213 réponses à ce sujet

[Bolboreta]

Seboist wrote...

I like to imagine my femshep having a protective maternal instinct with her crew and letting her hair down and engaging in girl talk with her sisters in arms Miranda and Tali inbetween missions but this game doesn't let me do anything of the sort.

Well, I think that's kinda difficult to do. I'm a woman and I don't like my fShep to be a soft girl. She's a soldier and she's been through a lot of hard choices. I'd like the idea that BW let us choose how to roleplay our Sheps, but creating a female and a male completly different means a lot more work to the developers and the BIG possibility of not satisfying all those players that don't necessarily want a girlie Shepard. If they're going to do that, I'd prefer the neutral thing. A few gender references are ok, a whole different game wouldn't satisfy a lot of people. 

Of course, it's impossible to make everyone happy, but I think they were doing it pretty well until now. Except for the animations, there weren't lots of complaining about female Shepard, so she's not that bad. I actually like her really much.

Modifié par Bolboreta, 29 mai 2011 - 08:42 .

[Nashiktal]

Ryzaki wrote...

If more gender exclusive content means I haveto deal with more unwanted kisses/touching of my Shepard then no I don't want gender exclusive content.

That crap is annoying.

There was unprovoked kissing and touching? I don't remember that in game. (Unless its jacob, in which case I never talk to him so I am ignorant there.)

[MarchWaltz]

I think femsheps should do 10% extra damage during that time of the month.

*Engages tactical cloak*

[Ryzaki]

Nashiktal wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

If more gender exclusive content means I haveto deal with more unwanted kisses/touching of my Shepard then no I don't want gender exclusive content.

That crap is annoying.

There was unprovoked kissing and touching? I don't remember that in game. (Unless its jacob, in which case I never talk to him so I am ignorant there.)

Shiala and Parsini for a male Shepard. 

Not to mention the Consort in ME1. <_<

[Seboist]

Bolboreta wrote...

Seboist wrote...

I like to imagine my femshep having a protective maternal instinct with her crew and letting her hair down and engaging in girl talk with her sisters in arms Miranda and Tali inbetween missions but this game doesn't let me do anything of the sort.

Well, I think that's kinda difficult to do. I'm a woman and I don't like my fShep to be a soft girl. She's a soldier and she's been through a lot of hard choices. I'd like the idea that BW let us choose how to roleplay our Sheps, but creating a female and a male completly different means a lot more work to the developers and the BIG possibility of not satisfying all those players that don't necessarily want a girlie Shepard. If they're going to do that, I'd prefer the neutral thing. A few gender references are ok, a whole different game wouldn't satisfy a lot of people. 

Of course, it's impossible to make everyone happy, but I think they were doing it pretty well until now. Except for the animations, there weren't lots of complaining about female Shepard, so she's not that bad. I actually like her really much.

I don't think there should be anything major but more unique dialogue and scenarios. like femshep being curious about Quarian males in a convo with Tali or manshep trying to woo a female groupie into giving him a discount at her shop.

As it stands, Shepard might as well be a Geth with how cosmetic gender is.

[lolfanboi]

Seboist wrote...

"Gender blindness" is just a cop-out to avoid doing extra work like with their not creating the human led council or not trying to have player choices be anything but cosmetic.

Anyone that doubts that just needs to take a look at the lack of separate animations for both genders.

This guy knows.

[Dangerfoot]

MarchWaltz wrote...

I think femsheps should do 10% extra damage during that time of the month.

*Engages tactical cloak*

However this damage buff also enables friendly fire.

[wepeel_]

First of all, I don't think Patrick Weekes should be afraid of portraying differences between male and female Shepard. That women and men are equal in all respects is, let's face it, a game balance issue. Don't get me wrong, it's a useful game balance issue, and one with fine traditions leading back at least to Baldur's Gate, with males and females being statistical carbon copies.

In real life however, sex differences do exist, especially of course in terms of physical performance. With all else being equal a male boxer will beat a female boxer, a male football team will beat a female football team, a male sprinter will outrun a female sprinter, and so on, nearly 100% of the time. That isn't likely to change drastically in the future, either.

Going to the actual question with that in mind, yes, I do like to see gender differences being portrayed, and I would like more of them in Mass Effect - but there is a balance to it. As things are now, I tend to react when the game dialogue is carefully crafted to avoid all words that might designate Shepard as a male or female. I see the wording, and I think ah, well.. obviously they're doing that just so they don't have to record quite as much dialogue - but now Patrick Weekes is stating that this is intended, which I don't quite agree with.

Personally, I like when there are references to the uniqueness of my character, and the more accurate they are, the better. Comments on my sex, my class, my usual way of doing things, the weapons or armour I tend to use, my current LI, heck, even the colour of my eyes -- the more variables the game can track - and let me know that it is tracking -- the greater the immersion becomes, which I think is a good thing.

It should be noted again though, that just like with issues like sexual content, nudity and violence/gore, this needs to be balanced. If every person in the game remarks on my character's sex or uniqueness in other ways, it gets to be too much. But when every character sounds diplomatically gender-neutral and oblivious, it gets to be too little. Just like sexual content and gore, references to Shepard's character should neither be expressed just for the sake of it; nor held back when a situation actually calls for it.

Modifié par wepeel_, 29 mai 2011 - 09:22 .

[Ghost Warrior]

Dangerfoot wrote...

MarchWaltz wrote...

I think femsheps should do 10% extra damage during that time of the month.

*Engages tactical cloak*

However this damage buff also enables friendly fire.

lol

[Mr. MannlyMan]

Ryzaki wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

If more gender exclusive content means I haveto deal with more unwanted kisses/touching of my Shepard then no I don't want gender exclusive content.

That crap is annoying.

There was unprovoked kissing and touching? I don't remember that in game. (Unless its jacob, in which case I never talk to him so I am ignorant there.)

Shiala and Parsini for a male Shepard.

Not to mention the Consort in ME1. {smilie}

True. There should really have been a renegade interrupt for the kisses with Shiala and Parisini.

I can see it being pretty damn annoying when you're roleplaying a gay Shepard (hell, even a stick-up-his-buttcrack Shepard, no relation). Oh well; I like to think of those scenes as unexpected and bewildering to my gayShep. "Did... did she just... :blink:"

Modifié par Mr. MannlyMan, 29 mai 2011 - 09:29 .

[wepeel_]

Ryzaki wrote...

If more gender exclusive content means I haveto deal with more unwanted kisses/touching of my Shepard then no I don't want gender exclusive content.

That crap is annoying.

Actually I liked those moments and would like to see more of them. They brought a lot more feeling and personal touch to those scenes than a generic "thank you so much for everything you've done for me/us" line.

[Ryzaki]

wepeel_ wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

If more gender exclusive content means I haveto deal with more unwanted kisses/touching of my Shepard then no I don't want gender exclusive content.

That crap is annoying.

Actually I liked those moments and would like to see more of them. They brought a lot more feeling and personal touch to those scenes than a generic "thank you so much for everything you've done for me/us" line.

Then at the least they should be optional. I don't let people casually touch me when I don't really know them. 

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

True. There should really have been a renegade interrupt for the kisses with Shiala and Parisini.

I can see it being pretty damn annoying when you're roleplaying a gay Shepard (hell, even a stick-up-his-buttcrack Shepard, no relation). Oh well; I like to think of those scenes as unexpected and bewildering to my gayShep. "Did... did she just... :blink:"

 

Not to mention the consort. 

LOL 

Even my straight Sheps don't want them touching them. Just because he saved their life doesn't mean he's attracted to them. Its even worse when your LI is standing right there. And says NOTHING. 

[Inquisitor Recon]

Shepard's a gentleman, he lets a woman kiss him on the cheek if she wants. Even renegade Shepard knows how to keep it classy.

The consort thing, well people should have seen that coming.

[wepeel_]

Well, not like the consort thing is hard to not have happen, just don't pick that dialogue choice.

[Ryzaki]

wepeel_ wrote...


Well, not like the consort thing is hard to not have happen, just don't pick that dialogue choice.

 

It's not the sex. 

It's the whole hug, touching cheek thing. 

The sex is easy enough to avoid once you know its coming. 

I just want grinning like an idiot to be optional. I'm not gonna smile at someone who touches me just because they're attractive. I like my personal space. Violating my personal space is not gonna please me. 

Doing that with my LI standing right there is even worse. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 mai 2011 - 09:59 .

[ReallyRue]

I don't think gender-blindness is entirely necessary to avoid stereotyping (like sterotyping that femShep is empathic/maternal and maleShep is aggressive/detached). But if they have other characters behave that way and give Shep the opportunity to refute it, I think it's good. Like if one of the crew teased femShep about that dress, she could either comment that she likes it, that she hates wearing dresses, or something neutral. Or scenes like the one with Harkin, that guy in the renegades-only mission in ME1, or the batarian recruiter in ME2. Considering men and women *are* treated differently (especially based on the sex of the one addressing them) it would make sense to have some slightly different reactions.

Having said all that, I don't actually mind all that much. I'd be *more* bothered if a game tried to make my character all maternal and girly or whatever.

[ReallyRue]

Ryzaki wrote...

wepeel_ wrote...


Well, not like the consort thing is hard to not have happen, just don't pick that dialogue choice.

 

It's not the sex. 

It's the whole hug, touching cheek thing. 

The sex is easy enough to avoid once you know its coming. 

I just want grinning like an idiot to be optional. I'm not gonna smile at someone who touches me just because they're attractive. I like my personal space. Violating my personal space is not gonna please me. 

Doing that with my LI standing right there is even worse. 

So true. I could not at all understand why my renegades would be be happy to have people touching them for no reason. Especially the consort. I was just sat there thinking 'wtf, why don't you push her away and say "get the hell off me" ?' But that extends to all involuntary stuff really. Like hugging Liara. One of my Sheps was awful to her. Two of them didn't recruit her until just before Ilos and therefore had no interaction with her. The others were friends with her. Yet they all hug her when they meet again. Well, except the Sheps who romance her, those ones just kiss her face off.

[wepeel_]

Ryzaki wrote...

It's not the sex. 

It's the whole hug, touching cheek thing. 

The sex is easy enough to avoid once you know its coming. 

I just want grinning like an idiot to be optional. I'm not gonna smile at someone who touches me just because they're attractive. I like my personal space. Violating my personal space is not gonna please me. 

Doing that with my LI standing right there is even worse. 

Aye, fair enough of course. I wouldn't mind there being interrupts for it or something along those lines, as long as stuff like that isn't removed to make sure all responses are of a gender-neutral kind no one can take offense to.

Modifié par wepeel_, 29 mai 2011 - 10:05 .

[mav76]

wepeel_ wrote...
Personally, I like when there are references to the uniqueness of my character, and the more accurate they are, the better. Comments on my sex, my class, my usual way of doing things, the weapons or armour I tend to use, my current LI, heck, even the colour of my eyes -- the more variables the game can track - and let me know that it is tracking -- the greater the immersion becomes, which I think is a good thing.

It should be noted again though, that just like with issues like sexual content, nudity and violence/gore, this needs to be balanced. If every person in the game remarks on my character's sex or uniqueness in other ways, it gets to be too much. But when every character sounds diplomatically gender-neutral and oblivious, it gets to be too little. Just like sexual content and gore, references to Shepard's character should neither be expressed just for the sake of it; nor held back when a situation actually calls for it.

I would like to see them use male/female pronouns a bit more.  Sometimes the dialogue goes so far to avoid using one that it draws attention to the lack of them.

I would also like the game to use other character attributes as well.  I lol'ed the first time the quarantine guard on Omega said "You don't have a grenade launcher on your back, lady".  When he said the same thing when I had the Missile Launcher or Firestorm equipped, it was a bit silly.  It would have been nice to have the actor record an extra line for each heavy weapon, just in case.  They could even record "You're not wearing battle armor, lady" to cover any new DLC heavy weapons that aren't known yet.

I actually didn't like the Merc recruiter on Omega for FemShep.  Perhaps it was supposed to come off as more of an insult towards a female soldier, but the way the line came out it seemed like the recruiter just didn't recognize FemShep as a potential merc recruit--which is silly given how well armed and amored she (and her companions) are.

[Ghost Warrior]

@Ryzaki - sorry to be rude,but it's just a kiss.Develop some social skills.

[AlanC9]

Ryzaki wrote...
I just want grinning like an idiot to be optional. I'm not gonna smile at someone who touches me just because they're attractive. I like my personal space. Violating my personal space is not gonna please me. 

Doing that with my LI standing right there is even worse. 

Well, there are two issues there. The LI not reacting is one thing; easily scripted if you put the time into it. But how would you handle Shepard's reaction in real time? I don't see a good way to do it without freezing the action to allow something like an interrupt choice. 

[JamieCOTC]

mav76 wrote...

wepeel_ wrote...
Personally, I like when there are references to the uniqueness of my character, and the more accurate they are, the better. Comments on my sex, my class, my usual way of doing things, the weapons or armour I tend to use, my current LI, heck, even the colour of my eyes -- the more variables the game can track - and let me know that it is tracking -- the greater the immersion becomes, which I think is a good thing.

It should be noted again though, that just like with issues like sexual content, nudity and violence/gore, this needs to be balanced. If every person in the game remarks on my character's sex or uniqueness in other ways, it gets to be too much. But when every character sounds diplomatically gender-neutral and oblivious, it gets to be too little. Just like sexual content and gore, references to Shepard's character should neither be expressed just for the sake of it; nor held back when a situation actually calls for it.

I would like to see them use male/female pronouns a bit more.  Sometimes the dialogue goes so far to avoid using one that it draws attention to the lack of them.

I would also like the game to use other character attributes as well.  I lol'ed the first time the quarantine guard on Omega said "You don't have a grenade launcher on your back, lady".  When he said the same thing when I had the Missile Launcher or Firestorm equipped, it was a bit silly.  It would have been nice to have the actor record an extra line for each heavy weapon, just in case.  They could even record "You're not wearing battle armor, lady" to cover any new DLC heavy weapons that aren't known yet.

I actually didn't like the Merc recruiter on Omega for FemShep.  Perhaps it was supposed to come off as more of an insult towards a female soldier, but the way the line came out it seemed like the recruiter just didn't recognize FemShep as a potential merc recruit--which is silly given how well armed and amored she (and her companions) are.

IIRC, if you DON'T press the renegade interrupt he makes it fairly clear that he was just joking. 

[Clonedzero]

honestly im not a big fan of gender blindess, it makes things generic and bland. if being male or female has no real effect on the game then the choice is pointless.

[Ryzaki]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

@Ryzaki - sorry to be rude,but it's just a kiss.Develop some social skills.

That's hilarious coming from you. 

And it has zero to do with social skills and everything to do with consistent characterization. 

AlanC9 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
I just want grinning like an idiot to be optional. I'm not gonna smile at someone who touches me just because they're attractive. I like my personal space. Violating my personal space is not gonna please me. 

Doing that with my LI standing right there is even worse. 

Well, there are two issues there. The LI not reacting is one thing; easily scripted if you put the time into it. But how would you handle Shepard's reaction in real time? I don't see a good way to do it without freezing the action to allow something like an interrupt choice. 

 

Actually an interrupt would be fine. Or even just have a dialogue choice ahead of time. If you're flirtaous then they kiss you. If your business like they don't. 

ReallyRue wrote...
So true. I could not at all understand why my renegades would be be happy to have people touching them for no reason. Especially the consort. I was just sat there thinking 'wtf, why don't you push her away and say "get the hell off me" ?' But that extends to all involuntary stuff really. Like hugging Liara. One of my Sheps was awful to her. Two of them didn't recruit her until just before Ilos and therefore had no interaction with her. The others were friends with her. Yet they all hug her when they meet again. Well, except the Sheps who romance her, those ones just kiss her face off.

 

Aye. Liara only gets a pass because Shepard at least knows her well. The others...you met them like once and then they start acting like Shep and them are best buds.  

Again I have no problem with them touching Shepard. I have a problem with my Shepard's reaction to the touching. It's a removal of player control where there doesn't need to be any. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 mai 2011 - 10:33 .