the mages plight (basically picking Anders' side) before I even ran into him. After a while some of the things Fenris said about the mages made sense as well though, which made me doubt if I was doing the right thing by aiding them, specially after the kazzilionth runaway mage resorted to blood magic and attacked me (seriously at some point my reaction to this was an out loud yell "can't you people go without blood magic for 5 ffing seconds?!") The way I see it, that is what both characters are supposed to do, make you question your choices in the game.
They are both extreme in their beliefs, and completely opposite. For people who tend to go with the mages, and don't really see the validity of the templars, Fenris would be down-right annoying. It's like having someone from any major religion at an atheist convention, or the other way around. But so would Anders if you are on the templars side.
Though at first I was inclined to believe whatever Anders said about the mages (he was my favorite in Awakening, so I figured he'd have the right idea about it + the mages don't seem all that terrible in origin) I now am more inclined to be neutral in the whole thing. If it were up to irl me, I'd probably be more like Varric or Isabela, meaning I would rather not pick a side at all. Both sides seem to be both wrong and right, and non of their solutions seem to be the ultimate answer.
I am still more inclined towards Anders then Fenris, though I think the fact that I loved both Justice and Anders in Awakening has something to do with that, but I can't rightly say I hate Fenris for being an oppinionated **** and not Anders. The way I see it, Anders and Fenris are more alike personality wise then they (and me) would care to admit. Both are broody, opinionated, angry over past slights like they happened 5 minutes ago etc etc etc.
So no, I don't hate Fenris.
What I hate is that I have to have him and Anders in the same party since I hate Aveline and therefor use Fenris as my tank and Anders as my healer if I am not playing a tanky or healy build myself.
#229
Posté 11 août 2011 - 03:38
Dhiro
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I don't care for him. Before playing I thought I'd hate him, but in the end I didn't. I don't like him either, I just... :|
#230
Posté 11 août 2011 - 03:18
Neminea
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First of all, I wish to give some credit where it is due. I spend a lot of hours reading the discussion on this topic, and I like how in debt and intelligent it is. It also made me ponder on certain things, and I would like to give my 2 cents worth mostly about the use of psychology in analysing the character Fenris. As a psycho-diagnostic, I have studied psychology, and it has been a while since I actually opened my books to look things up, but here I am, doing it for a fictional character in a video game. What is the world coming to huh?
I see a lot of assumptions being made that I do not feel are completely explained.
#1 Modern day psychology can be applies to a fictional character
I am not so sure about this. I would think a good writer would have at least a basic understanding of the human psyche (by study or experience) but to actually apply psychology to a character that is basically someone's imagination is a big leap for me. Characters in fiction do not necessarily have to make sense psychology wise, heck I know plenty of irl people that don't make much sense
#2 I can quote this and that theory on psychology, so that is true
I think this speaks for itself. Psychology is not an exact science, and everything we know or think to know about it is based on theory. They are the best explanations we have, but if psychological theories were the definitive answer to the human psyche then psychological disorders or mental instability wouldn't exist any more. We can use different theories to explain human behaviour to a degree, but using some and dismissing others is a bit outdated in my (humble) opinion. Saying we can explain human behaviour completely is, by lack of a better word, arrogant.
#3 Elves have the same psychological make-up as humans
They probably do, because they were created by human imagination, but if we're going to use irl theories to explain fictional characters then I think this is something to keep in mind. Fenris is not a human, ergo he doesn't necessary react to things in a way a human would.
So basically what I am saying is that I don't think characters in fiction can be fully explained by psychology, in fact I don't think people irl can be fully, or even partially explained by psychology alone. The thing that got me interested in this conversation is his memory loss and how that would effect his mental state. I don't know of a case where people actually lost such a big part of their memory at a young age, so I would like to get in on this even though I just tried to explain why we shouldn't try to use psychology to begin with. What can I say, you people peeked my interest
Some assumptions about the memory loss
#1 His age on when he got the markings
From what I gather, it is assumed that Fenris was older (12+) when he got his markings, but I am yet to find when he actually got them. They say he competed for them, but the way I see it, he could have been very young when he did so. Zevran started his training at age seven and if you want a slave with mystical powers thanks to a rare and probably expensive ritual, wouldn't you want him to be as young as possible so you can properly mold him? And if he got the markings at such a young age, would he have really missed much? I can't really remember much of my early childhood, would it be great loss if I couldn't remember anything?
Let's say he was older though, let's say he was 20 when he got his markings just for the sake of argument.
#2 The level of memory loss
Memory is a funny thing, most our skills and knowledge are so integrated into our psyche that most of us can't really remember why or when we were taught those things. Can you honestly say you remember every reading or writing lesson? Yet I assume we can all read and write, why else would we be on a forum? I know a lot of things, but I can't possibly remember when I was first taught most of it, unless they are more recently learned skills/knowledge. Now to bring this back on Fenris.
In conversation with his sister, he seems to remember playing with her and her calling him by his old name Leto. That tells me that even though he has severe memory loss on a conscious level, the information is not completely gone and is still there subconsciously.
He also competed for the right to get those marking. As far as I know they never actually tell you what this competition was about, but basic warrior training might have been a part of it. If your going to wipe the memories of a 20 year old slave, I think you would want to make sure that you wouldn't have to teach him to eat with a fork and not pee in his bed after that. If he had been extremely young, then that would be more plausible, though I can't imagine Denarius being the loving fatherly type, so even at a young age they would probably prefer it if the slave kept his basic knowledge on social etiquette (else he might forget that slaves are you know, supposed to obey) and his skills (both basic and the more complex things, like sword fighting for example).
I think it's evident in the game that whatever memories were lost to him in the process, they aren't burned out of his brain. They are still there.
#3 Only memories that you can consciously remember make up your psyche
Wrong on so many levels. People with animal phobias because of a traumatic experience in their youth often times cannot remember the incident that caused the phobia unless they are under hypnoses. In fact a lot of trauma victims can't really remember what happened to them but still show signs of the trauma. On a more basic scale, I can't remember anything from before I was 3 (as do most people) yet Freud and others after him think it is one of the most important periods in a persons life when it comes to basic psychological make-up in later life.
4# The amount of years one has experienced is the most important aspect of psychological development. Now I am not sure if I read this right but what I got from it is: Fenris only had about 10 years, so has the psychological make-up of a teenager.
I think this is wrong for two reasons.
So here is my two cents worth, bit of a long post isn't it?
I see a lot of assumptions being made that I do not feel are completely explained.
#1 Modern day psychology can be applies to a fictional character
I am not so sure about this. I would think a good writer would have at least a basic understanding of the human psyche (by study or experience) but to actually apply psychology to a character that is basically someone's imagination is a big leap for me. Characters in fiction do not necessarily have to make sense psychology wise, heck I know plenty of irl people that don't make much sense
#2 I can quote this and that theory on psychology, so that is true
I think this speaks for itself. Psychology is not an exact science, and everything we know or think to know about it is based on theory. They are the best explanations we have, but if psychological theories were the definitive answer to the human psyche then psychological disorders or mental instability wouldn't exist any more. We can use different theories to explain human behaviour to a degree, but using some and dismissing others is a bit outdated in my (humble) opinion. Saying we can explain human behaviour completely is, by lack of a better word, arrogant.
#3 Elves have the same psychological make-up as humans
They probably do, because they were created by human imagination, but if we're going to use irl theories to explain fictional characters then I think this is something to keep in mind. Fenris is not a human, ergo he doesn't necessary react to things in a way a human would.
So basically what I am saying is that I don't think characters in fiction can be fully explained by psychology, in fact I don't think people irl can be fully, or even partially explained by psychology alone. The thing that got me interested in this conversation is his memory loss and how that would effect his mental state. I don't know of a case where people actually lost such a big part of their memory at a young age, so I would like to get in on this even though I just tried to explain why we shouldn't try to use psychology to begin with. What can I say, you people peeked my interest
Some assumptions about the memory loss
#1 His age on when he got the markings
From what I gather, it is assumed that Fenris was older (12+) when he got his markings, but I am yet to find when he actually got them. They say he competed for them, but the way I see it, he could have been very young when he did so. Zevran started his training at age seven and if you want a slave with mystical powers thanks to a rare and probably expensive ritual, wouldn't you want him to be as young as possible so you can properly mold him? And if he got the markings at such a young age, would he have really missed much? I can't really remember much of my early childhood, would it be great loss if I couldn't remember anything?
Let's say he was older though, let's say he was 20 when he got his markings just for the sake of argument.
#2 The level of memory loss
Memory is a funny thing, most our skills and knowledge are so integrated into our psyche that most of us can't really remember why or when we were taught those things. Can you honestly say you remember every reading or writing lesson? Yet I assume we can all read and write, why else would we be on a forum? I know a lot of things, but I can't possibly remember when I was first taught most of it, unless they are more recently learned skills/knowledge. Now to bring this back on Fenris.
In conversation with his sister, he seems to remember playing with her and her calling him by his old name Leto. That tells me that even though he has severe memory loss on a conscious level, the information is not completely gone and is still there subconsciously.
He also competed for the right to get those marking. As far as I know they never actually tell you what this competition was about, but basic warrior training might have been a part of it. If your going to wipe the memories of a 20 year old slave, I think you would want to make sure that you wouldn't have to teach him to eat with a fork and not pee in his bed after that. If he had been extremely young, then that would be more plausible, though I can't imagine Denarius being the loving fatherly type, so even at a young age they would probably prefer it if the slave kept his basic knowledge on social etiquette (else he might forget that slaves are you know, supposed to obey) and his skills (both basic and the more complex things, like sword fighting for example).
I think it's evident in the game that whatever memories were lost to him in the process, they aren't burned out of his brain. They are still there.
#3 Only memories that you can consciously remember make up your psyche
Wrong on so many levels. People with animal phobias because of a traumatic experience in their youth often times cannot remember the incident that caused the phobia unless they are under hypnoses. In fact a lot of trauma victims can't really remember what happened to them but still show signs of the trauma. On a more basic scale, I can't remember anything from before I was 3 (as do most people) yet Freud and others after him think it is one of the most important periods in a persons life when it comes to basic psychological make-up in later life.
4# The amount of years one has experienced is the most important aspect of psychological development. Now I am not sure if I read this right but what I got from it is: Fenris only had about 10 years, so has the psychological make-up of a teenager.
I think this is wrong for two reasons.
Adult behaviour is not just based on what has been taught, it is also based on hormones and your brain. Teenagers partly act the way they do because their brain isn't done developing yet. Assuming that Fenris is older than 21, and elven brains develop at the same rate as the average human, his behaviour cannot be dismissed as being a “teenage thing”. His body isn't ravaged by the hormones and he doesn't have the “handicap” of a brain that isn't done growing yet. He is an adult, with the body and brain of an adult. Whatever opinions or assumptions he has/makes can't be dismissed because he is “just a teen”. In fact even if he was that is no basis to dismiss him. Wisdom often comes from the mouth of babes is not a common saying because it sounds pretty. You can dismiss him based on the assumption that he is ignorant (which is a discussion I am not getting into), but you can't assume he is ignorant because he would supposedly have the mindset of a teenager.
Children and teens who went through a life of hardship or often described as being more mature then other children their age. In order to “survive” they had to develop certain adult behaviour and mindsets faster. I think we can all agree Fenris had a hard life, and even if he had the mind-set of a teen, it would at least be a more mature teenager then average.
So here is my two cents worth, bit of a long post isn't it?
#231
Posté 13 août 2011 - 03:22
Carmen_Willow
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I started out thinking him too emo, but over time he grew on me. I like the way he sticks to his convictions (even when I don't agree with them). And I like the way he amends them when he acquires new data that modifies his hypothesis. I like that he's smart and he thinks. I realized that he is one of the few characters in the game who ever so slightly changes his opinion based upon what he learns. He is my only LI in DA 2 now. No one else seems quite suitable. And I lilked the way that I had to really get to know him to truly appreciate him. Great writing!
#232
Posté 14 août 2011 - 10:37
Arquen
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Thank you naminea for that. My earlier posts reflected a lot of that but from a more philosophical level than psychological. Since that is my thing, lol.
As far as applying psychology theory to fictional characters: I think it should be more of a guideline to connect certain theories not truths. They can still be used as proofs but you are right in that not everyone or every character fits into certain psychological niches. Now to completely throw out psychological theory saying it cannot apply to fictional characters is wrong because when a character is created the author has a mindset, personality, experiences etc. That any thinking being or human would have. We can't base characters on anything fantastic because we are all humans so no matter how you create something it is still rooted to the human mind. Now physiology wise sure elves could be different, but that isn't explicitly stated so we have to fall back on human guidelines for that as well based on behaviorism and observation.
As far as applying psychology theory to fictional characters: I think it should be more of a guideline to connect certain theories not truths. They can still be used as proofs but you are right in that not everyone or every character fits into certain psychological niches. Now to completely throw out psychological theory saying it cannot apply to fictional characters is wrong because when a character is created the author has a mindset, personality, experiences etc. That any thinking being or human would have. We can't base characters on anything fantastic because we are all humans so no matter how you create something it is still rooted to the human mind. Now physiology wise sure elves could be different, but that isn't explicitly stated so we have to fall back on human guidelines for that as well based on behaviorism and observation.
#233
Posté 14 août 2011 - 11:26
Neminea
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True the psychology isn't neccesarily usable part is mostly me wondering if other sentient beings (in this case elves) could be as "easily" observed with modern day psychology in mind as humans.
#234
Posté 26 août 2011 - 07:27
Jestina
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Worst character ever...well it's at the top of the list anyways.
#235
Posté 26 août 2011 - 03:04
BBK4114
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I don't really care about him other than his game-play mechanics. He's good to have along in a fight. I did romance him in one play through, just for the achievement but I found it to be a total chore. One play through I didn't get him to enough friendship/rivalry for him to agree to side with the mages. It was the 1st time I've ever killed a companion and it was incredibly fulfilling! I don't like his smarmy "I'm too sexy for my shirt" voice, I would of much preferred Taliesen's voice. btw, I just played DAO again, and the templar at the entrance to Lothering is Fenris' voice, LOL! I didn't like it if you slept with him and then did the "it's not you it's me" response and move on to someone else he starts sleeping with...Isabella? Weird.
#236
Posté 26 août 2011 - 05:24
Sealy
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BBK4114 wrote...
I don't really care about him other than his game-play mechanics. He's good to have along in a fight. I did romance him in one play through, just for the achievement but I found it to be a total chore. One play through I didn't get him to enough friendship/rivalry for him to agree to side with the mages. It was the 1st time I've ever killed a companion and it was incredibly fulfilling! I don't like his smarmy "I'm too sexy for my shirt" voice, I would of much preferred Taliesen's voice. btw, I just played DAO again, and the templar at the entrance to Lothering is Fenris' voice, LOL! I didn't like it if you slept with him and then did the "it's not you it's me" response and move on to someone else he starts sleeping with...Isabella? Weird.
Whoa whoa whoa, do not go after the voice, thats just crazy talk. I will hit you with my sign that says "Don't".
Romancing him is hard, he isn't Isabela, Anders or Merrill for certain where one flirt and you have yourself a lapful of sexy pirate, sorta creepy apostate and adorable bloodmage. He is the only romance you actually have to work at. Well I mean sleeping with Isabela is easy, actually romancing her, not as easy. Anders and Merrill though... it is insane how easy it is to romance them, it's actually harder to get out of a romance path. If your nice enough they ninja romance you. Though my Merrill is glitched I think and actually rivals me everytime I say something diplomatic to her. I always found that it was what made romancing him more real, he doesn't love you off the bat, he likes you, respects you, and challenges you. And if you sleep with someone else he sadly moves on because he is not down with that.
Isabela/Fenris is my fave pairing outside of Fenris/Hawke. They both are not interested in commitment, obviously if he is with Isabela he doesn't have the memory problem, Isabela wants sex and Fenris would like to start having it. It's all a perfect relationship.
Modifié par Fleshdress, 26 août 2011 - 05:25 .
#237
Posté 26 août 2011 - 06:53
The Baconer
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I just barely took him to the Gallows in my new playthrough and just now noticed what he says in the conversation: "Freedom is a noble ideal, but I see no oppression here".
Yes, this is coming from the mouth of a former slave. So in my eyes he's gone from a tragic hypocrite to a complete joke. The only thing stopping me from handing him over to Danarius now is the fact that he synergizes really well with my team, so I'd rather not release him from service just yet :>.
Yes, this is coming from the mouth of a former slave. So in my eyes he's gone from a tragic hypocrite to a complete joke. The only thing stopping me from handing him over to Danarius now is the fact that he synergizes really well with my team, so I'd rather not release him from service just yet :>.
#238
Posté 26 août 2011 - 07:09
Sealy
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He believes mage doesn't equel slave and to some it does. To me it doesn't but even if I were pro freedom (I am pro circle but yah, the kirkwall chantry definitely needs some reform.), and what he said wasn't my opinion I don't think he deserves to be returned to slavery. You/you're Hawke think the mages are being opressed, but the moment his opinion differs from yours you're totes okay with giving him back to a life that personal opinons aside truly is slavery. Umm, pot calling the kettle black much.
#239
Posté 26 août 2011 - 07:38
The Baconer
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You/you're Hawke think the mages are being opressed, but the moment his opinion differs from yours you're totes okay with giving him back to a life that personal opinons aside truly is slavery. Umm, pot calling the kettle black much.
That's the point. If he, someone who's supposed to be ferverantly outspoken against slavery, thinks freedom is just an ideal, why should he be surprised or angry if I decide to prove him right?
Modifié par The Baconer, 26 août 2011 - 07:38 .
#240
Posté 26 août 2011 - 08:10
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The Baconer wrote...
You/you're Hawke think the mages are being opressed, but the moment his opinion differs from yours you're totes okay with giving him back to a life that personal opinons aside truly is slavery. Umm, pot calling the kettle black much.
That's the point. If he, someone who's supposed to be ferverantly outspoken against slavery, thinks freedom is just an ideal, why should he be surprised or angry if I decide to prove him right?
He isn't fervently outspoken against slavery. In fact he'll even let you keep Orana after a trifle of bickering. He wants freedom for himself. And yes he'll approve if you help stop slavers, but he doesn't believe mages are safe. All he knows are cruel and demonic mages who use whatever they please and kill who they wish because they are property. He doesn't believe mages can be trusted and with good reason. Merrill and Anders only confirm his ideals. Mages who have good intentions and are to weak to succeed without losing themselves. What I am surprised at is that you believe freedom is more then an ideal, yet because he isn't a mage, and doesn't like mages then he should be thrown under the bus. Your opinion shadows Anders, Mages deserve freedomm completely and anyone who believes maged need to be monitered are enemies that deserve slavery. You either support freedom as a whole, freedom of speech, freedom of action, or you are exactly like Fenris, you support freedom for the people you think deserve it and the rest of the people be damned.
#241
Posté 26 août 2011 - 08:29
Jestina
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Maybe it's because he acts like some whiny emo kid. And his extreme anti-magic ranting...which is a pain in the behind since they give you several mage companions. I wish they gave you a more neutral warrior to have in your party...or that I could at least turn Aveline into a 2H warrior.
#242
Posté 26 août 2011 - 08:47
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Fleshdress wrote...
He isn't fervently outspoken against slavery.
You're right. He's only ferverantly against it when he decides it's to go off on one of his rants.
In fact he'll even let you keep Orana after a trifle of bickering.
Only because he can't do anything about it if Hawke's made his decision, and he knows.
All he knows are cruel and demonic mages who use whatever they please and kill who they wish because they are property. He doesn't believe mages can be trusted and with good reason. Merrill and Anders only confirm his ideals.
I'm not inclined to believe he'd be any different if he were a mage. We already for sure know he'd take that power if it were possible, AND that he's already killed or screwed-over plenty of his own fellow slaves to have those lyrium brands.
What I am surprised at is that you believe freedom is more then an ideal, yet because he isn't a mage, and doesn't like mages then he should be thrown under the bus.
No, I actually never said anything of the sort. I'd give him back to Danarius because I find his hypocrisy both laughable and tiresome. Mages have nothing to do with it. He could have made the same comment about any other oppressed group of people and my thoughts would be the same.
No.Your opinion shadows Anders, Mages deserve freedomm completely and anyone who believes maged need to be monitered are enemies that deserve slavery. You either support freedom as a whole, freedom of speech, freedom of action, or you are exactly like Fenris, you support freedom for the people you think deserve it and the rest of the people be damned.
Modifié par The Baconer, 26 août 2011 - 08:47 .
#243
Posté 26 août 2011 - 09:17
Neminea
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Quote from le dictionary:
oppression [əˈprɛʃən]
n
1. the act of subjugating by cruelty, force, etc. or the state of being subjugated in this way
2. the condition of being afflicted or tormented
3. the condition of having something lying heavily on one's mind, imagination, etc.
He saw no opression there. Being a circle mage, even in Kirkwall, still does not come close to being an actual slave. Fenris was litterally used as furniture as a slave, wasn't even allowed to read or have dreams for himself. Compared to that, the circle must seem like a walk in the park to him.
oppression [əˈprɛʃən]
n
1. the act of subjugating by cruelty, force, etc. or the state of being subjugated in this way
2. the condition of being afflicted or tormented
3. the condition of having something lying heavily on one's mind, imagination, etc.
He saw no opression there. Being a circle mage, even in Kirkwall, still does not come close to being an actual slave. Fenris was litterally used as furniture as a slave, wasn't even allowed to read or have dreams for himself. Compared to that, the circle must seem like a walk in the park to him.
#244
Posté 26 août 2011 - 09:32
BBK4114
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Fleshdress wrote...
BBK4114 wrote...
I don't really care about him other than his game-play mechanics. He's good to have along in a fight. I did romance him in one play through, just for the achievement but I found it to be a total chore. One play through I didn't get him to enough friendship/rivalry for him to agree to side with the mages. It was the 1st time I've ever killed a companion and it was incredibly fulfilling! I don't like his smarmy "I'm too sexy for my shirt" voice, I would of much preferred Taliesen's voice. btw, I just played DAO again, and the templar at the entrance to Lothering is Fenris' voice, LOL! I didn't like it if you slept with him and then did the "it's not you it's me" response and move on to someone else he starts sleeping with...Isabella? Weird.
Whoa whoa whoa, do not go after the voice, thats just crazy talk. I will hit you with my sign that says "Don't".
Romancing him is hard, he isn't Isabela, Anders or Merrill for certain where one flirt and you have yourself a lapful of sexy pirate, sorta creepy apostate and adorable bloodmage. He is the only romance you actually have to work at. Well I mean sleeping with Isabela is easy, actually romancing her, not as easy. Anders and Merrill though... it is insane how easy it is to romance them, it's actually harder to get out of a romance path. If your nice enough they ninja romance you. Though my Merrill is glitched I think and actually rivals me everytime I say something diplomatic to her. I always found that it was what made romancing him more real, he doesn't love you off the bat, he likes you, respects you, and challenges you. And if you sleep with someone else he sadly moves on because he is not down with that.
Isabela/Fenris is my fave pairing outside of Fenris/Hawke. They both are not interested in commitment, obviously if he is with Isabela he doesn't have the memory problem, Isabela wants sex and Fenris would like to start having it. It's all a perfect relationship.
Hehe, I know a bunch of people love his voice, but...
I didn't find romancing him hard, just tiresome because he's such a one-trick pony, (not that Anders isn't, but hey!, the Anders kiss is the single greatest kiss in gaming evarrrr. LOL)
The thing about Isabella...I just thought it was strange because my Hawke would've been perfectly down with just having sex, he is the one who wasn't but apparently Isabella was better at it and memories be damned, he wants more of that!
#245
Posté 26 août 2011 - 09:49
The Baconer
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Neminea wrote...
Quote from le dictionary:
oppression [əˈprɛʃən]
n
1. the act of subjugating by cruelty, force, etc. or the state of being subjugated in this way
2. the condition of being afflicted or tormented
3. the condition of having something lying heavily on one's mind, imagination, etc.
He saw no opression there. Being a circle mage, even in Kirkwall, still does not come close to being an actual slave. Fenris was litterally used as furniture as a slave, wasn't even allowed to read or have dreams for himself. Compared to that, the circle must seem like a walk in the park to him.
The way he personally organizes levels of oppression is of no concern to me. I'm only saying if he is of the opinion that freedom is just an ideal, maybe he shouldn't spend his time pouting about whatever injustices the magisters pay unto their livestock. At the very least he should come out and admit that he thinks it's only wrong when non-mages are abused. I'd respect him for being consistent.
#246
Posté 26 août 2011 - 10:00
Wulfram
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I like Fenris in his banters with the party members other than Merrill and Anders. But his conversations with Hawke are too one note, and he's a jerk to Merrill.
#247
Posté 26 août 2011 - 10:27
Neminea
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He says: "Freedom is a noble ideal, but I see no opression here. I see fear, and danger"
He doesnt say "just a noble ideal" he says it is a good thing, but in his opinion it doesn't apply to this situation because he sees no opression to be freed from to begin with.
Wether you agree with his opinion on if there is or isn't any opression in the circle, you can hardly call him a hypocrit for that imho.
He doesnt say "just a noble ideal" he says it is a good thing, but in his opinion it doesn't apply to this situation because he sees no opression to be freed from to begin with.
Wether you agree with his opinion on if there is or isn't any opression in the circle, you can hardly call him a hypocrit for that imho.
#248
Posté 26 août 2011 - 10:35
The Baconer
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Wether you agree with his opinion on if there is or isn't any opression in the circle, you can hardly call him a hypocrit for that imho.
I can, and it's possible to make him acknowledge it in Act 3, so I see no problem with labeling him as such.
#249
Posté 26 août 2011 - 10:37
Carmen_Willow
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[quote]Fleshdress wrote...
[quote]BBK4114 wrote...
{snip}
. He is the only romance you actually have to work at. {snip}[/quote]
You know what they say, "you get what you pay for.":innocent:
[quote]BBK4114 wrote...
{snip}
. He is the only romance you actually have to work at. {snip}[/quote]
You know what they say, "you get what you pay for.":innocent:
#250
Posté 26 août 2011 - 10:41
Neminea
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Dictionary attack:
hyp·o·crite (hp-krt)
n.
A person given to hypocrisy.
and
hypocrite [ˈhɪpəkrɪt]
n
a person who pretends to be what he is not
[from Old French ipocrite, via Late Latin, from Greek hupokritēs one who plays a part, from hupokrinein to feign, from krinein to judge]
hypocritical adj
hypocritically adv
and
hy·poc·ri·sy (h-pkr-s)
n. pl. hy·poc·ri·sies
1. The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.
2. An act or instance of such falseness.
How does him not changing make him a hypocrite, from what the dictionary tells me that makes him the opposite really.
hyp·o·crite (hp-krt)
n.
A person given to hypocrisy.
and
hypocrite [ˈhɪpəkrɪt]
n
a person who pretends to be what he is not
[from Old French ipocrite, via Late Latin, from Greek hupokritēs one who plays a part, from hupokrinein to feign, from krinein to judge]
hypocritical adj
hypocritically adv
and
hy·poc·ri·sy (h-pkr-s)
n. pl. hy·poc·ri·sies
1. The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.
2. An act or instance of such falseness.
How does him not changing make him a hypocrite, from what the dictionary tells me that makes him the opposite really.
