Fenris - he don't really have a personality to hate him for. If we take away his hatred for mages and his emoness, nothing remanis...
Who hated Fenris
Débuté par
themonty72
, mai 29 2011 02:53
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#177
Posté 04 juillet 2011 - 01:09
Arquen
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Except an elven slave from Tevinter who has lyrium burned into his skin, has "carved his path to freedom in blood," and also has a need for vengeance against his former master. *facepalm again*
#178
Posté 04 juillet 2011 - 06:57
sleepyowlet
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I did. Recruited him and spent the rest of the game regretting it. Honestly, it's so very obvious that he was tailored to fit the tastes of Anime fangirls. Huge eyes, pointy chin, emo haircut, emo personality, frail body, deep voice. I don't really know how to describe my feelings about him, though "eeew" summs it up quite well.
The first time I ever saw him, I was like, "How did you escape from Final Fantasy, and what the *hell* are you doing in my Dragon Age???"
The first time I ever saw him, I was like, "How did you escape from Final Fantasy, and what the *hell* are you doing in my Dragon Age???"
#179
Posté 05 juillet 2011 - 07:33
Arquen
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So far these responses only seem to further prove my point. *sigh*
I think I prefer obsessive speculation to baseless stereotypical hate.
I think I prefer obsessive speculation to baseless stereotypical hate.
#180
Posté 05 juillet 2011 - 01:48
sleepyowlet
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Arquen wrote...
So far these responses only seem to further prove my point. *sigh*
I think I prefer obsessive speculation to baseless stereotypical hate.
Ah, so you'd like me to go into detail? Right. I don't like him for several reasons, one being the Anime thing. Another is that he's just this giant woobie (tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWoobie), and worse, a terrible accumulation of clichés.
Cliché number one: The ex-slave. Valen Shadowbreath pulled that one off with aplomb, Fenris is just pathetic in his constant whining.
Cliché number two: The bada**. Puh-lease. I might be tempted to believe it, but his whining really doesn't make that possible. It just makes him an Iron-Woobie.
Cliché number three: The pretty boy. Uhg.
Cliché number four: The snarky one. Nothing wrong with that, just... hurling insults at the one who saved your scrawny ass doesn't really indicate that you're a smart person. You don't need a formal education to realize that - pure, simple common sense is enough. Fenris doesn't seem to have it.
Cliché number five: The unending hate/venegance thing. I'm kinda tired of that. I mean, this is like a rape-victim screaming that all men must die (if the perpetrator was male). I've met my share of rape-victims, and one of my friends was trapped for years in a relationship that came pretty close to slavery (drugs were involved, and her scars aren't pretty). None of them hold views even close to that (in fact, when asked if rape should result in a death-sentence, they were against that. Vehemently). It shouldn't take much of a brain-wrecking thought process to come to the conclusion that "male" and "rapist" don't necessarily need to be connected, just as much as "mage" and "slaver". Fenris seems unable to make that distinction (at least not without Hawke pushing his nose into it. But my mage Hawke just shrugged and thought, "Why bother?").
Would you like me to continue? I could. There is also the Disfigured! The Amnesiac! and the NoliMeTangere! etc... And while none of these things are terrible on their own and might make interesting additions to a character, in accumulation they are catastrophic and result in a Victim!Sue/Stu.
#181
Posté 05 juillet 2011 - 02:55
ReallyRue
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Just seeing as this seems to be the appropriate thread for it, I always find it amusing when Fenris is likened to a JRPG (particularly Final Fantasy) character. Especially in appearance. I mean sure, he does, but then so do a bunch of the other characters and it never bothered me. I always thought Morrigan looked like she'd sailed right out of FF, especially when combined with that "I'm going to be consistently rude to you and rather waspish, but for some reason you'll want me to stick around for the whole game" aspect of her personality.
Fenris is hardly the only character to have JRPG in his veins.
Fenris is hardly the only character to have JRPG in his veins.
#182
Posté 05 juillet 2011 - 02:56
Arquen
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See that is better, and I appreciate that. It's funny though because some of the reasons you hate him are the very reasons I love him.
I don't see the "woobie" in him at all. Mostly because I also don't see "whining" from him. Plus he rejects all pity and attempts to comfort. I mean, a woobie is built to give hugs and love on and they love it. Fenris hates it. Plus I don't think he is built so you feel sorry for him or even want to hugs on him. He is abrasive, not easy or quick to build trust, and you have to work at his relationship. Something people are so not willing to do and I'm not sure why. I love that about him. By the end of the game he is more a tragic hero to me because the decisions he made about his hate, vengeance, actions led him to where he is, and he realizes it isn't something he wants to do for the rest of his life.
Speaking of the never-ending hate/vengeance.. I love that! Despite your personal experiences or whatnot I too have had experience with tragedy/etc. and have seen hate turn people into something they no longer recognize. I have also seen vengeance. So perhaps personal backstory affects judgement in that where you see "this couldn't happen because look at my friend..." I see "I completely understand this because I've seen it before!"
I don't see Fenris so much as a screaming, raging victim either. I think at one point he just wanted to stop running. I see him as a legitimate plotter along the lines of the count of monte cristo. He could not "live with a wolf at his back," and that is when the obsession for vengeance really took hold. Someone who has been through so much and been so betrayed by one individual that the hate of that individual and the situations they put him through just eat away at him until the hate and need for vengeance are all that is left.
Also, it is because Fenris has been hunted for years. He is still trying to escape his captors and feels like he forever will have to. Whether you pity him or not he could care less. He wants Hawke to help him achieve a goal. He is up front with this need, and if you don't help him then he could care less about you because obviously you are out for yourself. According to Fenris everyone is out for themselves, and so it takes a LOT for him to see Hawke as someone who is generally trustworthy and wants to help for the sake of this thing called "friendship."
I am so way to tired to be writing these things, btw.. worked 5 12 hour shifts straight >.<
Basically, what you call "cliche" I don't see as cliche at all, but the layers of a carefully crafted character. Plus, I simply don't agree with the "whining" thing, and I don't feel like Fenris acts like a constant victim. In fact, I don't feel like he plays a victim at all. Hence, I also don't see the Sue/Stu.
The pretty boy thing, anime thing, the whole "ive seen this done before 1000 times" is just putting on blinders before even getting to know the character. It's easy to spout cliche and slap on stereotypes and bias especially when you do a once over on someone and go "yep.. seen this before!" Because your already set up to be disappointed and automatically start pointing out every cliche you can match up with you can't see the uniqueness in the character.
Also, "Tropes are devices and conventions that a writer can reasonably rely on as being present in the audience members' minds and expectations. On the whole, tropes are not clichés.The word clichéd means "stereotyped and trite." In other words, dull and uninteresting. We are not looking for dull and uninteresting entries. We are here to recognize tropes and play with them, not to make fun of them."
So careful when using tropes to prove your walking cliche point.
I don't see the "woobie" in him at all. Mostly because I also don't see "whining" from him. Plus he rejects all pity and attempts to comfort. I mean, a woobie is built to give hugs and love on and they love it. Fenris hates it. Plus I don't think he is built so you feel sorry for him or even want to hugs on him. He is abrasive, not easy or quick to build trust, and you have to work at his relationship. Something people are so not willing to do and I'm not sure why. I love that about him. By the end of the game he is more a tragic hero to me because the decisions he made about his hate, vengeance, actions led him to where he is, and he realizes it isn't something he wants to do for the rest of his life.
Speaking of the never-ending hate/vengeance.. I love that! Despite your personal experiences or whatnot I too have had experience with tragedy/etc. and have seen hate turn people into something they no longer recognize. I have also seen vengeance. So perhaps personal backstory affects judgement in that where you see "this couldn't happen because look at my friend..." I see "I completely understand this because I've seen it before!"
I don't see Fenris so much as a screaming, raging victim either. I think at one point he just wanted to stop running. I see him as a legitimate plotter along the lines of the count of monte cristo. He could not "live with a wolf at his back," and that is when the obsession for vengeance really took hold. Someone who has been through so much and been so betrayed by one individual that the hate of that individual and the situations they put him through just eat away at him until the hate and need for vengeance are all that is left.
Also, it is because Fenris has been hunted for years. He is still trying to escape his captors and feels like he forever will have to. Whether you pity him or not he could care less. He wants Hawke to help him achieve a goal. He is up front with this need, and if you don't help him then he could care less about you because obviously you are out for yourself. According to Fenris everyone is out for themselves, and so it takes a LOT for him to see Hawke as someone who is generally trustworthy and wants to help for the sake of this thing called "friendship."
I am so way to tired to be writing these things, btw.. worked 5 12 hour shifts straight >.<
Basically, what you call "cliche" I don't see as cliche at all, but the layers of a carefully crafted character. Plus, I simply don't agree with the "whining" thing, and I don't feel like Fenris acts like a constant victim. In fact, I don't feel like he plays a victim at all. Hence, I also don't see the Sue/Stu.
The pretty boy thing, anime thing, the whole "ive seen this done before 1000 times" is just putting on blinders before even getting to know the character. It's easy to spout cliche and slap on stereotypes and bias especially when you do a once over on someone and go "yep.. seen this before!" Because your already set up to be disappointed and automatically start pointing out every cliche you can match up with you can't see the uniqueness in the character.
Also, "Tropes are devices and conventions that a writer can reasonably rely on as being present in the audience members' minds and expectations. On the whole, tropes are not clichés.The word clichéd means "stereotyped and trite." In other words, dull and uninteresting. We are not looking for dull and uninteresting entries. We are here to recognize tropes and play with them, not to make fun of them."
So careful when using tropes to prove your walking cliche point.
Modifié par Arquen, 05 juillet 2011 - 03:14 .
#183
Posté 05 juillet 2011 - 04:19
sleepyowlet
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All fine and good, but he still rubs me the wrong way - both as player of the game, and as role-playing Hawke (as much as that's possible, which isn't much). With the whining he's actually a lot like Alistair - only worse. Both are always "I, I, I, me, me, me." Alistair doesn't care one whit about the fact that Cousland has seen their whole family slaughtered a few weeks ago, Fenris doesn't care one whit about Hawke's feelings. So why would I, role-playing my character, care about him? I wanted my Hawke to snap at him, like, "Suffering isn't your
prerogative, none of us has had a rosy past. So grow a pair and get over
it, or at least, shut the f*** up."
I, personally, don't think his character is all that well-written. Adding all the things I named is a cheap trick to make a character seem more interesting and developed, when in reality it isn't (a character who is mostly sane with an intact family and not so much to agonize about is much harder to write). Sure, Fenris "bears it like a man"(that's why I called him an Iron-Woobie), but that doesn't change the fact that I'm rolling my eyes going "Victim!Sue". The label doesn't have anything to do with how he's reacting, it's about the construction of his character traits and his past. I've seen a lot of very similar characters in fanfiction.
But maybe my feelings result from his implementation in the game itself - since the role-playing aspect has been severely reduced, there simply wasn't time to properly show what he's about. Or maybe the first impression was very unfavourable - because he got on my nerves from day one (he and Isabela are the characters I wanted to kick out of my party. Permanently.). I could only make myself play the game once, and I went as a mage!Hawke. When he started insulting my character as soon as we came out of the mansion, I really wanted to say, "Okay, if that's how you feel... been nice meeting you. Don't bother talking to me again." Sure, I could spend the rest of the game trying to convince him that, yes, I'm a mage, but no, I'm not evil - but why would I? I didn't care. The game, the writing, failed to make me care about that character (and not only him). I consider that bad writing.
When it came to the big battle, I sided with the mages (of course), and since I had neither maxed out his friendship or rivalry bar, I expected him to turn on me. He didn't (a bug, I suppose) - and that is the only reason he survived.
But that is all just my opinion - just as liking Fenris is yours. There is no fact when interpreting/criticizing literature (which is, essentially, what we are doing), and everybody is entitled to their opinion.
As for the tropes vs. clichés thing - a trope becomes a cliché when overused or badly implemented. Fenris is suffering from both.
@ ReallyRue: And yes, I did notice Morrigan's Anime-ness, and no, I'm not too fond of her either.
prerogative, none of us has had a rosy past. So grow a pair and get over
it, or at least, shut the f*** up."
I, personally, don't think his character is all that well-written. Adding all the things I named is a cheap trick to make a character seem more interesting and developed, when in reality it isn't (a character who is mostly sane with an intact family and not so much to agonize about is much harder to write). Sure, Fenris "bears it like a man"(that's why I called him an Iron-Woobie), but that doesn't change the fact that I'm rolling my eyes going "Victim!Sue". The label doesn't have anything to do with how he's reacting, it's about the construction of his character traits and his past. I've seen a lot of very similar characters in fanfiction.
But maybe my feelings result from his implementation in the game itself - since the role-playing aspect has been severely reduced, there simply wasn't time to properly show what he's about. Or maybe the first impression was very unfavourable - because he got on my nerves from day one (he and Isabela are the characters I wanted to kick out of my party. Permanently.). I could only make myself play the game once, and I went as a mage!Hawke. When he started insulting my character as soon as we came out of the mansion, I really wanted to say, "Okay, if that's how you feel... been nice meeting you. Don't bother talking to me again." Sure, I could spend the rest of the game trying to convince him that, yes, I'm a mage, but no, I'm not evil - but why would I? I didn't care. The game, the writing, failed to make me care about that character (and not only him). I consider that bad writing.
When it came to the big battle, I sided with the mages (of course), and since I had neither maxed out his friendship or rivalry bar, I expected him to turn on me. He didn't (a bug, I suppose) - and that is the only reason he survived.
But that is all just my opinion - just as liking Fenris is yours. There is no fact when interpreting/criticizing literature (which is, essentially, what we are doing), and everybody is entitled to their opinion.
As for the tropes vs. clichés thing - a trope becomes a cliché when overused or badly implemented. Fenris is suffering from both.
@ ReallyRue: And yes, I did notice Morrigan's Anime-ness, and no, I'm not too fond of her either.
Modifié par sleepyowlet, 05 juillet 2011 - 04:27 .
#184
Posté 07 juillet 2011 - 11:23
Sshodan
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For all my love of elves and peaty boys I did end up severely disliking Fenris in the end, for one simple reason - hatred is what defines him. It is not easy to struggle against something without being swallowed up by hate, but it is essential if you actually want to make things better... Wait, what am I talking about? Fenris does not want to make anything better, he just hates and wallows in self peaty.
He was a slave to Daneruius, but now he is a slave to his own destructive hatred - a rabid dog that will bite anyone who approaches regardless of intentions.
I almost always play with a mage character and it seams that treating Fenris respectfully and helping him with all and every personal issue he has only results in him turning on me in the end, I don't know if it is by design or just the error in wring, but it seams that to make him stay you need to crack a whip at him - other ways the friendship /revelry points are going to cancel out each other. And as I sad earlier, I gues can't find it in my self to like a character that needs to be intimidated in to submission or he betrays you,.
He was a slave to Daneruius, but now he is a slave to his own destructive hatred - a rabid dog that will bite anyone who approaches regardless of intentions.
I almost always play with a mage character and it seams that treating Fenris respectfully and helping him with all and every personal issue he has only results in him turning on me in the end, I don't know if it is by design or just the error in wring, but it seams that to make him stay you need to crack a whip at him - other ways the friendship /revelry points are going to cancel out each other. And as I sad earlier, I gues can't find it in my self to like a character that needs to be intimidated in to submission or he betrays you,.
Modifié par Sshodan, 07 juillet 2011 - 11:49 .
#185
Posté 07 juillet 2011 - 11:55
Wereparrot
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I dislike Fenris. I respect his knowledge and sometimes his opinions coincide with my own, but not often, and my Hawke always clashes with him on the issue of mages and magic. I appreciate what he says on his first visit to The Gallows concerning the magical presence within the party and the need for discretion, but the rest of the time he shows no sensitivity towards the fact the either Hawke is a mage or his sister is/was. It is ridiculous when, after Fenris has insulted Hawke or any either mage in the party when you come out of Danarius' estate and Hawke has told him off for it that Fenris flirts with Hawke, and even more so that Hawke is given the opportunity to respond favourably. His need for vengeance is tiresome: I wish he would chill out and go after Danarius in the name of justice rather than vengeance.
I actually like dragging him along just to watch his rivalry status soar, but he is also useful as the only two-hander in the group. This said, his betrayal and ultimate death at the end is inevitable, and I don't even try to keep him on side, since by that point he has outstayed his welcome and outlived his usefulness.
I actually like dragging him along just to watch his rivalry status soar, but he is also useful as the only two-hander in the group. This said, his betrayal and ultimate death at the end is inevitable, and I don't even try to keep him on side, since by that point he has outstayed his welcome and outlived his usefulness.
#186
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 07:57
Nameless2345
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Intepretation of the character is supposed to have a basis. At least I assumed so.Arquen wrote...
I *facepalmed* at this. I listed reasons why I like fenris based on my interpretation of the character.
That's what I was talking about in a previous paragraph. Plotting? Are you refering to a single episode when Fenris lures a bunch of innocent and unrelated to his conflict people into a death trap? Monte Cristo plotted, yes. He built a power base, honed his knowledge (remember self-education discussion?) and fighting skills and moved against his enemies using elaborate schemes and relying mostly on himself. Fenris? He grabbed a mansion and just, uh, waited for someone to come after him. Relying mostly on H. even to face his sister/assault the mansion. Relying mostly on Aveline to preserve his mansion. Fenris is simialr to count Monte-Cristo? Oh, dear. Such comparison really should've been used by someone who actively dislikes Fenris, because it does him no favor.I see him as a legitimate plotter along the lines of the count of monte cristo.
Someone who has been through so much and been so betrayed by one individual
Who are you talking about here? Fenris? Until Act III he wasn't betrayed by anyone. Monte Cristo? IIRC he was betrayed by far more than one person.
.... And you call _this_ likeable/admirable? Even I wouldn't go that far describing Fenris.until the hate and need for vengeance are all that is left
Modifié par Nameless2345, 09 juillet 2011 - 06:48 .
#187
Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 08:04
Nightdragon8
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imo he is just jaded and rightly so. I mean
1) Slave
2) Had something done to him with magic
3) Doesn't like mages because his Master was a mage.
4) wants to kill his former masters and pupils
So really I completely understand where he is coming from.not really a "bad guy" just had a screwed up past and trust issues.
The only one i can say I "Hate" is Anders and thats because after 4 playthourghs he gets annoying.
1) Slave
2) Had something done to him with magic
3) Doesn't like mages because his Master was a mage.
4) wants to kill his former masters and pupils
So really I completely understand where he is coming from.not really a "bad guy" just had a screwed up past and trust issues.
The only one i can say I "Hate" is Anders and thats because after 4 playthourghs he gets annoying.
#188
Guest_jollyorigins_*
Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 08:14
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I *despise* Fenris with a passion, and I don't care about his f****d up past because he competed and wanted that. I hate him as much as....as much as....Anders ಠ__ಠ.
#189
Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 12:48
AstoundingArcaneArcher
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There wasn't a personality, there was only hate and a sexy voice, but I play FFXII for my Gideon Emery goodness.
#190
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 07:39
Warden Majere
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My first playthrough I hated him and only kept him around because he was useful and I loved seeing his rivalry goo up at a dramatic rate. Second time, I decided I wanted to get to know him so I romanced him and now he is one of my favorite companions. Right up there with Isabella.
#191
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 09:50
ladyofpayne
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I hate fenris because of his looks. Animeee boy made me to kill them all. I hate his anger, he just going me insane!
freya-thearistocrat.deviantart.com/art/Hawke-s-Revenge-216149333
He just need to be like in picture.
freya-thearistocrat.deviantart.com/art/Hawke-s-Revenge-216149333
He just need to be like in picture.
#192
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 01:05
CrimsonZephyr
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My only problem with Fenris was that the game goes out of its way to prove him right. How many times does one have to say "not all mages are like that!" only to have to slaughter a crowd of blood mages and have him pop up behind you with "MAGE R DUMB, LOL." Conversely, Anders, who is just as uncompromising, is always proven wrong. The Templars are never shown to be as one-dimensionally evil as he says they are; not as the mages are shown to be as one-dimensionally evil as Fenris claims they are.
I'd say Fenris was the Wesley of DA2.
I'd say Fenris was the Wesley of DA2.
#193
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 02:08
TheAwesomologist
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I don't "hate" Fenris but he certainly isn't one of my favorite characters. In fact he seems slightly tacked on, almost as if, like Sebastian, he was meant to be a DLC add-on or something. He has a moderately interesting background, but he's way too one dimensional unless you're into broody-anime-teenage-angsty-love.
Game play wise he's a fine companion. Maybe not as solid of a tank as Aveline but he has the best of 2H weapon abilities and a combination of all 3 Warrior specialties in his own tree. I've played with him a bunch on one of my mage play-throughs and he was fine as a companion in that regard. Story wise he's just too cliche for my taste (he's not the only one who suffers from this).
Funny part is, in Act 3 if you hand him over to Denarius, besides the initial objections by your companions (except Anders) no one mentions him again afterwards, unlike Isabella or your sibling who are referred to both by NPC's and your companions. No one really misses him when he's gone.
Game play wise he's a fine companion. Maybe not as solid of a tank as Aveline but he has the best of 2H weapon abilities and a combination of all 3 Warrior specialties in his own tree. I've played with him a bunch on one of my mage play-throughs and he was fine as a companion in that regard. Story wise he's just too cliche for my taste (he's not the only one who suffers from this).
Funny part is, in Act 3 if you hand him over to Denarius, besides the initial objections by your companions (except Anders) no one mentions him again afterwards, unlike Isabella or your sibling who are referred to both by NPC's and your companions. No one really misses him when he's gone.
#194
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 03:12
Faunwea
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He is actually my favorite companion in the game (and favorite romance interest) apart from Aveline, Varric, and Isabela. I am still getting to know Anders and Merril. I'm sure that I'll have no problem liking them just as much as well. I honestly had no difficulties 'bonding' with him throughout the game playing as female Mage Hawke and saving pretty much every mage I came across. I actually had to do research to gain rivalry with him when I decided to do a rivalry playthrough.
I feel it takes more understanding to see beyond his anger and that he is just starting to grapple with his identity as a free man (maybe even as a person) rather than as a piece of property. I mean, geez, he has no memories of his past, his family, or his life beyond serving some tevinter mage's every whim, undergoing painful experients and witnessing cruelty after cruelty.
Still, I think many people would have an easier time understanding Fenris' attitude if players had been shown the Tevinter Emporium through something other than the Codex and NPC's commentary. We are dropped some hints, but we are never actually shown the 'brutality' and 'corruption of the mages there.
TLDR Version: Fenris was actually my favorite character although he definately does have issues I honestly feel that there is a lot of good in his character. Besides, what character in this game apart from Aveline and Varric don't have some internal issues? To go even further, what real person in existance lives without psychological issues of their own, whether they be extreme or mild?
I feel it takes more understanding to see beyond his anger and that he is just starting to grapple with his identity as a free man (maybe even as a person) rather than as a piece of property. I mean, geez, he has no memories of his past, his family, or his life beyond serving some tevinter mage's every whim, undergoing painful experients and witnessing cruelty after cruelty.
Still, I think many people would have an easier time understanding Fenris' attitude if players had been shown the Tevinter Emporium through something other than the Codex and NPC's commentary. We are dropped some hints, but we are never actually shown the 'brutality' and 'corruption of the mages there.
TLDR Version: Fenris was actually my favorite character although he definately does have issues I honestly feel that there is a lot of good in his character. Besides, what character in this game apart from Aveline and Varric don't have some internal issues? To go even further, what real person in existance lives without psychological issues of their own, whether they be extreme or mild?
Modifié par Faunwea, 11 juillet 2011 - 03:16 .
#195
Guest_Rojahar_*
Posté 13 juillet 2011 - 12:39
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I love Fenris. He's one of my favorite Bioware characters ever. I love his blunt rudeness and sardonic critical humor. "Yes, lets murder a templar!" He knew how to keep it real. A better devil's advocate than Morrigan was, IMO.
Modifié par Rojahar, 13 juillet 2011 - 12:40 .
#196
Posté 15 juillet 2011 - 03:44
Masako52
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Fenris, looks like he's from a JRPG? Yes. AND I LOVE IT.
Though seriously, I do have to resent that Fenris's criticism is that he's a "pretty boy" and in a Western RPG. What, so Western men aren't allowed to be pretty boys? Not even when they're fantasy elves? That somehow makes them "not belong"?
Agreed with the above poster that Morrigan looked like she was from a Final Fantasy, too. I saw her and couldn't stop thinking of Lulu from Final Fantasy X. Holy crap, they're like identical twins!
But I actually like JRPGs, and as long as it's not exaggerated or completely out of place, don't see why it can't have influence in Western games.
I love Fenris. And not just because I like having gay sex with him. You don't often get badass warrior-class elves who are anti-magic. Don't understand people who think he doesn't have a personality, or only see him as "HATE MAGIC GRRR *rips out hearts*"... I suspect that those people never actually had Fenris in their party. He's got a really fleshed out personality if you listen to his party banters, and he's really only a dick to the mages. I love his conversations with Varric and Aveline. I'm not saying everyone needs to like him like I do, but no personality? Psh. Lame and untrue argument.
Though seriously, I do have to resent that Fenris's criticism is that he's a "pretty boy" and in a Western RPG. What, so Western men aren't allowed to be pretty boys? Not even when they're fantasy elves? That somehow makes them "not belong"?
Agreed with the above poster that Morrigan looked like she was from a Final Fantasy, too. I saw her and couldn't stop thinking of Lulu from Final Fantasy X. Holy crap, they're like identical twins!
But I actually like JRPGs, and as long as it's not exaggerated or completely out of place, don't see why it can't have influence in Western games.
I love Fenris. And not just because I like having gay sex with him. You don't often get badass warrior-class elves who are anti-magic. Don't understand people who think he doesn't have a personality, or only see him as "HATE MAGIC GRRR *rips out hearts*"... I suspect that those people never actually had Fenris in their party. He's got a really fleshed out personality if you listen to his party banters, and he's really only a dick to the mages. I love his conversations with Varric and Aveline. I'm not saying everyone needs to like him like I do, but no personality? Psh. Lame and untrue argument.
#197
Posté 15 juillet 2011 - 11:11
Faunwea
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Masako52 wrote...
Fenris, looks like he's from a JRPG? Yes. AND I LOVE IT.
Though seriously, I do have to resent that Fenris's criticism is that he's a "pretty boy" and in a Western RPG. What, so Western men aren't allowed to be pretty boys? Not even when they're fantasy elves? That somehow makes them "not belong"?
Agreed with the above poster that Morrigan looked like she was from a Final Fantasy, too. I saw her and couldn't stop thinking of Lulu from Final Fantasy X. Holy crap, they're like identical twins!
Wow... Thanks for pointing that out. I never connected the two, but they really do look alike. o_0
#198
Posté 15 juillet 2011 - 07:23
phyreblade74
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CrimsonZephyr wrote...
My only problem with Fenris was that the game goes out of its way to prove him right. How many times does one have to say "not all mages are like that!" only to have to slaughter a crowd of blood mages and have him pop up behind you with "MAGE R DUMB, LOL." Conversely, Anders, who is just as uncompromising, is always proven wrong. The Templars are never shown to be as one-dimensionally evil as he says they are; not as the mages are shown to be as one-dimensionally evil as Fenris claims they are.
I'd say Fenris was the Wesley of DA2.
This is perhaps the funniest commentary describing Fenris I've seen to date. "I hate him...because he's right." I mean, that's just classic in its sheer irony.
#199
Posté 15 juillet 2011 - 08:47
ManOfSteel
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He's probably my least favourite character in any BioWare game so far... so yes, I hate him.
#200
Posté 15 juillet 2011 - 10:11
CrimsonZephyr
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phyreblade74 wrote...
CrimsonZephyr wrote...
My only problem with Fenris was that the game goes out of its way to prove him right. How many times does one have to say "not all mages are like that!" only to have to slaughter a crowd of blood mages and have him pop up behind you with "MAGE R DUMB, LOL." Conversely, Anders, who is just as uncompromising, is always proven wrong. The Templars are never shown to be as one-dimensionally evil as he says they are; not as the mages are shown to be as one-dimensionally evil as Fenris claims they are.
I'd say Fenris was the Wesley of DA2.
This is perhaps the funniest commentary describing Fenris I've seen to date. "I hate him...because he's right." I mean, that's just classic in its sheer irony.
It's more of a narrative thing. The game gives no way to ever truly call him out on any of his mage hate. That means, no matter what a player feels about him, the writers like him. That's a Wesley, clear and simple.
Also, the point of the game was that no one was completely right. Not giving the player the opportunity to actually, and compellingly pull this with Fenris indicates that the writers wanted him to come out looking better than the rest. Personally, I wanted to gut every party member besides Bethany, Aveline, and Varric.
Modifié par CrimsonZephyr, 15 juillet 2011 - 10:15 .
