Questa discussione ha avuto 422 risposte

[Nameless2345]

Quinnzel wrote...
Strangely, both him and JAnders were my least liked companions, no matter which side I went with.

Same here. They really are the sides of the same coin. 

[Darkly Tranquil]

I found Fenris to be an utter dropkick. He emo'ed about his hard life all the time and disapproved of everything I did. The most satisfying moment of the game for me was killing him during "The Last Straw". Prat!

Anders was not much better. Frankly, I could have done without either of them.

[Sealy]

Fff, why keep him if you don't like him, why sell him to Danarius or kill him when he stands up for his opinions, why not just take the trillion opportunities handed to you to send him on his less then merry way? He is almost the only charcter that you can get rid of still everyone is so trigger happy about selling a living being into slavery or killing someone because he what? Whines? Doesn't agree with Hawke? Even when I kill Anders it isn't because I hate his character or because he annoys me, it's because that specific Hawke is has a no no button as far as blowing up buildings go. *is frusterated*

[Heidenreich]

Fleshdress wrote...

Fff, why keep him if you don't like him, why sell him to Danarius or kill him when he stands up for his opinions, why not just take the trillion opportunities handed to you to send him on his less then merry way? He is almost the only charcter that you can get rid of still everyone is so trigger happy about selling a living being into slavery or killing someone because he what? Whines? Doesn't agree with Hawke? Even when I kill Anders it isn't because I hate his character or because he annoys me, it's because that specific Hawke is has a no no button as far as blowing up buildings go. *is frusterated*

*pats Flesh* 

Best not to try and think to much on it. The whole "Fenris is Optional" thing doesn't seem to be something that people can grasp. It's like how Sten and Leliana and Zevran were all optional, but there are still people who go "OMG I HATE THEM (even though I had their friendships maxed!!!!!111oneone) AND THIS X REASON IS WHYYY"

[esper]

Fleshdress wrote...

Fff, why keep him if you don't like him, why sell him to Danarius or kill him when he stands up for his opinions, why not just take the trillion opportunities handed to you to send him on his less then merry way? He is almost the only charcter that you can get rid of still everyone is so trigger happy about selling a living being into slavery or killing someone because he what? Whines? Doesn't agree with Hawke? Even when I kill Anders it isn't because I hate his character or because he annoys me, it's because that specific Hawke is has a no no button as far as blowing up buildings go. *is frusterated*

I personally hate killing companions, because they are the most fleshed out and thus the most like 'real' persons. I don't understand the trigger happiness many have for killing characters just because they dislike them.
I dislike Isabella, but I only handed her over once and that was because my Hawke was a bit of a douchebag and a really petty and cowardice person who just wanted to avoid a fight. 

[berelinde]

The problem with the "optional" characters is that they aren't. Sure, you don't have to recruit Fenris, but then you're stuck without a 2H warrior for 2/3 of the game. You don't have to recruit Isabela, but then you're out a dual-wielder for the entire game (they should have made Sebastian a dual-wielder instead. Princes can be duelists!). You can tell Anders to take a hike after Dissent, but then you've got no healer for half of the game. Etc. In Origins, there was a lot more flexibility. If you wanted Leliana to die in a fire be lost along with Lothering, you could give Zevran points in archery. If you wanted to tell Oghren to take a hike, you had Sten. The ability to put points anywhere on the class talent trees enabled you to avoid recruiting anybody but Alistair and Morrigan. In DA2, if you don't recruit somebody, you're kind of SOL.

Modificata da berelinde, 06 settembre 2011 - 05:45 .

[esper]

But you don't really need a two-hander, healer or dualist - even on nightmare. You will just have to make a tactic that work with not having said person.

[Lestatman]

esper wrote...

Fleshdress wrote...

Fff, why keep him if you don't like him, why sell him to Danarius or kill him when he stands up for his opinions, why not just take the trillion opportunities handed to you to send him on his less then merry way? He is almost the only charcter that you can get rid of still everyone is so trigger happy about selling a living being into slavery or killing someone because he what? Whines? Doesn't agree with Hawke? Even when I kill Anders it isn't because I hate his character or because he annoys me, it's because that specific Hawke is has a no no button as far as blowing up buildings go. *is frusterated*

I personally hate killing companions, because they are the most fleshed out and thus the most like 'real' persons. I don't understand the trigger happiness many have for killing characters just because they dislike them.
I dislike Isabella, but I only handed her over once and that was because my Hawke was a bit of a douchebag and a really petty and cowardice person who just wanted to avoid a fight. 

Wouldn't say I'm personally happy killing them but it's usually a good plot device if you don't want to see them again in any future series(yes I am aware of the Leliana syndrome, coming back to life), but usually the death of a character means they don't return.   For me their only characters in a game not RL so I still keep a sense of detachment to them just like as if I'm writing the story myself.  If Bioware gave me another plot device that means the character I don't like won't return then I'd rather do that than killing them.

Modificata da Lestatman, 06 settembre 2011 - 05:51 .

[esper]

Lestatman wrote...

esper wrote...

Fleshdress wrote...

Fff, why keep him if you don't like him, why sell him to Danarius or kill him when he stands up for his opinions, why not just take the trillion opportunities handed to you to send him on his less then merry way? He is almost the only charcter that you can get rid of still everyone is so trigger happy about selling a living being into slavery or killing someone because he what? Whines? Doesn't agree with Hawke? Even when I kill Anders it isn't because I hate his character or because he annoys me, it's because that specific Hawke is has a no no button as far as blowing up buildings go. *is frusterated*

I personally hate killing companions, because they are the most fleshed out and thus the most like 'real' persons. I don't understand the trigger happiness many have for killing characters just because they dislike them.
I dislike Isabella, but I only handed her over once and that was because my Hawke was a bit of a douchebag and a really petty and cowardice person who just wanted to avoid a fight. 

Wouldn't say I'm personally happy killing them but it's usually a good plot device if you don't want to see them again in any future series(yes I am aware of the Leliana syndrome, coming back to life), but usually the death of a character means they don't return.   For me their only characters in a game not RL so I still keep a sense of detachment to them just like as if I'm writing the story myself.  If Bioware gave me another plot device that means the character I don't like won't return they I'd rather do that than killing them.

Fair enough, but some people act so gleefull about it that it actually scares me.
We still don't know what Leliana will mean for those who kill her. I personally hoped that a killed Leliana will prove to be more dangerous than a non-killed one, but we will see. It is not like I never kill a character, I purposely didn't do Fenris final question belief in that same playthrough as the one where I handed Isabella over because I wanted him to betray my Hawke for a story reason, but I certainly don't feel good about killing him. It just fitted with the story I was making for that specific Hawke to have him turn against her.

[Sealy]

berelinde wrote...

The problem with the "optional" characters is that they aren't. Sure, you don't have to recruit Fenris, but then you're stuck without a 2H warrior for 2/3 of the game. You don't have to recruit Isabela, but then you're out a dual-wielder for the entire game (they should have made Sebastian a dual-wielder instead. Princes can be duelists!). You can tell Anders to take a hike after Dissent, but then you've got no healer for half of the game. Etc. In Origins, there was a lot more flexibility. If you wanted Leliana to die in a fire be lost along with Lothering, you could give Zevran points in archery. If you wanted to tell Oghren to take a hike, you had Sten. The ability to put points anywhere on the class talent trees enabled you to avoid recruiting anybody but Alistair and Morrigan. In DA2, if you don't recruit somebody, you're kind of SOL.

That only counts with some DA2 chracters, you can send Fenris packing as late as act three. If your going to sell him or kill him before last battle why keep him till then? The then you are down a two handed warrior doesn't really fly if you hand him over to the other team just so you can kill him. Then you are down a warrior and they are up one. I mean with the other yah, if you want them you are sorta stuck with them but the game gives you many opportunities to send Fenris away, there is absolutly no excuse outside of cruelty/revenge to gut him or sell him. Unless Fen is your too low point rival/buddy and he turns on you like some people come across in their first playthrough before you know how to make a character your rival/friend. Then I understand, but to recruit him with the intention of killing/selling him. Just not on. 

[berelinde]

Fleshdress wrote...
Unless Fen is your too low point rival/buddy and he turns on you like some people come across in their first playthrough before you know how to make a character your rival/friend. Then I understand, but to recruit him with the intention of killing/selling him. Just not on. 

I'm not sure that I stated my opinion clearly enough, since everybody who quoted my post seems to have misunderstood.

I am not advocating selling Fenris, sending Anders packing after Dissent, or turning Isabela over to the Qunari. I have never done any of those things with any Hawke.

I am saying that it would have been nice to have had the ability to customize other followers to assume their roles if the player opted not to recruit them in the first place. I am saying that the NPCs are designed in such a way that failing to recruit a companion has the potential to reduce the effectiveness of your team. Yes, it is quite possible to make do without a 2H warrior/healer/duelist, but at that point, you are finding a work-around, not an ideal configuration. Also, Hawke himself can take the role of any individual companion, pretty much, so unless you kick everyone out, you won't be completely bereft of fighters/mages/rogues.

I've been a big advocate of dismissable companions since the first time I played Baldur's Gate. It isn't because I hate companions or want to hurt them. I appreciate the idea of giving the player control over who joins his team.

To me, the concept of unique companion skill sets and optional companions are mutually exclusive. Obviously, BioWare disagreed, but I am not sure the game is better for it.

[berelinde]

Gah. Double post.

Modificata da berelinde, 06 settembre 2011 - 07:26 .

[Sealy]

Oh I didn't mean to imply you thought selling or killing is a-ok. I was mostly responding to the implication that if you recruit them you're stuck with them. Debris you can keep as buff till the very last act and then just send him off. That's all. I too wish you could better manage their talants. Sorry I am posting from a phone.

[Nameless2345]

He is almost the only charcter that you can get rid of still everyone is so trigger happy about selling a living being into slavery or killing someone because he what? Whines?
….
If your going to sell him or kill him before last battle why keep him till then?
...
Then I understand, but to recruit him with the intention of killing/selling him. Just not on.

At least to me, this question seems meaningless. There are two possible points of views on the story: out-of-universe and in-universe.
From the in-universe point of view (essentially Hawke’s eyes), he or she of course doesn’t recruit Fenris with the intention of selling or killing him. However H. has decent reason to kill Fenris in Act III, since the guy, umm, tries to kill H.? And extremely pro-mage H. has little reasons to yet again risk his live and lives of his friends to defend Fenris, who seems likely to join Meredith in a coming confrontation. Protecting one’s enemy is noble, but I wouldn’t call it a moral obligation. Not to mention that H. who romanced Fenris in the act II can feel herself scorned…
From the out-of-universe point of view (essentially player’s eyes), the only point of view which allows “recruit him with the intention of killing”, Fenris is not a “living being”. Less so than a rat. Fenris is a bunch of text and pixels. No action towards such entity can be considered unethical. There are plenty of good reasons for a player to recruit Fenris knowing the likely outcome, among them: role-playing (essentially using in-universe point of view primarily), belief that betrayal (from H. or Fenris) adds spice to the story, belief that mage H. and Fenris should logically come to blows and that “power of friendship/love” is garbage. Petty vindictiveness against a character is also a valid reason, though I wouldn’t call it a good one since character in video game isn’t a living being and as such can’t be harmed.

[Wompoo]

berelinde wrote...

The problem with the "optional" characters is that they aren't. Sure, you don't have to recruit Fenris, but then you're stuck without a 2H warrior for 2/3 of the game. You don't have to recruit Isabela, but then you're out a dual-wielder for the entire game (they should have made Sebastian a dual-wielder instead. Princes can be duelists!). You can tell Anders to take a hike after Dissent, but then you've got no healer for half of the game. Etc. In Origins, there was a lot more flexibility. If you wanted Leliana to die in a fire be lost along with Lothering, you could give Zevran points in archery. If you wanted to tell Oghren to take a hike, you had Sten. The ability to put points anywhere on the class talent trees enabled you to avoid recruiting anybody but Alistair and Morrigan. In DA2, if you don't recruit somebody, you're kind of SOL.

Actually you could tell Morrigan to hit the road as well. The only character you had to keep was Alister. Fenris is a major pain in the backside (if real life I would punch his neon lights out... anger management, inhale). However, I dislike killing companions off and cutting content... so I keep Mr hunched over glow stick around for the feel good moment of having him come back to the fold for the final battle, no other reason.

Modificata da Wompoo, 07 settembre 2011 - 02:29 .

[Ryzaki]

I loved telling Morrigan to GTFO before i reached Lothering and then to GTFO again when she came to Redcliff for the DR.

Only thing was it was odd that she'd still speak at Lothering even though she was gone. O_O

[Heidenreich]

For you angry Fenris haters who hate fenris because you can't friend or rival him because you keep getting oposite points.... In my signature is a guide on how to rival Fenris to 50% before even getting out of Act 1.

All you have to do - is be pro-mage and drag him to stuff where you're being pro-mage.

[Carmen_Willow]

esper wrote...

But you don't really need a two-hander, healer or dualist - even on nightmare. You will just have to make a tactic that work with not having said person.

Yeah but think of all the experience points you lose if you don't recruit everyone.

[Heidenreich]

Carmen_Willow wrote...

esper wrote...

But you don't really need a two-hander, healer or dualist - even on nightmare. You will just have to make a tactic that work with not having said person.

Yeah but think of all the experience points you lose if you don't recruit everyone.

You still get the experience for completing the quest, even if you don't recruit him in the end. Problem solved.

[UltiPup]

Heidenreich wrote...

Carmen_Willow wrote...

esper wrote...

But you don't really need a two-hander, healer or dualist - even on nightmare. You will just have to make a tactic that work with not having said person.

Yeah but think of all the experience points you lose if you don't recruit everyone.

You still get the experience for completing the quest, even if you don't recruit him in the end. Problem solved.

You lose EXP from their personal quests though. There is really no reason to not recruit someone.

[Heidenreich]

UltiPup wrote...

Heidenreich wrote...

Carmen_Willow wrote...

esper wrote...

But you don't really need a two-hander, healer or dualist - even on nightmare. You will just have to make a tactic that work with not having said person.

Yeah but think of all the experience points you lose if you don't recruit everyone.

You still get the experience for completing the quest, even if you don't recruit him in the end. Problem solved.

You lose EXP from their personal quests though. There is really no reason to not recruit someone.

If you utterly dislike a character, then that's perfect reason not to recruit them, thus the point of the discussion.

[berelinde]

Utterly disliking a character is one reason not to recruit a character, but there are others. You may be an avid role-player who really gets into the characters they create. I've forgotten how many times I've heard people say "That Warden wouldn't let a known assassin live," even if that person liked Zevran, on the whole.

But yeah, since this is the "Who hated Fenris?" thread, people are probably not discussing party management from a role-playing perspective.

[Arcane_Solona]

In all honestly, I hated him in my first playthough. He REALLY pissed me off with all his disapproval points (yes, I was pro-mage back then). I could just NEVER please him, and for some reason, I found myself trying so hard to do so. But nope, nothing I did pleased him. Now, 2 playthroughs later, my Hawke is in an intense friendship-romance with him, is completely mad about him, and would do anything to make him happy (yes, that includes slaughtering mages and sending them off to the circle against their will, all the while risking the wrath of Anders/Justice.
Personality wise, the guy is top notch, the highest quality I have ever come across in an RPG. His depth, emotion, passion, angst... everything about him is real and believable. I love how dark and broody he is (I'm that kinda gal) and his intensity makes my bones feel like jelly. And that VOICE, Maker, that VOICE! It literally ooooooozes sex! Wowza! Imagine being held in bed by those lyrium-tattooed arms, having him whisper into your ears in the dead of night, telling you how "nothing could be worse than the thought of living without you". *Meltttssssss*
Simply put, I love him.

Modificata da Arcane_Solona, 11 settembre 2011 - 12:23 .